---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/28/09: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:11 AM - Re: Re: M3-Classic (loseyf@comcast.net) 2. 05:08 AM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (Jack B. Hart) 3. 06:09 AM - Rusty Rivets (poorboy) 4. 06:25 AM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (John Hauck) 5. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Cuyuna 430 and Pterodactyl (John Hauck) 6. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: M3-Classic (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 7. 06:49 AM - Re: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing (robert bean) 8. 07:42 AM - Re: T.N. Props (jerb) 9. 12:10 PM - Re: T.N. Props (Herb) 10. 12:18 PM - Re: T.N. Props (John Hauck) 11. 12:31 PM - Re: T.N. Props (Herb) 12. 04:09 PM - Penetrating oils (Richard Girard) 13. 04:54 PM - Re: Penetrating oils (John Hauck) 14. 05:09 PM - Re: VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS (ronlee) 15. 05:49 PM - Re: T.N. Props (Ron @ KFHU) 16. 06:12 PM - Re: Penetrating oils (robert bean) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: M3-Classic From: loseyf@comcast.net T29yYWghDQoNClRoYW5rIGhpbSBmb3IgbWUgZm9yIGhpcyBzZXJ2aWNlIHRvIG91ciBDb3VudHJ5 LCBTZW1wZXIgRmkNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0K LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEVsbGVyeSBCYXRjaGVsZGVyIEpyIDxl bGxlcnl3ZWxkQGFvbC5jb20+DQoNCkRhdGU6IFNhdCwgMjcgSnVuIDIwMDkgMjE6NDI6MTUgDQpU bzogPGtvbGItbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IEtvbGItTGlzdDogUmU6 IE0zLUNsYXNzaWMNCg0KDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:05 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing At 10:01 PM 6/27/09 -0500, you wrote: > >Jack > > Nice work...might be worth a patent application? Everyone surely >appreciates the ability to hold egts constant...? Or at least dial them in... > > May have asked...what is wrong with automating the jet needle to >do same? Herb > Herb, There is nothing wrong with automating the needle. One could sense the EGT and use a electrical feedback mechanism and a servo to adjust the needle. The reason I didn't take this approach is that I am not good at electrical things and I didn't like the failure mode possibilities, the weight, and the cost. What I have come up with is, I believe, simpler to make, costs about $50, bullet proof, and easy to use. One has to drill two holes in the carburetor to insert the probes, but no jets or needle has been changed. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Rusty Rivets From: "poorboy" I have built several kolbs in the past and now I have a Kolb Firestar project that I stored poorly last year and picked up a little bit of rivet rust (my faulty storage). This is an older kit with steel rivets and I will replace some of the rivets with Stainless Steel rivets, if memory serves me correctly it seems that some kolb kits came with steel rivets and some came with Stainless Steel rivets. My question to the list is what products and procedures are recommended to paint or coat the steel rivet heads before covering. I am tempted to replace some of the steel rivets with SS in some high stress areas as the Stainless Steel rivets are stronger and of coarse they won't rust but I know that Stainless Steel rivets are a real bugger if you need to remove them, I'd like to hear the discussion on what rivet (steel or SS) is advantageous on the kolb, I don't know if my temptation to remove some of the Steel rivets and replace them with SS is worth the effort. When removing a rivet I use 7/64 drill bit and remove the head with a chisel, then knock out the remaining stem before installing a new rivet. That is the procedure I use, anyone got a better one. I'd like to hear the lists comments on anti rust products and rivet removal procedures, I guess I am too lazy a bugger to look up what post posts on the subject so I hope folks don't mind my reposting this question. Thanks.... Jim H. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250424#250424 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:33 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing Possum: I remember those two items. Would have had both on my Ultrastar, but could not afford the Ultrastar and the luxury of a CB and a LORAN back then. All the UL Parts Catalogs had them advertised. It was a great adventure to be able to make it there and back home. john h mkIII I remember - but that was what you had to do to get home. BTW getting home was what got you in trouble. We had CB's. then aircraft radios, then "the boat things (lorans) with the wires going back to our tails" now the GPS system. Fun if you just got there. Photo shopped of course - but like it was - fly low & don't trust anything. