Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (Tony Oldman)
2. 03:56 AM - clear filters (Ted Cowan)
3. 05:29 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Thom Riddle)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (Blumax008@aol.com)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (robert bean)
6. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck)
7. 09:57 AM - Re: hours vs experience (JetPilot)
8. 10:04 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (JetPilot)
9. 10:19 AM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (JetPilot)
10. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck)
11. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (John Hauck)
12. 11:10 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Thom Riddle)
13. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (Richard Girard)
14. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (JAMES BEARD)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (Beauford T)
16. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: 447 problem (JAMES BEARD)
17. 03:45 PM - Re: hours vs experience (JetPilot)
18. 03:55 PM - Re: Spinning (JetPilot)
19. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck)
20. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: Spinning (russ kinne)
21. 04:38 PM - Fuel Filter Failure (Gary)
22. 04:55 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (John Hauck)
23. 05:20 PM - polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (Thom Riddle)
24. 05:40 PM - Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (John Hauck)
25. 05:43 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (robert bean)
26. 05:52 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (John Hauck)
27. 05:53 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (zeprep251@aol.com)
28. 06:08 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (robert bean)
29. 06:11 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (John Hauck)
30. 06:37 PM - Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (Charlie England)
31. 07:26 PM - Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (neilsenrm@comcast.net)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: First Flight follow-up, |
My MK111c is not difficult in pitch, to get it to porpus you would need
to put in a lot of control movement before it gave you any problem. It
will peal off to the left if trimmed to fly hands off and you let the
stick go. It is not a sudden or violent move to the left. If you fly
solo from the right seat it will head that way hands off, two up it will
stay straight . If you trim the aircraft for hands off flight and
trickle off the power it will drop the nose in a stall, then when it
picks a bit of speed up it will lift the nose again until it runs out of
air speed and the process is repeated. It will do this with no pilot
input,you will of course loose some altitude ,nothing happens fast
,nothing unprodictable happens. Not to be tried close to the ground.
I am not a builder, but do agree with those that suggest you need to
check the CG and rigging.
These are not difficult machines to fly with the correct training, in my
experiance they do nothing suddenly or violently .99% of my flying has
been in ultralight aircraft so may be my expectations are different from
those with a GA back ground.
Regards
Downunder
MK111c
400hrs
503
----- Original Message -----
From: neilsenrm@comcast.net
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up,
Herb
Please check that your elevator, horizontal stabilizer, controls all,
are built per the plans. Also verify that you are within CG ranges.
"Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme" This is not normal,
something is not right. Pitch is light but easily controlled.
Kolb MKIIICs fly a bit nose low causing a high pressure area where it
sounds like you have you static source. You would be better off
disconnecting the static line from the airspeed indicator till you get a
better static source.
I will try again. It would appear that your wings are poorly rigged.
Get the adjustable wing attachments from New Kolb and you should be able
to fix the "strong left roll"
A Kolb MKIIC built to the plans is a nice flying airplane. It is not
by definition stable. It will divert from level flight in pitch and roll
but is very easy to control.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: HGRAFF@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:52:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up,
I Promised a follow-up on getting our Mark III classical into the air
for the first time. Well, here is how it went on the second day, a week
later.
First, we checked the Pitot/static and found badly leaking conditions
in both, under the cabin connection to Pitot/static itself. (a 50MPH
setting would leak off in 2 seconds) The spring clamps weren't good
enough, so we added a safety wire temporary cure. Upon the subsequent
flight Stalls changed from 45 to 42, which is very close to the
reported stall of a Mark III Classic for sale like ours, at 41 mph.
Cruise increased from 45 to 50 but is still limited by engine RPM which
I couldn't let go past redline. Ground adjusting the prop is a next
task. The Pitot/Static is still located on top of the nose, about 4
inches high.
We also raised the right flap by two threads at the rod end, but to no
avail at all of mitigating the strong left roll force, which is most
annoying. Our engine turns clockwise. Trim tab(s) will be needed. The
question remains whether rudder or aileron or both.
Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme. Yes, you can get used to
it, but is definitely a-typical. I wonder if some other Kolb owners have
done things about it, such like adding reflex (Fletcher) trim tabs, as
are employed on the Grumman Yankee. It puts some feedback into the
elevator, so it won't feel like a helicopter cyclic control.
I flew for almost an hour, and there wasn't anything extraordinarily
different from the first flight, except my pitch control had acclimated.
Did I feel real comfortable, like I usually do in an aircraft? No, not
yet!
BTW, an alternate pilot, intending to high speed taxi down the runway,
got surprised with a takeoff, almost scraped the left wing on the ground
then bobbed up & down the length of the fortunately very long runway.
(He did not want to make another try at it!).
Things to do at this point are:
1 try and test trim tabs.
