---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/16/09: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:26 AM - Re: hours vs experience (funderp47) 2. 05:23 AM - Jabiru powered Kolbs (Thom Riddle) 3. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (loseyf@comcast.net) 4. 06:43 AM - Re: Spinning (Mike Welch) 5. 06:44 AM - Re: Spinning (russ kinne) 6. 07:33 AM - Re: Spinning (John Hauck) 7. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Spinning (John Hauck) 8. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: Spinning (Jack B. Hart) 9. 08:20 AM - Sources for Fram G1 in-line gas filter (jerb) 10. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Spinning (John Hauck) 11. 09:27 AM - Re: Spinning (JetPilot) 12. 09:33 AM - Re: Spinning (JetPilot) 13. 09:46 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (JetPilot) 14. 09:49 AM - Re: Sources for Fram G1 in-line gas filter (robert bean) 15. 10:01 AM - Re: hours vs experience (JetPilot) 16. 11:54 AM - First Flight follow-up, (HGRAFF@aol.com) 17. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Spinning (russ kinne) 18. 12:42 PM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (neilsenrm@comcast.net) 19. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (Richard Girard) 20. 12:55 PM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (Rex Rodebush) 21. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Spinning (russ kinne) 22. 01:13 PM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (Richard Girard) 23. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Spinning (Jack B. Hart) 24. 02:28 PM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Kirkds) 25. 02:34 PM - kolb fire star 2 question (dfcpac) 26. 02:39 PM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Thom Riddle) 27. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (John Hauck) 28. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Spinning (possums) 29. 03:03 PM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Kirkds) 30. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck) 31. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Richard Girard) 32. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (possums) 33. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (Richard Girard) 34. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck) 35. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck) 36. 09:17 PM - Re: kolb fire star 2 question (dalewhelan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:59 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: "funderp47" I'm a barely computer literate lurker that reads this list. Bob Bean's post below this one caught my eye. I posted this on another list recently: I also use a Fram G1. I get them from Tractor Supply, but they don't always have them. I buy extras when they do and save them. A friend landed with his Phantom a few months ago, and I noticed the paper media was just sloshing around inside his G1 looking filter. It was a Purolator, and the paper was simply glued to the outlet end of the canister. It had come loose and was just floating around. The canister was full of fuel, even though it was vertical on the suction side above the tank. A G1 in that position will have very little fuel in it by its design, and makes for a good filter clogging indicator if it starts filling up. We replaced it with one of my Frams. He shut it down before takeoff, and when I walked over, he said gas was dripping down from the engine. A piece of paper fuzz from the unglued element was in a carb's needle/seat and caused the bowl to overflow and he saw it. I guess that's one advantage to a tractor style with a high engine. A G1 has metal caps on each end of the filter paper media, and the little miniature filter is held (wedged) in place by standoffs made into the plastic housing. Phil slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > On the filter thing, I'm almost embarrassed to report my discovery. > As you may remember I have been having mysterious fuel > problems. -discolored, stale smelling gas, stuttering engine on > climb out, float needle hanging at start. > -well some good came of it, I changed the line over to the newer > ethanol resistant stuff, Put a tee in for a temporary gauge. > Every spring I put in a new plastic auto zone filter with a decent > sized reservoir bottom. > > Don't buy the auto zone model made in china > > When I cut the bottom off I discovered the element flopping around > and the cement (epoxy, asphalt, old chewing gum?) > that was supposed to retain it had dried and crumbled and chunks were > broken off. Obviously some had gone downstream > to the pump and maybe the regulator. -ethanol is not our friend > except when mixed with hops and malted barley. > > I have a metal housing filter in for temporary. I'll buy a good one. > BB > BTW, had a nice ride last evening. Seemed peppier with fuel getting > into the float bowl :) > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257953#257953 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "Thom Riddle" For those few of you who are flying Kolbs with Jabiru engines, you may have already learned what I learned recently. If not then listen up for it is worth knowing. Shortly after flying home with my NTM (new to me) Slinghsot with Jabiru 2200A engine, I stupidly left the master switch on over-night. Predictably, next time I went to fly, the battery had insufficient power to crank the engine. Fortunately, Luray the builder profided and easy to use battery jumper cable connection so I jump started it with my car. After disconnecting the jumper cables the battery was still low but the alternator was charging it so I went ahead and taxied out toward the runway and did my pre-take-off checks turned on the landing lights and took off. During climb out the EIS warning light came on and automatically switched to the voltage meter page which was blinking about 11.7V. About the same time, the tach reading on the EIS went to zero but the engine was running fine. I completed the circuit and landed uneventfully. Luray had installed a 15A fuse in the DC output circuit from the rectifier/regulator to the battery and it blew during high power climb with all electrical loads on. Luray had never had this happen during the nearly 5 years he had been flying the SS with Jabiru engine. Afterwards, I learned from the Jabiru Engines list that when the battery is low and the electrical load is high the current flow from the regulator is very high and apparently sufficient to blow a 15A fuse. I've never seen this before on any machine I've ever operated with a low battery. I replaced the 15A fuse with a 20A (per Jabiru installation manual), fully charged the battery and flew yesterday for a bit over an hour with no problems. The moral of this story is that you should not fly the Jabiru with high electrical loads when the battery is low. If you do and don't have circuit protection you might get a nasty surprise. If you do have a fuse in that circuit, make sure it is 20A per the Jabiru manual, which says that the fuse is optional. With this recent experience, I would consider a fuse in this circuit to be mandatory. I only have about 7 hours flying time with a Jabiru but it was a valuable experience worth relating to other Jabiru fliers. If I had known of this peculiarity before, I would not have flown until I had fully charged the battery. Again, I've never seen this occurr on any other machine I've operated so it may be peculiar to the Jabiru alternator and rect/reg combination or something else entirely. Can't say for sure but you can bet I'll never ever leave the master switch on again of fly with the battery low again. