---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/17/09: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (Tony Oldman) 2. 03:56 AM - clear filters (Ted Cowan) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Thom Riddle) 4. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (Blumax008@aol.com) 5. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (robert bean) 6. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck) 7. 09:57 AM - Re: hours vs experience (JetPilot) 8. 10:04 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (JetPilot) 9. 10:19 AM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (JetPilot) 10. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck) 11. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (John Hauck) 12. 11:10 AM - Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs (Thom Riddle) 13. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (Richard Girard) 14. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (JAMES BEARD) 15. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (Beauford T) 16. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: 447 problem (JAMES BEARD) 17. 03:45 PM - Re: hours vs experience (JetPilot) 18. 03:55 PM - Re: Spinning (JetPilot) 19. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: hours vs experience (John Hauck) 20. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: Spinning (russ kinne) 21. 04:38 PM - Fuel Filter Failure (Gary) 22. 04:55 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (John Hauck) 23. 05:20 PM - polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (Thom Riddle) 24. 05:40 PM - Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (John Hauck) 25. 05:43 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (robert bean) 26. 05:52 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (John Hauck) 27. 05:53 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (zeprep251@aol.com) 28. 06:08 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (robert bean) 29. 06:11 PM - Re: Fuel Filter Failure (John Hauck) 30. 06:37 PM - Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (Charlie England) 31. 07:26 PM - Re: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster (neilsenrm@comcast.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:39 AM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, My MK111c is not difficult in pitch, to get it to porpus you would need to put in a lot of control movement before it gave you any problem. It will peal off to the left if trimmed to fly hands off and you let the stick go. It is not a sudden or violent move to the left. If you fly solo from the right seat it will head that way hands off, two up it will stay straight . If you trim the aircraft for hands off flight and trickle off the power it will drop the nose in a stall, then when it picks a bit of speed up it will lift the nose again until it runs out of air speed and the process is repeated. It will do this with no pilot input,you will of course loose some altitude ,nothing happens fast ,nothing unprodictable happens. Not to be tried close to the ground. I am not a builder, but do agree with those that suggest you need to check the CG and rigging. These are not difficult machines to fly with the correct training, in my experiance they do nothing suddenly or violently .99% of my flying has been in ultralight aircraft so may be my expectations are different from those with a GA back ground. Regards Downunder MK111c 400hrs 503 ----- Original Message ----- From: neilsenrm@comcast.net To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:41 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, Herb Please check that your elevator, horizontal stabilizer, controls all, are built per the plans. Also verify that you are within CG ranges. "Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme" This is not normal, something is not right. Pitch is light but easily controlled. Kolb MKIIICs fly a bit nose low causing a high pressure area where it sounds like you have you static source. You would be better off disconnecting the static line from the airspeed indicator till you get a better static source. I will try again. It would appear that your wings are poorly rigged. Get the adjustable wing attachments from New Kolb and you should be able to fix the "strong left roll" A Kolb MKIIC built to the plans is a nice flying airplane. It is not by definition stable. It will divert from level flight in pitch and roll but is very easy to control. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: HGRAFF@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:52:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kolb-List: First Flight follow-up, I Promised a follow-up on getting our Mark III classical into the air for the first time. Well, here is how it went on the second day, a week later. First, we checked the Pitot/static and found badly leaking conditions in both, under the cabin connection to Pitot/static itself. (a 50MPH setting would leak off in 2 seconds) The spring clamps weren't good enough, so we added a safety wire temporary cure. Upon the subsequent flight Stalls changed from 45 to 42, which is very close to the reported stall of a Mark III Classic for sale like ours, at 41 mph. Cruise increased from 45 to 50 but is still limited by engine RPM which I couldn't let go past redline. Ground adjusting the prop is a next task. The Pitot/Static is still located on top of the nose, about 4 inches high. We also raised the right flap by two threads at the rod end, but to no avail at all of mitigating the strong left roll force, which is most annoying. Our engine turns clockwise. Trim tab(s) will be needed. The question remains whether rudder or aileron or both. Pitch control sensitivity is still extreme. Yes, you can get used to it, but