2. Ground adjust Prop for more pitch.
Maybe I can get better climb/cruise performance. I am limited on both
with staying under redline RPM.
3. Use of a hand-held (?!) GPS to check on speeds.
Herb,
Mark IIIc, 246KT
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Message 2
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My experience has shown there is or was three types of clear glass filters
to which you were speaking. One type has a flat cast or alum stem in the
inside which screws up into the cap. The flat threads in there will quickly
disintegrate and will come apart with vibration. The second is more scare
with more meat and I dont know how well that hangs in. The third and best
has a round threaded hollow rod, chrome plated I think and has holes to wire
tie the filter twister nut to keep it in place. That is the best. Had a
couple of the flat ones come apart if you tighten them much. I always wire
tie the filter inside just in case. Ted Cowan
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Subject: | Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs |
Rick,
Thanks for the lead to the book and list. I'll check it out.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258153#258153
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
I wasn't going to get into this possibly volitile conversation about fuel
filters but I had to add my two cents worth...for what that's worth &
something tells me it ain't going to be worth much.
Been flying these contraptions since summer of '78 or '79...hell, I forgot
but it's been a long damn time. Everything from a Sachs, to a Yamaha 15hp
(what a piece of crap that was), to a Cuyuna (another piece of crap), to the
wonderful world of Rotax.
I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any trouble
with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk about?
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
This talk is really about ethanol. I never had any fuel filter
problems either... until now.
More problems will crop up.
BB
On 17, Aug 2009, at 9:27 AM, Blumax008@aol.com wrote:
> I wasn't going to get into this possibly volitile conversation
> about fuel filters but I had to add my two cents worth...for what
> that's worth & something tells me it ain't going to be worth much.
>
> Been flying these contraptions since summer of '78 or '79...hell, I
> forgot but it's been a long damn time. Everything from a Sachs, to
> a Yamaha 15hp (what a piece of crap that was), to a Cuyuna (another
> piece of crap), to the wonderful world of Rotax.
>
> I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any
> trouble with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk about?
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
Bill C?
I reckon some of us have not been as fortunate as you have after all
these years.
I quit using paper element fuel filters when I started building and
flying Kolbs in 1984. Didn't take too long to find out a couple drops
of moisture caused the element to expand and shut off the fuel. Most of
the time not enough to kill the Cuyuna completely, but enough to prevent
maintaining altitude.
I remember flying back to my cow pasture in Titus, Alabama, from a cow
pasture between Woodville, Florida, and Natural Bridge. Can't remember
that gentleman's name that used to let me land there when I was visiting
Brother Jim in Woodville. Anyhow, was following I-10, in my Ultrastar,
between Quincy and Marianna, FL. Beautiful day, wind in my face,
watching the cars and 18 wheelers passing me, not far below, when the
little Cuyuna started losing power. I headed for the nearest tree
studded pasture full of horses. Got on the ground, wiggled wires,
scratched my head, got the Cuyuna restarted, took off, and headed up the
interstate for Alabama. Next day, at Gantt International Airport, I was
still scratching my head. I had made 5 takeoffs, followed immediately
by 5 forced landings. Took me that long to get around to changing out
the little paper filament fuel filter. Problem solved until the next
time it got a little moisture in it. Discovered the fuel filter I am
using today. No more moisture and fuel filter problems.
I still use paper elements in diesel and gas powered tractors, trucks
and lawn mowers. Guess they have updated their paper elements to be
moisture tolerable. Still don't want to use one in my mkIII.
What kind of fuel filter is Bill C using? Maybe I ought to get one of
those.
john h
mkIII
I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any
trouble with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk about?
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> I quit using paper element fuel filters when I started building and flying Kolbs
in 1984. Didn't take too long to find out a couple drops of moisture caused
the element to expand and shut off the fuel.
>
>
So you have also had an engine failure due to a cheap fuel filters, this is a very
common story as a previously pointed out. One of your Rotax 912 failures
may have also very well been avoided by using the better Aircraft Sprue fuel
filter, given the much larger filter area, and the dual filter screens, those
fibers that completely clogged your filter may have not completely clogged the
Aircraft Spruce filter. As I stated before, a lot of filter area is important,
especially in an airplane.
John, you seem to have found a filter that is better than the plastic ones, but
not as good as it should be. Here is the problem, the design of the filter you
have has changed over the years, that model has been made in China and is now
total garbage, I have heard of the threads stripping, leaks, and other problems.
Those buying your filter now may be in for a big surprise. Those buying
the little plastic filters from the auto store are even at greater risk. For
those that want to be Guinea Pigs, keep using those plastic and other inexpensive
filters as the Chinese find ways to make them even cheaper every year.
