Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (Richard Girard)
2. 06:11 AM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (robert bean)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (lucien)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Trip to 3 Forks (chris davis)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (John Hauck)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (b young)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (Richard Girard)
8. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Weight & Balance for certification of Mark3x (Mike Welch)
9. 12:23 PM - Oil cooler leak, maybe not so much (Richard Girard)
10. 01:54 PM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (lucien)
11. 02:36 PM - Re: Freak accident (Dave Kulp)
12. 02:41 PM - Re: Freak accident (Dave Kulp)
13. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (Richard Girard)
14. 06:42 PM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (lucien)
15. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (robert bean)
16. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (possums)
17. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (possums)
Message 1
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| Subject: | W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
I figured I'd just roll all the topics up into a single heading. Some
interesting claims are being thrown around and all the RE:'s make it too
hard to comment otherwise.
"you will never full stall land that airplane....at least not without
slamming the mains on the ground"
Chris, Sure you can. All you have to do is hold it off and get it slow
enough. Any aircraft can be slowed enough so that it's vertical and
horizontal velocity vectors reach the critical stall AOA. When you practice
approach stalls that's exactly what you're doing. The aircraft isn't at some
high angle relative to the horizon, it's nearly flat, but its vertical
velocity becomes such that the critical stall angle is reached.
The assumption in this statement is that the speed will be such that the
angle increases to the point that the tail wheel hits first, the wing stalls
and whammo.
"When I position the aircraft at 9 deg. for W & B calculations.....surely
this isn't level flight attitude"
Depends on what speed the aircraft is travelling. Remember level flight is
about having a balance between lift and weight. As long as they're balanced
you maintain altitude. If the balance changes you either climb or sink.
You can run the numbers for dynamic pressure ( rho*V squared / 2 ) and
multiply that times the lift coefficient (which is calculated at angle of
attack) and the wing area to get lift in lbs. Conversely you can run the
numbers to find at what speed you'll have enough lift for level flight or at
what lift coefficient (angle of attack dependent, remember) is needed for a
given speed.
So, you plug in all the numbers based upon the data for the NACA 66 airfoil
(my pick as it is very close to the Kolb airfoil (see Handbook of Airfoil
Sections for Light Aircraft by M.S. Rice)), and at 60 miles per hour at a
lift coefficient of .95 (AOA 9 degrees) you find the wing of a Mk III
producing about 750 lb. of lift.
Say, isn't that about what a Mk III with a 190 lb. pilot and full fuel (60
lb.) weighs?
Bob, yep that 9 degrees is about cruise AOA for a Mk III.
Rick
Addendum, I didn't just pick the numbers out of thin air, pardon the pun.
Remember the original Mk III was powered by a 503 Rotax and that 60 mph
cruise is about right. John H, you flew that aircraft a bunch, didn't you?
I've always assumed that's you in the factory video. Is that a good TLAR
cruise number?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
On 6, Aug 2009, at 8:44 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> So, you plug in all the numbers based upon the data for the NACA 66
> airfoil (my pick as it is very close to the Kolb airfoil (see
> Handbook of Airfoil Sections for Light Aircraft by M.S. Rice)), and
> at 60 miles per hour at a lift coefficient of .95 (AOA 9 degrees)
> you find the wing of a Mk III producing about 750 lb. of lift.
> Say, isn't that about what a Mk III with a 190 lb. pilot and full
> fuel (60 lb.) weighs?
My tubby scow weighs over 600# empty (been a while since I weighed it
and there is MORE crap on it now)
The wings are clipped a foot on each end and by some magic (wires
maybe?) it will fly at 50 mph and maybe less.
BB, 170 lbs + average 40 lbs fuel
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I figured I'd just roll all the topics up into a single heading. Some interesting
claims are being thrown around and all the RE:'s make it too hard to comment
otherwise.
>
> "you will never full stall land that airplane....at least not without slamming
the mains on the ground"
>
>
> Chris, Sure you can. All you have to do is hold it off and get it slow enough.
Any aircraft can be slowed enough so that it's vertical and horizontal velocity
vectors reach the critical stall AOA. When you practice approach stalls that's
exactly what you're doing. The aircraft isn't at some high angle relative
to the horizon, it's nearly flat, but its vertical velocity becomes such that
the critical stall angle is reached.
>
Don't understand how this follows.
Stall is determined by angle of attack, NOT airspeed.