is definitely a-typical. I wonder if some other Kolb owners have done things about it, such like adding reflex (Fletcher) trim tabs, as are employed on the Grumman Yankee. It puts some feedback into the elevator, so it won't feel like a helicopter cyclic control. I flew for almost an hour, and there wasn't anything extraordinarily different from the first flight, except my pitch control had acclimated. Did I feel real comfortable, like I usually do in an aircraft? No, not yet! BTW, an alternate pilot, intending to high speed taxi down the runway, got surprised with a takeoff, almost scraped the left wing on the ground then bobbed up & down the length of the fortunately very long runway. (He did not want to make another try at it!). Things to do at this point are: 1 try and test trim tabs. 2. Ground adjust Prop for more pitch. Maybe I can get better climb/cruise performance. I am limited on both with staying under redline RPM. 3. Use of a hand-held (?!) GPS to check on speeds. Herb, Mark IIIc, 246KT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:06 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: clear filters My experience has shown there is or was three types of clear glass filters to which you were speaking. One type has a flat cast or alum stem in the inside which screws up into the cap. The flat threads in there will quickly disintegrate and will come apart with vibration. The second is more scare with more meat and I dont know how well that hangs in. The third and best has a round threaded hollow rod, chrome plated I think and has holes to wire tie the filter twister nut to keep it in place. That is the best. Had a couple of the flat ones come apart if you tighten them much. I always wire tie the filter inside just in case. Ted Cowan ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "Thom Riddle" Rick, Thanks for the lead to the book and list. I'll check it out. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258153#258153 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:08 AM PST US From: Blumax008@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience I wasn't going to get into this possibly volitile conversation about fuel filters but I had to add my two cents worth...for what that's worth & something tells me it ain't going to be worth much. Been flying these contraptions since summer of '78 or '79...hell, I forgot but it's been a long damn time. Everything from a Sachs, to a Yamaha 15hp (what a piece of crap that was), to a Cuyuna (another piece of crap), to the wonderful world of Rotax. I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any trouble with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk about? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:56 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience This talk is really about ethanol. I never had any fuel filter problems either... until now. More problems will crop up. BB On 17, Aug 2009, at 9:27 AM, Blumax008@aol.com wrote: > I wasn't going to get into this possibly volitile conversation > about fuel filters but I had to add my two cents worth...for what > that's worth & something tells me it ain't going to be worth much. > > Been flying these contraptions since summer of '78 or '79...hell, I > forgot but it's been a long damn time. Everything from a Sachs, to > a Yamaha 15hp (what a piece of crap that was), to a Cuyuna (another > piece of crap), to the wonderful world of Rotax. > > I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any > trouble with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk about? > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:06 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience Bill C? I reckon some of us have not been as fortunate as you have after all these years. I quit using paper element fuel filters when I started building and flying Kolbs in 1984. Didn't take too long to find out a couple drops of moisture caused the element to expand and shut off the fuel. Most of the time not enough to kill the Cuyuna completely, but enough to prevent maintaining altitude. I remember flying back to my cow pasture in Titus, Alabama, from a cow pasture between Woodville, Florida, and Natural Bridge. Can't remember that gentleman's name that used to let me land there when I was visiting Brother Jim in Woodville. Anyhow, was following I-10, in my Ultrastar, between Quincy and Marianna, FL. Beautiful day, wind in my face, watching the cars and 18 wheelers passing me, not far below, when the little Cuyuna started losing power. I headed for the nearest tree studded pasture full of horses. Got on the ground, wiggled wires, scratched my head, got the Cuyuna restarted, took off, and headed up the interstate for Alabama. Next day, at Gantt International Airport, I was still scratching my head. I had made 5 takeoffs, followed immediately by 5 forced landings. Took me that long to get around to changing out the little paper filament fuel filter. Problem solved until the next time it got a little moisture in it. Discovered the fuel filter I am using today. No more moisture and fuel filter problems. I still use paper elements in diesel and gas powered tractors, trucks and lawn mowers. Guess they have updated their paper elements to be moisture tolerable. Still don't want to use one in my mkIII. What kind of fuel filter is Bill C using? Maybe I ought to get one of those. john h mkIII I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any trouble with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk about? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: "JetPilot" John Hauck wrote: > > > I quit using paper element fuel filters when I started building and flying Kolbs in 1984. Didn't take too long to find out a couple drops of moisture caused the element to expand and shut off the fuel. > > So you have also had an engine failure due to a cheap fuel filters, this is a very common story as a previously pointed out. One of your Rotax 912 failures may have also very well been avoided by using the better Aircraft Sprue fuel filter, given the much larger filter area, and the dual filter screens, those fibers that completely clogged your filter may have not completely clogged the Aircraft Spruce filter. As I stated before, a lot of filter area is important, especially in an airplane. John, you seem to have found a filter that is better than the plastic ones, but not as good as it should be. Here is the problem, the design of the filter you have has changed over the years, that model has been made in China and is now total garbage, I have heard of the threads stripping, leaks, and other problems. Those buying your filter now may be in for a big surprise. Those buying the little plastic filters from the auto store are even at greater risk. For those that want to be Guinea Pigs, keep using those plastic and other inexpensive filters as the Chinese find ways to make them even cheaper every year. As far as the cost, we all make our choices, I am not some super rich guy that can just go out and throw money around either. I make my choices, and the 80 dollar filter is a priority for me, I did without other things I would have liked in order to buy these filters. As I said before, the 80 dollars is cheaper than any forced landing that results in aircraft damage, and its the bargain of the century when compared to hurting yourself and going to the hospital. We have seen a lot of aircraft damage and even a couple guys seriously hurt due to poor fuel system design over the years here. There is a good reason as to why the EAA says that about 50 % of engine failures in experimental airplanes are caused by fuel system problems. I have flown with cheap fuel filters and been lucky, but I continually research and learn especially when I read about dangers and problems such as this one. I am honest enough to know when I have made a mistake even if I have been lucky and not paid any consequences. I am also smart enough to learn from and correct mistakes I have made. There are many out there that will take good advice, and there are always a few here on the list like Bill that like to talk big on the list, and cant stand to be told something by a younger guy that has done his research and knows what he is talking about. That is fine, they are free to make their own choices, and will have no one but themselves to blame when the odds catch up to them. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258211#258211 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "JetPilot" aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote: > > Thom, Getting a copy of Bob Nuckolls' book, "The Aeroelectric Connection" and joining his forum here on the Matronics Lists is money and time well spent. > Thom knowing the load capability of his system would not have made any difference here, as one does not know how much an almost dead battery is going to draw. This incident was not about numbers, it was about the poor judgment of using a landing light during the day while trying to charge a dead battery... No amount of numbers and aero electric books will save someone from this type of bad choice. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258213#258213 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, From: "JetPilot" The anti trim tabs to fix your pitch instability are one of the worst ideas I have heard in a long time. A number of people, including myself have told you that a properly rigged and balanced Kolb is very easy to control in pitch. This point seems to have been totally ignored by you. I also gave you very good advice on rigging your wings correctly to correct the rolling tendency, and again you have ignored good advice and are talking about more trim tabs to hide the problem instead of correcting it. I could give you some good information on Prop pitch, but I think I would be wasting my time given that you have ignored the other advice I took the time to give you. If you want the advice, let me know and I will take the time to post it, but I wont waste my time giving advice to someone that ignores it. Given your attitude towards solving your problems, and ignoring the good advice you have gotten here, I think there is a high possibility of you crashing and destroying your airplane, and I just hope you don't take any passengers with you when you do it. I also hope you have anyone that thinks about flying your Kolb read these two threads first, they should know what they are getting into. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258218#258218 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:47 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience > So you have also had an engine failure due to a cheap fuel filters > > Mike Mike B: I would think you would have gotten the hint from my post that I am pretty happy with a fuel filter I have been flying with since 1984, and well over 4,000 hours. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:04 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, > The anti trim tabs to fix your pitch instability are one of the worst > ideas I have heard in a long time. A number of people, including myself > have told you that a properly rigged and balanced Kolb is very easy to > control in pitch. This point seems to have been totally ignored by you. > > I also gave you very good advice on rigging your wings correctly to > correct the rolling tendency, and again you have ignored good advice and > are talking about more trim tabs to hide the problem instead of correcting > it. > > I could give you some good information on Prop pitch, but I think I would > be wasting my time given that you have ignored the other advice I took the > time to give you. If you want the advice, let me know and I will take the > time to post it, but I wont waste my time giving advice to someone that > ignores it. > > Given your attitude towards solving your problems, and ignoring the good > advice you have gotten here, I think there is a high possibility of you > crashing and destroying your airplane, and I just hope you don't take any > passengers with you when you do it. I also hope you have anyone that > thinks about flying your Kolb read these two threads first, they should > know what they are getting into. > > Mike Mike B: I never give advice on this List. I am not qualified to give another pilot/builder advice over the internet when I am not absolutely familiar with what his problem is, what he is trying to do, or if he is really getting the description of the problem, etc., to me accurately and I am understanding him accurately. I just don't do it. I don't want the responsibility I led someone the wrong direction and they got hurt because of advice. The only thing I feel good about doing is sharing my experience, good and bad, then letting folks decide for themselves if they want to do it my way, or try something else. I leave that up to them. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:45 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Jabiru powered Kolbs From: "Thom Riddle" Mr. Jet Pilot, Please note that my original post was directed to those who operate Jabiru Powered Kolbs. I hope that those few of us who do operate Jabiru Powered Kolbs can avoid this situation in the future. THAT was the purpose of the post. To quote you.... This incident was not about numbers, it was about the poor judgment of using a landing light during the day while trying to charge a dead battery... Following is an excerpt of what I said in my initial post on this subject: ...you may have already learned what I learned recently. If not then listen up for it is worth knowing.... NOTE that this was directed to Jabiru operators who may not yet have had a dead battery. Then I told about what I learned from my experience. You can call that POOR JUDGMENT if you want. I call it learning by doing. NOW I have the knowledge acquired on THIS SYSTEM to know not to do that again on this system. If I do it again, it could be fairly called Poor Judgment or Stupidity or Bad Memory. Note that, as I said before, I've never had this happen on any other machine I've ever operated, either earthbound or airborne. Based on those many decades of past experience, what happened surprised me. I've experienced many dead battery situations in which a heavy electrical load was applied while the alternator or generator was supplying virtually all the power due to nearly dead battery and NEVER has this occurred in my experience, up until now. In my opinion your post showed POOR TASTE, was JUDGMENTAL (there's that word again) and without foundation. "That is all I have to say about that." - Forest Gump -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258230#258230 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: Richard Girard Possum, Just for the record, yes, 58 is old and it will be until October 4th, then 59 will be. Rick Girard, born October 4th, 1951 do not archive On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:28 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > So you have also had an engine failure due to a cheap fuel filters > >> >> Mike >> > > > Mike B: > > I would think you would have gotten the hint from my post that I am pretty > happy with a fuel filter I have been flying with since 1984, and well over > 4,000 hours. > > john h > mkIII > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:07 PM PST US From: "JAMES BEARD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience Dale.. nice post. Being a newbie myself, lurking for years, I have not had the experience of being ridiculed, but instead ignored... wonder which hurts more. I've sent e-mails and questions to several of the gurus, without response.. I guess they don't read their mail. Jim "invisable" Beard MK lll X under construction, Arizona. (BTW, got my private SEL in '76) ----- Original Message ----- From: dalewhelan To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:49 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience > Hi guys, I am relatively new this forum. I started flying sailplanes in 1974 went to general aviation in 1978, Flew hanggliders in 1982,got my Kolb in 2008. Sounds like I have been flying for 35 years and you should acknowledge me as a sky god. Here is the rest of the story As of 1/29/1981 I had logged 7 hours the past year I have logged about 100 hours. I have met people that spent years and hours flying around the field. I think they still lack experience. I have been ridiculed by people on this site when I was looking for answers. I have talked to somebody in the industry about this site. The opinion seems to be that there is good info to be found here. The bad thing is the way new people are often treated on this site. The treatment is such that newcomers could be driven away from an informative site and possibly a great occupation. I have received email from forum members talking about the elitist mentality they have run into. To me it seemed like financial suicide for an industry insider to post on this site. The bickering could be directed at their business and customers lost. Sometimes I read the posts and it seems that people are abusive to others that don't bow to them, often through the use of sarcasm. It seems some folks want you to bow to them as the sky god even if they are wrong.While I enjoy the varied view and opinions, I am not fond of publically calling someone who has a different