As far as the cost, we all make our choices, I am not some super rich guy that
can just go out and throw money around either. I make my choices, and the 80
dollar filter is a priority for me, I did without other things I would have liked
in order to buy these filters. As I said before, the 80 dollars is cheaper
than any forced landing that results in aircraft damage, and its the bargain
of the century when compared to hurting yourself and going to the hospital.
We have seen a lot of aircraft damage and even a couple guys seriously hurt due
to poor fuel system design over the years here. There is a good reason as to
why the EAA says that about 50 % of engine failures in experimental airplanes
are caused by fuel system problems. I have flown with cheap fuel filters and
been lucky, but I continually research and learn especially when I read about
dangers and problems such as this one. I am honest enough to know when I have
made a mistake even if I have been lucky and not paid any consequences. I am
also smart enough to learn from and correct mistakes I have made. There are
many out there that will take good advice, and there are always a few here on
the list like Bill that like to talk big on the list, and cant stand to be told
something by a younger guy that has done his research and knows what he is
talking about. That is fine, they are free to make their own choices, and will
have no one but themselves to blame when the odds catch up to them.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258211#258211
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Subject: | Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs |
aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
> Thom, Getting a copy of Bob Nuckolls' book, "The Aeroelectric Connection" and
joining his forum here on the Matronics Lists is money and time well spent.
>
Thom knowing the load capability of his system would not have made any difference
here, as one does not know how much an almost dead battery is going to draw.
This incident was not about numbers, it was about the poor judgment of using a
landing light during the day while trying to charge a dead battery... No amount
of numbers and aero electric books will save someone from this type of bad
choice.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258213#258213
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Subject: | Re: First Flight follow-up, |
The anti trim tabs to fix your pitch instability are one of the worst ideas I have
heard in a long time. A number of people, including myself have told you
that a properly rigged and balanced Kolb is very easy to control in pitch. This
point seems to have been totally ignored by you.
I also gave you very good advice on rigging your wings correctly to correct the
rolling tendency, and again you have ignored good advice and are talking about
more trim tabs to hide the problem instead of correcting it.
I could give you some good information on Prop pitch, but I think I would be wasting
my time given that you have ignored the other advice I took the time to
give you. If you want the advice, let me know and I will take the time to post
it, but I wont waste my time giving advice to someone that ignores it.
Given your attitude towards solving your problems, and ignoring the good advice
you have gotten here, I think there is a high possibility of you crashing and
destroying your airplane, and I just hope you don't take any passengers with
you when you do it. I also hope you have anyone that thinks about flying your
Kolb read these two threads first, they should know what they are getting into.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258218#258218
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
> So you have also had an engine failure due to a cheap fuel filters
>
> Mike
Mike B:
I would think you would have gotten the hint from my post that I am pretty
happy with a fuel filter I have been flying with since 1984, and well over
4,000 hours.
john h
mkIII
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Subject: | Re: First Flight follow-up, |
> The anti trim tabs to fix your pitch instability are one of the worst
> ideas I have heard in a long time. A number of people, including myself
> have told you that a properly rigged and balanced Kolb is very easy to
> control in pitch. This point seems to have been totally ignored by you.
>
> I also gave you very good advice on rigging your wings correctly to
> correct the rolling tendency, and again you have ignored good advice and
> are talking about more trim tabs to hide the problem instead of correcting
> it.
>
> I could give you some good information on Prop pitch, but I think I would
> be wasting my time given that you have ignored the other advice I took the
> time to give you. If you want the advice, let me know and I will take the
> time to post it, but I wont waste my time giving advice to someone that
> ignores it.
>
> Given your attitude towards solving your problems, and ignoring the good
> advice you have gotten here, I think there is a high possibility of you
> crashing and destroying your airplane, and I just hope you don't take any
> passengers with you when you do it. I also hope you have anyone that
> thinks about flying your Kolb read these two threads first, they should
> know what they are getting into.
>
> Mike
Mike B:
I never give advice on this List.
I am not qualified to give another pilot/builder advice over the internet
when I am not absolutely familiar with what his problem is, what he is
trying to do, or if he is really getting the description of the problem,
etc., to me accurately and I am understanding him accurately.
I just don't do it. I don't want the responsibility I led someone the wrong
direction and they got hurt because of advice.
The only thing I feel good about doing is sharing my experience, good and
bad, then letting folks decide for themselves if they want to do it my way,
or try something else. I leave that up to them.
john h
mkIII
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs |
Mr. Jet Pilot,
Please note that my original post was directed to those who operate Jabiru Powered
Kolbs. I hope that those few of us who do operate Jabiru Powered Kolbs can
avoid this situation in the future. THAT was the purpose of the post.
To quote you.... This incident was not about numbers, it was about the poor judgment
of using a landing light during the day while trying to charge a dead battery...
Following is an excerpt of what I said in my initial post on this subject:
...you may have already learned what I learned recently. If not then listen up
for it is worth knowing.... NOTE that this was directed to Jabiru operators who
may not yet have had a dead battery.
