Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:52 AM - Re: Rudder springs (ronlee)
2. 07:32 AM - Re: Firestars in production (Don G)
3. 08:45 AM - Re: Rudder springs (JetPilot)
4. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Rudder springs (John Hauck)
5. 09:30 AM - Re: New Camera (JetPilot)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: throttle cable greensky (JetPilot)
7. 09:47 AM - Re: throttle cable greensky (Thom Riddle)
8. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: throttle cable greensky (frank.goodnight)
9. 10:53 AM - Re: throttle cable greensky (Thom Riddle)
10. 11:24 AM - Re: throttle cable greensky (lucien)
11. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: throttle cable greensky (John Hauck)
12. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: throttle cable greensky (frank.goodnight)
13. 12:12 PM - Re: throttle cable greensky (Thom Riddle)
14. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: throttle cable greensky (John Hauck)
15. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: throttle cable greensky (zeprep251@aol.com)
16. 06:52 PM - Re: throttle cable greensky (Arksey@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder springs |
Sounds like a design problem. Has anyone tried VGs on the rudder?
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254089#254089
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| Subject: | Re: Firestars in production |
Kevin,
The FireFly might be a little snug for you in fit. Kinda depends on how nimble
you are. Getting in and out would be the main issue possibly. It has a higher
step over than a Firestar, and a bigger fella kinda "plops" down when getting
in..getting out is a little tougher due to the high side of the cockpit. As far
as performance though...if you build one and dont get it extra heavy..shouldn't
bother performance much..since the FireFly is about the highest performing
part 103 legal plane you can get. IF you are young and bend pretty good...I cant
imagine it bothering you any. If you are older and stiffer...I think I would
go for a FireStar. Just my opinion as a FireFly builder.
Also..IF TNK still sells the FireFly kit with the main spar a little longer than
it calls for and requires it to be cut..I believe I would order an extra set
of ribs and build the wing a tad longer to match the spar...and install Firestar
struts. this would compensate somewhat for the extra drag of the slightly
longer wing and give a little better load capability. If you ever get one...let
me know and we can discuss it when you have the plans and parts in hand.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254108#254108
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder springs |
Dana,
Your idea of completing the rudder circuit with pulleys and a cable is a good one.
I have seen that system used on another aircraft with good results. As
you suspect, you will need a heavy compression spring like you would find on a
tailwheel to go between the short cable between the rudder pedals, this will
keep your cable tension constant and will compensate for the small changes in
geometry as you deflect the rudder pedals... I really like this system as it
keep the rudder cables properly tensioned with zero centering force, so the rudder
pedals can be easily moved to each stop and the only feedback you get are
due to the air loads, just as it should be ;) Remember this system is something
from another airplane type, but it is good design, works well, and is what
I would do if I was trying to improve a Kolb.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254122#254122
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder springs |
Remember this system is something from another airplane type, but it is
good design, works well, and is what I would do if I was trying to improve a
Kolb.
>
> Mike
Mike B/Gang:
The reason I shared with the Kolb List the way I have my rudder pedals set
up was because it works well, it has been thoroughly tested over many long
hours sitting in the pilots seat, and it is a very simple fix. Add a couple
heavy rudder pedal springs to what you already have and...BINGO!!! you have
the problem solved.
No need to install a rudder counterbalance weight system, or a complicated
cable and pulley system. My philosophy is KISS, keep it simple.
However, I know there are folks on the List that like to experiment as much
as I do. So...maybe you all can reinvent a better wheel. ;-)
BTW: My system does not progressively load up the rudder pedals, even
though the engineers on the List will argue with me on that point. All 4
springs are stretched in the neutral position. Full pedal deflection
sitting still on the ground has no more resistance than the standard Kolb
soft rudder pedal springs.
The large rudder trim tab works perfectly, keeping the slip/skid ball
centered at all cruise speeds. I challenge the perfectionist to measure the
amount of inefficiency produced by this system over twisting the engine
every which a way. Even if it costs a few cents more to fly my mkIII the
way it is configured, by God it works, and it works good. I fly for fun.
I think I'll keep my systems for now.
john h
mkIII
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Great job on the videos Larry !!! I love the helmet cam view, its so good I am
going to modify a bicycle helmet to put my camera on for next time I fly my
Kolb.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254127#254127
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
I like the fail - open throttle setup that the 912 uses, is there any easy way
to do the same thing on a Rotax 503 ???
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254128#254128
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
Mike,
The Bing 54 carbs have springs in the cup that apply pressure toward the closed
throttle position. These springs are internal to the carb. The only way I can
imagine making this carb go to full open when the cable breaks is to have a stronger
external spring arrangement of some sort. If you could rig this sort of
thing then the throttle cable would have to push (toward closed position) rather
than pull toward open position. A pushing throttle cable should be (as I
said before) a solid wire type rather than the flexible wire rope type for pulling.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254130#254130
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
Hi Thom,
Rotax has all the parts to make the carb so the engine will go to full
power if the pull cable breaks . they cost about $250 this will be the
way I'll go if all else fails . I will take my carb off and get it in
the shop so I can
play with it and see what I can figure out. I can't think of any
reason not to use a solid wire type if that turns out to be the best
way to go.