If the AOA remains above the critical AOA, the wing will NOT stall. The airspeed
may drop below that needed to insure enough lift is generated to overcome gravity,
but that has nothing to do with _stall_.
When you practice approach stalls you're toying with the maximum amount of lift
that the wing can generate at a given airspeed. What you eventually discover
is that the max lift that can be generated is not enough at too low of an airspeed
and you continue to increase AOA to compensate - you exceed the critical
AOA and you stall.
Can't remember when stall became determined by airspeed. I must have been out to
lunch when that law of physics was changed......
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256328#256328
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trip to 3 Forks |
Rick ,Thanks for the reply , I guess I just missed TNK There was so much to
see and learn but I was looking for TNK just to say hello and get updated
on what they were up to .It was in whole a great show and we enjoyed it a l
ot but the ultralight field was EMPTY No venders no aircraft all we saw was
a few heleos an about 4 ultralight type venders=0A. When we finally found
the LSA displays it became apparent that they wernt flying and that was wha
t was most of the action at the Sun&Fun. ultralight field this spring as th
ere are very few Qualifying part 103 aircraft accept for the-"Firefly" an
d a couple of flying lawnchair type ultralights. Perhaps- it just a sign
of the times. Thanks Chris=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: Richard & Martha Neilsen <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>=0ATo: kolb-list@matron
ics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 8:25:47 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-Li
st: Re: Trip to 3 Forks=0A=0A=0AChris=0A-=0ATNK had a display near the ve
ndor buildings way up by the main entrance. =0A-=0AThe guys on the ultral
ight field were a bit more friendly this year. I was told that a fuel truck
filled up some planes and no one was yelled at. Also no one was pushing pe
ople to pay camping fees. Its going to take some time to--undo the bad
reputation they earned..... in past years.=0A-=0ARick Neilsen=0ARedrive V
W powered MKIIIC=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: chris davis =0A>T
o: kolb-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:38 AM=0A>Su
bject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Trip to 3 Forks=0A>=0A>=0A>Ralph B , Hi ,Did you
find the "Farm" at Oshkosh to be- as disapointing as I did? Did you see T
NK any where ? John Hauck told me that they havent been on the ultralight f
ield for a couple years but I didnt find them anywhere-!Just checking to
see if my wife and I are blind. Chris=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A_______________________
_________=0AFrom: Ralph B <ul15rhb@juno.com>=0A>To: kolb-list@matronics.com
=0A>Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 11:01:22 AM=0A>Subject: Kolb-List: Re: T
uno.com>=0A>=0A>=0A>> "I had forgotten to turn off the HACman system and th
e engine was- leaning out and dying."=0A>>- =0A>> Larry=0A>=0A>=0A>Larr
y, What is the "HACman system". Is it the carb heat?=0A>=0A>Ralph=0A>=0A>--
------=0A>Ralph B=0A>Original Firestar 447=0A>N91493 E-AB=0A>22 years flyin
g it=0A>Kolbra 912UL=0A>N20386=0A>1 year flying it=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read
this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
=255502#255502 =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listhref=
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="http:/
==============0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
Richard:
Yes, I flew the test time off the original MKIII powered with a 582.
I don't remember what the cruise speed, at 5800 rpm, was for "Fat
Albert". Been too long ago.
Homer's designs, after the Ultrastar, emphasized safety for low time
pilots. Therefore, the aircraft sat nearly level on the ground with
most of the weight on the mains. This did several things:
1-Made those airplanes very easy to handle taildraggers.
2-Required pilots to land and takeoff at higher airspeeds to reduce the
chance of inadvertent stall. That is why the tailwheel hits first when
one attempts to do a full stall landing. That is why all my Kolbs,
except the Ultrastar, had longer than standard gear legs to put them
into a good 3 point stance.
3-Required the wings be rigged with more angle of attack so we could
take off and land in a nearly level attitude, and to prevent the tail
from sagging to the extreme when doing slow flight. It also slows the
cruise speed because of additional drag of pulling the tailboom through
the air sideways. The Sling Shot will really sag in the tail when
slowed down because is has a lot less incidence than the MKIII and FS.
john h
mkIII
Addendum, I didn't just pick the numbers out of thin air, pardon the
pun. Remember the original Mk III was powered by a 503 Rotax and that 60
mph cruise is about right. John H, you flew that aircraft a bunch,
didn't you? I've always assumed that's you in the factory video. Is that
a good TLAR cruise number?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
Can't remember when stall became determined by airspeed. I must have been
out to lunch when that law of physics was changed......