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257957#257957 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: loseyf@comcast.net Well put Rick. As a newbie to this list, I monitor because I want to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building, operating and maintaining the Kolb. My goal is to always approach dialog in "sponge" mode, trying to soak up and learn from every person I interact with, hopeful that I may be able to return the favor someday. Granted, a good cross check of information received should be in order, but for the most part I appreciate when persons share experiences and information that I am unfamiliar with, as I am clearly learning, and strive to be a safe and knowledgeable builder, operator, and owner. My gratitude to those who provide such unselfish service. Please keep up the good work. Fran Losey ------Original Message------ From: Rick Neilsen Sender: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Aug 16, 2009 4:44 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience There have been some well meaning and well written comments. But,,,,,,,I never saw anything said by anyone that we should have X hours to give advice. I think there was a misunderstanding of what was written. Someone got his nose out of joint but there was nothing to get worked up over. I think the whole issue hours vs. years is a chest pounding display of one upmanship but I'm not one of the top dogs so I would. Why don't we just move on. Remember there is only one stupid question and it is the one that doesn't get asked. Also the advise given is best when it is given "to help others". Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:00 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Spinning John=2C My observation of Possums' video gave me the impression he had control of the spin=2C that is=3B entering it=2C how long it lasted=2C and when he de cided to end it. I agree with you that during the actual spin you don't re ally have any "flight control"=2C except when you end it. Personally=2C I've never spun any aircraft I've flown=2C nor do I plan to . Not my cup of tea. I was just making an observation that Kolbs seem to be a reasonably docile airplane=2C and not some "scary out of control flight-trap". I also made the observation Stan was VERY high above the ground. Regardl ess of whatever aerobatic flight manuever a person might try=2C they need t o do it way up high=2C to allow plenty of time for recovery=2C or as a last resort=2C a ballistic chute attempt. In my opinion=2C doing a high risk manuever close to the ground=2C includ ing an excessive climb out=2C are asking for trouble. I am curious how you feel "One reason is the outboard end of the wing do es not stall". I have not heard that before. Since the Kolb aircraft wings do not have a ny "washout" built into them=2C why would the outboard wing act any differe nt than any other portion of the wing. I'm not arguing with you=2C just curious why you said that. BTW=2C I keep the same attention level close to the ground as you do. A good pilot would be aware of his airspeed (on approach)=2C and the airspeed indicator can NOT be the only way to monitor one's airspeed. They need to have a "feel" for how the airplane is acting=2C too. When I went through flight training=2C my instructor used to cover up the flight instruments=2C just to make sure I wasn't ONLY relying on just the instruments. Mike Welch MkIII From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spinning Mike W: I=2C personally=2C don't think there is any control of a Kolb during a spin =2C not until after recovery has been initiated and accomplished. During t he spin there is really nothing to do except bite holes in the seat cushion .. My original Firestar had to have the controls crossed up and locked to spin =2C and then it would only spin a half turn and fly out of the spin with th e controls still locked. That was with the engine at idle. While experime nting with engine off aerobatics=2C I tried a spin. Dead stick=2Cit spun u p and would not recover until control was relaxed on stick and pedals. The MKIII=2C being a much heavier aircraft than the Firestar falls out of t he sky in a spin. Can't remember how many feet it takes to recovery from t ime of initiation to recovery in a one revolution spin=2C but it is enough to warn you not to try one close to the ground. Inadvertent stalls only occur when the pilot is not paying attention=2C has diversion of attention=2C and is usually close to the ground. It is the i nattentive pilot that is going to bite the dust. Stalls do happen. The de sire to stall does not have to be part of the equation by any means. Kolbs are not prone to spin. One reason is the outboard end of the wing do es not stall=2C therefore we still have aileron/roll control and some lift to keep a wing from dropping. However=2C if you stall close to the ground =2C you probably will not have time to recover before impact. Unlike some of the pilots on this List=2C I keep a cross check of my ASI wh en I am close to the ground=2C and especially during landing. Only takes m e an instant to know where my ASI needle is pointing. I don't have to star e at the ASI to know how fast I am flying. It is the only way to know if I am keeping a safe margin above the stall. Even more important when winds are changing direction on me. I can not use perceived ground speed as an a irspeed reference to keep me above the stall. One can get away with a lot of "stuff" in a Kolb=2C but it is that one litt le incident that will get you. Been there and done that=2C more than once. Hopefully=2C I am learning. john h mkIII After watching the video of you and your Firestar spins=2C I get the imp ression that you=3B A) had to make the Firestar spin B) were in absolute full control during the spin C) could have ended the spin at any time you wanted to end it D) were VERY high above the ground Your video should seem to remove the fear of some stall jumping out and b iting some inattentive pilot. In other words=2C stalls don't just "happen" =2C you have to want it to stall. Just my observation.... Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:03 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spinning List I certainly don't want to start another long thread. Of course John is right, and I don't recommend spinning into the ground either. I only know what I've been told about the airmail pilots; how their wood-and-fabric aircraft would break up in a crash, and (reportedly) the pilot usually lived thru it. But maybe I've believed too much. I have no first-hand or second-hand, or even third-hand experience here. I should have emphasized that the old biplanes had low vertical descent speeds in a spin; not like modern aircraft. I do think a spin is a stable maneuver in that it doesn't change by itself. The pilot can either let the aircraft keep spinning, or bring it out of the spin. They used to require spins in pilot training, then only 'an approach to a spin'. This at least let the student know what it felt like, just before the spin developed. I suspect the change occurred because of too many accidents. Good idea to stay away from them. Do we have a CFI on the list who has some input? Russ K On Aug 15, 2009, at 10:40 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > Remember how the old airmail pilots used to spin down thru the cloud >> layer when they were caught on top? A spin is a stable maneuver, >> with fairly low vertical descent speed. Even if the plane impacted >> the ground, the pilot would likely walk away. Dizzy perhaps, but >> alive. >> Besides, they're fun! >> Russ K > > > Russ K: > > Think you wrote about this once before. > > I don't recommend you try spinning any airplane into the ground. I > can assure you, you will not walk away and you will not be dizzy. > You will probably not be alive. > > I don't know what the school definition is of a spin, but to me it > is not a stable maneuver. To me, it is an uncontrolled maneuver > until control is regained when exiting the spin. > > In a Kolb, the nose is nearly straight down, and it seems more like > a spiral than a spin. I can assure you altitude is rapidly lost. > > I've spun every Kolb I have built and owned, but I don't enjoy > going out and doing spins for fun anymore. > > john