Then I told about what I learned from my experience.
You can call that POOR JUDGMENT if you want. I call it learning by doing. NOW I
have the knowledge acquired on THIS SYSTEM to know not to do that again on this
system. If I do it again, it could be fairly called Poor Judgment or Stupidity
or Bad Memory.
Note that, as I said before, I've never had this happen on any other machine I've
ever operated, either earthbound or airborne. Based on those many decades of
past experience, what happened surprised me. I've experienced many dead battery
situations in which a heavy electrical load was applied while the alternator
or generator was supplying virtually all the power due to nearly dead battery
and NEVER has this occurred in my experience, up until now.
In my opinion your post showed POOR TASTE, was JUDGMENTAL (there's that word again)
and without foundation.
"That is all I have to say about that." - Forest Gump
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258230#258230
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
Possum, Just for the record, yes, 58 is old and it will be until October
4th, then 59 will be.
Rick Girard, born October 4th, 1951
do not archive
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:28 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> > So you have also had an engine failure due to a cheap fuel filters
>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>
> Mike B:
>
> I would think you would have gotten the hint from my post that I am pretty
> happy with a fuel filter I have been flying with since 1984, and well over
> 4,000 hours.
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
Dale.. nice post. Being a newbie myself, lurking for years, I have not
had the experience of being ridiculed, but instead ignored... wonder
which hurts more. I've sent e-mails and questions to several of the
gurus, without response.. I guess they don't read their mail. Jim
"invisable" Beard MK lll X under construction, Arizona. (BTW, got my
private SEL in '76)
----- Original Message -----
From: dalewhelan<mailto:dalewhelan@earthlink.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com<mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:49 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience
<dalewhelan@earthlink.net<mailto:dalewhelan@earthlink.net>>
Hi guys, I am relatively new this forum. I started flying sailplanes
in 1974 went to general aviation in 1978, Flew hanggliders in 1982,got
my Kolb in 2008.
Sounds like I have been flying for 35 years and you should acknowledge
me as a sky god.
Here is the rest of the story
As of 1/29/1981 I had logged 7 hours
the past year I have logged about 100 hours.
I have met people that spent years and hours flying around the field.
I think they still lack experience.
I have been ridiculed by people on this site when I was looking for
answers.
I have talked to somebody in the industry about this site.
The opinion seems to be that there is good info to be found here.
The bad thing is the way new people are often treated on this site.
The treatment is such that newcomers could be driven away from an
informative site and possibly a great occupation.
I have received email from forum members talking about the elitist
mentality they have run into.
To me it seemed like financial suicide for an industry insider to post
on this site. The bickering could be directed at their business and
customers lost.
Sometimes I read the posts and it seems that people are abusive to
others that don't bow to them, often through the use of sarcasm.
It seems some folks want you to bow to them as the sky god even if
they are wrong.While I enjoy the varied view and opinions, I am not fond
of publically calling someone who has a different opinion an idiot.
Johns comment about hours vs years seems accurate. If you look for
more meaning than what he said you will find it, just realize those are
your words that were added.
I actively road raced motorcycles for 25 years. Won numerous races,
have close to a dozen championships, have thousands of miles on road
courses. I had done more after 3 years than people with 20 years of
riding and lots more miles due to the environment I rode in. Two years
ago a 14 year old girl beat me in a road race. I was riding an 80
horsepower 250, she was on a 45 horsepower 125.
People with airplanes are more fun to talk to than people with
computers.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257809#257809<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257809#257809>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kolb-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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Subject: | Re: First Flight follow-up, |
Brother Mike...
Just an advisory... perhaps you would be well advised to take
Brother Hauck's subtle advice against giving advice...under
advisement...
...feel free to consider this to be friendly advice...
(just couldn't stand it...)
Unsolicited beauford
My advice is worth what you pay fer it...
FF-076 survivor
Brandon, FL
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up,
> The anti trim tabs to fix your pitch instability are one of the
> worst
> ideas I have heard in a long time. A number of people, including
> myself
> have told you that a properly rigged and balanced Kolb is very easy
> to
> control in pitch. This point seems to have been totally ignored by
> you.
>
> I also gave you very good advice on rigging your wings correctly to
> correct the rolling tendency, and again you have ignored good advice
> and
> are talking about more trim tabs to hide the problem instead of
> correcting
> it.
>
> I could give you some good information on Prop pitch, but I think I
> would
> be wasting my time given that you have ignored the other advice I
> took the
> time to give you. If you want the advice, let me know and I will
> take the
> time to post it, but I wont waste my time giving advice to someone
> that
> ignores it.
