Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:06 AM - Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (Thom Riddle)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (John Hauck)
3. 05:52 AM - Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (JetPilot)
4. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (Richard Girard)
5. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (John Hauck)
6. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (John Hauck)
7. 06:20 AM - Replacing main gear tires (Watkinsdw)
8. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (robert bean)
9. 06:33 AM - Re: Replacing main gear tires (robert bean)
10. 06:39 AM - Re: Replacing main gear tires (zeprep251@aol.com)
11. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic (John Hauck)
12. 07:01 AM - Re: Replacing main gear tires (ces308)
13. 08:54 AM - Re: Replacing main gear tires (Watkinsdw)
14. 11:04 AM - Re: New Videos (ces308)
15. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: New Videos (possums)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
John,
A thought occurred to me in regard to your unscientific test of full synthetic
oil vs semi-synthetic you used before. I don't know so I'm just asking the question.
Is it possible that Rotax recommends a semi-synthetic oil when using a
lot of leaded avgas because it extracts the lead and intentionally deposits it
in the bottom of the oil tank? Perhaps that is why they don't recommend the full
synthetic when using avgas because it does NOT extract the lead and deposit
in the bottom of the tank. Maybe the lead at the bottom of the oil tank is a
good thing and it not being there is a bad thing.
This is pure speculation but worth considering maybe?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
> A thought occurred to me in regard to your unscientific test of full
> synthetic oil vs semi-synthetic you used before. I don't know so I'm just
> asking the question. Is it possible that Rotax recommends a semi-synthetic
> oil when using a lot of leaded avgas because it extracts the lead and
> intentionally deposits it in the bottom of the oil tank? Perhaps that is
> why they don't recommend the full synthetic when using avgas because it
> does NOT extract the lead and deposit in the bottom of the tank. Maybe the
> lead at the bottom of the oil tank is a good thing and it not being there
> is a bad thing.
>
> This is pure speculation but worth considering maybe?
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
Thom:
Ideally, we want all the lead suspended in the motor oil so we can drain it
out with the oil at scheduled changes, or sooner. I usually change sooner.
If lead collects in the bottom of the oil tank, it is also collecting in
other parts and pockets of the engine. In extreme conditions lead can block
oil galleries and cause abnormal wear on the engine.
Sludge in an engine is not lead contamination. I don't have any engines
with sludge, except my old antique tractors that were run on nondetergent
oil many years ago. Some of them have an inch or two of sludge on the
bottom of the oil pan. I run Shell Rotella organic oil in everything I have
except the 912, ATV, and dirt bike. These three run on Rotella Synthetic.
All my engines are spotless inside except the old tractors, but they dump
tons of crap out of them every oil change. The Rotella is working on years
of accumulation.
Recently opened up my little Kubota B6100 engine that is pushing 30 years
old. Operated on Rotella, it was clean as a whistle.
For Tony Oldman: The Rotella hasn't increased leakage or oil burning on any
of the old tractors.
Organic oil suspends lead better than synthetic oil. The reason Rotax
recommend semi-synthetic blend when operating on 100LL is to suspend lead
and do a better job at the 912's higher operating temps.
I have operated my 912 on a 50/50 blend of Rotella and 100LL. Results were
no better, if not as good as the results I discovered on this last flight of
60 hours and 300 gals of 100LL. I was pleasantly surprised at how little
lead remained in the bottom of the oil tank. Only a trace.
We have to remember that this test was conducted under long cross country
flight conditions, a lot of flight time in a short number of days. Legs
were generally two hours length, more or less. These conditions are quite
different from local flying. I use mogas flying locally, but don't do much
local flying any more.
I'll continue to run the 912 on Rotella Syn and see what happens.
john h
mkIII
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
> I was told at the time
> that if your engine was in good condition the Rotella was OK but if it was
> well used the Rotella would clean all the cabon out and you could end up
> with a oil burner. I also know that when we used lead fuels in our cars and
> mineral oils the sumps always had large deposits of lead in them on strip
> down.This did not happen with the Rotella.
> So I would agree with what John H is saying
> Downunder
> MK111c
> ---
This is a wives tale. I have been told this buy countless people, but its just
not true. Full synthetic oil is better, be it an old car, or a new car. If
you want to stop wear and sludge, and give the protection to your engine synthetic
oil is the best way to do it. I do not want to wear the engine in my car
that has 50,000 miles on it any more than I want to wear out a new engine.
ALL my engines get synthetic oil, new or used.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251909#251909
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
John, I don't have a dog in this fight and can only pass along what Eric
Tucker told the class at Lockwood. Semi synthetic does a better job of
keeping the lead from packing in the gearbox of the 912. It's particularly
important on the 912S with the 30 degree spacing of the drive dogs. Even
with semi synthetic Rotax recommends pulling the gearbox at 600 hours to
inspect for lead packing. Should be simple to make a "degree wheel" to check
the 30 degree spacing while you're checking drive friction torque per
SI-06-1997 Rev 1. Like I said, just passing along what I learned in class.
