---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/29/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:39 AM - Re: Picking up my new wings (william sullivan) 2. 04:08 AM - Re: Power loss (Mike Welch) 3. 05:49 AM - Re: Power loss (Thom Riddle) 4. 06:42 AM - Re: Power loss (william sullivan) 5. 07:58 AM - Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins (JetPilot) 6. 11:18 AM - Re: Power loss (b young) 7. 11:43 AM - Re: Power loss (Thom Riddle) 8. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins (russ kinne) 9. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Picking up my new wings (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 10. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: Power loss (Dana Hague) 11. 05:27 PM - Re: Picking up my new wings (william sullivan) 12. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins (Larry Cottrell) 13. 08:39 PM - Re: Re: Power loss (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:23 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Picking up my new wings - Ellery- How did the trip go?- Did you get it?- How does it look? - ------------------------- ------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct .. ------------------------- ------------------- FS 447 do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:45 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Power loss Dana=2C I have experienced similar situations you described twice (not being ab le to get full throttle). Although I can't say if every one of my "symptoms" were identical to yours. It seems safe to initially assume you have a fuel problem. Both of my ex amples were fuel related. They were=3B A) accidently cocked open the fuel strainer petcock on pre-flight inspect ion=2C allowing air to suck in at higher power setttings=2C reducing rpm to idle (at climb-out!!) B) a little chunk of debris in the fuel tank that would occationally plu g the exit hole=2C reducing rpm to idle (at climb-out=2C too!!) If I had these occur again=2C I'd check for air leakage in "A" by sprayin g carb cleaner lightly around the entire fuel system=2C listening for any r pm increase. Next=2C I would thoroughly clean EVERY inch of the fuel system=2C to incl ude complete disassembly if necessary. From the tank to the pistons=2C I'd make sure it was spotless. When I'm faced with cleaning a carburetor that I suspect is contaminated =2C I clean it over a pristine cloth (after scrubbing the outside=2C first! ). That way=2C if any crap lands on it=2C I know it came from inside the c arb. For me=2C I like to know if I may have found the culprit. Best of luck=2C Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Power loss From: "Thom Riddle" Dana, Carb ice is one of those things that is difficult to prove was the cause but your description of the problem makes me believe that is a high probability, even on these carbs. The fact that it seems to have been transient contributes to that guess. BUT Mike is right to recommend a thorough inspection of the entire fuel delivery system. If nothing abnormal is found, then that too adds to the probability of carb ice being the cause. Fuel delivery problems kill a lot of aviators. Be as sure as you can before you fly again. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255087#255087 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:18 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Power loss - Dana- I don't know much about aircraft carbs, but I have had two older trucks that had occassional carb ice.- One was a 1980 Chevy van, with a s traight six.- The manifold heat tube arrangement had rotted off, and it w ould ice up and go to just about an idle.- After sitting by the side of t he road for a few minutes, idling, it would melt the ice and return to norm al.- Cardboard over the radiator solved it.- The outside of the carb wa s wet with condensation.- Same thing with a 1951 Dodge M-37.- It would head for an idle, and sometimes pulling the choke out for a second would ca use it to swallow the ice.- Wet carb exterior again.-Cardboard, again. -The Dodge would also get vapor locked on a hot day.- Poured cold water on the fuel pump, and it would run.- No exterior moisture when vapor loc ked. - Considering our weather lately (Dana is 30 miles south of me, in the sa me river valley), it sounds like carb ice.- Very humid for quite a while, now.- I don't know about the Mikuni, but a Bing doesn't have a true chok e- no way to manually increase carb vacuum and shake out the ice like was p ossible with the Dodge.- I can't think of a way to duplicate the conditio ns on the ground- maybe somebody else can.- Good luck, and be careful. - ------------------------- ------------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------ FS 447 Hot, overcast, and very humid again. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:46 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins From: "JetPilot" I would like to see Larry with a new High Definition camera !!! The videos are great, but the quality of the videos does not do the incredible terrain out there justice. Here are are a couple pictures of the top of mountains that Larry took, look at the altimeter, 10,000 feet [Shocked] The terrain is always steeper than it looks in a picture... I would love to do some flying in a place like that, South Florida is the most incredibly flat place on earth. There is not a single hill, not even a 10 foot natural rise within 100 miles of me :( So its all on Larry, thanks for the videos and pictures and look forward to more. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255098#255098 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbaerialoregonmountainsteens2009_208.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbaerialoregonmountainbigindian2009_106.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:34 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Power loss After a while (as I was, of course, gliding back to the airport) the rpm's picked up, first to around 4000, then back to normal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. 80 deg on the ground... at 2000 ft the air temp should have been around 70 or so. That is kind of the high side for carb ice,,,, when lowering back to ground level the temp would go back to 80 and that should have been warm enough to melt the ice out. This may be an explanation of why the rpm came back. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Power loss From: "Thom Riddle" Carb ice is actually quite possible in high humidity conditions at 80F. See attached jpg image of a carb icing chart. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255128#255128 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/carb_icing_chart_620.