>
> Given your attitude towards solving your problems, and ignoring the
> good
> advice you have gotten here, I think there is a high possibility of
> you
> crashing and destroying your airplane, and I just hope you don't
> take any
> passengers with you when you do it. I also hope you have anyone
> that
> thinks about flying your Kolb read these two threads first, they
> should
> know what they are getting into.
>
> Mike
Mike B:
I never give advice on this List.
I am not qualified to give another pilot/builder advice over the
internet
when I am not absolutely familiar with what his problem is, what he is
trying to do, or if he is really getting the description of the
problem,
etc., to me accurately and I am understanding him accurately.
I just don't do it. I don't want the responsibility I led someone the
wrong
direction and they got hurt because of advice.
The only thing I feel good about doing is sharing my experience, good
and
bad, then letting folks decide for themselves if they want to do it my
way,
or try something else. I leave that up to them.
john h
mkIII
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Billet: a short bar of iron or steel--- Webster. Had to look it up
myself!
----- Original Message -----
From: Blumax008@aol.com<mailto:Blumax008@aol.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com<mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 problem
In a message dated 8/14/2009 11:26:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
by0ung@brigham.net<mailto:by0ung@brigham.net> writes:
The other thing I would do is buy a really good fuel filter like
this 10 micron stainless steel filter from Aircraft Spruce.
This award winning high performance billet, stainless steel, washable
and reusable Filter is USA made, high performance billet, stainless
steel, washable and reusable superb flow filters. For those who want and
appreciate quality, these high performance billet, stainless steel,
washable and reusable filter will take you to the highest level of
filtration performance.
Let me get this straight once & for all...ARE THEY ABSOLUTELY SURE
THAT IT'S A...
"high performance billet, stainless steel, washable & reusuable?"
...by the way, what the hell is a billet?...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kolb-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
James,
People are usually pretty good about helping new guys here. If you post a question
chances are probably pretty good you will get some good answers. Of course,
some questions, etc. fall through the cracks, but its not intentional. Welcome
to the list, and I hope you come back often. Lots of good information here,
and its easier to learn from all of our mistakes rather than make your own
:)
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258278#258278
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[quote="russ(at)rkiphoto.com"]
> Mike
> You say "A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any
>
Russ,
What I meant to type was " A spin into the ground is usually fatal ". I got interrupted
while typing that and left out a critical part.
I have done hundreds of spins also, am I am still here :) I haven't had the balls
to spin my MK III though, I fly it pretty gently and I think I will pass
on spinning it...
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258283#258283
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Subject: | Re: hours vs experience |
Hi Jim B/Gang:
Do you have a copy of the "Guru List"? I haven't seen it and was
curious who is on it.
Jim, if you weren't invisible, maybe those Guru's could see you.
PVT SEL 1976. Jim B has me beat by 14 years. I didn't get my PVT
ticket until 1990. I was a late bloomer. Didn't need it until I built
the MKIII. Started flying at 29 in the Army. That was middle age or
better for that environment.
Where are you located in AZ? I am heading West for my annual surface
trek in two weeks. Plan to be on the road from two to three months, or
until I get tired and ready to head to the house. Last year I split the
State from north to south. Might be in your area. I cruised by Dale
W's place, missing him by a couple miles, last year, but didn't know it.
Plan on seeing as many of my friends as I can on the trip, from Oregon,
south and east. Don't worry, I bring my own bed, bath, kitchen, TV, and
dirt toys. Might need to borrow some tools though. ;-)
john h
mkIII
I've sent e-mails and questions to several of the gurus, without
response.. I guess they don't read their mail. Jim "invisable" Beard
MK lll X under construction, Arizona. (BTW, got my private SEL in '76)
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I can only comment on what I read -- i.e, what you say.
On Aug 17, 2009, at 6:55 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
> [quote="russ(at)rkiphoto.com"]
>> Mike
>> You say "A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any
>>
>
>
> Russ,
>
> What I meant to type was " A spin into the ground is usually fatal
> ". I got interrupted while typing that and left out a critical part.
>
> I have done hundreds of spins also, am I am still here :) I
> haven't had the balls to spin my MK III though, I fly it pretty
> gently and I think I will pass on spinning it...
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258283#258283
>
>
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Subject: | Fuel Filter Failure |
I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just casual
interest. Just recently, immediately after take-off in my Mark IIIc, I
smelled a very strong fuel odor. I elected to make an emergency landing.