Rick
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 7:21 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> A thought occurred to me in regard to your unscientific test of full
>> synthetic oil vs semi-synthetic you used before. I don't know so I'm just
>> asking the question. Is it possible that Rotax recommends a semi-synthetic
>> oil when using a lot of leaded avgas because it extracts the lead and
>> intentionally deposits it in the bottom of the oil tank? Perhaps that is why
>> they don't recommend the full synthetic when using avgas because it does NOT
>> extract the lead and deposit in the bottom of the tank. Maybe the lead at
>> the bottom of the oil tank is a good thing and it not being there is a bad
>> thing.
>>
>> This is pure speculation but worth considering maybe?
>>
>> --------
>> Thom Riddle
>>
>
>
> Thom:
>
> Ideally, we want all the lead suspended in the motor oil so we can drain it
> out with the oil at scheduled changes, or sooner. I usually change sooner.
>
> If lead collects in the bottom of the oil tank, it is also collecting in
> other parts and pockets of the engine. In extreme conditions lead can block
> oil galleries and cause abnormal wear on the engine.
>
> Sludge in an engine is not lead contamination. I don't have any engines
> with sludge, except my old antique tractors that were run on nondetergent
> oil many years ago. Some of them have an inch or two of sludge on the
> bottom of the oil pan. I run Shell Rotella organic oil in everything I have
> except the 912, ATV, and dirt bike. These three run on Rotella Synthetic.
> All my engines are spotless inside except the old tractors, but they dump
> tons of crap out of them every oil change. The Rotella is working on years
> of accumulation.
>
> Recently opened up my little Kubota B6100 engine that is pushing 30 years
> old. Operated on Rotella, it was clean as a whistle.
>
> For Tony Oldman: The Rotella hasn't increased leakage or oil burning on
> any of the old tractors.
>
> Organic oil suspends lead better than synthetic oil. The reason Rotax
> recommend semi-synthetic blend when operating on 100LL is to suspend lead
> and do a better job at the 912's higher operating temps.
>
> I have operated my 912 on a 50/50 blend of Rotella and 100LL. Results were
> no better, if not as good as the results I discovered on this last flight of
> 60 hours and 300 gals of 100LL. I was pleasantly surprised at how little
> lead remained in the bottom of the oil tank. Only a trace.
>
> We have to remember that this test was conducted under long cross country
> flight conditions, a lot of flight time in a short number of days. Legs
> were generally two hours length, more or less. These conditions are quite
> different from local flying. I use mogas flying locally, but don't do much
> local flying any more.
>
> I'll continue to run the 912 on Rotella Syn and see what happens.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
I do not want to wear the engine in my car that has 50,000 miles on it any
more than I want to wear out a new engine. ALL my engines get synthetic
oil, new or used.
>
> Mike
Mike B:
Organic oil has its place. My 1992 Dodge Cummins with 356,000+ miles
pulling a 30' 5th wheel has survived on Shell Rotella dino oil.
Primary reason for running full syn in my 912 is the high operating temps.
john h
mkIII
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
Rick G:
I'm also a grad of Eric's 912 course, three times to be exact.
I remember finding lead in the gear box last time I pulled it, two years
ago. Going to pull it again real soon to reseal it. Will be a good
time to check on lead accumulation then. Also found a lot of lead
around the oil pump shaft.
Again, I am only going by what I can see during oil change. No
measurements except my own visual perception. Used to get a fair amount
of dark grey ugly stuff in the bottom of the oil tank. Last change was
a slight amount of off white material. Lots of difference to me.
Again, not trying to convince anyone to use Rotella Syn. Most
especially convince anyone to not follow Rotax instructions for
operation of their 912. Strictly sharing what I am doing.
john h
mkIII
John, I don't have a dog in this fight and can only pass along what
Eric Tucker told the class at Lockwood. Semi synthetic does a better job
of keeping the lead from packing in the gearbox of the 912. It's
particularly important on the 912S with the 30 degree spacing of the
drive dogs. Even with semi synthetic Rotax recommends pulling the
gearbox at 600 hours to inspect for lead packing. Should be simple to
make a "degree wheel" to check the 30 degree spacing while you're
checking drive friction torque per SI-06-1997 Rev 1. Like I said, just
passing along what I learned in class.
