---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/12/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:55 AM - Re: Re: Need advice on instruments (John Hauck) 2. 04:43 AM - Re: Re: Need advice on instruments (Mike Welch) 3. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Need advice on instruments (John Hauck) 4. 09:36 AM - Re: Brad Stump (John Hauck) 5. 11:22 AM - Re: Brad Stump (william sullivan) 6. 12:27 PM - Re: Brad Stump (JetPilot) 7. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Brad Stump (John Hauck) 8. 02:53 PM - Re: Brad Stump (Jean Bilodeau) 9. 03:34 PM - Re: Brad Stump (JetPilot) 10. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: Brad Stump (russ kinne) 11. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Brad Stump (robert bean) 12. 06:20 PM - Re: Brad Stump (planecrazzzy) 13. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Brad Stump (Richard Girard) 14. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Brad Stump (Richard Girard) 15. 06:56 PM - Re: 447 problem (dalewhelan) 16. 07:21 PM - Re: W/B For MK III How Much Weight on Your Tialwheel ??? (Richard Girard) 17. 07:58 PM - Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:41 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Need advice on instruments If I understand this correctly, Mike W is grouping his Garmin 296 with his other two air speed indicators. I didn't know the 296 had an ASI capability??? john h mkIII Thanks for the tips, Ed. I'm not so worried about pricey, since the Dyno n was well over $2500. Plus, I'm not going to rely on just one instrument, hence the analog UMA airspeed indicator, the Dynon airspeed indicator, and my Garmin 296 GPS. Mike Welch MkIII ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:41 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: RE: Need advice on instruments John H=2C I meant I was using more than one method of knowing if an airspeed indica tor is functioning properly. Using different forms and gauges of compariso n=2C to check for accuracy. I am well aware that a GPS isn't an airspeed indicator. Thanks for point ing it out. Mike Welch From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Need advice on instruments If I understand this correctly=2C Mike W is grouping his Garmin 296 with hi s other two air speed indicators. I didn't know the 296 had an ASI capability??? john h mkIII Thanks for the tips=2C Ed. I'm not so worried about pricey=2C since the D ynon was well over $2500. Plus=2C I'm not going to rely on just one instru ment=2C hence the analog UMA airspeed indicator=2C the Dynon airspeed indic ator=2C and my Garmin 296 GPS. Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR _sync:082009 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:31 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Need advice on instruments Great! I knew you knew the difference. Some folks are of the understanding they can use the GPS ground speed for f lying. Ground speed works great for navigation but not aviation. john h mkIII I am well aware that a GPS isn't an airspeed indicator. Thanks for po inting it out. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:11 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump Hey Guys: Travis Brown shared this news report with me on the Brad Stump crash. john h mkIII > John here is a news report . I dont know if this is what you read or not. > > http://dpa.xtn.net/dynamic/News/Story/157498 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:18 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump - John- Thank you (and Travis) for this very informative report.- My he art goes out to the families.- I think this incident will provide valuabl e knowledge to all of the rest of us, both regarding operating outside the aircraft limitations and the proper deployment of a chute.- Please keep u s posted on any further information.- Does anyone happen to know what mod el it was, and how equiped?- Also, I think the accident was in Tennessee- correct? - ------------------------- ------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- --------------Windsor Locks, Ct. --- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: "JetPilot" That is very good information John H., most of us know that the engine should be shut down before deploying the chute on a pusher type aircraft... But reality is that in an emergency it would be very easy to get so panicked that one would just immediately pull the chute and forget to get the prop stopped first. Hearing of an actual incident like this and knowing the result may prevent someone from making the same mistake. As far as aerobatics, a Kolb is definitely not the plane for that type of flying. I wonder how credible the witness is, if what he saw may have been out of control airplane trying to regain control, or if they really were doing aerobatics ? If it was a non pilot witness, control problems could easily be mistaken for " Tricks ". I would think interviewing people that he flew with would know if Brad was in the habit of flying his Kolb out of its flight envelope or not. Its always sad to hear of things like this, but its very important to find out exactly what happened so that others can learn and not make the same mistakes. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257332#257332 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:58 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump You can go to this site and pull up the Preliminary Accident Report which i s listed under 10 Aug. Aircraft was a MKIIIx with a Hirth two stroke. http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/ john h mkIII I think this incident will provide valuable knowledge to Does anyo ne happen to know what model it was, and how equiped? Also, I think the ac cident was in Tennessee- correct? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: "Jean Bilodeau" Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the parachute handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257359#257359 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: "JetPilot" Jean Bilodeau wrote: > Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the parachute handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. I don't think I would want a Kill switch wired into the BRS handle. The downside is that you now have created another way to induce an engine failure if the switch gets moved over time, or if the wire gets shorted, or any number of other things that could happen. I also think if you were to pull the chute and rely on a Kill switch, the prop would not instantly stop, with relative wind, the prop would stop even slower than it would on the ground... Would the prop stop before the chute got tangled in it, I have no idea. So we have something that there is a definite disadvantage and safety hazard when installed, and it may not even work as designed... I have no desire to do this even though I could. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257367#257367 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:02 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump M. Bilodeau Remember the prop would need a few seconds to stop rotating, after you pull the handle/kill switch and before the chute was deployed. You might very well NOT want to delay chute deployment, even by a few seconds. Your idea has merit but I doubt many pilots would want to install it. On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Bilodeau wrote: > > > Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the > parachute handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257359#257359 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:06 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump In my case the prop usually stops first :) Then I utter the "aw s____ not again" I suggest to new Kolb test pilots to do initial stall testing with sufficient recovery space. -better yet, learn how to fly it first. BB On 12, Aug 2009, at 8:18 PM, russ kinne wrote: > > M. Bilodeau > Remember the prop would need a few seconds to stop rotating, after > you pull the handle/kill switch and before the chute was deployed. > You might very well NOT want to delay chute deployment, even by a > few seconds. > Your idea has merit but I doubt many pilots would want to install it. > > > On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Bilodeau wrote: > >> >> >> Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the >> parachute handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257359#257359 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:17 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Bob, Most accidents I've heard of in Kolbs , Aren't during normal Flying... Famous last words... "Watch This" Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dog slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > In my case the prop usually stops first :) > Then I utter the "aw s____ not again" > > I suggest to new Kolb test pilots to do initial stall testing with > sufficient recovery space. > -better yet, learn how to fly it first. > BB > > On 12, Aug 2009, at 8:18 PM, russ kinne wrote: > > > > > > > > M. Bilodeau > > Remember the prop would need a few seconds to stop rotating, after > > you pull the handle/kill switch and before the chute was deployed. > > You might very well NOT want to delay chute deployment, even by a > > few seconds. > > Your idea has merit but I doubt many pilots would want to install it. > > > > > > > > On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Bilodeau wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the > > > parachute handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 57359#257359 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257401#257401 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: Richard Girard The second link John provided seems to have a more credible witness than the person who said he was doing "tricks". From the description it sounds like he was doing hammer head stalls / Immelmann turns and allowed the aircraft to slide backwards during the last one. If that description is accurate it's not too difficult to account for the bridle line of the parachute getting wrapped around the propeller / gearbox.Too bad, such a tragic waste. Rick Girard do not archive On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM, robert bean wrote: > > In my case the prop usually stops first :) > Then I utter the "aw s____ not again" > > I suggest to new Kolb test pilots to do initial stall testing with > sufficient recovery space. > -better yet, learn how to fly it first. > BB > > > On 12, Aug 2009, at 8:18 PM, russ kinne wrote: > >> >> M. Bilodeau >> Remember the prop would need a few seconds to stop rotating, after you >> pull the handle/kill switch and before the chute was deployed. >> You might very well NOT want to delay chute deployment, even by a few >> seconds. >> Your idea has merit but I doubt many pilots would want to install it. >> >> >> >> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Bilodeau wrote: >> >>> bilodeau.jean@sympatico.ca> >>> >>> Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the parachute >>> handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257359#257359 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: Richard Girard Went back and read the report again. The entanglement is even easier to account for if he went inverted during the last "stunt". Rick do not archive On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > The second link John provided seems to have a more credible witness than > the person who said he was doing "tricks". From the description it sounds > like he was doing hammer head stalls / Immelmann turns and allowed the > aircraft to slide backwards during the last one. If that description is > accurate it's not too difficult to account for the bridle line of the > parachute getting wrapped around the propeller / gearbox. Too bad, such a > tragic waste. > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM, robert bean wrote: > >> >> In my case the prop usually stops first :) >> Then I utter the "aw s____ not again" >> >> I suggest to new Kolb test pilots to do initial stall testing with >> sufficient recovery space. >> -better yet, learn how to fly it first. >> BB >> >> >> On 12, Aug 2009, at 8:18 PM, russ kinne wrote: >> >>> >>> M. Bilodeau >>> Remember the prop would need a few seconds to stop rotating, after you >>> pull the handle/kill switch and before the chute was deployed. >>> You might very well NOT want to delay chute deployment, even by a few >>> seconds. >>> Your idea has merit but I doubt many pilots would want to install it. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Jean Bilodeau wrote: >>> >>>> bilodeau.jean@sympatico.ca> >>>> >>>> Does anyone know why there is no ignition kill switch in the parachute >>>> handle? It does not seem to be that difficult to install. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257359#257359 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 447 problem From: "dalewhelan" has this problem been solved yet? -------- Dale Whelan 503 powered Firestar II Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257408#257408 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: W/B For MK III How Much Weight on Your Tialwheel ??? From: Richard Girard Mike, Never measured it on the ground but set up for W & B it's 86 lb. with the old tail wheel. I'll do another on Friday and give you the results with a stock Kolb on shortened gear leg. Rick On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 9:31 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > I want to compare the weight and balance of my MK III against some > others... How much weight do you have on the tailwheel when sitting on the > gear, and how much when you put it in flight attitude ? Did anyone have to > add weight anywhere, or move anything to get the weight and balance within > limits ? > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have > !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257236#257236 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:47 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: W & B, cruising, stalling and landing From: "Richard Pike" To John: something you said got my twisted little mind to working: ... "3-Required the wings be rigged with more angle of attack so we could take off and land in a nearly level attitude, and to prevent the tail from sagging to the extreme when doing slow flight. It also slows the cruise speed because of additional drag of pulling the tailboom through the air sideways. The Sling Shot will really sag in the tail when slowed down because is has a lot less incidence than the MKIII and FS. john h mkIII" Hmmm - so I went out to the hangar and looked at how the bottom of the root rib aligns with the frame that you attach the center section lower fabric to, which is (more or less) aligned with the underside of the wing. Mine has always been misaligned, the rear lines up, the front, not so much. The wing has too great an angle of attack to line up with the front part of the framework, it is about 5/8" too high. And it is built exactly to plans. (At least in this area...) So I gets to thinking - "What if I were to drill a new hole in each root rib tang about 5/8" lower and drop the angle of incidence of each wing until it lines up with the lower center section? That would take about 2.5-3 degrees of incidence out of the wings, and maybe pick up a bit of cruise speed? Would need to retrim the elevators, reshim the angle of the motor mounts, etc, but might be worth the hassle. Takeoff runs might be a bit different, landings too, but overall... Hmmm..." Now look what you've done... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257418#257418 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.