Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Re: R: VGs (Brad Stump)
2. 05:30 AM - A different VG question.. (Watkinsdw)
3. 05:46 AM - Re: A different VG question.. (robert bean)
4. 06:41 AM - Re: Penetrating oils (Denny Rowe)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: Penetrating oils (robert bean)
6. 08:29 AM - Re: A different VG question.. (Watkinsdw)
7. 08:41 AM - Re: A different VG question.. (The Kuffels)
8. 09:36 AM - Re: A different VG question.. (Watkinsdw)
9. 01:18 PM - Re: Penetrating oils (olendorf)
10. 01:26 PM - VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS] (Jeremy Casey)
11. 01:43 PM - new video, Steen's again (Larry Cottrell)
12. 01:43 PM - Re: VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS] (John Hauck)
13. 02:04 PM - Re: Penetrating oils (william sullivan)
14. 02:35 PM - Was: VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS] Now: Ultimate Flight Testing (John Hauck)
15. 04:57 PM - Re: A different VG question.. (Richard Girard)
16. 06:19 PM - Re: A different VG question.. (Watkinsdw)
17. 07:23 PM - Re: T.N. Props (Dana Hague)
18. 08:12 PM - US tank balance (Dana Hague)
19. 08:31 PM - Re: US tank balance (daniel myers)
20. 10:46 PM - Re: Rotax 503 running problem (dalewhelan)
21. 11:02 PM - Re: new video, Steen's again (R. Hankins)
Message 1
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Now that IS funny. What is he smokin??
> -----Original Message-----
> From: possums@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:00:46 -0400
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: R: VGs
>
> I don't know......maybe it ain't the VGs that would make you a little
> light headed?
>
> At 09:08 PM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>>
> >Possum:
>>
> >Think this guy has VGs on his helmet, just like Buford.
> >I'd try the helmet VGs but afraid I might get a little light headed.
> >john h
____________________________________________________________
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Message 2
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| Subject: | A different VG question.. |
Can anyone tell me if the installation of VG's is considerd a "major alteration",
ala FAR Part 43.17? If I were to install them, would I need to file the FAA
form 337?
Note: I'm not the builder of my MKIII-C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250572#250572
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| Subject: | Re: A different VG question.. |
337s are never used on experimentals.
log book entry, weight and balance if necessary, and test flight.
BB
On 29, Jun 2009, at 8:29 AM, Watkinsdw wrote:
> <david.watkins0@gmail.com>
>
> Can anyone tell me if the installation of VG's is considerd a
> "major alteration", ala FAR Part 43.17? If I were to install them,
> would I need to file the FAA form 337?
> Note: I'm not the builder of my MKIII-C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250572#250572
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Penetrating oils |
I never had much luck with liquid wrench.
PB Blaster is superior and Thrust is good stuff too.
-hard to find though.
BB
Bob,
I agree, I grew up working on backhoes and dozers as well as old
trucks, WD-40 is not really what I consider a penatrating oil and is
good for many things but breaking loose rusty bolts aint one of them. We
only ever had liquid wrench laying around the shop and before I was 15 I
was convinced it was a good for nothing snake oil! Never once did it
ever seem to loosen anything for us.
Discovered PB Blaster at work 18 years ago and have found it gives
results every time.
I'll have to try the ATF mix some day, right now I am trying to get
the exhaust off my JD 950 farm tractor (spun a rod bearing) and PB
hasn't loosened it yet.
D Rowe
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Penetrating oils |
As you know already they have to soak overnight.
Then give 'em a whack with a hammer and drift.
Last resort is oxy-acetylene localized heat.
don't burn down the barn :)
BB
On 29, Jun 2009, at 9:38 AM, Denny Rowe wrote:
>
>
> I never had much luck with liquid wrench.
> PB Blaster is superior and Thrust is good stuff too.
> -hard to find though.
> BB
>
> Bob,
> I agree, I grew up working on backhoes and dozers as well as old
> trucks, WD-40 is not really what I consider a penatrating oil and
> is good for many things but breaking loose rusty bolts aint one of
> them. We only ever had liquid wrench laying around the shop and
> before I was 15 I was convinced it was a good for nothing snake
> oil! Never once did it ever seem to loosen anything for us.
