---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/08/09: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:44 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (pj.ladd) 2. 02:55 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (pj.ladd) 3. 03:46 AM - Re: victim of prop blast (Thom Riddle) 4. 03:46 AM - Re: victim of prop blast (Thom Riddle) 5. 05:17 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (pj.ladd) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (russ kinne) 7. 07:52 AM - Re: victim of prop blast (ces308) 8. 08:09 AM - tail wheel bearings (b young) 9. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (robert bean) 10. 09:39 AM - best time of the year (robert bean) 11. 09:39 AM - Re: victim of prop blast (b young) 12. 11:01 AM - Re: victim of prop blast (lucien) 13. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (Arksey@aol.com) 14. 03:02 PM - Re: tail wheel bearings (Thom Riddle) 15. 05:11 PM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (lucien) 16. 05:58 PM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (JetPilot) 17. 07:11 PM - Re: best time of the year (chris davis) 18. 07:37 PM - Re: best time of the year (robert bean) 19. 07:54 PM - Thom Riddle Writes (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:10 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing I still think it's magic, or wires.>> Hi Robert, its magic all right. With most magic knowing how it works makes it less magical. I think flying is one of those things which is still magical even when you know (ot think you know) the mechanics. At least for me, when the wheels leave the ground it doesn`t matter if you know how or why....its away with the other broomsticks. Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:07 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing /or in the _direction_ of the relative wind will affect this. Hi Lucien, that is what I said., or thought I did. Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: victim of prop blast From: "Thom Riddle" Boyd, You definitely did the right thing. Occasionally we run into arrogant pilots who need some reprimanding by the FAA. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256620#256620 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: victim of prop blast From: "Thom Riddle" Boyd, You definitely did the right thing. Occasionally we run into arrogant pilots who need some reprimanding by the FAA. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256619#256619 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:11 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing Nah, it's not lift or anything like that at all. It's gobs and gobs of cash...>> You crazy mixed kid! You have gone all twisted and bitter. Go fly Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:48 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing Pat, Ladd Got to take issue with you in re sailboats going to windward. You say when the apparent (relative) wind moves forward, as when boat speed increases, this enables the boat to point higher. It most certainly does NOT -- Just the opposite! You must bear off, point lower, point further from the direction the wind comes from, to keep sailing, keep the sails full -- or to keep lift, if in an aircraft. Just substitute angle of relative wind on the boat for AOA on the aircraft. You can delay the luff by trimming in the sails, but relative wind moving forward does not allow you to point up further. As you say, think about it. The sails will luff if you keep your course or bear up, you must bear off. Sorry to disagree but I've been there too often to count. BTW earlier you mentioned a "Boot Sale in an adjacent field"? -- is this really a sale of footwear or am I missing some English - American translation issue? If so, please pardon my Colonial ignorance! All best, fair winds, Russ On Aug 7, 2009, at 6:06 AM, pj.ladd wrote: > > but in actual flight they reach those angles at certain > corresponding airspeeds.>> > > Hi Rick, > > Not true. Your wing in level flight supports a certain weight . > Increase that weight and the wing will NOT support it. In other > words it stalls. How can you do this? Easy! Alter your flight path > markedly, this will increase the `g` force and the plane will in > effect weigh more. > > Its all about what a sailor would call `apparent wind` As a yacht > increases its speed the direction the wind is coming from moves > towards the bow. This enables a boat to `point higher`,i.e to > decrease the angle of attack. It is the same with a planes wing . > Go fast and the AOA moves forward, go slowly and the AOA moves > back. If you increase the weight of the a/c (pull `g`) the wing > will `mush` through the airand the AOA will move backwards > `WHATEVER THE AIRSPEED` > > I am sure thats clear as mud but think about it. > > Cheers > > Pat ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: victim of prop blast From: "ces308" Good for you ! Bravo !!! chris ambrose m3x/jab-44.6+ N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256642#256642 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:14 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: tail wheel bearings Been working on the tail wheel on my plane, it seems that the bearings that come with it had between 20 and 25 thousandths of play in them. When I went to the local bearing supplier he came out with a new set that looked just like the ones I wanted to replace. He told me that they were wheel barrow bearings, thy had about 10 thousandths play, I didn't measure, just my calibrated eye. I asked if he had anything better and he asked the normal questions, what was it going on and did it get any water on them,,, as he emerged from the back a second time, he had a very nice set of sealed bearings, no play, rolled very smooth,,,,, just what you would expect,,, but they did not have the retaining ring on the outside edge to keep them from going all the way into the wheel hub, as there is no shoulder to press the bearing to. Interesting they were only around $0.50 more for the pair over the cheep bearings. So going home I started looking