Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:45 AM - Re: strange sputtering (Dana Hague)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: strange sputtering (lucien)
3. 07:43 AM - Re: strange sputtering (zeprep251@aol.com)
4. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (b young)
5. 09:30 AM - mildew on fabric (cristalclear13)
6. 09:35 AM - Re: mildew on fabric (JetPilot)
7. 09:43 AM - Re: strange sputtering (JetPilot)
8. 09:44 AM - First Annual Allison Birthday Fly In (EmailUser greg)
9. 09:51 AM - Re: strange sputtering (Thom Riddle)
10. 10:25 AM - Covering system (Richard Girard)
11. 11:19 AM - Re: mildew on fabric (robert bean)
12. 11:55 AM - Re: mildew on fabric (loseyf@comcast.net)
13. 12:34 PM - Re: Covering system (JetPilot)
14. 02:39 PM - Re: mildew on fabric (Dana Hague)
15. 02:39 PM - Re: mildew on fabric (Dana Hague)
16. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (b young)
17. 06:34 PM - Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (lucien)
18. 07:15 PM - Re: strange sputtering (dalewhelan)
19. 09:28 PM - Re: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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Subject: | strange sputtering |
At 11:25 PM 6/2/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
> > My carbs were sweating the front one more than the back. That isn't
> unusual in the hot >weather we have though.> --------
>
> Sounds as though you experienced the classic symptoms of "carb icing",
> although from your description of the carb's sweating, you may have only
> developed condensation, not icing.
I spent some time chasing carb icing when the engine was reluctant to
increase from cruise to full throttle and was covered with condensation
when I landed. Turned out, though, it was not icing but simply running too
rich for the very hot humid day that it was... dropping the needle one
notch solved the problem.
> I'm not sure what you could do to minimize this tendency. Has anyone
> come up with a carb heat mechanism for Bing carbs??
Somebody does make an electric carb heater for the Bings. It's a spacer
block that goes between the carb and the manifold. Since it heats the carb
body and not the air, you leave it turned on all the time without affecting
performance.
-Dana
--
Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely.
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Subject: | Re: strange sputtering |
cristalclear13 wrote:
> Decided to take my dad, who is visiting me, on a little cross country in my Kolb
Mark II to Douglas, GA. I wanted to show him the WWII museum there but found
out they are only open on Fridays and Saturdays once we got there.
>
> We had had some fog in the morning but it burned off around 10:30am and so we
headed out. When we got to Douglas and landed, I was about to turn the plane
around and exit on the taxiway I just passed but when I started to turn and gave
it a little more on the throttle it kind of sputtered and wouldn't rev up.
I pulled it back and tried it again and it went fine. Then when I was parking
her it did it again.
>
> My carbs were sweating the front one more than the back. That isn't unusual
in the hot weather we have though. On the front carb where the rubber socket
is the carb had some black stuff along the edge where it fits into the socket
(whereas my back carb was nice and clean in that area). I grabbed my screwdriver
and tightened the clamp around the socket. It may have been a little loose.
Perhaps it was sucking air?
>
> We ate lunch, considered our options and then decided to start it up, if no problems
then take off and go around the airport a bit. We didn't have any more
problems so we headed home and didn't have any more symptoms of the sort. The
afternoon thermals sure gave us an interesting ride home. I think I'm getting
more used to it. I think I had my best landing yet with a full-size passenger
when Dad and I got back to Waycross. :D
>
> Side note to George Alexander: Got your message...thanks.
Yet another reason I finally made my escape from the Gulf Coast to a place with
cleaner air..........
It was rare for me when I lived in TX to land _without_ the carburettor bodies
simply soaked with condensation, enough for it to be literally dripping down onto
the float bowls on the outside. It became more or less SOP for me to drop
the bowls after the motor had cooled down to check for water collecting in the
bottom. From time to time there was a small bead of it in there.
High humidity also acts to increase the effective density altitude since water
vapour is less dense than air so, as Dana said, everything will go rich in those
conditions.
If you're already rich at idle, it'll be aggravated pretty good as the humidity
rises.