> Discovered PB Blaster at work 18 years ago and have found it gives
> results every time.
> I'll have to try the ATF mix some day, right now I am trying to get
> the exhaust off my JD 950 farm tractor (spun a rod bearing) and PB
> hasn't loosened it yet.
>
> D Rowe
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A different VG question.. |
Oh... that's helpful.
Can a non-builder make the logbook entry and document the test flight, or do I
need to get an A&P to sign off?
Thanks,
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250591#250591
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| Subject: | Re: A different VG question.. |
Watkinsdw asked:
<< Can anyone tell me if the installation of VG's is considered a "major
alteration", >>
Robert Bean replied:
<< 337s are never used on experimentals.
log book entry, weight and balance if necessary, and test flight. >>
Bob is correct about Experimental-Amateur Built and 337s. But you might
want to take an additional step if you wish to be certain you are on the
approved side of legal. Write a letter to your local FSDO and ask them if
they think adding VGs to your wing/fin/stabilizer/whatever you are planning
is a major alteration. You will get different answers from different FSDOs
but what matters is the opinion of the FSDO for your area.
If they think your change is major the worse they will do is put you back
into Phase I testing for 5/10/20/40 hours. Major or not, be sure to keep
their written response to be able to prove your change is in compliance.
You don't have to be the builder or an A&P or an AI to do any
maintenance/change to an E-AB aircraft. But since you are not the builder
an A&P must do the annual condition inspection. The first time after the
change be sure the mechanic notes he has included inspecting the "condition"
of the change in the log.
Realize this is crossing the "i"s and dotting the "t"s but it will be
invaluable if you ever have to defend yourself, your actions or your
aircraft to the authorities or in court. Dang, I hate lawyers.
Tom Kuffel
Whitefish, MT
Building original Firestar
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: A different VG question.. |
Thanks, Robert,
I've put in a call to my friendly local FSDO to get a quick read before I commit
my question to writing... The guy there was very helpful last time I had a question.
I appreciate your advice.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250614#250614
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| Subject: | Re: Penetrating oils |
I've had very good luck with PB blaster. It does seem to work 4 times better if
you apply the PB blaster and then heat it up with a propane torch for a minute.
Then add a little more PB. It seems like it is heat activated. Just watch
it because PB is flammable.
--------
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://KolbFirestar.googlepages.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250660#250660
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| Subject: | VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS] |
John, the VG's don't really increase the "lift" of the wing at normal
angles of attack (i.e. less than the normal stall angle of attack of a
VG-less wing)...the difference would have been past that...The VG's
allow the wing to produce lift to a higher AOA before stalling (VG's
energize the boundary layer to keep the airflow attached). So up until
the VG-less wing started to stall the plane probably wouldn't have
handled TOO strangely. If pushed to the point of allowing the VG-less
wing to stall you would have then had asymmetric stalling which is
essentially a spin entry...possibly unrecoverable. Steve Wittman used to
do empirical testing like this...he was also an extremely good pilot who
knew the edges of the envelope not to push too much. The clipped
triangle wingtip of the W10 Tailwind was added like that...on 1 wing
first then some test hops down the runway. From what was written about
it years ago I never understood if he flew it around the pattern or just
a crow-hop, but whatever...he realized the improvement and went and
modified the second wing to match.
The argument about a higher stall speed not being entirely bad does have
some validity. Talked to Randy Schlitter at SnF years ago. He was
looking over my RANS S7 and asked about my VGs...I told him the
improvement they made and he agreed that they helped a good bit, and
like John H., said "I don't like them..." I give him a puzzled look and
he added, "In the land of eternal wind, Kansas...at some point you WANT
it to stall..." Makes sense for him... The majority of the world though
they are going to be an improvement.
Jeremy Casey
John Hauck wrote:
> Nick:
> Your GA pilot friend seems to have less than good judgement.
> You forgot to mention a few things in your post:
> 1-If it took full aileron to keep the VG-less wing up in ground
> effect, it probably took full aileron to keep the wing up in any part
> of the flight. How did he do when he climbed up to stall the airplane?
> 2-Requiring full aileron to fly in ground effect, the pilot would have
> become aware of this soon as he broke ground, or most likely soon as
> the mains started getting light. Seems like at this point of the
> flight, he would have been running out of rudder and cajones.