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:02 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Cuyuna 430 and Pterodactyl MessageThe Kolb belt drive used two poly-V belts on the Ultrastar and Cuyuna ULII02. I don't know about 4 belt drives. Kits came with a Culver 50X30 prop. This was a near perfect prop for the US. I imagine Valley Engineering is probably still carving that particular prop. john h mkIII Does anyone know the proper belt tension for the 4 belt drive? About how much flex in the middle in inches(or MM) I know it needs less pitch(has an Ultraprop 3 blade 48") but it flies great. Am I loading it down too much? Thanks,Mark.....Ultrastar with 30hrs since March ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: M3-Classic From: Ellery Batchelder Jr I will do just that I think in the future he will be a Kolb Pilot also he wants me to teach him how to fly when he will be around enough but he is getting married in another month so it might be a long while? Ellery in Maine? -----Original Message----- From: loseyf@comcast.net Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2009 7:08 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: M3-Classic Oorah! Thank him for me for his service to our Country, Semper Fi Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: M3-Classic Brooksvill florida but the owner is going to meet me in North Carolin= er (MARINE) fresh out of Iraq second tour a great time for me to meet with= him Ellery in Maine -----Original Message----- From: daniel myers Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:38 am Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: M3-Classic ellerly, what part of florida? I am just north of?Orlando. daniel fsII amphibian ? Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: M3-Classic From: elleryweld@aol.com Kolbers ?it looks like I will be headed south soon to pick up a= M3-Classic from Florida I am sure that Plane will do me well I got burned out Building eveyone elses airplanes and kept working on othe= rs instead of my own and decided that I could buy one all flying Cheaper= than Building my MK3Xtra so I will be selling the kit I have and I will= be haunting the sky's again in a week or so oh This one doesnt have VG's just the way I like it Ellery in Maine -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 2:58 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Thank you ? ? > Those two guys and their remarks have always stuck with me...? >? > Not Kolb related so....? >? >? > LS? ? Lucien:? ? A fair weather flyer will remain a fair weather flyer, unless he is traine= d and current in other weather conditions.? ? I would be the last person to encourage others to get into situations that= are beyond their limits. However, the only way to learn and stay proficie= nt, at other than fair weather, is to get out, learn, and train in challen= ging conditions.? ? The primary reason I try to stay proficient, in all types of weather, is= the chance of getting caught out in it. Very easy to do. If I am not comf= ortable in these situations, I am bound to make mistakes.? ? I have a 25 mph wind limit, but there are times when I have no choice but= to fly in far greater wind conditions. I want to be comfortable and profi= cient enough to get home safe and sound.? ? If I was primarily a local, fair weather flyer, I'd ma ke it a point to get out and at least do some pattern work, especially dur= ing breezy New Mexico conditions.? ? Flying is a high risk sport, especially in something one has built in his= basement. I know how my airplanes are built, except when I am flying othe= rs.? ? If flying was not risky, exciting, challenging, fun, and adventuresome, I'= d stick to dirt bikes, ATVs, and mountain biking.? ? I had the chance to see some Kolb pilots from Lousiana fly out West, clear= up into Oregon. I watched them encounter weather conditions that most pil= ots would only dream about. My two Cajun buddies did an outstanding job of= flying, max gross, for the first time, and surviving, in their Kolb MKIII= 's, through deserts and the Rocky Mountains. I have flown out there many= times, and I was screwing up more than they were. ;-) We had a blast.&nbs= p; ? john h? mkIII ? ? ? Hotmail=C2=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=99t worry about storage= limits. Check it out. ========================= ============ atronics List Features Navigator to browse rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ========================= ============ tp://forums.matronics.com ========================= ============ _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========================= ============ ========================= ============ tp://forums.matronics.com ========================= ============ _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========================= ============ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! Hotmail=C2=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=99t worry about storage= limits. Check it out. ========================= ============ atronics List Features Navigator to browse rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ========================= ============ tp://forums.matronics.com ========================= ============ _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========================= ============ ========================= ============ tp://forums.matronics.com ========================= ============ _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========================= ============ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:41 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Dynamic Air Pressure Filter Housing A map and a compass will do the job. -A little more work but challenging. Flying in areas like north central Ohio all the little towns look the same. It can get confusing. I'm glad I had a windproof cabin at the time, an ultrastar would make it tough going. BB On 28, Jun 2009, at 9:05 AM, John Hauck wrote: > Possum: > > I remember those two items. Would have had both on my Ultrastar, > but could not afford the Ultrastar and the luxury of a CB and a > LORAN back then. All the UL Parts Catalogs had them advertised. > > It was a great adventure to be able to make it there and back home. > > john h > mkIII > > > I