By the time I got down, the fuel odor was almost overwhelming. I got out to
find gasoline sloshing around the bottom of the fuselage cage. However, to
my surprise, the source of the leak was not immediately apparent. I looked
throughout the entire fuel system, expecting to find a disconnected hose or
something. Nothing obvious. So I soaked up the gas, dried things out and
turned on the electric fuel pump. What I noticed was that the end cap was
lifting up on the glass fuel filter when the fuel was under pressure. The
type filter I had installed looks very similar, if not identical to the one
John Hauck referenced in his recent e-mail. (Ref link below).
http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filter-
for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx
As soon as I turned the pump off, the top end cap on the filter reseated to
where visually nothing appeared amiss - due to proximity of the hose clamps
holding the filter assembly together. (I had the filter installed
vertically in the fuel line.) What happened is the cast aluminum support
that runs through the filter (threaded on one end and holding the two filter
end caps together) broke in half. I'm curious as to whether anyone else has
had this type experience with the glass type filter. I had always liked the
idea of being able to visually examine the filter on each pre-flight
although I had heard of instances of the glass breaking. John's fix of
replacing the glass cylinder with an aluminum tube addresses that problem,
but would not address the type failure I had. It could certainly be that
the support rod was over-torqued. I am not sure, as I had not disassembled
the filter since acquiring the aircraft from the previous owner.
(Visually, the filter was always clean inside.) Needless to say, I've been
looking around at numerous filter designs. I therefore appreciate
everyone's input on subject. Mike, I especially appreciate your input on
the one offered by Aircraft Spruce. The Kolb List is a valuable resource of
information that has really been great. Thanks to all who contribute.
Gary Siegrist
Mark IIIc
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter Failure |
Gary S/Gang:
One of the benefits of building your own airplane is you know how it is
built and what goes into it.
I can assure you I have a good filter or I would never have attempted to
fly to places my little mkIII has carried me. Heck, I wouldn't leave
the ground if I had any doubt.
I doubt I will ever buy an airplane that someone else builds, but if I
did I think I would take a close look at a lot of things that might be
marginal, especially things that are not easily inspected.
Buying a used airplane can't be much different that buying a used car,
truck, or especially an antique tractor. You would not believe the
stuff folks hide in antique tractors from the unwary buyer.
Might be a good idea to include fuel pump on and inspect the fuel system
as part of your preflight inspection.
BTW: My fuel filter requires just a little bit of torque to make it
snug enough not to leak and not chance breaking it with a heavy hand.
john h
mkIII and unwary antique tractor buyer
I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just
casual interest.
Gary Siegrist
Mark IIIc
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Subject: | polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster |
I may be the only one on this list that DIDN'T know the truth of this and have
been laboring under a false myth for a long time. For years I've heard that gasoline
will ruin Lexan (polycarbonate) in short order so we should be careful
when fueling around our polycarbonate canopies, doors and windows.
A couple months ago, I was fueling the RANS before my partner broke it, and spilled
a good bit of 87 AKI unleaded gasoline on the polycarbonate windshield. I
uttered a couple of expletives and as quickly as possible I cleaned up the mess.
Much to my surprise, the fuel had zero affect on the polycarbonate.
I'm looking for a better way to fuel my slingshot now and decided to research the
chemical compatibility of various types of tubing and ran across this website...
http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp
which enables you to search on various chemicals and materials for their compatibility.
It turns out that the myth that I've been hearing and repeating (without
evidence to support it) for years is completely false. In fact polycarbonate
is rated A-excellent for gasoline.
Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew this
but it was news to me and good news at that.
Learning stuff every day.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258304#258304
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Subject: | Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster |
> Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already
knew this but it was news to me and good news at that.
>
> Learning stuff every day.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
Thom R/Gang:
I am not very well educated in gasoline vs polycarbonate, but have ruined
some Lexan with spilled and blown gasoline while refueling.
I have never done an actual test, but have accidentally tested. Some gas
does and some gas doesn't.
Last time I ruined Lexan was refueling from 5 gal cans in North Pole, AK.
Switching from one can to another with my 6' vinyl hose, that was stuck in
the top of the wing in the fuel filler, I accidentally dropped the other end
which swung around and slung gas on the left rear quarter window and left
door. Promptly attacked the Lexan causing large spider web cracks where it
made contact. Quite possibly could have been an additive, like anti icing,
or something of that nature, that did the damage. I know that MEK will ruin
it, as will Super Glue, Loctite blue. That's is all that I can think of at
the moment. Once it is done, it is all over. Time to replace.
BTW: It was 91 octane auto fuel that did the job.
There have been other occassions that I can not remember the details.
john h
mkIII
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter Failure |
That illustrates another problem we face with chinese clones. One
may believe he has bought the same item from a different (maybe even
the same) supplier.
-but those ingenious folks in the East manage to somewhat duplicate
nearly anything made. Among the items I bought replacements for was
the fuel
pressure regulator. Looked the same as the one I had been using for
5 years. I took it apart to compare and it was different (and
inferior) internally.
No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters.
caveat emptor.