h > mkIII > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:40 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Spinning Hi Mike W: To answer your question about the outboard end of the wing not stalling: TNK did tuft tests of the MKIIIc early on in their development of the MKIIIx. As soon as stall was initiated the tufts on the inboard end of the wing would start pulling off the wing, dancing around, indicating air had seperated from the top of the wing. The tufts on the outboard end of the wing stayed glued to the top of the wing all the way to the end of the bow tip. Inboard stalled, outboard still flying. Further, I did some experimenting with my MKIII just prior to flying to Pennsylvania for Homer's funeral which backed up the tuft tests. Playing around with stalls, I pulled the flap handle out of the detent and let it float between zero and 20 degrees. As the MKIII approached the stall, the flaps started a gentle shake, but the ailerons remained steady. Further into the stall the flaps and the ailerons were steady. If you can get enough angle of attack of the wing, and hold it there, you can stall the whole wing. However, it is difficult if not impossible to hold that steep an attitude for more than a moment. In a mush/stall, with the stick all the way back to the stop, the Kolb mushes in a near level attitude. Most of the time it will gain enough airspeed to fly back out of the mush/stall with the stick still being held full aft. I think what screws folks up is the gentleness of this maneuver at a safe altitude gives them a false impression that they can pop right out of a mush/stall any time they wish. However, close to the ground it is easy to get into a mush/stall and not get out of it before hitting the ground because there just isn't enough altitude to complete the maneuver. Remember Dale Walen telling us he hit the ground pretty hard when he was maneuvering close to the ground in his FS with his girl friend on board. I imagine he mushed it into the ground when he got too slow in a steep turn, hit the ground, regained enough airspeed to start flying again. I experienced something similar departing Grants, NM, last May. Flew out of ground effect, max gross weight, 9300 feet DA, cross wind in a valley with invisible dust devils in the area of the airstrip. I was too low and too slow and too heavy to push the nose down to recover. I kept the throttle wide open, kept the nose up with aft stick, kept the wings level. The wind blew me off the runway to the left. I hit in the sand between the sage brush extremely hard, thinking I was going to spread the main gear legs, kept the throttle wide open, bounced back into the air, and was flying again, however poorly. Bruce C and John B took off ahead of me, experienced the same thing, but were able to keep from hitting the ground. Was not a fun experience, but it got our utmost attention after that, and we learned a lot. john h mkIII I am curious how you feel "One reason is the outboard end of the wing does not stall". Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:06 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning did some stalls last week in mine and recorded it...take a look....and notice all the stalling I was doing..I lost no altitude.. > > chris ambrose If your Kolb flies like my Kolb, the inboard end of the wings stalls first and the aircraft goes into a gentle mush/stall because the outboard end of the wing is still providing some lift. A lot of Kolb aircraft have mushed into the ground in a level attitude, spread the gear or worse, and the pilots walked away, thinking they were still flying and wondering why they were losing altitude. Some of those pilots did not walk away. If you get enough angle of attack, the entire wing stalls. The pilot will recognize this as a normal stall, like in a Cessna. But with enough altitude, the Kolb will fly out of it. Not long ago I was trying to get back into the groove after laying off flying since I returned from out West the end of May, getting ready to fly to Homer's in mid-July. I was playing around with slow flight, stalls, steep turns, and placed the the flap handle between zero and 20 degrees, letting the handle float in that position. As I approached the stall the flaps would shake. In all the flying I have done in this airplane, this is the first time I had observed this. As I got further into the stall the flaps would stop shaking, but the ailerons never shook. That, to me, was an indication the inboard end of the wing is stalling before the outboard end. I don't think I ever stalled a Kolb and not lost altitude. Experiementing with the Kolb I can nibble at the mush/stall and it doesn't seem like I have lost any altitude because it is so gentle. This can get pilots in trouble because the airplane remains in a level attitude, but it is in a stall. Our head tells us we are flying because we are level. Our heads are telling us if we were stalling, the nose would be down. In the early years of flying Kolbs, I experimented quite a bit with different flying techniques, unusual attitudes, aerobatics, trying to learn all I could about flying these little airplanes. A lot of the experimenting I did was well outside the design flight envelope, but I would not have found out how they flew if I had not gone there. Would I do that kind of flying now that I have learned the hard way several times? Not hardly, but I wouldn't give a million dollars for the experience. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:26 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning Kolbers, When I began flying lessons, recovery from spins was a requirement. Later on I flew sailplanes for a a couple of years. Since you are primarily in continuos slow flight just above stall most of the time, it was important to experience spins and recovery. As I under stand it the FAA stopped requiring spin recovery training, due to the fact that most spins were experienced during transition to and from the ground. And since most of the resultant effects could not be countered did not feel that training was essential. I still believe that spin and spin recovery should be taught, as it can give you a lot of important information about your aircraft. My original FireFly, was very twitchy and when I would pull it up into a low powered stall, I had to kick rudder to pick a wing as it mushed forward. If I didn't it would roll over into a spin. Later I mounted VG's and it improved the airflow over the ailerons, so that a wing would not drop, and the FireFly just went into a forward mush. The twitchyness went away. One could advance the throttle and hold altitude, and with a little aileron input, rotate the FireFly without dropping a wing. One had to force it into a spin. Then I mounted the Victor 1+ and I moved the propeller off to one side to prevent the addition of a trim tab to the rudder. This improved overall cruise performance but the asymmetrical thrust over the wings dramatically changed the stall characteristics. The left wing receives greater propeller coverage, and so the right wing will always stall first. With little power, one can hold it up with rudder. Under power the right wing will warn you with a "wump" and then the flow will re-attach, and it you persist in adding more back stick, the right wing will drop and over you go. This is the price I have to pay for asymmetrical thrust to keep weight down and to increase cruise performance. But I would not have found how the FireFly would respond if I had not taken it up to altitude and checked it out. FWIW Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:53 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Kolb-List: Sources for Fram G1 in-line gas filter In my area the Fram G1 filter is hard to find if you can, I usually have to order them from Lockwood Aviation. A little over a month ago I went around to various auto parts to see if I could get a like replacement. This is what I learned. Auto Zone - didn't have any crossover