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:42 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins Mike Larry's pix may "not do the incredible terrain justice" but they're pretty darned good. Esp. now that he's not shooting thru plastic. The quality is certainly more than adequate. Anyone who does shoot thru the windscreen might consider laying a piece of black cloth or thin black felt over the panel & his thighs -- this will eliminate reflections. Simple cheap, effective. Russ K ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Picking up my new wings From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Well I met the seller in North Caroliner a 6 Hour wait in the hot sun. He?opened the door on the trailer? and there was damage to the nose cone because the battery was not secured? properly in the plane and it burnt off one of the rudder cable springs as well Then the tires on the trailer wer all sun baked with cracks all over them? well Now I have replaced the 4 trailer tires on my way back home? ?I have some changes to do to the airplane I dont like switches all over the cabin area in all directions ?the fuel tank is not big enough for me with the kind of flying I like to do ?the x owner and his wife tried to make me feel second class I thought I brought a Certified Bank check made out to him like I told him I was going to do because I was not willing to travel through some of the areas that I needed to with that much cash Even?the guy in his?bank branch I thought was a complete a-hole like I had stolen the check somewhere and ?him wanting my drivers license and signature when all the lazy sob needed to do was Call my bank? and get it verified I guess I should have only waited a couple hours in the hot sun and called it a great ride and went back home with no regrets and waited to buy something with the powerplant I really wanted ?but in a few weeks I will be flying I guess Ellery in Maine -----Original Message----- From: william sullivan Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 6:38 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Picking up my new wings ? Ellery- How did the trip go?? Did you get it?? How does it look? ? ???????????????????????????????????????????? Bill Sullivan ???????????????????????????????????????????? Windsor Locks, Ct. ???????????????????????????????????????????? FS 447 do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:45 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Power loss It _does_ sound like carb icing. I hesitate to say that because I chased carb ice on one other hot humid day and the problem turned out to be jetting related, and carb ice is nearly impossible to prove... but conditions were certainly right... 80F on the ground, chilly and 99.9% RH at 2000' where I was flying at low cruise power. I now think the jet change I did right before had nothing to do with it, just a coincidence. I don't think my fuel system was the culprit as it's in good shape, with two separate tanks feeding the first stage fuel strainer, which has a large outlet screen (nearly impossible to plug) feeding the line to the main filter... and clear fuel line and filter (sorry John H.) so I can see any bubbles. I really wish I'd thought to look at the fuel pressure gauge when it was happening. -Dana -- He's dead, Jim. Grab his tricorder and his wallet. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:14 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Picking up my new wings - Ellery- Mine turned out to be not quite as advertised, but the guy did wait at the house for cash when he delivered.-Mine also took damage in tr ansit- about 4 holes in the wings.-I am doing the same thing while rebuil ding- going over it inch by inch.- Good luck, and keep us posted on progr ess. - do not archive ------------------------- ----------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ----------------------- Winds or Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ----------------------- FS 44 7 ------------------------- ----------------------- (havi ng fun doing it) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:08 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins The problem is not the camera, it is the medium that it is copied to. Although I can see that dropping mine did not do either the color balance or the lens any good. The new one should be here Friday. I am going to make a trip to 3 Forks and shoot some video coming this way with the sun at my back. After that There is only the possibility of reruns, stuff that you have seen before. I may redo the trip down the Crooked creek drainage and perhaps down the canyon again that I did with the camera on my hat. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: JetPilot To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:58 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Camera, Owyhee Ramblins I would like to see Larry with a new High Definition camera !!! The videos are great, but the quality of the videos does not do the incredible terrain out there justice. Here are are a couple pictures of the top of mountains that Larry took, look at the altimeter, 10,000 feet [Shocked] The terrain is always steeper than it looks in a picture... I would love to do some flying in a place like that, South Florida is the most incredibly flat place on earth. There is not a single hill, not even a 10 foot natural rise within 100 miles of me :( So its all on Larry, thanks for the videos and pictures and look forward to more. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255098#255098 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbaerialoregonmountainsteens2009_208 .jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbaerialoregonmountainbigindian2009_ 106.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07/28/09 17:58:00 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Power loss From: Richard Girard Dana, If you know someone who has a copy of the Rotax Heavy Maintenance Manual for the 462-532-582 series engines you might want to check out chapter 10. It discusses a series of things to check for just the symptoms your engine exhibits. The chapter originally appeared as an article written by Nigel Beale of Cyclone Hovercraft of England. Pat may know of him and be able to tell you where a copy of the article can be found on the web. Rick Girard do not archive On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > > It _does_ sound like carb icing. I hesitate to say that because I chased > carb ice on one other hot humid day and the problem turned out to be jetting > related, and carb ice is nearly impossible to prove... but conditions were > certainly right... 80F on the ground, chilly and 99.9% RH at 2000' where I > was flying at low cruise power. I now think the jet change I did right > before had nothing to do with it, just a coincidence. > > I don't think my fuel system was the culprit as it's in good shape, with > two separate tanks feeding the first stage fuel strainer, which has a large > outlet screen (nearly impossible to plug) feeding the line to the main > filter... and clear fuel line and filter (sorry John H.) so I can see any > bubbles. I really wish I'd thought to look at the fuel pressure gauge when > it was happening. > > -Dana > -- > He's dead, Jim. Grab his tricorder and his wallet. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.