I'm sending this info to everyone that I know that flys a HKS.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar2
HKS
Brownsville TX
On Jul 21, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> The Bing 54 carbs have springs in the cup that apply pressure toward
> the closed throttle position. These springs are internal to the
> carb. The only way I can imagine making this carb go to full open
> when the cable breaks is to have a stronger external spring
> arrangement of some sort. If you could rig this sort of thing then
> the throttle cable would have to push (toward closed position)
> rather than pull toward open position. A pushing throttle cable
> should be (as I said before) a solid wire type rather than the
> flexible wire rope type for pulling.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from
> a simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254130#254130
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
Frank,
That is news to me, but I learn something everyday, so that is good thing. Can
you point us to the kit that does this reversal, hopefully with diagrams or photos
of what it all looks like?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254147#254147
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
JetPilot wrote:
> I like the fail - open throttle setup that the 912 uses, is there any easy way
to do the same thing on a Rotax 503 ???
>
> Mike
I'd like this less on the 2-strokes than I already dislike it on the 912 ;). A
likely failure if the cable isn't made right is at the ferrule on the end where
it fits into the stop in the slide. If the ferrule comes off, there's a good
change it'll pop into the engine through the intake. You'd be looking at the
ol' "sudden stoppage" there anyway.......
A good normally-closed installation I've seen on one of the local trikes involves
threading the cable housing vertically through the hole in the carb housing
right above the area of the throttle arm. This hole is threaded, presumeably
specifically for this purpose. The normal throttle arm is replaced with a different
one with the hole on the other side (I suppose you could reuse the one that's
on there stock, but I don't see a good way to attach the spring without
mods and the hole is bizarrely too big to put a swivel in). Then a cable swivel
is attached through the hole in the replacement arm and the spring attaches
onto the arm underneath.
As I've said, if it weren't major surgery on my plane involving a complete overhaul
of the whole throttle system, I'd convert mine over in 2 seconds without
a second thought.....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254150#254150
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
> That is news to me, but I learn something everyday, so that is good thing.
> Can you point us to the kit that does this reversal, hopefully with
> diagrams or photos of what it all looks like?
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
Thom:
If I remember correctly, RANS has shipped their 912 engine with "pull open"
throttle system. Seems they flip flop the throttle lever, and... cable and
spring positions. Also where the cable housing mounts. May be a little
more to it than that, but that is the way I remember it.
However, I have always been a fan of "spring loaded to wide open" in case of
cable failure. I once broke a throttle lever on short final into my
confined grass strip at night (pitch black). The spring loaded to wide open
throttle assisted me in rotating what was left of the throttle control (the
flat plate) for enough power to nurse the mkIII out of the black hole and
back to 08A for a safe dead stick landing with runway lights.
john h
mkIII
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
Thom,
All the info I have came from the post by Richard Girard of july 20 .
It calls out the part numbers and nomenclature.
He is going to try and get more info from bing. I'm sure this is of
interest to anyone who flys a HKS.
I talked to Frank Porter today ,Frank is the engine importer. He is
going to get in touch with the factory and see if they will make the
change there. It won't help those of
us that already have an engine but it would help people in the future.
ps Richard will let us know what he finds out. If I can find a easy
(cheap) way I'll post it.
Frank Goodnight
On Jul 21, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> That is news to me, but I learn something everyday, so that is good
> thing. Can you point us to the kit that does this reversal,
> hopefully with diagrams or photos of what it all looks like?
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
> http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from
> a simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254147#254147
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
John,
I've seen some 912 installations with the pull-open-with-cable and spring close,
and that is pretty simple to do but I agree with you that the full open in fail
mode is preferable, like most 912 installations. What I would not like is
for one of the two cables to break on the carb side of the splitter. This would
be 1/2 engine full throttle and the other 1/2 not, unless the pilot gave it
full throttle too. Zenith uses a single throttle cable to operate a rigid lever
are that moves both carb throttle arms simultaneously. As long as the engine
does not move much under torque loads, this is a good design, in my opinion.
It makes mechanical carb synching simple too.
If I remember correctly, the question was about a 503 with Bing 54 carbs.... i.e.
how do you rig them to spring open when a cable breaks? Someone said that Rotax
makes a rig for doing just that. I'd like to see it and how it works.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254159#254159
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
> If I remember correctly, the question was about a 503 with Bing 54
carbs.... i.e. how do you rig them to spring open when a cable breaks?
Someone said that Rotax makes a rig for doing just that. I'd like to see it
and how it works.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
Never heard of it.
Inspect and change out cable periodically and it shouldn't be necessary.
The two stroke carbs are much more involved, to reverse, than the 4 stroke.
john h
mkIII
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
Mike,
? No.
-----Original Message-----
From: JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:33 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: throttle cable greensky
I like the fail - open throttle setup that the 912 uses, is there any easy way
to do the same thing on a Rotax 503 ???
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254128#254128
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable greensky |
when i got my firestar it had no throttle stop, I felt this could put to
much pressure on the throttle cable when going to full throttle so i made
one and installed it, makes me feel better....just a thought on what may have
caused the problem..
do not archive
JIM SWAN
firestar ll, 503, N663S
Eaton Rapids, Mi.
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