to Fram G1. PEP Boys - told them I needed 1/4" barb connects - they gave me one with 5/16". - returned it. O'Reilly Auto Parts - had a filter but not quite like the Fram. NAPA Auto Parts - they had a replacement - one with 5/16" barbs and one with 1/4" barbs - this one was identical to the Fram G1 - the case direction flow indicator molded into the plastic housing was identical to the Fram G1 - looked identical to me. I'm running one now, so far no problems. The NAPA has a paper element - I will look at it to see if it has metal caps on each end of the filter paper media, and if it has the little miniature filter held (wedged) in place by standoffs made into the plastic housing as referenced by Phil. I understand Mark Smith on the UL or CGS Hawk List sells the Fram G1 filters. I would like to thank Phil for his input and the lead to Tractor Supply as a source for the Fram G1 filters. jerb ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:52 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning My original > FireFly, was very twitchy and when I would pull it up into a low powered > stall, I had to kick rudder to pick a wing as it mushed forward. If I > didn't it would roll over into a spin. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN Jack H: Wouldn't the aileron hold your FF level in a low powered mush? I never got a chance to "horse around" with the FF more than I could do in the traffic patterns of OSH and LAL. Been so long since I flew it I can't remember, but there was something a little unusual about it when slipping, I think. I never flew the original with the huge ailerons, only the ones with smaller ailerons. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning From: "JetPilot" Possums wrote: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=897400447222498104 > > Possums, What a ride !!! With no window or anything forward of you in your firestar, you are hanging by your belts looking down at nothing but air in front of you for 2000 feet :) I have done hundreds of spins in a Cessna 150 Aerobat, but your position and view in the spin is just insane crazy. Do you do that often ? How many turns have you done ? That is a really cool video, I hope you keep making new ones. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257989#257989 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning From: "JetPilot" russ(at)rkiphoto.com wrote: > > > I do think a spin is a stable maneuver in that it doesn't change by > itself. The pilot can either let the aircraft keep spinning, or bring > it out of the spin. > A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any other airplane. Just like the non aviation witness be the best to determine how an airplane was flying before a crash, don't believe everything you hear and read. The above is not true, a spin can and usually does change a lot depending on how many turns you go through. This is why many people do not spin past 3 turns or so, spins have a very bad habit if tightening up, getting flatter, and doing all sorts of strange things depending on the airplane and how it is loaded. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257990#257990 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "JetPilot" If I was flying any airplane with a low battery, I would leave the landing and all other lights off until the battery was properly charged. Chances are, if you had not had that large extra load of the landing light on, you would have never had a problem. Landing and other lights are most definitely not required during takeoff in daylight, many Kolbs and other airplanes don't even have them. I have no problem using a landing light to become more visible in daylight patterns, unless I have a low battery which needs to be charged, which then becomes much more important. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257993#257993 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:33 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Sources for Fram G1 in-line gas filter Jerb, Thanks for the good info. Since my recent experience I am a little reluctant to use another plastic housing filter. BUT, if there are good ones available I will still consider them. The clear housing type are what I would want. The thing to look for is how the element is located within. It should be mechanically captured by the housing, not held in place by some mysterious means. Placing it in the suction area before the pump would eliminate pressure/burst problems. -all it has to do is survive ethanol. Anyway, since getting that behind me I attended a flyin event yesterday and a breakfast this morning. Good to be flying and not fixing. -besides, I had to go someplace after getting it clean enough to appear in public. I flew alongside a flock of taildraggers going to. ...rephrase that, I straggled behind those speedy A65 powered monsters. BB On 16, Aug 2009, at 11:19 AM, jerb wrote: > In my area the Fram G1 filter is hard to find if you can, I usually > have to order them from Lockwood Aviation. > > A little over a month ago I went around to various auto parts to > see if I could get a like replacement. This is what I learned. > > Auto Zone - didn't have any crossover to Fram G1. > > PEP Boys - told them I needed 1/4" barb connects - they gave me one > with 5/16". - returned it. > > O'Reilly Auto Parts - had a filter but not quite like the Fram. > > NAPA Auto Parts - they had a replacement - one with 5/16" barbs and > one with 1/4" barbs - this one was identical to the Fram G1 - the > case direction flow indicator molded into the plastic housing was > identical to the Fram G1 - looked identical to me. I'm running one > now, so far no problems. > > The NAPA has a paper element - I will look at it to see if it has > metal caps on each end of the filter paper media, and if it has the > little miniature filter held (wedged) in place by standoffs made > into the plastic > housing as referenced by Phil. > > I understand Mark Smith on the UL or CGS Hawk List sells the Fram > G1 filters. > > I would like to thank Phil for his input and the lead to Tractor > Supply as a source for the Fram G1 filters. > > jerb > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: "JetPilot" funderp47 wrote: > > > A friend landed with his Phantom a few months ago, and I noticed the paper media > was just sloshing around inside his G1 looking filter. It was a Purolator, and > the paper was simply glued to the outlet end of the canister. It had come loose > and was just floating around. He shut it down before takeoff, and when I > walked over, he said gas was dripping down from the engine. > > Given the many stories like this, and the EAA's statistics which say that about half of all engine failures in experimental airplanes are caused by fuel system problems, I can imagine you guys continuing to screw around with 3 dollar lawn mower filters on your planes. The fuel filter that Aircraft spruce sells with its aluminum housing Never breaks, cracks, or get soft due to ethanol or water. Stainless Steel mesh element also impervious to ethanol and water, and does a much better job of filtering out debris from the fuel than Paper for fiber ever will. I have two of these filters in two airplanes, my carb bowls are always so clean I could drink wine out of them if I wanted to The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars, but it is designed to be cleaned and lasts forever. The Aircraft spruce filter is not anywhere near as expensive as having an engine failure and off field landing with aircraft damage due to clogged or faulty cheap filter that can fail in any number of ways... That alone is more than enough reason for me to get a use a good quality filter in my Kolb. Not everyone knows these facts about filters, there is always something to be learned, but having read this you now have the information you need... If you hurt yourself in the forced landing as well as tear up your plane due to a cheap plastic filter, you will really wish you had been a little smarter... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/micron10.php Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257999#257999 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:10 AM PST US From: HGRAFF@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, I Promised a follow-up on getting our Mark III classical into the air for the first time. Well, here is how it went on the second day, a week later. First, we checked the Pitot/static and found badly leaking conditions in both, under the cabin connection to Pitot/static itself. (a 50MPH setting would leak off in 2 seconds) The spring clamps weren't good enough, so we added a safety wire temporary cure. Upon the subsequent flight Stalls changed from 45 to 42, which is very close to the reported stall of a Mark III Classic for sale like ours, at 41 mph. Cruise increased from 45 to 50 but is still limited by engine RPM which I couldn't let go past redline. Ground adjusting the prop is a next task. The Pitot/Static is still located on top of the nose, about 4 inches high. We also raised the right flap by two threads at the rod end, but to no avail at all of mitigating the strong left roll force, which is most annoying. Our engine turns clockwise. Trim tab(s) will be needed. The question remains whether rudder or aileron or both. Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme. Yes, you can get used to it, but is definitely a-typical. I wonder if some other Kolb owners have done things about it, such like adding reflex (Fletcher) trim tabs, as are employed on the Grumman Yankee. It puts some feedback into the elevator, so it won't feel like a helicopter cyclic control. I flew for almost an hour, and there wasn't anything extraordinarily different from the first flight, except my pitch control had acclimated. Did I feel real comfortable, like I usually do in an aircraft? No, not yet! BTW, an alternate pilot, intending to high speed taxi down the runway, got surprised with a takeoff, almost scraped the left wing on the ground then bobbed up & down the length of the fortunately very long runway. (He did not want to make another try at it!). Things to do at this point are: 1 try and test trim tabs. 2. Ground adjust Prop for more pitch. Maybe I can get better climb/cruise performance. I am limited on both with staying under redline RPM. 3. Use of a hand-held (?!) GPS to check on speeds. Herb, Mark IIIc, 246KT ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:18 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning > Mike You say "A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any other airplane". Where did THAT come from ? Sorry, but I don't believe that for a minute. Not even a half-minute. I've seen LOTS of planes spun, with no fatalities. Even done a few myself, and I'm still here. On Aug 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > > russ(at)rkiphoto.com wrote: >> >> >> I do think a spin is a stable maneuver in that it doesn't change by >> itself. The pilot can either let the aircraft keep spinning, or bring >> it out of the spin. >> > > > A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any other > airplane. Just like the non aviation witness be the best to > determine how an airplane was flying before a crash, don't believe > everything you hear and read. > > The above is not true, a spin can and usually does change a lot > depending on how many turns you go through. This is why many > people do not spin past 3 turns or so, spins have a very bad habit > if tightening up, getting flatter, and doing all sorts of strange > things depending on the airplane and how it is loaded. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257990#257990 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:00 PM PST US From: neilsenrm@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, Herb Please check that your elevator, horizontal stabilizer, controls all, are b uilt per the plans. Also verify that you are within CG ranges. "Pitch contr ol sensitivity is still extreme" This is not normal, something is not right . Pitch is light but easily controlled. Kolb MKIIICs fly a bit nose low causing a high pressure area where it sound s like you have you static source. You would be better off disconnecting th e static line from the airspeed indicator till you get a better static sour ce. I will try again. It would appear that your wings are poorly rigged. Get th e adjustable wing attachments from New Kolb and you should be able to fix t he "strong left roll" A Kolb MKIIC built to the plans is a nice=C2-flying airplane. It is not b y definition stable. It will divert from level flight in pitch and roll but is very easy to=C2-control. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: HGRAFF@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:52:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, =C2- I Promised a follow-up on getting our Mark III classical=C2-into the air for the first time.=C2-Well, here is how it went on the second day,=C2- a week later.=C2- First, we checked the Pitot/static and found badly leaking conditions in bo th, under the cabin connection to Pitot/static itself. (a 50MPH setting wou ld leak off in 2 seconds) The spring clamps weren't good enough, so we adde d a safety wire temporary cure.=C2-Upon the=C2-subsequent flight Stalls changed from 45 to 42, =C2-which is very close to the reported stall of a Mark III Classic for sale like ours, at 41 mph.=C2- Cruise increased fr om 45 to 50 but is still limited by engine RPM which I couldn't let go past redline. Ground adjusting the prop is a next task. The Pitot/Static is sti ll located on top of the nose, about=C2-4 inches high. We also raised the right flap by two threads at the rod end, but to no avai l at all of mitigating the strong left roll force, which is most annoying. Our engine turns clockwise. Trim tab(s) will be needed. The question remain s whether rudder or aileron or both. Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme. Yes, you can get used to it, bu t is definitely a-typical. I wonder if some other Kolb owners have done thi ngs about it, such like adding reflex (Fletcher) trim tabs, as are employed on=C2- the Grumman Yankee. It puts some feedback into the elevator, so i t won't feel like a helicopter cyclic control. I flew for almost an hour, and there wasn't anything extraordinarily differ ent from the first flight, except my pitch control had acclimated.=C2-=C2 -Did I feel real comfortable, like I usually do in an aircraft?=C2- No, not yet! BTW, an alternate pilot, intending to high speed taxi down the runway, got surprised with a takeoff, almost scraped the left wing on the ground then b obbed up & down=C2-the length of=C2- the=C2-fortunately very long run way. (He did not want to make=C2-another try at it!). Things to do at this point are: 1 try and test trim tabs. 2. Ground adjust Prop for more pitch. Maybe I can get better climb/cruise performance. I am limited on both with staying=C2-under redline RPM. 3. Use of a=C2-hand-held (?!)