---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/26/09: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:42 AM - Re: Re: R: VGs (Sky Biker Richardson) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl (Thom Riddle) 3. 05:38 AM - Re: Re: Thank you (John Hauck) 4. 06:04 AM - Re: Thank you (planecrazzzy) 5. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: Thank you (John Hauck) 6. 07:33 AM - Re: Thank you (Ralph B) 7. 08:15 AM - Re: Thank you (lucien) 8. 08:19 AM - Re: R: VGs (b young) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: R: VGs (John Hauck) 10. 08:40 AM - Re: Thank you (JetPilot) 11. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Thank you (John Hauck) 12. 08:54 AM - Re: Thank you (lucien) 13. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Thank you (John Hauck) 14. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Thank you (b young) 15. 10:18 AM - Re: R: VGs (b young) 16. 10:35 AM - Re: Thank you (lucien) 17. 10:58 AM - Re: Thank you (JetPilot) 18. 11:09 AM - T.N. Props (Ron @ KFHU) 19. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Thank you (John Hauck) 20. 12:41 PM - Re: T.N. Props (Mike Welch) 21. 12:44 PM - Re: R: VGs (zeprep251@aol.com) 22. 12:57 PM - Re: Re: Thank you (robert bean) 23. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Thank you (possums) 24. 04:54 PM - Re: T.N. Props (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:50 AM PST US From: Sky Biker Richardson Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: R: VGs Like so many others here I have been very happy with my VG's and been flyi ng over a year with them and installed with the carpet tape and no problems .. Has any one experimented with them on the tail section to help keep the tai l from dropping at low stall speeds? I do a lot of short field take off's a nd landings in cross winds with only one way in and one way out which was t o tight with out the VG's. MK111c/912UL SW Florida > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: R: VGs > From: leecannon@telus.net > Date: Thu=2C 25 Jun 2009 07:26:03 -0700 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > > Kolb Mark II=2C Hks 700 E=2C 550 lbs empty=2C 180 lb pilot=2C 2000'asl. I nitial flights with no vg's I was surprized and unhappy with my high stall speed of 38 mph power off. I added vg's as an experiment with low expectati ons. You should have seen my face when I landed after the first flight with vg's. Ten dollars worth of hardware store flashing and a days messing arou nd and my stall dropped minimum 10 mph. That's right TEN mph ! TEN DOLLARS - TEN MPH. Stall characteristics did not change that much - clean break aro und 26=2C but will mush along in full control right down to 26. > The advantages here are obvious. The disadvantages are minuscule. Top spe ed does not seem affected=2C but my testing would not be very accurate as m y plane is easily goes over vne=2C and low speed is my focus=2C so I didn't do very scientific testing. I thought washing the wing would be a hassle b ut the soft bristle brush I use doesnt seem to notice the vg's. > If anyone wants to make there own I'll send you a pattern one and instruc tions. I tested different adhesives and decided upon indoor/outdoor carpet tape from wallmart. It's sticky shit that is never coming off and is much c leaner to use than any liquid adhesive ( just happens to come in a roll the same width as the vg's). I put a rivet in the ones in front of the prop ju st in case but in hindsite I don't think it was necessary. Try it you'll li ke it !! Rob Cannon [Laughing] > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249950#249950 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:40 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Cayuna 430 and Pterodactyl From: "Thom Riddle" Fellow Kolbers, This discussion about primer types begs the question of what the primer is being used for and how it is installed. I expect this is going to start a lively discussion but so be it (or maybe not). Most of the primer installations I've seen on 2-stroke engines are being used as a manual pump to fill the float bowl, but that is not what they are intended for. The intended purpose of a primer is to get fuel into the intake (not the float bowl), which enables an easy and quick start up when cold. See attached image from Rotax installation manual. This can also be accomplished with a functional enricher like Bing carbs have. On my last FS I installed a primer squeeze bulb from West Marine in the way that ROTAX says to do it, plus a shut-off valve since I used it only for starting and wanted it completely isolated from the main fuel delivery system when not being used for a cold start. I used this in lieu of the enricher. Notice in the Rotax image that the primer is connected to the carburetor primer fitting, not in line to the float bowl. On Type Certificated airplanes, the primer line generally go straight to one or more intake manifold tubes, downstream of the carburetor. I'm not saying anyone else should do it this way, but Rotax does. In my experience, once the engine fires off with a bit of raw fuel (primer or enricher) the engine driven pump will maintain a full float bowl and the engine will start and run as intended. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250115#250115 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/primer_188.tif ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:14 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you > If anyone cares about the opinion of a low time pilot, (only 130 hours flight time) the reason for me impacting the ground was low airspeed. I was not stalled and I had good roll control with the ailerons, I was in sink and going too slow. Just my opinion, but I was there. > Dale Whelan Dale: One of the fine characteristics of Kolb aircraft is the ability to do exactly what you describe above, a mush/stall. You still have roll control because the outboard ends of the wings, that also have the ailerons attached, have not completely stalled. When this happens, close to the ground, you are finished flying because there is not enough altitude to get the nose down to get out of the stall. You and your girlfriend are very fortunate the nose did not drop. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "planecrazzzy" Seafoam has Finally met it's match with VG thread... .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250127#250127 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:21 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you Dale: Where??? I seem to have missed all this hostility and name calling. We have lively discussions and do not always agree on everything. Occasionally, we have a new guy, or someone who does not post very often, raise a little Hell. I like to share what I do and how I do it, rather than tell folks that this is the best, worst, or only way to do something. There is a lot of reinventing of the wheel here. Some of us that have been messing with Kolbs for a while probably have made the same mistakes and found cures years ago. All in all, I think we are a pretty good group, especially when we get together at a couple of our Kolb flyins. john h mkIII I find the large number of hostile responses and name calling kind of odd. I read the purpose of this forum is to promote camaraderie. I don't feel it so much here. I do like the people I have met in person so far. -------- Dale Whelan ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:40 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "Ralph B" planecrazzzy wrote: > Seafoam has Finally met it's match with VG thread... > . > . > Gotta Fly... > Mike & "Jaz" in MN Someone mention Seafoam? My Original Firestar doesn't have VG's and it stalls at 20mph indicated airspeed. The Kolbra has them and stalls at 45mph solo and 50mph with a passenger. On landing, there have been times where it drops suddenly if I get it too slow. The Firestar has more of a mush when it gets into ground effect. I'm not sure if the VG's were installed right or not as I didn't build it. There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been tempted to remove them. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250146#250146 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "lucien" dalewhelan wrote: > I find the large number of hostile responses and name calling kind of odd. > > The trick there is to Just Say No to Ad Hominum attacks and stick to the facts and information. In the last salvo, you were the one who initiated the small amount of name calling that did go on. I tend to take a no-participation policy on that to start with and just concentrate on the information at hand in the thread. Being well-liked or respected by others as a "real" pilot is not my business anymore. I don't take chances with my equipment or my life to achieve status anymore, even tho that rankles some. Too bad. Just something that works for me, don't necessarily suggest it to you. > > I read the purpose of this forum is to promote camaraderie. I don't feel it so much here. I do like the people I have met in person so far. Sharing of information that can save your airplane and/or your life takes precedence over camaraderie by a long, long ways IMO. Speaking personally, I don't mind tweaking a few noses and perhaps being looked down upon for the way I fly if I can help keep someones' plane out of the dirt or worse the pilot possibly out of the hospital. I'd rather we all continue to fly for fun than being well-liked or well-respected. But like I said, noone has to believe me. I'm just an old(ish) ultralighter who has learned a few things about keeping a light aircraft flying and avoiding survival exercises - I also happen to not be shy about sharing my experience there when I see someone doing something potentially expensive or even life-threatening. But that's all it is, a sharing of my experience. Thus it's worth what you paid for it. "Just the fact's, ma'am, just the facts" LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250157#250157 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:06 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: R: VGs Think I'll put 3 sets on ,then I can hover. G.Aman mk-3c >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can hover with 3 sets.. Try 4. The negative airspeed take off and landings must have some application. Boyd Young Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:37 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: R: VGs Boyd: That could be the reason some folks haul "ballast" in their Kolbs. john h mkIII If you can hover with 3 sets.. Try 4. The negative airspeed take off and landings must have some application. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "JetPilot" [quote="lucien"] dalewhelan wrote: > > > I don't take chances with my equipment or my life to achieve status anymore, even tho that rankles some. Too bad. > > LS I have been waiting to see videos of Lucien doing loops, rolls, and spins in his Titan but nothing yet... I also have been wanting to see how the Titan will handle those 50 MPH gales they have in New Mexico and the extreme flight reports ! We need to get Lucien back in his competitive spirit again ;) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250166#250166 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:57 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been tempted to remove them. > > Ralph Take them off the horizontal stabilizer and put them on your helmet. Ask Buford. They worked for him. I think you also need a great big old cigar to complete the flight suit. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "lucien" [quote="JetPilot"] lucien wrote: > > dalewhelan wrote: > > > > > > I don't take chances with my equipment or my life to achieve status anymore, even tho that rankles some. Too bad. > > > > LS > > > I have been waiting to see videos of Lucien doing loops, rolls, and spins in his Titan but nothing yet... I also have been wanting to see how the Titan will handle those 50 MPH gales they have in New Mexico and the extreme flight reports ! We need to get Lucien back in his competitive spirit again ;) > > Mike The limitation isn't the plane, it's the pilot. The local II S flies in crap I wouldn't dare take mine up in, he flies a bit closer to the edge than I like to. I do plan to barrel roll it at some point, but I want to get some training in rolls first. The original owner (JD) rolled it a bunch and there're videos here and there of it. Here he is flying it when it had the original 80 horse 912 on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6fb8tMQ7wI Here's me trying to do a good landing in it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qqAS_NAlDk&feature=channel Not Kolb related so do not archive LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250169#250169 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:26 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you I also have been wanting to see how the Titan will handle those 50 MPH gales they have in New Mexico and the extreme flight reports ! We need to get Lucien back in his competitive spirit again ;) > > Mike Don't hold your breath. Lucien is too smart to fly in those kinds of winds. Only uneducated, inexperienced Kolbers from Alabama and Louisiana fly in those conditions. If we had known better, we would have had the MV flyin in Mississippi, this year, so we wouldn't have to encounter NM winds. john h mkIII - Haven't flown in nearly a month. Hope my mkIII is still in the hanger. ;-( ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:01 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been tempted to remove them. Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. I think I would leave them on. The tail plane is designed to create a downward force in order to keep the plane at the desired attitude. If the vg's help with a lower airspeed, there would be a decrease in the effectiveness of the tail plane. (possibly restored by the vg's in this area) This would be more pronounced at the forward edge of the cg envelope where more downward force is required. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:50 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: R: VGs John, Few things make me chuckle for the entire time I am reading mail.. Still have a smile on my face. Boyd Young Do not archive Boyd: That could be the reason some folks haul "ballast" in their Kolbs. john h mkIII If you can hover with 3 sets.. Try 4. The negative airspeed take off and landings must have some application. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > Don't hold your breath. Lucien is too smart to fly in those kinds of winds. > With all due respect, you're quite right. Back when I was working on my private back in TX, I met an old retired gentleman who I eventually learned had had a long career as a pilot in the military. He used to instruct in the P-51 among others, his hours was somewhere in the 20,000 range in an uncountable number of different types of planes. One time, I was verbally curious to him about this very question of wind limits and other weather and asked his opinion. His response was "well, you fly when it's appropriate to fly". Another good friend from my ultralighting days, when answering criticism about his flying preferences, always used to say about UL'ers: "we're exactly where we want to be once the wheels leave the ground". Those two guys and their remarks have always stuck with me... Not Kolb related so.... do not archive LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250190#250190 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you From: "JetPilot" Lucien, Good videos of the takeoff and landings ! I had not seen that before. Do you have a heater in the Titan ? I see snow beside the runway [Shocked] I am with you on taking it easy, I am one of the first to call it a day and stay on the ground when it starts to get rough and windy ( unless I am at work and have to fly ). I do this for fun, and if I'm not having fun I don't fly. I used to do a lot of aerobatics, I owned a Cessna 150 aerobat, it was a blast, I would tear it up every time I flew, which was almost every day :) I really miss aerobatics. I have taught quite a few guys aerobatics and EVERY single person made the same mistake on the first rolls. When you are starting to get inverted, and inverted, and until you start to get level, you must push forward on the stick. Everyone just keeps full aileron in, but just goes neutral on the elevator, which results in a high speed dive and high speed pullout. I have seen 160 MPH and 5.5 G's on the pullout when guys fall out of the roll. Make sure to push that stick forward until you feel yourself hanging in the belts as soon as you start to get inverted and keep it there