> For what it is worth,
> john h
> mkIII
>
> .A GA pilot friend of my Tested VGs on his ScoutDont do this
> yourself. He taped the VGs on only one wing. His wings where
> well balance prior to test. He tested stalling his plane at
> altitude. The wing *without* VGs always stalled first.
>
> Next that he came in low over the runway, in ground effect, and
> had to use full aileron to keep the wing without VGs up. Not sure
> what he would have done if he ran out of aileron? He now flies
> with VGs.
>
> For what is worth.
>
> Nick Cassara
>
> *
> *
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Message 11
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| Subject: | new video, Steen's again |
http://owyheeflyer.blogspot.com/
Just up loaded a new bunch of pictures and a video of a flight that I
made this morning to the Steen's hoping to get some clues as to where to
Elk hunt this fall. Didn't find Elk, but had a very enjoyable flight.
Going to have to put some time in on the ground, now that I know where
to go.
Larry C
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with VGS] |
> John, the VG's don't really increase the "lift" of the wing at normal
> angles of attack (i.e. less than the normal stall angle of attack of a
> VG-less wing)...the difference would have been past that...The VG's allow
> the wing to produce lift to a higher AOA before stalling (VG's energize
> the boundary layer to keep the airflow attached). So up until the VG-less
> wing started to stall the plane probably wouldn't have handled TOO
> strangely.
>
> Jeremy Casey
Thanks, Jeremy:
That's why I ask questions, to learn.
Seems like many of my questions go unanswered though.
John Williamson tested his forward and aft cg limits in flight. Wish I had
those numbers. They don't agree with the paper weight and balance by any
means. One of the reasons I can fly with a 12 lb tail wheel, 150 lbs of
fuel behind the cg, and 125 lbs of cargo back there too. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Penetrating oils |
- Scott- heaitng it and then spraying probably works because of expansion
and contraction sucking the PB in.- I used to do it at work.- Yup, fla
mmable.- Sometimes spectacular.- Another way is to wrap it in a rag or
paper towel and then saturate with PB.- Go for coffee, or come back tomor
row.- The more time, the better.- Can't rush it.
-
-------------------------
------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct
.
-------------------------
------------------- FS 447
Message 14
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| Subject: | VG test done on GA airplane, and "Slow flight" with |
VGS] Now: Ultimate Flight Testing
> John Williamson tested his forward and aft cg limits in flight. Wish I
had
> those numbers. They don't agree with the paper weight and balance by any
> means. One of the reasons I can fly with a 12 lb tail wheel, 150 lbs of
> fuel behind the cg, and 125 lbs of cargo back there too. ;-)
>
> john h
> mkIII
Too damn hot to think this afternoon. Forgot everything I should have
shared above.
John W kept precise numbers on everything he did, whether it was a local
flight of 10 minutes and a leg of a 60 or 75 hour cross country flight. He
also kept precise numbers of his tests.
During flight testing of maximum and minum forward and aft cgs, John W used
weight in the nose of the aircraft progressively heavier until the airplane
would not leave the ground. He did the same with aft cg by adding weights
progressively, then test flying. He told me when he had gone beyond the aft
cg limit, he did not know it until he stalled the airplane (intentional),
the tail dropped and he could not get out of the stall at idle power. He
had to go full throttle to get enough air flow over the tail to get the
Kolbra flying again... Something folks might remember should they ever find
themselves in a similar situation.
I have never done "ultimate flight testing" with forward and aft cg,
although I thoroughly flight test any time I make a change either way.
john h
mkIIII
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: A different VG question.. |
Before you go contacting your local FSDO take a look at your operating
limitations. Depending on them, you may only have to put your airplane back
into phase 1 testing, redo the stall speed, Vx and Vy numbers, record them
in the aircraft logs and fly on. Again it depends on what's in the op
limitations.
Rick
do not archive
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:16 AM, The Kuffels <kuffel@cyberport.net> wrote:
>
> Watkinsdw asked:
>
> << Can anyone tell me if the installation of VG's is considered a "major
> alteration", >>
>
> Robert Bean replied:
>
> << 337s are never used on experimentals.