You might also make sure your idle jets are clear. Those are the first parts to
plug up on the 2-stroke bings, especially if you're running premix. Being unable
to get a lean enough idle is the typical symptom of this. You even see this
from time to time on the 912 bings, as one of our locals found out on his 912ULS
here a few weeks ago.....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246586#246586
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Subject: | Re: strange sputtering |
Cristal,
???? When you evaporate fuel at the discharge nozzle,it is possible to get a temperature
drop of 30 degrees or more,and under high humidity conditions have some
ice form on the inside of the carb body affecting fuel discharge at low speed.It,s
less likely with the Bing 54 than on the 64CV Bings on the 912,s and
Jabiru's because they also have a throttle plate downwind of the discharge nozzle
which ice forms on readily.On my 64CV I use an electrically powered heater
unit that mounts with 2 screws to the boss at the throttle shaft and it heats
the shaft area of the carb body effectively. Got it from the Jabiru dealer.I
doubt if you will have enough trouble with icing to warrant that much effort.Just
watch for those days of high humidity and temps when a 30 degree drop could
put you in that freezing range, and make your throttle movements carefully.
? ? ? ?? G.Aman MK3C 2200Jabiru?
-----Original Message-----
From: cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:36 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: strange sputtering
Decided to take my dad, who is visiting me, on a little cross country in my Kolb
Mark II to Douglas, GA. I wanted to show him the WWII museum there but found
out they are only open on Fridays and Saturdays once we got there.
We had had some fog in the morning but it burned off around 10:30am and so we
headed out. When we got to Douglas and landed, I was about to turn the plane
around and exit on the taxiway I just passed but when I started to turn and gave
it a little more on the throttle it kind of sputtered and wouldn't rev up. I
pulled it back and tried it again and it went fine. Then when I was parking her
it did it again.
My carbs were sweating the front one more than the back. That isn't unusual in
the hot weather we have though. On the front carb where the rubber socket is
the carb had some black stuff along the edge where it fits into the socket
(whereas my back carb was nice and clean in that area). I grabbed my
screwdriver and tightened the clamp around the socket. It may have been a
little loose. Perhaps it was sucking air?
We ate lunch, considered our options and then decided to start it up, if no
problems then take off and go around the airport a bit. We didn't have any more
problems so we headed home and didn't have any more symptoms of the sort. The
afternoon thermals sure gave us an interesting ride home. I think I'm getting
more used to it. I think I had my best landing yet with a full-size passenger
when Dad and I got back to Waycross. :D
Side note to George Alexander: Got your message...thanks.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246552#246552
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Subject: | Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. |
> Hi Russ,
> I hope i'am not asking a dumb question here,but I need some
> advice.My engine's peak Hp is at 6500 rpm,I climb out at 700-800
> fpm,and cruse at 65-70 mph.If I increase the pitch of my 3-blade
> prop, will I increase my cruse or climb rate?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brad
Lets think out loud here.
With a plane with a constant speed prop they always set to a fine pitch for
takeoff allowing max rpm. This equals max take off performance, climb
rate.
When the same plane gets up to speed they increase the pitch, reducing the
rpm. This gives them a little faster cruse. It allows the prop to use up
the HP with out over reving.
This becomes a larger factor when the aircraft speed is above 130 - 150 or
so.
In your case, if you climb at 6500 at wot,,, then at straight and level you
will be over reving. So you have to pull the power back. If you increase
the pitch you will climb at (lets say for example) 6250 rpm.. at that rpm
your engine is not putting out the full rated hp.(slower climb) But in
straight and level flight you will pull 6500 and put the full hp to the
prop. Thus going faster, because you have not had to pull the power back.
Boyd Young
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Subject: | mildew on fabric |
I have found another "bonus" (not) of living in this area of high humidity. I
am seeing quite a bit of black mildew now on the inside of my plane. What will
safely clean that off the fabric?
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246616#246616
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Subject: | Re: mildew on fabric |
Flying more often will prevent it [Wink]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246618#246618
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Subject: | Re: strange sputtering |
I don't think Carb icing is a possibility in Crystal's case. The outside temp
was probably 85 degrees or maybe even hotter. Even with a 30 degree temperature
drop in the carburetor, that is not even close to forming ice. There is a
lot of humidity, and the carbs will sweat due to them being much cooler than
the surrounding air flowing over them, but it ice just is not going to form in
a carburetor on an 85 degree day.