for something to put into the wheel hub to work as a shoulder to seat the bearings against. What I found in the back of my plumbing van was a short piece of 1 1/4 thin wall copper pipe. As I checked it out I determined that if I got a good press I could get it in. went about measuring the thickness of the wheel hub, the thickness of the 2 bearings and came up needing a piece 0.8 inches long. I checked all my sockets to find one that would be small enough to go through the wheel hub but large enough to push the copper to the center, no luck. What I ended up using was a 2 inch piece of the same copper. I had to grind and sand off about 1/3 the wall thickness to insure I could get it back out. I am not sure I needed the next step because it was a real tight fit, but I coated the copper as well as the inside of the hub with a thin film of epoxy before setting. Cleaned up all the excess epoxy and then applied a very thin coat of grease to the hub before seating the wheel bearings. The bearings fit tight enough that they might have been ok without the copper shoulder. But now I am sure they are not going anywhere. Because the bearings went flush on the sides of the hub the finished assembly needed a couple of washers to keep it centered on the axel. I got it all installed on Thursday, but because of 50 mph winds, and my state of mind after visiting with my new prop blast friend on Friday, and rain this morning,,, I may not get a chance to test it out till next week. Boyd Young Kolb MkIII C 600+ hours and counting Brigham City Utah. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:55 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing Russ, that means selling from the trunk of the car. AKA "boot" BB don't ask about bees in the bonnet On 8, Aug 2009, at 9:30 AM, russ kinne wrote: > > Pat, Ladd > Got to take issue with you in re sailboats going to windward. > You say when the apparent (relative) wind moves forward, as when > boat speed increases, this enables the boat to point higher. It > most certainly does NOT -- Just the opposite! You must bear off, > point lower, point further from the direction the wind comes from, > to keep sailing, keep the sails full -- or to keep lift, if in an > aircraft. Just substitute angle of relative wind on the boat for > AOA on the aircraft. You can delay the luff by trimming in the > sails, but relative wind moving forward does not allow you to point > up further. > As you say, think about it. The sails will luff if you keep your > course or bear up, you must bear off. > Sorry to disagree but I've been there too often to count. > BTW earlier you mentioned a "Boot Sale in an adjacent field"? -- > is this really a sale of footwear or am I missing some English - > American translation issue? If so, please pardon my Colonial > ignorance! > All best, fair winds, > Russ > > On Aug 7, 2009, at 6:06 AM, pj.ladd wrote: > >> >> but in actual flight they reach those angles at certain >> corresponding airspeeds.>> >> >> Hi Rick, >> >> Not true. Your wing in level flight supports a certain weight . >> Increase that weight and the wing will NOT support it. In other >> words it stalls. How can you do this? Easy! Alter your flight path >> markedly, this will increase the `g` force and the plane will in >> effect weigh more. >> >> Its all about what a sailor would call `apparent wind` As a yacht >> increases its speed the direction the wind is coming from moves >> towards the bow. This enables a boat to `point higher`,i.e to >> decrease the angle of attack. It is the same with a planes wing . >> Go fast and the AOA moves forward, go slowly and the AOA moves >> back. If you increase the weight of the a/c (pull `g`) the wing >> will `mush` through the airand the AOA will move backwards >> `WHATEVER THE AIRSPEED` >> >> I am sure thats clear as mud but think about it. >> >> Cheers >> >> Pat > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:49 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: best time of the year A two-Kolb get together this morning at 8NK4. Light breeze directly down a beautifully manicured and WIDE runway. Thom's new toy is extremely well made. Life is good at peak oil. BB DSCN2012.JPG
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:49 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: RE: victim of prop blast >So I told him to watch for the call from the faa and he shrugged it off, so I went to the fbo and asked for the fsdo phone number, I was told that because there was no damage >that they could not do much to him, BUT I could file a formal complaint, So I did. Again because there was no damage they could not do anything but talk to him, and put it in >the records. so I thought that if that is all that can be done that will be enough. The investigator at the salt lake Fsdo called me back an hour or so later and said that the pilot > was quite respectful when talking to him , and he was told in no uncertain terms that part 93 states that he cant anytime he was in a plane, during startup, taxi, run up, takeoff, >etc that he was responsible for his prop blast and he did have to be aware of his surroundings, even to an ultra light. And that his actions according to part 93 were "careless >and reckless" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok,,, for those of you that like to look for regs, I mis quoted. it was not in section 93 sorry.. Far, section 91.13 Careless or reckless operation. a. aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another. b. Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation, no person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce ( including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another. I guess I had received an interpretation of the section by two individuals, and my interpretation of what I had heard included, ", during startup, taxi, run up, takeoff, >etc that he was responsible for his prop blast and he did have to be aware of his surroundings, even to an ultra light. " Again sorry for any mis information. Boyd Yong Kolb MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:59 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: victim of prop blast From: "lucien" Yeah we always kind of have to be careful about things like this. We can all to easily find ourselves on the other end of the stick - being accused of doing X,Y,Z to P,Q,R and having to defend ourselves at considerable time and cost even tho the accusations can be trumped up and just the result of someone wanting to abuse the system because they're just jerks. I personally want to involve FAA and FSDO only as a very, very last resort in case of a problem. If I run into an issue with someone else my preference is to either just let it go or just keep the dealings between us. Course all that changes in the case of property damage, that's a whole 'nother story. As for prop blast, try jet engine blast. We mix it up with turbo props and jets of all sizes where I fly at. Once I was in the runup area when one of the big commuter jets was taxiing to the active. As he turned onto the runway, I was situated right exactly in his prop blast doing my mag check. Can you say "oh crap"... there wasn't time for me to move out of the way so I swung directly into it, put in some down elevator, centered the ailerons and gritted my teeth. That was probably the most exciting flight I've ever had while actually sitting still on the ground.... whew....... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256670#256670 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:24 PM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing interesting statements on full stall landings...I learned to fly in a J-3 and was taught to have the stick clear back into your belly when the plane touched the ground and was fully stalled....I still want to try and do that with my firestar and found it difficult to get a good landing....have often had the tail wheel hit 1st...have just by experence learned that I seem to get a lot better landing when I only bring the stick back part way...so you can see why your discussions on this subject have been interesting to me.....jswan do not archive JIM SWAN firestar ll, 503, N663S Eaton Rapids, Mi. 48827 PH 517-663-8488 runway 2300' E & W (42-28.58N 084-44.69 W ) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: tail wheel bearings From: "Thom Riddle" Thanks for the explanation, Boyd. I'm going to check the play in my tailwheel some day soon, since it is carrying 120 lbs when empty but a little less in service with me in the seat. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256688#256688 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:27 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing From: "lucien" pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > Nah, it's not lift or anything like that at all. It's gobs and gobs of > cash...>> > > You crazy mixed kid! You have gone all twisted and bitter. Go fly > > Cheers > > Pat I don't think the wind is going to allow it this eve, but I may take another shot at it in the morning. I get a lot grumpier when I don't get to fly and summer is a terrible time for it. Can't wait till fall/winter... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256700#256700 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing From: "JetPilot" Arksey(at)aol.com wrote: > interesting statements on full stall landings...I learned to fly in a J-3 and was taught to have the stick clear back into your belly when the plane touched the ground and was fully stalled.... > This would be different with different aircraft types, depending on landing gear setup and other factors. Also many times, instructors say things that are not quite true in the interest of simplifying an idea for a student. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256705#256705 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:23 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: best time of the year Robert ,I am so envious of your place in the flying world =0A=0A\\=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARobert, I am very envious of your place in th e flying world"been there done that " would love to and will -go back! Gr eat pic thank you Chris=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: robert bean =0ATo: kolb =0ASent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 12:33:27 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: best ti me of the year=0A=0A=0AA two-Kolb get together this morning at 8NK4.- Lig ht breeze directly down a beautifully manicured and WIDE runway.=0AThom's n ew toy is extremely well made.- Life is good at peak oil.=0ABB=0A=0A=0ADS CN2012.JPG=0A=0A=0A=0A
http://www.matronics.com/Navi
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi
========================0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:54 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: best time of the year you wouldn't be in january. BB (too old and wimpy for skis) On 8, Aug 2009, at 10:08 PM, chris davis wrote: > Robert ,I am so envious of your place in the flying world > > \\ > > > Robert, I am very envious of your place in the flying world"been > there done that " would love to and will go back! Great pic thank > you Chris > > From: robert bean > To: kolb > Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 12:33:27 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: best time of the year > > > A two-Kolb get together this morning at 8NK4. Light breeze > directly down a beautifully manicured and WIDE runway. > Thom's new toy is extremely well made. Life is good at peak oil. > BB > > > DSCN2012.JPG > > > 
http://tp:// 
> forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http:// 
> forums.matronics.com">http://forumsp;             -Matt Dralle,  
> List Admin.
> www.matr=======================
>
>
> > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:13 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Thom Riddle Writes Guys, FYI The August 2009 issue of EAA Sport Pilot & Light-Sport Aircraft magazine contains a letter written by Thom Riddle, one of our Kolb list members. See it under the title "Oops!' on page 46. Bill Varnes Kolb FireStar Audubon, NJ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.