LS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well,,,,,, in a 1 g maneuver the critical angle of attack will be very
predictable when using the asi. Change the g loading of the wing and the
numbers will start to move around a bit. And in high g loading it will move
more than a bit,,, lets say a bunch.
Boyd
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
Lucien, Look in any aircraft POH, do they tell you stall angle or stall
speed? It's apples and pears, but they're still fruit. How many GA aircraft
have AOA indicators? They ALL have airspeed indicators.
Yes, stalls happen when an airfoil reaches about 13 to 16 degrees angle of
attack, but in actual flight they reach those angles at certain
corresponding airspeeds. We fly approach speeds, rotation speeds, cruise
speeds, and on and on.
Rick
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:46 AM, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> > I figured I'd just roll all the topics up into a single heading. Some
> interesting claims are being thrown around and all the RE:'s make it too
> hard to comment otherwise.
> >
> > "you will never full stall land that airplane....at least not without
> =EF=BDslamming the mains on the ground"
> >
> >
> > Chris, Sure you can. All you have to do is hold it off and get it slow
> enough. Any aircraft can be slowed enough so that it's vertical and
> horizontal velocity vectors reach the critical stall AOA. When you practi
ce
> approach stalls that's exactly what you're doing. The aircraft isn't at s
ome
> high angle relative to the horizon, it's nearly flat, but its vertical
> velocity becomes such that the critical stall angle is reached.=EF=BD
> >
>
>
> Don't understand how this follows.
>
> Stall is determined by angle of attack, NOT airspeed.
>
> If the AOA remains above the critical AOA, the wing will NOT stall. The
> airspeed may drop below that needed to insure enough lift is generated to
> overcome gravity, but that has nothing to do with _stall_.
>
> When you practice approach stalls you're toying with the maximum amount o
f
> lift that the wing can generate at a given airspeed. What you eventually
> discover is that the max lift that can be generated is not enough at too
low
> of an airspeed and you continue to increase AOA to compensate - you excee
d
> the critical AOA and you stall.
>
> Can't remember when stall became determined by airspeed. I must have been
> out to lunch when that law of physics was changed......
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256328#256328
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance for certification of Mark3x |
John=2C
I have done some research on this subject=2C and have some thoughts=2C to
o. They will have to wait till this evening=2C tho=2C when I have more tim
e......I've just came in for a work break (from building my house).
More later....
Mike Welch
MkIII
From: JRatcli256@aol.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Weight & Balance for certification of Mark3x
Photos of earlier models of the Mark3x show the bottom front of the wing se
t above the tubing at the top of the windshield and the front top of the ho
rz. stabilizer at the top of the boom tube. What the angles are=2C I don't
know.
For that reason=2C what attitude that puts the aircraft in when the wing is
at 9 deg. for W&B calculations=2C I don't know. It may be in level flight
attitude. Also the horz. stabilizer may be level ??? Can someone supply th
e angles for reference ?
My Mark3x=2C with the engine mount level --- Wing incidence is +2.8 deg. (F
ront bottom of wing is about 3" below the top of the windshield tubing bow)
=2C the horz stabilizer is at -4.8 deg. ( the bottom of the front tube of
the stabilizer 1/4" above centerline of the boom tube). I think these chang
es were made to help alleviate the problem of "Kolb Quit"
When I position the aircraft at 9 deg. for W&B calculations=2C the attitude
appears to me=2C to be in a three point landing attitude with the tail whe
el about 5" above the floor.
Surely this isn't level flight attitude.
If I put the horz. stabilizer level=2C that puts the bottom of the wing at
-2 deg.
Because of the change in wing and horz. stabilizer incidences=2C wouldn't t
hat change the angle of the wing for W&B calculations ?
Again your thoughts ???
John Ratcliffe
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR
_sync:082009
Message 9
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| Subject: | Oil cooler leak, maybe not so much |
It appears after disassembly that the oil cooler may be leaking at the
fitting rather than at some undiscovered crack. I've looked with 20X
magnifiers all around the base of the fitting where I thought the crack
might be, but nada. The seal surface of the welded on 10JIC fitting however
does seem to have an area of very limited contact view with the same
magnifiers. Of course the welded in fitting keeps me from just getting a new
fitting.Some blame may be laid on the vibration damper that the oil cooler
shared with the muffler mount. As you can see from the pic, the spring that
should connect the two steel mounts on each side of the rubber donut isn't.