so that you don't fall out the bottom. Once you get the hang of it, you can do a roll with almost no stress on the airplane, and no negative G's, but everyone screws it up and tries to keep to much positive G's, and falls out the first time. You will be fine with even just a little bit of instruction, but instruction is required ! Keep the videos coming, even though its not Kolb its always great to see the videos, it beats watching Oprah in the mornings :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250200#250200 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:04 AM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Kolb-List: T.N. Props I remember several people talking about Tennessee Propellers, so for my replacement I called them up Wednesday Morning early and see if they got a prop for me. A fellow there Steve was talking with me, gave him all the dimensions and so on, he called later said he has a prop for me. Placed a rush order on it FEX O.N. . Well it came in Today a day late, and with the wrong hole pattern. It seems that they only work there half day as anytime I call after 10am my time, or noon their time, no one is answering the phone. The prop is nice it came with a nick on the trailing age near the tip of one blade. Seems like them boys there are not focused 100% on shop stuff. Is there anyone else that can do wood props or they are pretty much all we got for vintage wood props. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:10 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you > Those two guys and their remarks have always stuck with me... > > Not Kolb related so.... > > > LS Lucien: A fair weather flyer will remain a fair weather flyer, unless he is trained and current in other weather conditions. I would be the last person to encourage others to get into situations that are beyond their limits. However, the only way to learn and stay proficient, at other than fair weather, is to get out, learn, and train in challenging conditions. The primary reason I try to stay proficient, in all types of weather, is the chance of getting caught out in it. Very easy to do. If I am not comfortable in these situations, I am bound to make mistakes. I have a 25 mph wind limit, but there are times when I have no choice but to fly in far greater wind conditions. I want to be comfortable and proficient enough to get home safe and sound. If I was primarily a local, fair weather flyer, I'd make it a point to get out and at least do some pattern work, especially during breezy New Mexico conditions. Flying is a high risk sport, especially in something one has built in his basement. I know how my airplanes are built, except when I am flying others. If flying was not risky, exciting, challenging, fun, and adventuresome, I'd stick to dirt bikes, ATVs, and mountain biking. I had the chance to see some Kolb pilots from Lousiana fly out West, clear up into Oregon. I watched them encounter weather conditions that most pilots would only dream about. My two Cajun buddies did an outstanding job of flying, max gross, for the first time, and surviving, in their Kolb MKIII's, through deserts and the Rocky Mountains. I have flown out there many times, and I was screwing up more than they were. ;-) We had a blast. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:03 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: T.N. Props Ron=2C You might call Valley Engineering in Rolla=2C MO. I just met the whole b unch of them about two weeks ago. They are truly a family operation=2C fro m Gene=2C the eldest=2C and his wife=2C to his son (I think his name was La rry)=2C and Larry's sons and daughter-in-laws. They gave me the dime tour of their entire operation. They fabricate ent ire airplanes=2C convert VW engines=2C make belt redrive units for VWs and Generac engines=2C and lastly=3B they bought out Culver Props awhile back =2C and now they produce them. One of the daughter-in-laws was laying out maple planks=2C for laminating a huge 8 foot prop blank for an order that had to go out that day. She sh owed me the order. I said "hmm=2C mahogany throughout". She said "oh my g osh=2C I didn't see that. You just saved me from making a maple prop!!" ( cute story=2C not trying to put them down. She would have caught it soon e nough) At any rate=2C do an internet search for Valley Engineering. They'll fix you up with a good wood prop. Tell 'em Mike Welch sent ya. Mike Welch > Date: Fri=2C 26 Jun 2009 14:00:31 -0400 > From: captainron1@cox.net > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: T.N. Props > > > I remember several people talking about Tennessee Propellers=2C so for my replacement I called them up Wednesday Morning early and see if they got a prop for me. A fellow there Steve was talking with me=2C gave him all the dimensions and so on=2C he called later said he has a prop for me. Placed a rush order on it FEX O.N. . Well it came in Today a day late=2C and with t he wrong hole pattern. It seems that they only work there half day as anyti me I call after 10am my time=2C or noon their time=2C no one is answering t he phone. > The prop is nice it came with a nick on the trailing age near the tip of one blade. > Seems like them boys there are not focused 100% on shop stuff. Is there a nyone else that can do wood props or they are pretty much all we got for vi ntage wood props. > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: R: VGs From: zeprep251@aol.com Yea,I can back it into the hanger before shutting it down.It does slow re al good, why not try for reverse! =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: b young Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 11:16 am Subject: RE: Kolb-List: R: VGs Think I'll put 3 sets on ,then I can hover. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- G.Aman mk-3c =C2- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=C2- =C2- If you can hover with 3 sets. Try =C2-4=C2-=C2-=C2 - The negative airspeed take off and landings =C2-must have some application. =C2- Boyd Young Do not archive. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:44 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you My old flying buddy called it the "empty the ashtrays" maneuver. BB On 26, Jun 2009, at 1:55 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > Lucien, > > Good videos of the takeoff and landings ! I had not seen that > before. Do you have a heater in the Titan ? I see snow beside the > runway [Shocked] > > I am with you on taking it easy, I am one of the first to call it a > day and stay on the ground when it starts to get rough and windy > ( unless I am at work and have to fly ). I do this for fun, and if > I'm not having fun I don't fly. > > I used to do a lot of aerobatics, I owned a Cessna 150 aerobat, it > was a blast, I would tear it up every time I flew, which was > almost every day :) I really miss aerobatics. I have taught > quite a few guys aerobatics and EVERY single person made the same > mistake on the first rolls. When you are starting to get inverted, > and inverted, and until you start to get level, you must push > forward on the stick. Everyone just keeps full aileron in, but > just goes neutral on the elevator, which results in a high speed > dive and high speed pullout. I have seen 160 MPH and 5.5 G's on > the pullout when guys fall out of the roll. Make sure to push that > stick forward until you feel yourself hanging in the belts as soon > as you start to get inverted and keep it there so that you don't > fall out the bottom. Once you get the hang of it, you can do a > roll with almost no stress on the airplane, and no negative G's, > but everyone screws it up and tries to keep to much positive G's, > and falls ! > out the first time. You will be fine with even just a little bit > of instruction, but instruction is required ! > > Keep the videos coming, even though its not Kolb its always great > to see the videos, it beats watching Oprah in the mornings :) > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250200#250200 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:19 PM PST US From: possums Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you www.landshorter.com If you decide to use them on the underside of your horizontal stabilizer to improve your flare then you will place them about 1" apart and just in front of the elevator. In all cases the VG's are placed at a precise angle to the airstream and are aligned and spaced with the included templates At 01:06 PM 6/26/2009, you wrote: > >There are VG's underneath the elevator just ahead of the hinges. I'm been >tempted to remove them. > >Ralph > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. > >I think I would leave them on. The tail plane is designed to create a >downward force in order to keep the plane at the desired attitude. > >Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: T.N. Props From: Richard Girard Ron, I second the opinion Mike Welch gave you on the Valley Engineering folks doing Culver Props. About 10 years back I bought a Culver Prop for a LongEZ project (pre VE Culver). I bought it from a reputable fellow who had been keeping it under the bed for the day he needed a spare. It had been designed using the Don Bates "Prop Optimizer" software and was supposed to be just the ticket for up to 125 HP. Skip ahead a few years and I was getting ready to move and clearing out old projects. I sold the prop to a Varieze owner who wanted a spare prop. He mounted it and said it was okay, just nothing special on his O-235 C1 Lyc at 108 HP. He called Valley Engineering who had just bought the Culver business and they offered to take a look at it and see if there was anything that could be done to improve it. Mike got the prop back, put it on and was amazed to find the prop was not only perfectly smooth, but his Varieze was now 40 knots faster than before. Best thing was, all it cost was mailing. VE didn't charge him a dime.Skip ahead a few years more and I told this story to someone here on the Kolb list. Forgive me I don't remember who it was, it might have been Grant, but while he didn't get that level of improvement he did get back an improved prop for the same cost as Mike paid. So yeah, the guys at Valley Engineering seem to know what they're doing and they treat folks right. Rick On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Ron @ KFHU wrote: > > I remember several people talking about Tennessee Propellers, so for my > replacement I called them up Wednesday Morning early and see if they got a > prop for me. A fellow there Steve was talking with me, gave him all the > dimensions and so on, he called later said he has a prop for me. Placed a > rush order on it FEX O.N. . Well it came in Today a day late, and with the > wrong hole pattern. It seems that they only work there half day as anytime I > call after 10am my time, or noon their time, no one is answering the phone. > The prop is nice it came with a nick on the trailing age near the tip of > one blade. > Seems like them boys there are not focused 100% on shop stuff. Is there > anyone else that can do wood props or they are pretty much all we got for > vintage wood props. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.