Rick
Message 7
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| Subject: | Replacing main gear tires |
Greetings, Gang,
My next question has to do with replacing my Carlisle tires. I have Matco split-rim
wheels. Do I have to split the rim to replace the tires, (seems like a lot
of work--removing the disk brake caliper and rotor, etc.) or can I pry the bead
of the tire over the rim, like you would with a bike or car?
I guess I don't know if the split rim has a diameter that will accomodate stretching
the tire bead to get it off.
Anyone have experience with this?
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251915#251915
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
John, what national chains carry that oil?
BB
On 7, Jul 2009, at 9:14 AM, John Hauck wrote:
> Rick G:
>
> I'm also a grad of Eric's 912 course, three times to be exact.
>
> I remember finding lead in the gear box last time I pulled it, two
> years ago. Going to pull it again real soon to reseal it. Will be
> a good time to check on lead accumulation then. Also found a lot
> of lead around the oil pump shaft.
>
> Again, I am only going by what I can see during oil change. No
> measurements except my own visual perception. Used to get a fair
> amount of dark grey ugly stuff in the bottom of the oil tank. Last
> change was a slight amount of off white material. Lots of
> difference to me.
>
> Again, not trying to convince anyone to use Rotella Syn. Most
> especially convince anyone to not follow Rotax instructions for
> operation of their 912. Strictly sharing what I am doing.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
> John, I don't have a dog in this fight and can only pass along what
> Eric Tucker told the class at Lockwood. Semi synthetic does a
> better job of keeping the lead from packing in the gearbox of the
> 912. It's particularly important on the 912S with the 30 degree
> spacing of the drive dogs. Even with semi synthetic Rotax
> recommends pulling the gearbox at 600 hours to inspect for lead
> packing. Should be simple to make a "degree wheel" to check the 30
> degree spacing while you're checking drive friction torque per
> SI-06-1997 Rev 1. Like I said, just passing along what I learned in
> class.
>
> Rick
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing main gear tires |
save the grief, split the rims.
BB
On 7, Jul 2009, at 9:20 AM, Watkinsdw wrote:
> <david.watkins0@gmail.com>
>
> Greetings, Gang,
> My next question has to do with replacing my Carlisle tires. I have
> Matco split-rim wheels. Do I have to split the rim to replace the
> tires, (seems like a lot of work--removing the disk brake caliper
> and rotor, etc.) or can I pry the bead of the tire over the rim,
> like you would with a bike or car?
>
> I guess I don't know if the split rim has a diameter that will
> accomodate stretching the tire bead to get it off.
>
> Anyone have experience with this?
>
> Dave
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251915#251915
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing main gear tires |
You better split the wheels.It 's not as much trouble as you might think.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Watkinsdw <david.watkins0@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 9:20 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Replacing main gear tires
Greetings, Gang,
My next question has to do with replacing my Carlisle tires. I have Matco
split-rim wheels. Do I have to split the rim to replace the tires, (seems like
a
lot of work--removing the disk brake caliper and rotor, etc.) or can I pry the
bead of the tire over the rim, like you would with a bike or car?
I guess I don't know if the split rim has a diameter that will accomodate
stretching the tire bead to get it off.
Anyone have experience with this?
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251915#251915
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Shell Rotella Full Synthetic |
Bob B:
Walmart has it for 19.00 a gal.
Another advantage on long cross country flights, I can get the Fram TG3614
oil filter and Shell Rotella Syn at Wally World, or any of the major auto p
arts houses.
john h
mkIII
John, what national chains carry that oil?
BB
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing main gear tires |
....split the rim.....anymore questions??? Next case.
chris ambrose
m3x/jab
N327CS
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing main gear tires |
Got it.
Thanks, guys.
As a matter of fact, since I posted this, I reached Matco (Andy Green). He was
very helpful and pointed me to the service manual download from their website.
They'd been closed yesterday due to the holiday.
Link to manual:
http://matco.veracart.com/pdf/MHWHEELMANUALR4.pdf?Iit=2395&Ict=23
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251940#251940
Message 14
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Hello all ! I went up again today and tried the new camera mount...it was ok,but
I am going to move it back and up to get more of a picture.
Enjoy for what it's worth!
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 33.1 hrs
N327CS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVc1YDsNMH0
I have to shorten the take off one...I will post it later....
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251974#251974
Message 15
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If you can find a wide angle lens that fits your camera, it will look like
you have moved it back a couple of feet. This shot has the camera mounted
beside my head attached under the cross bar of the gap seal. It also makes
the video look a little more like you see it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7008845811094869981
At 02:03 PM 7/7/2009, you wrote:
>
>Hello all ! I went up again today and tried the new camera
>mount...it was ok,but I am going to move it back and up to get more
>of a picture.
>Enjoy for what it's worth!
>
>chris ambrose
>M3X/Jab 33.1 hrs
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