Better not to get distracted with something that was not the problem, and look
for the real culprit to the rough running engine.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246620#246620
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Subject: | First Annual Allison Birthday Fly In |
Your invited to my first annual fun fly weedend. Located at ace airfield in
Farnham VA. Camping under the wing fun with food music and great fun with
other pilots like yourselves. The fun starts on July 25,26 Anyone that would
like to come early you can fly in on the 24th. i will be around all day. My
Airfield is located GPS 76*36.071w and 37*56.500n close to the bay.
My runway is on north south orientation. It is a 2000 ft grass strip with a
line of trees on the west side of the field. Please use trafic pattern over
these trees on the west. I will be using communication ch 12300 to help if
needed. If you choose to drive an rv or a car to fun fly use kings ln
Farnham in your GPS it will bring you here. Any questions please call me
804-450-6200 my name is Greg Allison.
There will be drinks and food available for everyone. horse shoe,bola ball
and music sat night.I look forward to seeing you all there.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: strange sputtering |
Carb ice can form at 85F OAT in high humidity. See graph at following link.
http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246625#246625
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While I'm removing corrosion and getting ready to alodine the Firestar wings
I went looking for fabric covering info on the web and found Stewart Systems
series of videos on You Tube. Since I'm always looking for stuff for our EAA
chapter's newsletter I put all the links into a Punisher document and then
made the attached PDF.Disclaimer: I've never used their products, they are
very pricey, and I have no commercial interest or emotional investment in
them. I'm sending it only because I found it interesting.
If nothing else it'll give time to bury the dead horse about props that's
been beaten, well, to death. Of course you haven't covered gear box ratios,
fancy tips like the Prince, or ducts, so there's hope for the deceased
trotter, yet. :-)
Rick
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: mildew on fabric |
From what I have read, a solution of baking soda and water sprayed
on lightly will inhibit fungus and mold.
-Haven't tried myself though.
BB
On 3, Jun 2009, at 12:29 PM, cristalclear13 wrote:
> <cristalclearwaters@gmail.com>
>
> I have found another "bonus" (not) of living in this area of high
> humidity. I am seeing quite a bit of black mildew now on the
> inside of my plane. What will safely clean that off the fabric?
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246616#246616
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: mildew on fabric |
While covering is the topic, has anyone had any experience with Oratex UL600?
This product requires no secondary processes.....
Loseyf@comcast.net
------Original Message------
From: robert bean
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Jun 3, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric
From what I have read, a solution of baking soda and water sprayed
on lightly will inhibit fungus and mold.
-Haven't tried myself though.
BB
On 3, Jun 2009, at 12:29 PM, cristalclear13 wrote:
> <cristalclearwaters@gmail.com>
>
> I have found another "bonus" (not) of living in this area of high
> humidity. I am seeing quite a bit of black mildew now on the
> inside of my plane. What will safely clean that off the fabric?
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246616#246616
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Covering system |
As I have said before, anything labeled " Eco " usually means does not work very
well. Cleaners, paints, you name it, when they come up with the " Eco Friendly
" version, it is usually not as strong and not as good as the non eco friendly
stuff...
Seems that labeling a product " ECO " is a good way of selling a substandard product
that would never sell on its own merits. Even if this eko friendly system
was cheap, I sure as heck would not want my airplane to be the test case for
this.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246663#246663
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Subject: | Re: mildew on fabric |
At 02:40 PM 6/3/2009, loseyf@comcast.net wrote:
>
>While covering is the topic, has anyone had any experience with Oratex
>UL600? This product requires no secondary processes.....
There was a big discussion about Oratex on the homebuiltairplanes.com
forums not long ago. It's rather expensive, and the one guy who got some
samples said it has an unattractive (to him) dull finish. They're
apparently still developing the product line, but at the present it sounds
like one of those prodcts that's "not quite there yet".
-Dana
--
When Columbus came to America, there were no taxes, no debts, and no
pollution. The women did all the work while the men hunted or fished all
day. Ever since then, a bunch of idiotic do-gooders have been trying to
"improve" the place.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: mildew on fabric |
At 02:40 PM 6/3/2009, loseyf@comcast.net wrote:
>
>While covering is the topic, has anyone had any experience with Oratex
>UL600? This product requires no secondary processes.....
