---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/03/09: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:45 AM - Re: strange sputtering (Dana Hague) 2. 06:16 AM - Re: strange sputtering (lucien) 3. 07:43 AM - Re: strange sputtering (zeprep251@aol.com) 4. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (b young) 5. 09:30 AM - mildew on fabric (cristalclear13) 6. 09:35 AM - Re: mildew on fabric (JetPilot) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: strange sputtering (JetPilot) 8. 09:44 AM - First Annual Allison Birthday Fly In (EmailUser greg) 9. 09:51 AM - Re: strange sputtering (Thom Riddle) 10. 10:25 AM - Covering system (Richard Girard) 11. 11:19 AM - Re: mildew on fabric (robert bean) 12. 11:55 AM - Re: mildew on fabric (loseyf@comcast.net) 13. 12:34 PM - Re: Covering system (JetPilot) 14. 02:39 PM - Re: mildew on fabric (Dana Hague) 15. 02:39 PM - Re: mildew on fabric (Dana Hague) 16. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (b young) 17. 06:34 PM - Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (lucien) 18. 07:15 PM - Re: strange sputtering (dalewhelan) 19. 09:28 PM - Re: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:05 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: strange sputtering At 11:25 PM 6/2/2009, Mike Welch wrote: > > My carbs were sweating the front one more than the back. That isn't > unusual in the hot >weather we have though.> -------- > > Sounds as though you experienced the classic symptoms of "carb icing", > although from your description of the carb's sweating, you may have only > developed condensation, not icing. I spent some time chasing carb icing when the engine was reluctant to increase from cruise to full throttle and was covered with condensation when I landed. Turned out, though, it was not icing but simply running too rich for the very hot humid day that it was... dropping the needle one notch solved the problem. > I'm not sure what you could do to minimize this tendency. Has anyone > come up with a carb heat mechanism for Bing carbs?? Somebody does make an electric carb heater for the Bings. It's a spacer block that goes between the carb and the manifold. Since it heats the carb body and not the air, you leave it turned on all the time without affecting performance. -Dana -- Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: strange sputtering From: "lucien" cristalclear13 wrote: > Decided to take my dad, who is visiting me, on a little cross country in my Kolb Mark II to Douglas, GA. I wanted to show him the WWII museum there but found out they are only open on Fridays and Saturdays once we got there. > > We had had some fog in the morning but it burned off around 10:30am and so we headed out. When we got to Douglas and landed, I was about to turn the plane around and exit on the taxiway I just passed but when I started to turn and gave it a little more on the throttle it kind of sputtered and wouldn't rev up. I pulled it back and tried it again and it went fine. Then when I was parking her it did it again. > > My carbs were sweating the front one more than the back. That isn't unusual in the hot weather we have though. On the front carb where the rubber socket is the carb had some black stuff along the edge where it fits into the socket (whereas my back carb was nice and clean in that area). I grabbed my screwdriver and tightened the clamp around the socket. It may have been a little loose. Perhaps it was sucking air? > > We ate lunch, considered our options and then decided to start it up, if no problems then take off and go around the airport a bit. We didn't have any more problems so we headed home and didn't have any more symptoms of the sort. The afternoon thermals sure gave us an interesting ride home. I think I'm getting more used to it. I think I had my best landing yet with a full-size passenger when Dad and I got back to Waycross. :D > > Side note to George Alexander: Got your message...thanks. Yet another reason I finally made my escape from the Gulf Coast to a place with cleaner air.......... It was rare for me when I lived in TX to land _without_ the carburettor bodies simply soaked with condensation, enough for it to be literally dripping down onto the float bowls on the outside. It became more or less SOP for me to drop the bowls after the motor had cooled down to check for water collecting in the bottom. From time to time there was a small bead of it in there. High humidity also acts to increase the effective density altitude since water vapour is less dense than air so, as Dana said, everything will go rich in those conditions. If you're already rich at idle, it'll be aggravated pretty good as the humidity rises. You might also make sure your idle jets are clear. Those are the first parts to plug up on the 2-stroke bings, especially if you're running premix. Being unable to get a lean enough idle is the typical symptom of this. You even see this from time to time on the 912 bings, as one of our locals found out on his 912ULS here a few weeks ago..... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246586#246586 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: strange sputtering From: zeprep251@aol.com Cristal, ???? When you evaporate fuel at the discharge nozzle,it is possible to get a temperature drop of 30 degrees or more,and under high humidity conditions have some ice form on the inside of the carb body affecting fuel discharge at low speed.It,s less likely with the Bing 54 than on the 64CV Bings on the 912,s and Jabiru's because they also have a throttle plate downwind of the discharge nozzle which ice forms on readily.On my 64CV I use an electrically powered heater unit that mounts with 2 screws to the boss at the throttle shaft and it heats the shaft area of the carb body effectively. Got it from the Jabiru dealer.I doubt if you will have enough trouble with icing to warrant that much effort.Just watch for those days of high humidity and temps when a 30 degree drop could put you in that freezing range, and make your throttle movements carefully. ? ? ? ?? G.Aman MK3C 2200Jabiru? -----Original Message----- From: cristalclear13 Sent: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:36 pm Subject: Kolb-List: strange sputtering Decided to take my dad, who is visiting me, on a little cross country in my Kolb Mark II to Douglas, GA. I wanted to show him the WWII museum there but found out they are only open on Fridays and Saturdays once we got there. We had had some fog in the morning but it burned off around 10:30am and so we headed out. When we got to Douglas and landed, I was about to turn the plane around and exit on the taxiway I just passed but when I started to turn and gave it a little more on the throttle it kind of sputtered and wouldn't rev up. I pulled it back and tried it again and it went fine. Then when I was parking her it did it again. My carbs were sweating the front one more than the back. That isn't unusual in the hot weather we have though. On the front carb where the rubber socket is the carb had some black stuff along the edge where it fits into the socket (whereas my back carb was nice and clean in that area). I grabbed my screwdriver and tightened the clamp around the socket. It may have been a little loose. Perhaps it was sucking air? We ate lunch, considered our options and then decided to start it up, if no problems then take off and go around the airport a bit. We didn't have any more problems so we headed home and didn't have any more symptoms of the sort. The afternoon thermals sure gave us an interesting ride home. I think I'm getting more used to it. I think I had my best landing yet with a full-size passenger when Dad and I got back to Waycross. :D Side note to George Alexander: Got your message...thanks. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246552#246552 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:09 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. > Hi Russ, > I hope i'am not asking a dumb question here,but I need some > advice.My engine's peak Hp is at 6500 rpm,I climb out at 700-800 > fpm,and cruse at 65-70 mph.If I increase the pitch of my 3-blade > prop, will I increase my cruse or climb rate? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Lets think out loud here. With a plane with a constant speed prop they always set to a fine pitch for takeoff allowing max rpm. This equals max take off performance, climb rate. When the same plane gets up to speed they increase the pitch, reducing the rpm. This gives them a little faster cruse. It allows the prop to use up the HP with out over reving. This becomes a larger factor when the aircraft speed is above 130 - 150 or so. In your case, if you climb at 6500 at wot,,, then at straight and level you will be over reving. So you have to pull the power back. If you increase the pitch you will climb at (lets say for example) 6250 rpm.. at that rpm your engine is not putting out the full rated hp.(slower climb) But in straight and level flight you will pull 6500 and put the full hp to the prop. Thus going faster, because you have not had to pull the power back. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric From: "cristalclear13" I have found another "bonus" (not) of living in this area of high humidity. I am seeing quite a bit of black mildew now on the inside of my plane. What will safely clean that off the fabric? -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246616#246616 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:31 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: mildew on fabric From: "JetPilot" Flying more often will prevent it [Wink] Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246618#246618 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: strange sputtering From: "JetPilot" I don't think Carb icing is a possibility in Crystal's case. The outside temp was probably 85 degrees or maybe even hotter. Even with a 30 degree temperature drop in the carburetor, that is not even close to forming ice. There is a lot of humidity, and the carbs will sweat due to them being much cooler than the surrounding air flowing over them, but it ice just is not going to form in a carburetor on an 85 degree day. Better not to get distracted with something that was not the problem, and look for the real culprit to the rough running engine. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246620#246620 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: First Annual Allison Birthday Fly In From: EmailUser greg Your invited to my first annual fun fly weedend. Located at ace airfield in Farnham VA. Camping under the wing fun with food music and great fun with other pilots like yourselves. The fun starts on July 25,26 Anyone that would like to come early you can fly in on the 24th. i will be around all day. My Airfield is located GPS 76*36.071w and 37*56.500n close to the bay. My runway is on north south orientation. It is a 2000 ft grass strip with a line of trees on the west side of the field. Please use trafic pattern over these trees on the west. I will be using communication ch 12300 to help if needed. If you choose to drive an rv or a car to fun fly use kings ln Farnham in your GPS it will bring you here. Any questions please call me 804-450-6200 my name is Greg Allison. There will be drinks and food available for everyone. horse shoe,bola ball and music sat night.I look forward to seeing you all there. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:31 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: strange sputtering From: "Thom Riddle" Carb ice can form at 85F OAT in high humidity. See graph at following link. http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246625#246625 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Covering system From: Richard Girard While I'm removing corrosion and getting ready to alodine the Firestar wings I went looking for fabric covering info on the web and found Stewart Systems series of videos on You Tube. Since I'm always looking for stuff for our EAA chapter's newsletter I put all the links into a Punisher document and then made the attached PDF.Disclaimer: I've never used their products, they are very pricey, and I have no commercial interest or emotional investment in them. I'm sending it only because I found it interesting. If nothing else it'll give time to bury the dead horse about props that's been beaten, well, to death. Of course you haven't covered gear box ratios, fancy tips like the Prince, or ducts, so there's hope for the deceased trotter, yet. :-) Rick do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:01 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric From what I have read, a solution of baking soda and water sprayed on lightly will inhibit fungus and mold. -Haven't tried myself though. BB On 3, Jun 2009, at 12:29 PM, cristalclear13 wrote: > > > I have found another "bonus" (not) of living in this area of high > humidity. I am seeing quite a bit of black mildew now on the > inside of my plane. What will safely clean that off the fabric? > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Kolb Mark II Twinstar > Rotax 503 DCSI > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246616#246616 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric From: loseyf@comcast.net While covering is the topic, has anyone had any experience with Oratex UL600? This product requires no secondary processes..... Loseyf@comcast.net ------Original Message------ From: robert bean Sender: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Jun 3, 2009 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric From what I have read, a solution of baking soda and water sprayed on lightly will inhibit fungus and mold. -Haven't tried myself though. BB On 3, Jun 2009, at 12:29 PM, cristalclear13 wrote: > > > I have found another "bonus" (not) of living in this area of high > humidity. I am seeing quite a bit of black mildew now on the > inside of my plane. What will safely clean that off the fabric? > > -------- > Cristal Waters > Kolb Mark II Twinstar > Rotax 503 DCSI > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246616#246616 > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:52 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Covering system From: "JetPilot" As I have said before, anything labeled " Eco " usually means does not work very well. Cleaners, paints, you name it, when they come up with the " Eco Friendly " version, it is usually not as strong and not as good as the non eco friendly stuff... Seems that labeling a product " ECO " is a good way of selling a substandard product that would never sell on its own merits. Even if this eko friendly system was cheap, I sure as heck would not want my airplane to be the test case for this. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246663#246663 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:13 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric At 02:40 PM 6/3/2009, loseyf@comcast.net wrote: > >While covering is the topic, has anyone had any experience with Oratex >UL600? This product requires no secondary processes..... There was a big discussion about Oratex on the homebuiltairplanes.com forums not long ago. It's rather expensive, and the one guy who got some samples said it has an unattractive (to him) dull finish. They're apparently still developing the product line, but at the present it sounds like one of those prodcts that's "not quite there yet". -Dana -- When Columbus came to America, there were no taxes, no debts, and no pollution. The women did all the work while the men hunted or fished all day. Ever since then, a bunch of idiotic do-gooders have been trying to "improve" the place. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:13 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: mildew on fabric At 02:40 PM 6/3/2009, loseyf@comcast.net wrote: > >While covering is the topic, has anyone had any experience with Oratex >UL600? This product requires no secondary processes..... There was a big discussion about Oratex on the homebuiltairplanes.com forums not long ago. It's rather expensive, and the one guy who got some samples said it has an unattractive (to him) dull finish. They're apparently still developing the product line, but at the present it sounds like one of those prodcts that's "not quite there yet". -Dana -- When Columbus came to America, there were no taxes, no debts, and no pollution. The women did all the work while the men hunted or fished all day. Ever since then, a bunch of idiotic do-gooders have been trying to "improve" the place. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:20 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. For aircraft like ours, I agree that there wouldn't be much if any measurable advantage to a one blade prop, and the associated problems would outweigh any slight advantages. However, they have been used to advantage on some model airplanes... control line "speed" ships that can do 200mph, with engines turning around 30,000 rpm. With such tiny props turning so fast, the blades ARE close enough together that going to one blade helps. -Dana >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Dana For a 1 blade to do its job effectively I would think that it should be installed on a slick go fast plane. The cruise would be in keeping with the large pitch angle needed to use up the HP. And less of the HP being used up as parasitic drag. To put it on a slow aircraft the prop would use up the hp but be stalled, therefore not creating the thrust that it could do on a faster craft. And as for the 1 blade design being the most efficient,, I should have clarified it by saying in cruise, and in a tractor configuration, where it is not slapping the large pitch against the disturbed air,, climb would probably not be as good even with the pitch reducing coning angle. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:34 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. From: "lucien" [quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"] > Hi Russ, > I hope i'am not asking a dumb question here,but I need some > advice.My engine's peak Hp is at 6500 rpm,I climb out at 700-800 > fpm,and cruse at 65-70 mph.If I increase the pitch of my 3-blade > prop, will I increase my cruse or climb rate? > > That sounds about like the envelope of my old FSII. Mine had the 503 with 3.47:1 C box and 68" WD 3-blade taper tip. I'd say thats about the best combo you can get on the FSII, tho admittedly I only had one other FSII in my area to actually compare to. He had the 2.58 B box and a 2 blade woody, I could outclimb him just a little bit, tho he seemed to have a little higher top end than my best climb pitch setting. For a while I ran about 6400 on climbout on mine but it would easily get to redline in level flight. The rule of thumb of bumping just up to redline at WOT straight and level will give the best compromise. With the prop set that way on my FSII that gave me about 6200 on climbout which was still plenty good climb and gave a comfortable 65mph cruise at about 5300. Just under 3 gph. I sure kinda miss that plane.... don't know if I ever mentioned that.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246717#246717 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:44 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: strange sputtering From: "dalewhelan" One person posted that it was possible the pilot jet was plugged. I think he meant to say this would cause a lean condition, as plugging up a fuel jet reduces fuel delivery. When they are lean throttle response is poor, just like when the motor is too cold. -------- Dale Whelan 503 powered Firestar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246724#246724 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: WRT M3X prop boom measurements. From: Richard Girard http://www.ultraligero.net/Cursos/varios/helice_de_una_pala.pdf Rick On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM, b young wrote: > > > For aircraft like ours, I agree that there wouldn't be much if any > measurable advantage to a one blade prop, and the associated problems would > outweigh any slight advantages. However, they have been used to advantage > on some model airplanes... control line "speed" ships that can do 200mph, > with engines turning around 30,000 rpm. With such tiny props turning so > fast, the blades ARE close enough together that going to one blade helps. > > -Dana > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. > > Dana > > For a 1 blade to do its job effectively I would think that it should be > installed on a slick go fast plane. The cruise would be in keeping with > the > large pitch angle needed to use up the HP. And less of the HP being used up > as parasitic drag. To put it on a slow aircraft the prop would use up the > hp but be stalled, therefore not creating the thrust that it could do on a > faster craft. > > And as for the 1 blade design being the most efficient,, I should have > clarified it by saying in cruise, and in a tractor configuration, where it > is not slapping the large pitch against the disturbed air,, climb would > probably not be as good even with the pitch reducing coning angle. > > Boyd Young > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.