BB
On 17, Aug 2009, at 7:38 PM, Gary wrote:
> I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just
> casual interest. Just recently, immediately after take-off in my
> Mark IIIc, I smelled a very strong fuel odor. I elected to make an
> emergency landing. By the time I got down, the fuel odor was
> almost overwhelming. I got out to find gasoline sloshing around
> the bottom of the fuselage cage. However, to my surprise, the
> source of the leak was not immediately apparent. I looked
> throughout the entire fuel system, expecting to find a disconnected
> hose or something. Nothing obvious. So I soaked up the gas, dried
> things out and turned on the electric fuel pump. What I noticed
> was that the end cap was lifting up on the glass fuel filter when
> the fuel was under pressure. The type filter I had installed looks
> very similar, if not identical to the one John Hauck referenced in
> his recent e-mail. (Ref link below).
>
> http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-
> line-filter-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx
>
> As soon as I turned the pump off, the top end cap on the filter
> reseated to where visually nothing appeared amiss - due to
> proximity of the hose clamps holding the filter assembly together.
> (I had the filter installed vertically in the fuel line.) What
> happened is the cast aluminum support that runs through the filter
> (threaded on one end and holding the two filter end caps together)
> broke in half. I=92m curious as to whether anyone else has had this
> type experience with the glass type filter. I had always liked the
> idea of being able to visually examine the filter on each pre-
> flight although I had heard of instances of the glass breaking.
> John=92s fix of replacing the glass cylinder with an aluminum tube
> addresses that problem, but would not address the type failure I
> had. It could certainly be that the support rod was over-
> torqued. I am not sure, as I had not disassembled the filter since
> acquiring the aircraft from the previous owner. (Visually, the
> filter was always clean inside.) Needless to say, I=92ve been
> looking around at numerous filter designs. I therefore appreciate
> everyone=92s input on subject. Mike, I especially appreciate your
> input on the one offered by Aircraft Spruce. The Kolb List is a
> valuable resource of information that has really been great.
> Thanks to all who contribute.
>
> Gary Siegrist
>
> Mark IIIc
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter Failure |
JC Whitney is notorious for cheap imitations.
I bought a handful of their look alike filters for other applications.
They were all junk. As Brother Ted Cowan so eloquently described,
couldn't get them to tighten down straight enough to make the seal.
Cheaper and safer to stuff'em in the trash can than to try and get a
refund.
john h
mkIII
No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters.
caveat emptor.
BB
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter Failure |
Does anyone else use this filter under pressure or are most in the draw
side ahead of the pump?
=C2-G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200A 465hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 8:42 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure
That illustrates another problem we face with chinese clones. =C2-One ma
y believe he has bought the same item from a different (maybe even the sam
e) supplier.
-but those ingenious folks in the East manage to somewhat duplicate nearly
anything made. =C2-Among the items I bought replacements for was the fu
el
pressure regulator. =C2-Looked the same as the one I had been using for
5 years. =C2-I took it apart to compare and it was different (and infer
ior) internally.
No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters. =C2-cav
eat emptor.
BB
On 17, Aug 2009, at 7:38 PM, Gary wrote:
I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just casual
interest.=C2- Just recently, immediately after take-off in my Mark IIIc
, I smelled a very strong fuel odor.=C2- I elected to make an emergency
landing.=C2- By the time I got down, the fuel odor was almost overwhelm
ing.=C2- I got out to find gasoline sloshing around the bottom of the fu
selage cage.=C2- However, to my surprise, the source of the leak was not
immediately apparent.=C2- I looked throughout the entire fuel system,
expecting to find a disconnected hose or
something.=C2- Nothing obvious.=C2- So I soaked up the gas, dried thi
ngs out and turned on the electric fuel pump.=C2- What I noticed was tha
t the end cap was lifting up on the glass fuel filter when the fuel was un
der pressure.=C2- The type filter I had installed looks very similar, if
not identical to the one John Hauck referenced in his recent e-mail.=C2
- (Ref link below).=C2-
=C2-
http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filte
r-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx
As soon as I turned the pump off, the top end cap on the filter reseated
to where visually nothing appeared amiss - due to proximity of the hose
clamps holding the filter assembly together.=C2- (I had the filter inst
alled vertically in the fuel line.)=C2- =C2-What happened is the cast
aluminum support that runs through the filter (threaded on one end and ho
lding the two filter end caps together) broke in half.=C2- I=99m
curious as to whether anyone else has had this type experience with the
glass type filter.=C2- I had always liked the idea of being able to vis
ually examine the filter on each pre-flight although =C2-I had heard of
instances of the glass breaking.=C2- =C2-John=99s fix of replac
ing the glass cylinder with an aluminum tube addresses that problem, but
would not address the type failure I had.=C2- =C2-=C2-It could cert
ainly be that the support rod was over-torqued.=C2- I am not sure, as I
had not disassembled the filter since acquiring the aircraft from the pre
vious owner.=C2- =C2-
(Visually, the filter was always clean inside.)=C2- Needless to say, I
=99ve been looking around at numerous filter designs.=C2- I theref
ore appreciate everyone=99s input on subject.=C2- Mike, I especial
ly appreciate your input on the one offered by Aircraft Spruce.=C2- The
Kolb List is a valuable resource of information that has really been grea
t.=C2- Thanks to all who contribute.