There was a big discussion about Oratex on the homebuiltairplanes.com
forums not long ago. It's rather expensive, and the one guy who got some
samples said it has an unattractive (to him) dull finish. They're
apparently still developing the product line, but at the present it sounds
like one of those prodcts that's "not quite there yet".
-Dana
--
When Columbus came to America, there were no taxes, no debts, and no
pollution. The women did all the work while the men hunted or fished all
day. Ever since then, a bunch of idiotic do-gooders have been trying to
"improve" the place.
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. |
For aircraft like ours, I agree that there wouldn't be much if any
measurable advantage to a one blade prop, and the associated problems would
outweigh any slight advantages. However, they have been used to advantage
on some model airplanes... control line "speed" ships that can do 200mph,
with engines turning around 30,000 rpm. With such tiny props turning so
fast, the blades ARE close enough together that going to one blade helps.
-Dana
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Dana
For a 1 blade to do its job effectively I would think that it should be
installed on a slick go fast plane. The cruise would be in keeping with the
large pitch angle needed to use up the HP. And less of the HP being used up
as parasitic drag. To put it on a slow aircraft the prop would use up the
hp but be stalled, therefore not creating the thrust that it could do on a
faster craft.
And as for the 1 blade design being the most efficient,, I should have
clarified it by saying in cruise, and in a tractor configuration, where it
is not slapping the large pitch against the disturbed air,, climb would
probably not be as good even with the pitch reducing coning angle.
Boyd Young
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Subject: | Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. |
[quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"]
> Hi Russ,
> I hope i'am not asking a dumb question here,but I need some
> advice.My engine's peak Hp is at 6500 rpm,I climb out at 700-800
> fpm,and cruse at 65-70 mph.If I increase the pitch of my 3-blade
> prop, will I increase my cruse or climb rate?
>
>
That sounds about like the envelope of my old FSII. Mine had the 503 with 3.47:1
C box and 68" WD 3-blade taper tip. I'd say thats about the best combo you can
get on the FSII, tho admittedly I only had one other FSII in my area to actually
compare to. He had the 2.58 B box and a 2 blade woody, I could outclimb
him just a little bit, tho he seemed to have a little higher top end than my best
climb pitch setting.
For a while I ran about 6400 on climbout on mine but it would easily get to redline
in level flight. The rule of thumb of bumping just up to redline at WOT straight
and level will give the best compromise. With the prop set that way on
my FSII that gave me about 6200 on climbout which was still plenty good climb
and gave a comfortable 65mph cruise at about 5300. Just under 3 gph.
I sure kinda miss that plane.... don't know if I ever mentioned that....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246717#246717
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Subject: | Re: strange sputtering |
One person posted that it was possible the pilot jet was plugged. I think he meant
to say this would cause a lean condition, as plugging up a fuel jet reduces
fuel delivery. When they are lean throttle response is poor, just like when
the motor is too cold.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246724#246724
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Subject: | Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. |
http://www.ultraligero.net/Cursos/varios/helice_de_una_pala.pdf
<http://www.ultraligero.net/Cursos/varios/helice_de_una_pala.pdf>Rick
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM, b young <by0ung@brigham.net> wrote:
>
>
> For aircraft like ours, I agree that there wouldn't be much if any
> measurable advantage to a one blade prop, and the associated problems would
> outweigh any slight advantages. However, they have been used to advantage
> on some model airplanes... control line "speed" ships that can do 200mph,
> with engines turning around 30,000 rpm. With such tiny props turning so
> fast, the blades ARE close enough together that going to one blade helps.
>
> -Dana
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>
> Dana
>
> For a 1 blade to do its job effectively I would think that it should be
> installed on a slick go fast plane. The cruise would be in keeping with
> the
> large pitch angle needed to use up the HP. And less of the HP being used up
> as parasitic drag. To put it on a slow aircraft the prop would use up the
> hp but be stalled, therefore not creating the thrust that it could do on a
> faster craft.
>
> And as for the 1 blade design being the most efficient,, I should have
> clarified it by saying in cruise, and in a tractor configuration, where it
> is not slapping the large pitch against the disturbed air,, climb would
> probably not be as good even with the pitch reducing coning angle.
>
> Boyd Young
>
>
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