> log book entry, weight and balance if necessary, and test flight. >>
>
> Bob is correct about Experimental-Amateur Built and 337s. But you might
> want to take an additional step if you wish to be certain you are on the
> approved side of legal. Write a letter to your local FSDO and ask them if
> they think adding VGs to your wing/fin/stabilizer/whatever you are planning
> is a major alteration. You will get different answers from different FSDOs
> but what matters is the opinion of the FSDO for your area.
>
> If they think your change is major the worse they will do is put you back
> into Phase I testing for 5/10/20/40 hours. Major or not, be sure to keep
> their written response to be able to prove your change is in compliance.
>
> You don't have to be the builder or an A&P or an AI to do any
> maintenance/change to an E-AB aircraft. But since you are not the builder
> an A&P must do the annual condition inspection. The first time after the
> change be sure the mechanic notes he has included inspecting the "condition"
> of the change in the log.
>
> Realize this is crossing the "i"s and dotting the "t"s but it will be
> invaluable if you ever have to defend yourself, your actions or your
> aircraft to the authorities or in court. Dang, I hate lawyers.
>
> Tom Kuffel
> Whitefish, MT
> Building original Firestar
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: A different VG question.. |
Ok, Guys,
You've been a big help. Thanks for all your advice.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250692#250692
Message 17
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At 12:46 PM 6/27/2009, Ron @ KFHU wrote:
>I googled yesterday and got a hold of PPG propellers...
If you're talking about <http://www.ppgprops.com/> (Mike Hay) I can say he
does beautiful work and is very highly respected in the PPG community. I
don't know how big a prop he can make but he made a prop for the
Quicksilver I had before I got my UltraStar... he copied it from the
splintered prop I got with the plane when I got it, it looked gorgeous and
performed great too.
-Dana
--
I only drink to make other people more interesting.
Message 18
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One thing I've noticed with the original dual tanks on my UltraStar is that
they don't drain evenly. With the plane sitting on the ground they level
out, but in flight the left tank tends to run somewhat lower than the right
(they're plumbed together on the inner side of the valves with the outer
sides tee'd together at the fuel strainer). Anybody else see this?
I presume it's due to minor variation in air pressure at the vented caps,
which could be alleviated by poking holes in the top of the tanks and
running a tube between to let the air balance... thoughts?
-Dana
--
Campaigns to bearproof all garbage containers in some national parka have
been difficult, because as one biologist put it, "There is a considerable
overlap between the intelligence levels of the smartest bears and the
dumbest tourists."
Message 19
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mine do the same...but i think its because they are different shapes. i ass
ume you have the same size...
Daniel
fs2 amphibian
> Date: Mon=2C 29 Jun 2009 23:04:33 -0400
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com=3B KolbUltrastar@yahoogroups.com
> From: d-m-hague@comcast.net
> Subject: Kolb-List: US tank balance
>
>
> One thing I've noticed with the original dual tanks on my UltraStar is th
at
> they don't drain evenly. With the plane sitting on the ground they level
> out=2C but in flight the left tank tends to run somewhat lower than the r
ight
> (they're plumbed together on the inner side of the valves with the outer
> sides tee'd together at the fuel strainer). Anybody else see this?
>
> I presume it's due to minor variation in air pressure at the vented caps
=2C
> which could be alleviated by poking holes in the top of the tanks and
> running a tube between to let the air balance... thoughts?
>
> -Dana
> --
> Campaigns to bearproof all garbage containers in some national parka ha
ve
> been difficult=2C because as one biologist put it=2C "There is a consider
able
> overlap between the intelligence levels of the smartest bears and the
> dumbest tourists."
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 503 running problem |
Back to the original question about the bad running 503
My buddy did check the pulse generators and found one of them to be mounted in
a completely retarded position compared to the other.
I will set the timing with my dial indicator.
This should solve the different speeds with the different Mags.
Have yet to find the cause of the overall Rpm Drop.
I may get to look at it this weekend.
I will let you know if I find the answer.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250716#250716
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: new video, Steen's again |
Nice video Larry. The still shots were pretty good as well. I'm surprised how
much water is in the lake. Wasn't it dry when we were there for the fly-in?
I have been enjoying the blog, keep it up.
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250717#250717
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