Gary Siegrist
Mark IIIc
=C2-
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Kolb-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution
========================
===========
========================
===========
======3
D========================
=====
========================
===========
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter Failure |
If you are using auto parts stores for a source NAPA tends to have
more honorable stock.
Auto zone and Advance tend to have more junk. (NAPA counter man
humorously called them the "Dead Zone"
BB
On 17, Aug 2009, at 8:52 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> JC Whitney is notorious for cheap imitations.
>
> I bought a handful of their look alike filters for other
> applications. They were all junk. As Brother Ted Cowan so
> eloquently described, couldn't get them to tighten down straight
> enough to make the seal. Cheaper and safer to stuff'em in the
> trash can than to try and get a refund.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters.
> caveat emptor.
> BB
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter Failure |
I'm pulling through mine, just ahead of the engine driven fuel pump.
I would not hesitate to mount it either pressure or vacuum side of pump.
My Facet Electronic Fuel Pump is mounted below the fuel tank. When it
is operating it is pushing fuel to the filter, then the engine driven
pump.
It's a good idea to include fuel pump on, pressurize the system, then
check to make sure there are no leaks. Seals on the filter I use will
leak if the filter is not properly reassembled. Sometimes the filter
element kits come with square shoulder o ring seals and sometime round.
I think the square works with less chance of rolling and causing a leak.
I don't want to sound like it is a difficult job to reassemble the
filter correctly, but I am ham fisted enough to screw it up if I don't
pay enough attention to what I am doing.
john h
mkIII
Does anyone else use this filter under pressure or are most in the
draw side ahead of the pump?
G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200A 465hrs
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Subject: | Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster |
Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> I may be the only one on this list that DIDN'T know the truth of this and have
been laboring under a false myth for a long time. For years I've heard that
gasoline will ruin Lexan (polycarbonate) in short order so we should be careful
when fueling around our polycarbonate canopies, doors and windows.
>
> A couple months ago, I was fueling the RANS before my partner broke it, and spilled
a good bit of 87 AKI unleaded gasoline on the polycarbonate windshield.
I uttered a couple of expletives and as quickly as possible I cleaned up the
mess. Much to my surprise, the fuel had zero affect on the polycarbonate.
>
> I'm looking for a better way to fuel my slingshot now and decided to research
the chemical compatibility of various types of tubing and ran across this website...
>
> http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp
>
> which enables you to search on various chemicals and materials for their compatibility.
It turns out that the myth that I've been hearing and repeating (without
evidence to support it) for years is completely false. In fact polycarbonate
is rated A-excellent for gasoline.
>
> Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew this
but it was news to me and good news at that.
>
> Learning stuff every day.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x34
You might want to get a second opinion....
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster |
Thom
My fuel filler is in the middle of a top side polycarbonate window of my MK
IIIC. I'm on my third window and=C2-second side door from spilling auto a
nd 100LL on it. If you don't spill much and you mop it up quickly it may be
OK but not allways. Trust me I have been there many times it happens farly
quickly. I fill the tanks a bit too fast and they spit back over my window
s. Within say 10-20 seconds after the spill there will be spider cracks=C2
-over a good portion of the window.
Again I might be wrong so get cup or so of fuel and dump it on=C2-YOUR po
lycarbonate and let it set.=C2-Tell us know how it turns out.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:19:42 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kolb-List: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster
I may be the only one on this list that DIDN'T know the truth of this and h
ave been laboring under a false myth for a long time. =C2-For years I've
heard that gasoline will ruin Lexan (polycarbonate) in short order so we sh
ould be careful when fueling around our polycarbonate canopies, doors and w
indows.
A couple months ago, I was fueling the RANS before my partner broke it, and
spilled a good bit of 87 AKI unleaded gasoline on the polycarbonate windsh
ield. I uttered a couple of expletives and as quickly as possible I cleaned
up the mess. Much to my surprise, the fuel had zero affect on the polycarb
onate.
I'm looking for a better way to fuel my slingshot now and decided to resear
ch the chemical compatibility of various types of tubing and ran across thi
s website...
http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp
which enables you to search on various chemicals and materials for their co
mpatibility. It turns out that the myth that I've been hearing and repeatin
g (without evidence to support it) for years is completely false. In fact p
olycarbonate is rated A-excellent for gasoline.
Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew
this but it was news to me and good news at that.
Learning stuff every day.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simp
le system that works.
=C2-=C2-- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258304#258304
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=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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