I can't find any evidence that there was ever a weld. The exhaust system
kept the whole thing hanging together and hid the failure until I started
disassembling things. I'll be looking for a through bolt kind of mount for
this application and redo the oil cooler mount to use the Rotax radiator
damper.
Rather than replace the oil cooler right now, I may try one of the Locktite
miracle products to seal it until a better quality oil cooler. My gripe with
the Mocal unit is A: fittings that can't be replaced and B: powder coating a
device intended to dissipate heat means they have either too strong a
marketing dept or idiots in the engineering dept. MHO.
So, if anyone knows of a specific product that would fix this leak, please
forward. I've had good luck with the Locktite weld porosity sealer before
and I'll use it again unless someone clues me into something better.
Rick Girard
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Lucien, Look in any aircraft POH, do they tell you stall angle or stall speed?
It's apples and pears, but they're still fruit.How many GA aircraft have AOA
indicators? They ALL have airspeed indicators.
> Yes, stalls happen when an airfoil reaches about 13 to 16 degrees angle of attack,
but in actual flight they reach those angles at certain corresponding airspeeds.
We fly approach speeds, rotation speeds, cruise speeds, and on and on.
>
>
> Rick
>
That doesn't change the fact that stall is not determined by airspeed, but only
AOA of the main wing.
The stall airspeeds listed in POH's are those that happen under steady state conditions
of flight with a particular loading, where there's a reasonably reliable
correspondence between airspeed and where the critical AOA is reached or exceeded
to maintain that steady state condition.
You'll notice all this with stall airspeed changes when you add weight to the plane,
or are in a mode of flight where you're pulling more G's, etc.
but the AOA at which the wing stalls doesn't change. That's the key to avoiding
(or achieving) a stall, not airspeed.
Sorry guys, but I don't think any of this has ever changed (or ever will ;))......
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256407#256407
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Freak accident |
**
> What did the tool look like, how did it work?
>
> -Dana
Not easy to explain and describe. Wish I had a photo of it.
The tool was made in two parts of 4130 tubing, cut at a long gentle angle,
catty-corner long ways from end to end. Sheet metal faces were then welded
to both cut sides. A steel rod was welded to each piece of the tool.
The tool was inserted into the inboard end of the leading edge tube, one
piece at a time. The two beveled pieces were then pulled together forcing
the dent out.
The split pieces allowed the user to insert the tool past the rivets.
john h
mkIII
Great explanation, John. Very easy to picture. Ever considered writing as a career???
Now, if you know where one of these is hiding...
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
**
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Freak accident |
Thanks to all contributors for your ideas for fixing the LE dent. I
surely appreciate them all and I'll bet there are
some others on the list who do, too.
Dave Kulp
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
No argument. It's a great text book truth that gets translated into
practical use by making the translation to a speed to fly.The point was that
stall angle is related to the relative wind, not the ground. You can slow up
an aircraft, even the Kolb with it's Dorf gear legs, and get a full stall
landing in a level attitude in relation to the ground, you don't have to
bang the tailwheel down followed by a great impact on the mains.
Rick
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> > Lucien, Look in any aircraft POH, do they tell you stall angle or stall
> speed? It's apples and pears, but they're still fruit. How many GA aircraft
> have AOA indicators? They ALL have airspeed indicators.
> > Yes, stalls happen when an airfoil reaches about 13 to 16 degrees angle
> of attack, but in actual flight they reach those angles at certain
> corresponding airspeeds. We fly approach speeds, rotation speeds, cruise
> speeds, and on and on.
> >
> >
> > Rick
> >
>
>
> That doesn't change the fact that stall is not determined by airspeed, but
> only AOA of the main wing.
>
> The stall airspeeds listed in POH's are those that happen under steady
> state conditions of flight with a particular loading, where there's a
> reasonably reliable correspondence between airspeed and where the critical
> AOA is reached or exceeded to maintain that steady state condition.
>
> You'll notice all this with stall airspeed changes when you add weight to
> the plane, or are in a mode of flight where you're pulling more G's, etc.
> but the AOA at which the wing stalls doesn't change. That's the key to
> avoiding (or achieving) a stall, not airspeed.
>
> Sorry guys, but I don't think any of this has ever changed (or ever will
> ;))......