=C2-GPS to check on speeds. Herb,=C2- Mark IIIc, 246KT ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: Richard Girard To the man who owns a hammer all the world's a nail. Rick Girard do not archive On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:01 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > > funderp47 wrote: > > > > > > A friend landed with his Phantom a few months ago, and I noticed the > paper media > > was just sloshing around inside his G1 looking filter. It was a > Purolator, and > > the paper was simply glued to the outlet end of the canister. It had come > loose > > and was just floating around. He shut it down before takeoff, and when I > > walked over, he said gas was dripping down from the engine. > > > > > > > Given the many stories like this, and the EAA's statistics which say that > about half of all engine failures in experimental airplanes are caused by > fuel system problems, I can imagine you guys continuing to screw around with > 3 dollar lawn mower filters on your planes. > > The fuel filter that Aircraft spruce sells with its aluminum housing Never > breaks, cracks, or get soft due to ethanol or water. Stainless Steel mesh > element also impervious to ethanol and water, and does a much better job of > filtering out debris from the fuel than Paper for fiber ever will. I have > two of these filters in two airplanes, my carb bowls are always so clean I > could drink wine out of them if I wanted to > > The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars, but it is designed to be > cleaned and lasts forever. The Aircraft spruce filter is not anywhere near > as expensive as having an engine failure and off field landing with aircraft > damage due to clogged or faulty cheap filter that can fail in any number of > ways... That alone is more than enough reason for me to get a use a good > quality filter in my Kolb. Not everyone knows these facts about filters, > there is always something to be learned, but having read this you now have > the information you need... If you hurt yourself in the forced landing as > well as tear up your plane due to a cheap plastic filter, you will really > wish you had been a little smarter... > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/micron10.php > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have > !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257999#257999 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, From: "Rex Rodebush" Herb, Where is your horiz. stab. L.E. with respect to the fuselage tube? Kolb has changed this location several times on the Xtra. Don't know about the Classic. I seem to remember John Hauck said once that the pitch felt like "flying on a bubble" and corrected it with a relocation of the L.E. of the stabilizer. I may be wrong. John, any comments? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258028#258028 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:03 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning On Aug 16, 2009, at 3:33 PM, russ kinne wrote: > >> Mike > You say "A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any > other airplane". Where did THAT come from ? > Sorry, but I don't believe that for a minute. Not even a half- > minute. I've seen LOTS of planes spun, with no fatalities. > Even done a few myself, and I'm still here. > > On Aug 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, JetPilot wrote: > >> >> >> russ(at)rkiphoto.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> I do think a spin is a stable maneuver in that it doesn't change by >>> itself. The pilot can either let the aircraft keep spinning, or >>> bring >>> it out of the spin. >>> >> >> >> A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any other >> airplane. Just like the non aviation witness be the best to >> determine how an airplane was flying before a crash, don't believe >> everything you hear and read. >> >> The above is not true, a spin can and usually does change a lot >> depending on how many turns you go through. This is why many >> people do not spin past 3 turns or so, spins have a very bad habit >> if tightening up, getting flatter, and doing all sorts of strange >> things depending on the airplane and how it is loaded. >> >> Mike >> >> -------- >> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast >> as you could have !!! >> >> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257990#257990 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, From: Richard Girard Herb, Rick Neilsen has some good points that you should follow up on IMHO. The thing that disturbs me about your reports are your group's failure to do the basics. For instance, "Cruise increased from 45 to 50 but is still limited by engine RPM which I couldn't let go past redline. Ground adjusting the prop is a next task." indicates you've never done a static run up with the aircraft restrained in order to properly set the prop pitch. Very bad form, you can harm your engine as well as yourself by making this mistake. For what it's worth, Stop, take a step back and consider what you guys are doing. Don't start bandaiding problems without figuring out the cause. Get some hands on help from someone familiar with the aircraft. What you perceive as overly sensitive pitch may be just being ham handed. I can speak from experience here, I was all over the sky on my first flight until I calmed down and started flying the airplane as it flies rather than trying to impose myself on it. We just lost a member for what appears to be preventable causes and we don't need another statistic. Rick Girard do not archive On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:41 PM, wrote: > Herb > > > Please check that your elevator, horizontal stabilizer, controls all, are > built per the plans. Also verify that you are within CG ranges. "Pitch > control sensitivity is still extreme" This is not normal, something is not > right. Pitch is light but easily controlled. > > > Kolb MKIIICs fly a bit nose low causing a high pressure area where it > sounds like you have you static source. You would be better off > disconnecting the static line from the airspeed indicator till you get a > better static source. > > > I will try again. It would appear that your wings are poorly rigged. Get > the adjustable wing attachments from New Kolb and you should be able to fix > the "strong left roll" > > > A Kolb MKIIC built to the plans is a nice flying airplane. It is not by > definition stable. It will divert from level flight in pitch and roll but is > very easy to control. > > > Rick Neilsen > > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HGRAFF@aol.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:52:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, > > I Promised a follow-up on getting our Mark III classical into the air for > the first time. Well, here is how it went on the second day, a week later. > > First, we checked the Pitot/static and found badly leaking conditions in > both, under the cabin connection to Pitot/static itself. (a 50MPH setting > would leak off in 2 seconds) The spring clamps weren't good enough, so we > added a safety wire temporary cure. Upon the subsequent flight Stalls > changed from 45 to 42, which is very close to the reported stall of a Mark > III Classic for sale like ours, at 41 mph. Cruise increased from 45 to 50 > but is still limited by engine RPM which I couldn't let go past redline. > Ground adjusting the prop is a next task. The Pitot/Static is still located > on top of the nose, about 4 inches high. > > We also raised the right flap by two threads at the rod end, but to no > avail at all of mitigating the strong left roll force, which is most > annoying. Our engine turns clockwise. Trim tab(s) will be needed. The > question remains whether rudder or aileron or both. > > Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme. Yes, you can get used to it, > but is definitely a-typical. I wonder if some other Kolb owners have done > things about it, such like adding reflex (Fletcher) trim tabs, as are > employed on the Grumman Yankee. It puts some feedback into the elevator, so > it won't feel like a helicopter cyclic control. > > I flew for almost an hour, and there wasn't anything extraordinarily > different from the first flight, except my pitch control had > acclimated. Did I feel real comfortable, like I usually do in an aircraft? > No, not yet! > > BTW, an alternate pilot, intending to high speed taxi down the runway, got > surprised with a takeoff, almost scraped the left wing on the ground then > bobbed up & down the length of the fortunately very long runway. > (He did not want to make another try at it!). > > Things to do at this point are: > > 1 try and test trim tabs. > 2. Ground adjust Prop for more pitch. > Maybe I can get better climb/cruise performance. I am limited on both with > staying under redline RPM. > 3. Use of a hand-held (?!) GPS to check on