remember - but that was what you had to do to get home. BTW > getting home was what got you in trouble. > We had CB's. then aircraft radios, then "the boat things (lorans) > with the wires going back to our tails" > now the GPS system. Fun if you just got there. > Photo shopped of course - but like it was - fly low & don't trust > anything. > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:22 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: T.N. Props Drilling a second set of mounting holes into the hub, would that not weaken that area just a mite? Don't sound right to me, cheese hub prop, I don't like sound of that. Send it back. Give them the time to do it right or order a Culver from Valley Engineering. jerb At 09:46 AM 6/27/2009, you wrote: > >Richard I have not seen a post from Mike Welsh on Valley engineering??? > >I googled yesterday and got a hold of PPG propellers. Later finally >got a hold of someone at T.N. Props and he suggested that I see if >the holes line up and if maybe I can drill holes to get the prop on. >As it turned out the hub already had about 6 frigging holes in it >and by pure chance I guess, two actually lined up with my hub. I >took the backing plates off bolted them in on the two lined up >holes, and drilled another two. It is on now fine looking pretty as >it gets, with one caveat all the frigging holes in that hub can't do >much for strength. I got some other things going but if the whirl >can stay on at full power on the Cuyuna then its strong enough. I >never use full throttle in that Dack anyway. I was told that I can >get another prop and pass on the cost, so now I may buy another one >just for grins. I still trust the one I repaired a hell of a lot >more than this new one with the cheese hub. > >Ron @ KFHU >======================== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:21 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: T.N. Props Some guys just glue maple dowells in the old holes and start over... Recall that the glue is stronger than the wood...:-) fwiw...I have a friend who got a prop from a well known co...with the holes mis aligned... He went down there to show them the problem and came home shaking his head ...They use an old , in his words; worn out drill press...to drill the holes.. He plugged the holes and drilled new ones...Herb At 09:40 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: > >Drilling a second set of mounting holes into the hub, would that not >weaken that area just a mite? >Don't sound right to me, cheese hub prop, I don't like sound of >that. Send it back. Give them the time to do it right or order a >Culver from Valley Engineering. >jerb > > >At 09:46 AM 6/27/2009, you wrote: >> >>Richard I have not seen a post from Mike Welsh on Valley engineering??? >> >>I googled yesterday and got a hold of PPG propellers. Later finally >>got a hold of someone at T.N. Props and he suggested that I see if >>the holes line up and if maybe I can drill holes to get the prop >>on. As it turned out the hub already had about 6 frigging holes in >>it and by pure chance I guess, two actually lined up with my hub. >>I took the backing plates off bolted them in on the two lined up >>holes, and drilled another two. It is on now fine looking pretty as >>it gets, with one caveat all the frigging holes in that hub can't >>do much for strength. I got some other things going but if the >>whirl can stay on at full power on the Cuyuna then its strong >>enough. I never use full throttle in that Dack anyway. I was told >>that I can get another prop and pass on the cost, so now I may buy >>another one just for grins. I still trust the one I repaired a hell >>of a lot more than this new one with the cheese hub. >> >>Ron @ KFHU >>======================== > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >06/27/09 17:55:00 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:12 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: T.N. Props > fwiw...I have a friend who got a prop from a well known co...with the > holes mis aligned... He went down there to show them the problem and came > home shaking his head ...They use an old , in his words; worn out drill > press...to drill the holes.. He plugged the holes and drilled new > ones...Herb For the benefit of list members, could you tell us who this well known company is, please? john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:04 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: T.N. Props I live in Ky...so down there is south...:-) Go fly John!! :-) Herb At 02:16 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote: > > >> fwiw...I have a friend who got a prop from a well known >> co...with the holes mis aligned... He went down there to show them >> the problem and came home shaking his head ...They use an old , in >> his words; worn out drill press...to drill the holes.. He plugged >> the holes and drilled new ones...Herb > > >For the benefit of list members, could you tell us who this well >known company is, please? > >john h >mkIII > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >06/27/09 17:55:00 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Penetrating oils From: Richard Girard One of the guys in our EAA chapter sent me this for the newsletter. I thought it might me of interest. Rick Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker. Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison test. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. Penetrating oil ..... Average load None ...................... 