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256407#256407
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
> No argument. It's a great text book truth that gets translated into practical
use by making the translation to a speed to fly.The point was that stall angle
is related to the relative wind, not the ground. You can slow up an aircraft,
even the Kolb with it's Dorf gear legs, and get a full stall landing in a level
attitude in relation to the ground, you don't have to bang the tailwheel down
followed by a great impact on the mains.
>
>
> Rick
>
FWIW, It has always surprised me how much argument I get against this, an amazing
number of folks insist that airspeed is really what determines stall and I
mean they push back on me _hard_ when I tell them it's not.
Most probably don't see why they can fly their planes just fine with completely
inop ASI's or avoid stalls in steep turns etc. where ASI's are useless. It's
because they already have the skill of AOA control in their skill sets, but I
get loads of pushback when I say this too for mysterious reasons, guys simply
just don't believe me.
As for full stalls in the Kolb, I was never able to do very good full stall landings
in my FSII, but I could get really close in calm conditions. I always seemed
to run out of up elevator before I could achieve a stall in a 3-point attitude.
But I did achieve it a couple of times.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256446#256446
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
Probably a good 1/3 of my "landings are plunkers. The grass is long
and cushiony and since no one is watching my feelings
remain undamaged. The Kolb doesn't mind either.
That business of doing stalls during your first flights in a newborn
fleugenkraft seems dumb to me, as is
the practice in the usual bi-enema. The usual, pull the power, try
to hold altitude until it does some kind of shit.
Well DUH! Sho dat baby will eventually run out of steam and go
downhill. By that time you would have to be an idiot to
not feel the eventuality. In the real world where do stall
accidents happen? Cranking it around your buddy's house
in a steep bank, especially if you have a big fat guy along for the
ride.
How many pilots have stalled in WITH the engine running, on a normal
final? Sober , that is. None that I know of.
Straight and level? Even a more rare event.
BTW, I agree with the guy who doesn't bother with the ASI on short
final. I have had my share of engine outs, sometimes over less than
perfect terrain. Was I looking at that little round gauge? Nay.
I'm trying to concentrate on conservation of energy or trying to
bleed off excess.
One sure does get focussed. Better than a root canal.
BB
On 6, Aug 2009, at 9:42 PM, lucien wrote:
>
>
> aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> No argument. It's a great text book truth that gets translated
>> into practical use by making the translation to a speed to fly.The
>> point was that stall angle is related to the relative wind, not
>> the ground. You can slow up an aircraft, even the Kolb with it's
>> Dorf gear legs, and get a full stall landing in a level attitude
>> in relation to the ground, you don't have to bang the tailwheel
>> down followed by a great impact on the mains.
>>
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
>
> FWIW, It has always surprised me how much argument I get against
> this, an amazing number of folks insist that airspeed is really
> what determines stall and I mean they push back on me _hard_ when I
> tell them it's not.
>
> Most probably don't see why they can fly their planes just fine
> with completely inop ASI's or avoid stalls in steep turns etc.
> where ASI's are useless. It's because they already have the skill
> of AOA control in their skill sets, but I get loads of pushback
> when I say this too for mysterious reasons, guys simply just don't
> believe me.
>
> As for full stalls in the Kolb, I was never able to do very good
> full stall landings in my FSII, but I could get really close in
> calm conditions. I always seemed to run out of up elevator before I
> could achieve a stall in a 3-point attitude. But I did achieve it a
> couple of times.
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256446#256446
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
At 10:04 PM 8/6/2009, you wrote:
>
>How many pilots have stalled in WITH the engine running, on a normal
>final? Sober , that is. None that I know of.
Oh .....so now we are qualifying it to "sober".
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| Subject: | Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing |
At 09:42 PM 8/6/2009, you wrote:
>get loads of pushback when I say this too for mysterious reasons,
>guys simply just don't believe me.
>
>As for full stalls in the Kolb, I was never able to do very good
>full stall landings in my FSII, but I could get really close in calm
>conditions. I always seemed to run out of up elevator before I could
>achieve a stall in a 3-point attitude. But I did achieve it a couple of times.
>
>LS
Put those little plastic VGs in font of your elevator (on the bottom
of your horizontal stab) and you can
fly down the runway with just you tail wheel touching the ground. You
don't even have to let your
mains touch the ground if you are showing off. Better have your feet
on the rudder peddles if your
springs are tight.
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