speeds. > > Herb, > Mark IIIc, 246KT > > ------------------------------ > > * > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:32 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning At 10:22 AM 8/16/09 -0500, you wrote: > >Wouldn't the aileron hold your FF level in a low powered mush? > >I never got a chance to "horse around" with the FF more than I could do in >the traffic patterns of OSH and LAL. Been so long since I flew it I can't >remember, but there was something a little unusual about it when slipping, I >think. I never flew the original with the huge ailerons, only the ones with >smaller ailerons. > John H, I could not hold the wings level in a low powered mush with the original ailerons or the shortened ailerons. After I mounted the VG's, I did not have to worry about picking up a wing with the rudder as the ailerons were much more effective. With the VG's, the FireFly side and forward slips very well with or without flaperons. In a side slip one can hold landing strip alignment into a 20 mph cross wind. My rudder is a little longer than that used in the original design. I did not like the bow over the top of the rudder and so I added that cut off area to the trailing edge. After adding streamlining to the trailing edge, I believe the trailing edge has been displaced two inches to the rear. Some one on the list asked me about how the FireFly reacted to stalling in a side slip during a landing approach. I added that subject to my short list, but I have not gotten around to running the test as I was finishing fuel flow tests with the Victor 1+. When I finish mounting the MZ 34, I will climb to altitude and perform the test. As far as mounting the MZ 34, it is on the cage and everything is mounted. I am building up the start and magneto kill switches and the regulator mounting plate. When this is mounted, I can complete all engine wiring. To save weight, I have stripped out all the old Victor 1+ control guides, as I have only three control functions instead of six. And I have to come up with some way to control low and high speed air mixture controls inside the cockpit. Off Kolb subject, today I purchased a disassembled Thundergull. Some hangar rash, but nothing serious. Will put it into the barn until I get the FireFly back into the air. It looks like a nice way to get back into winter flying. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "Kirkds" Can the wire downstream from the fuse handle the 20 amps ok? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258048#258048 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:11 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: kolb fire star 2 question From: "dfcpac" hi all, i'm new to the list, i just bought a fire star 2. it was set up for a single seat. i put the rear seat in and before i take a passanger i was wondering the weight limit. if i go by listed kolb gross it about 50 lbs? has anyone put a 190lb passenger in the back. i weigh 197. will this work. thanks dan carley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258049#258049 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:55 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "Thom Riddle" The builder is a commercial electrician so I am assuming the wires were sized correctly. If the wire was sized right, it will handle 20A since that is the size fuse Jabiru recommends. I didn't check to see what size of wire it is but I assume it is ok now since it is not subject to the conditions it experienced when the fuse blew. The most it was ever subjected to was about 15A because that was the size of fuse in it when I bought it and when it blew when the battery was low and all electrical loads were applied. When the flying season tapers off I'll do a total load check and then know for certain its max current draw. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258050#258050 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:41 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, > Where is your horiz. stab. L.E. with respect to the fuselage tube? Kolb has changed this location several times on the Xtra. Don't know about the Classic. I seem to remember John Hauck said once that the pitch felt like "flying on a bubble" and corrected it with a relocation of the L.E. of the stabilizer. > > I may be wrong. John, any comments? Hi Rex: I haven't responded to this one because the last two posts of tests flight seem very flakey. There are an awful lot of little things that can be causing all their problems, and I would not know where to start to offer any help. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:37 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning At 12:27 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > I have done hundreds of spins in a Cessna 150 Aerobat, but your > position and view in the spin is just insane crazy. Do you do that > often ? How many turns have you done ? That is a really cool > video, I hope you keep making new ones. > >Mike I wouldn't do a spin in anything I wasn't real familiar with flying. I have been flying the same plane for 10 years, and one very much like it for 10 years before that - hours maybe 2,000+ same type. I've seen a Firestar put thru a lot more than a spin....loops, hammerheads etc. but not by me and the wings didn't come off. I had never done a spin before last year - never been in a plane that was spun. I put an extra seat belt on the plane, just for the occasion that's 2 seat belts + the shoulder harnesses .........yee haaa! It's not a bad feeling at all, after you do the first one or two. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:04 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "Kirkds" With a 20 amp fuse the wire should be 12 AWG minimum. Maybe its only 14 AWG is why he had a 15 amp fuse in it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258057#258057 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:12 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience > The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars > > Mike Mike B: If I was a young jet pilot, I probably would have one of these $80.00 fuel filters installed in my old mkIII. Since I am an old retiree, tired, broke, and disoriented, I am going to keep using the same old fuel filter I have used since first installed on my Ultrastar in 1984. Only mod I did to it was get rid of the glass cylinder and replace it with an appropriately sized piece of aluminum tubing. Reason: Glass cylinder cracked first night of installation. I either installed it incorrectly, or it was a bad one. John W used the same type filter with the glass cylinder and never had a problem with it. It has had a lot of fuel pumped through it in the last 4,000 + hours. About once every 50 to 100 hours I check the little nylon element to see how much crud I have collected. Always going to be some in there. If it is not too dirty, I blow it out best I can, and get another 50 to 100 hours out of it. Depending on the length of the next flight, I'll take one or a couple spare elements with me. Easy to change out in a matter of minutes. In 2,800 + 912 engine hours I have had the engine quit twice. Both times in flight. Once in Mississippi and one in Texas. Once because I discovered the 912 will not run on water. The other because the 912 will not run with a fuel filter element that is completely sealed with tiny nylon filiments that were washed out of a new fuel pump hose into my gas tank. In either case, if I had had a D-10 Caterpiller fuel filter system, I would have still had to deal with a forced landing. Reason: Pilot error. Each incident I did not drain fuel into a clear glass container and inspect it for water and contaminents after fueling and prior to takeoff. A good record for engine. Bad record for pilot. ;-( These filters can still be purchased for around $10.00 or less. The filter replacements come in packets of three elements and 6 rubber seals. Takes two 1/2 inch wrenches to disassemble the filters. Wow! Looks