516 pounds WD-40 .................... 238 pounds PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ........ 127 pounds Kano Kroil ............... 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix.......53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:38 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Penetrating oils Liquid Wrench ........ 127 pounds Kano Kroil ............... 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix.......53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. Rick: I am a fan of Kroil. It works miracles. My own personal experience indicates it is far superior to Liquid Wrench and PB Blaster. I do a lot of work on 9 antique tractors, some older than me. ;-) Makes life a lot easier working on these old babies. I'll give the ATF/acetone mix a try, but will have to be careful using it in areas of paint and plastics/lexan. Even though it cost more, I'll stick to Kroil as my primary assistant. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS From: "ronlee" Good Lord John. Why don't you just try the VGs or quit commenting on the subject. Maybe you are just trying to stir the pot and have some fun. -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250520#250520 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:13 PM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: T.N. Props Well checked the new prop today at full power for some extended period. That prop is good! Cheese hub or not. I could feel the pull of the air into the prop real good. It looks to me like that hub has enough strength margin to where two more holes did not bother it at all. Out of curiosity I need to find some serious fish scale and see what is the difference if any between this T.N prop and the old one. It sure felt smoother obviously, it was balanced more recently. If that canard was repaired ( need an eye bolt,, on order) I would have taken it up just to see what I can see. Iow I am okay with this new cheese hub prop. ================================== ---- Herb wrote: ============ Some guys just glue maple dowells in the old holes and start over... Recall that the glue is stronger than the wood...:-) fwiw...I have a friend who got a prop from a well known co...with the holes mis aligned... He went down there to show them the problem and came home shaking his head ...They use an old , in his words; worn out drill press...to drill the holes.. He plugged the holes and drilled new ones...Herb At 09:40 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote: > >Drilling a second set of mounting holes into the hub, would that not >weaken that area just a mite? >Don't sound right to me, cheese hub prop, I don't like sound of >that. Send it back. Give them the time to do it right or order a >Culver from Valley Engineering. >jerb > > >At 09:46 AM 6/27/2009, you wrote: >> >>Richard I have not seen a post from Mike Welsh on Valley engineering??? >> >>I googled yesterday and got a hold of PPG propellers. Later finally >>got a hold of someone at T.N. Props and he suggested that I see if >>the holes line up and if maybe I can drill holes to get the prop >>on. As it turned out the hub already had about 6 frigging holes in >>it and by pure chance I guess, two actually lined up with my hub. >>I took the backing plates off bolted them in on the two lined up >>holes, and drilled another two. It is on now fine looking pretty as >>it gets, with one caveat all the frigging holes in that hub can't >>do much for strength. I got some other things going but if the >>whirl can stay on at full power on the Cuyuna then its strong >>enough. I never use full throttle in that Dack anyway. I was told >>that I can get another prop and pass on the cost, so now I may buy >>another one just for grins. I still trust the one I repaired a hell >>of a lot more than this new one with the cheese hub. >> >>Ron @ KFHU >>======================== > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >06/27/09 17:55:00 -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:49 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Penetrating oils I never had much luck with liquid wrench. PB Blaster is superior and Thrust is good stuff too. -hard to find though. BB On 28, Jun 2009, at 7:04 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > One of the guys in our EAA chapter sent me this for the newsletter. > I thought it might me of interest. > > Rick > > Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break > out torque on rusted nuts. > Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student > and professional machinist, Bud Baker. > > Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine > comparison test. > > They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with > the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a > "scientifically rusted" environment. > > > Penetrating oil ..... Average load > None ...................... 516 pounds > > WD-40 .................... 238 pounds > > PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds > > Liquid Wrench ........ 127 pounds > > Kano Kroil ............... 106 pounds > > ATF-Acetone mix.......53 pounds > > The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic > transmission fluid and acetone. > > Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this > one particular test. > > Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it > with equally good results. > > Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for > about 20% of the price. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.