like they are up to 13.99 before shipping. The price of inflation. Do a google search and come up with a cheaper source. I post this here so you all can see what I am talking about. http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filter-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: Richard Girard Thom, Getting a copy of Bob Nuckolls' book, "The Aeroelectric Connection" and joining his forum here on the Matronics Lists is money and time well spent. He's a great guy and real guru to those doing aircraft electrics. Rick On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Thom Riddle wrote: > > The builder is a commercial electrician so I am assuming the wires were > sized correctly. > > If the wire was sized right, it will handle 20A since that is the size fuse > Jabiru recommends. I didn't check to see what size of wire it is but I > assume it is ok now since it is not subject to the conditions it experienced > when the fuse blew. The most it was ever subjected to was about 15A because > that was the size of fuse in it when I bought it and when it blew when the > battery was low and all electrical loads were applied. > > When the flying season tapers off I'll do a total load check and then know > for certain its max current draw. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > Jabiru 2200A #1574 > Tennessee Prop 64x34 > > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a > simple system that works. > - John Gaule > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258050#258050 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:26 PM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience At 06:59 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars >> >>Mike > > >Mike B: > >If I was a young jet pilot, I probably would have one of these >$80.00 fuel filters installed in my old mkIII. Since I am "an old >retiree, tired, broke, and disoriented", Read that "grumpy old man"..... I'm allowed, since I'm getting there too. (Is 58 old?) - & remember that crab diner I bought you at Etowah - before you answer. > I am going to keep using the same old fuel filter I have used > since first installed on my Ultrastar in 1984. Only mod I did to > it was get rid of the glass cylinder and replace it with an > appropriately sized piece of aluminum tubing. Reason: Glass > cylinder cracked first night of installation. I either installed > it incorrectly - snip -or it was a bad one. Yes..... you did - mine never broke either - after 1,000 hrs and it is nice to look at it every time you do a pre-flight and see that clear gas (or some crap in the filter) ...just makes me feel good! >John W used the same type filter with the glass cylinder and never >had a problem with it. > >john h >mkIII And just to correct a pervious post - I have seen someone able to tear the wings off a FireStar "besides you" Unfortunately he didn't fare as well. "Hauck/Hawk" - what a perfect name for this kind of stuff. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: Richard Girard John, Take a look at Jegs or Summit Racing. Lots of options for fuel filters from less that $10 to over $100. Most that offer a barb type fitting are 3/8" but a couple of reducers would take care of that. I think they have the "clearview" type for right around $10. Rick On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:59 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars > >> >> Mike >> > > > Mike B: > > If I was a young jet pilot, I probably would have one of these $80.00 fuel > filters installed in my old mkIII. Since I am an old retiree, tired, broke, > and disoriented, I am going to keep using the same old fuel filter I have > used since first installed on my Ultrastar in 1984. Only mod I did to it > was get rid of the glass cylinder and replace it with an appropriately sized > piece of aluminum tubing. Reason: Glass cylinder cracked first night of > installation. I either installed it incorrectly, or it was a bad one. John > W used the same type filter with the glass cylinder and never had a problem > with it. It has had a lot of fuel pumped through it in the last 4,000 + > hours. About once every 50 to 100 hours I check the little nylon element to > see how much crud I have collected. Always going to be some in there. If > it is not too dirty, I blow it out best I can, and get another 50 to 100 > hours out of it. Depending on the length of the next flight, I'll take one > or a couple spare elements with me. Easy to change out in a matter of > minutes. > > In 2,800 + 912 engine hours I have had the engine quit twice. Both times > in flight. Once in Mississippi and one in Texas. Once because I discovered > the 912 will not run on water. The other because the 912 will not run with > a fuel filter element that is completely sealed with tiny nylon filiments > that were washed out of a new fuel pump hose into my gas tank. In either > case, if I had had a D-10 Caterpiller fuel filter system, I would have still > had to deal with a forced landing. Reason: Pilot error. Each incident I > did not drain fuel into a clear glass container and inspect it for water and > contaminents after fueling and prior to takeoff. A good record for engine. > Bad record for pilot. ;-( > > These filters can still be purchased for around $10.00 or less. The filter > replacements come in packets of three elements and 6 rubber seals. Takes > two 1/2 inch wrenches to disassemble the filters. > > Wow! Looks like they are up to 13.99 before shipping. The price of > inflation. Do a google search and come up with a cheaper source. I post > this here so you all can see what I am talking about. > > > http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filter-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx > > john h > mkIII > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:23 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience Possum: I caught that previously, but kept my mouth shut. Didn't want to hurt your feelings and watch you get your panties in a wad over it. ;-) Yes, that has been a while ago, over 19 years now. Time is flying. Was a sad day. Happened about two months after mine, May 1990, I think. Well...we have done a lot of flying since then. What a guy he was!!! Wish he was still around. john h - My call sign in RVN was Hawk 36. mkIII And just to correct a pervious post - I have seen someone able to tear the wings off a FireStar "besides you" Unfortunately he didn't fare as well. "Hauck/Hawk" - what a perfect name for this kind of stuff. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:22 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience Most of my engine instruments come from Summit. My landing light came from Summit. I posted info on the Purolator for the benefit of those that did not know about that type filter. My old one is still good. I am so happy they still make them and the elements. Mine has 5/16 barbs, but pushes in 1/4 Gates neoprene line pretty easy. A lot of folks on this List like clear fuel line so they can see their fuel. I use black neoprene for fuel, but thinking about getting some clear tubing for my oil lines. Be nice to have something to watch. ;-) Thanks, Rick G. john h mkIII John, Take a look at Jegs or Summit Racing. Lots of options for fuel filters from less that $10 to over $100. Most that offer a barb type fitting are 3/8" but a couple of reducers would take care of that. I think they have the "clearview" type for right around $10. Rick ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: kolb fire star 2 question From: "dalewhelan" I weigh 185 and have taken passengers that out weigh me by a little bit. I have been told there are 5 and seven rib wings and have been advised to have the 7 rib wings if you carry passengers. I forgot what gross is, I know my normal 129 pound passenger is not close. -------- Dale Whelan 503 powered Firestar II Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258128#258128 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.