opinion an idiot. Johns comment about hours vs years seems accurate. If you look for more meaning than what he said you will find it, just realize those are your words that were added. I actively road raced motorcycles for 25 years. Won numerous races, have close to a dozen championships, have thousands of miles on road courses. I had done more after 3 years than people with 20 years of riding and lots more miles due to the environment I rode in. Two years ago a 14 year old girl beat me in a road race. I was riding an 80 horsepower 250, she was on a 45 horsepower 125. People with airplanes are more fun to talk to than people with computers. -------- Dale Whelan 503 powered Firestar II Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257809#257809 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:27 PM PST US From: "Beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, Brother Mike... Just an advisory... perhaps you would be well advised to take Brother Hauck's subtle advice against giving advice...under advisement... ...feel free to consider this to be friendly advice... (just couldn't stand it...) Unsolicited beauford My advice is worth what you pay fer it... FF-076 survivor Brandon, FL Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:43 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, > The anti trim tabs to fix your pitch instability are one of the > worst > ideas I have heard in a long time. A number of people, including > myself > have told you that a properly rigged and balanced Kolb is very easy > to > control in pitch. This point seems to have been totally ignored by > you. > > I also gave you very good advice on rigging your wings correctly to > correct the rolling tendency, and again you have ignored good advice > and > are talking about more trim tabs to hide the problem instead of > correcting > it. > > I could give you some good information on Prop pitch, but I think I > would > be wasting my time given that you have ignored the other advice I > took the > time to give you. If you want the advice, let me know and I will > take the > time to post it, but I wont waste my time giving advice to someone > that > ignores it. > > Given your attitude towards solving your problems, and ignoring the > good > advice you have gotten here, I think there is a high possibility of > you > crashing and destroying your airplane, and I just hope you don't > take any > passengers with you when you do it. I also hope you have anyone > that > thinks about flying your Kolb read these two threads first, they > should > know what they are getting into. > > Mike Mike B: I never give advice on this List. I am not qualified to give another pilot/builder advice over the internet when I am not absolutely familiar with what his problem is, what he is trying to do, or if he is really getting the description of the problem, etc., to me accurately and I am understanding him accurately. I just don't do it. I don't want the responsibility I led someone the wrong direction and they got hurt because of advice. The only thing I feel good about doing is sharing my experience, good and bad, then letting folks decide for themselves if they want to do it my way, or try something else. I leave that up to them. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:50 PM PST US From: "JAMES BEARD" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 problem Billet: a short bar of iron or steel--- Webster. Had to look it up myself! ----- Original Message ----- From: Blumax008@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 problem In a message dated 8/14/2009 11:26:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, by0ung@brigham.net writes: The other thing I would do is buy a really good fuel filter like this 10 micron stainless steel filter from Aircraft Spruce. This award winning high performance billet, stainless steel, washable and reusable Filter is USA made, high performance billet, stainless steel, washable and reusable superb flow filters. For those who want and appreciate quality, these high performance billet, stainless steel, washable and reusable filter will take you to the highest level of filtration performance. Let me get this straight once & for all...ARE THEY ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT IT'S A... "high performance billet, stainless steel, washable & reusuable?" ...by the way, what the hell is a billet?... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:35 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience From: "JetPilot" James, People are usually pretty good about helping new guys here. If you post a question chances are probably pretty good you will get some good answers. Of course, some questions, etc. fall through the cracks, but its not intentional. Welcome to the list, and I hope you come back often. Lots of good information here, and its easier to learn from all of our mistakes rather than make your own :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258278#258278 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:48 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning From: "JetPilot" [quote="russ(at)rkiphoto.com"] > Mike > You say "A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any > Russ, What I meant to type was " A spin into the ground is usually fatal ". I got interrupted while typing that and left out a critical part. I have done hundreds of spins also, am I am still here :) I haven't had the balls to spin my MK III though, I fly it pretty gently and I think I will pass on spinning it... Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258283#258283 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:32 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: hours vs experience Hi Jim B/Gang: Do you have a copy of the "Guru List"? I haven't seen it and was curious who is on it. Jim, if you weren't invisible, maybe those Guru's could see you. PVT SEL 1976. Jim B has me beat by 14 years. I didn't get my PVT ticket until 1990. I was a late bloomer. Didn't need it until I built the MKIII. Started flying at 29 in the Army. That was middle age or better for that environment. Where are you located in AZ? I am heading West for my annual surface trek in two weeks. Plan to be on the road from two to three months, or until I get tired and ready to head to the house. Last year I split the State from north to south. Might be in your area. I cruised by Dale W's place, missing him by a couple miles, last year, but didn't know it. Plan on seeing as many of my friends as I can on the trip, from Oregon, south and east. Don't worry, I bring my own bed, bath, kitchen, TV, and dirt toys. Might need to borrow some tools though. ;-) john h mkIII I've sent e-mails and questions to several of the gurus, without response.. I guess they don't read their mail. Jim "invisable" Beard MK lll X under construction, Arizona. (BTW, got my private SEL in '76) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:15 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Spinning I can only comment on what I read -- i.e, what you say. On Aug 17, 2009, at 6:55 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > [quote="russ(at)rkiphoto.com"] >> Mike >> You say "A spin is usually fatal, be it in a biplane, cub, or any >> > > > Russ, > > What I meant to type was " A spin into the ground is usually fatal > ". I got interrupted while typing that and left out a critical part. > > I have done hundreds of spins also, am I am still here :) I > haven't had the balls to spin my MK III though, I fly it pretty > gently and I think I will pass on spinning it... > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258283#258283 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:41 PM PST US From: "Gary" Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just casual interest. Just recently, immediately after take-off in my Mark IIIc, I smelled a very strong fuel odor. I elected to make an emergency landing. By the time I got down, the fuel odor was almost overwhelming. I got out to find gasoline sloshing around the bottom of the fuselage cage. However, to my surprise, the source of the leak was not immediately apparent. I looked throughout the entire fuel system, expecting to find a disconnected hose or something. Nothing obvious. So I soaked up the gas, dried things out and turned on the electric fuel pump. What I noticed was that the end cap was lifting up on the glass fuel filter when the fuel was under pressure. The type filter I had installed looks very similar, if not identical to the one John Hauck referenced in his recent e-mail. (Ref link below). http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filter- for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx As soon as I turned the pump off, the top end cap on the filter reseated to where visually nothing appeared amiss - due to proximity of the hose clamps holding the filter assembly together. (I had the filter installed vertically in the fuel line.) What happened is the cast aluminum support that runs through the filter (threaded on one end and holding the two filter end caps together) broke in half. I'm curious as to whether anyone else has had this type experience with the glass type filter. I had always liked the idea of being able to visually examine the filter on each pre-flight although I had heard of instances of the glass breaking. John's fix of replacing the glass cylinder with an aluminum tube addresses that problem, but would not address the type failure I had. It could certainly be that the support rod was over-torqued. I am not sure, as I had not disassembled the filter since acquiring the aircraft from the previous owner. (Visually, the filter was always clean inside.) Needless to say, I've been looking around at numerous filter designs. I therefore appreciate everyone's input on subject. Mike, I especially appreciate your input on the one offered by Aircraft Spruce. The Kolb List is a valuable resource of information that has really been great. Thanks to all who contribute. Gary Siegrist Mark IIIc ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:05 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure Gary S/Gang: One of the benefits of building your own airplane is you know how it is built and what goes into it. I can assure you I have a good filter or I would never have attempted to fly to places my little mkIII has carried me. Heck, I wouldn't leave the ground if I had any doubt. I doubt I will ever buy an airplane that someone else builds, but if I did I think I would take a close look at a lot of things that might be marginal, especially things that are not easily inspected. Buying a used airplane can't be much different that buying a used car, truck, or especially an antique tractor. You would not believe the stuff folks hide in antique tractors from the unwary buyer. Might be a good idea to include fuel pump on and inspect the fuel system as part of your preflight inspection. BTW: My fuel filter requires just a little bit of torque to make it snug enough not to leak and not chance breaking it with a heavy hand. john h mkIII and unwary antique tractor buyer I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just casual interest. Gary Siegrist Mark IIIc ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster From: "Thom Riddle" I may be the only one on this list that DIDN'T know the truth of this and have been laboring under a false myth for a long time. For years I've heard that gasoline will ruin Lexan (polycarbonate) in short order so we should be careful when fueling around our polycarbonate canopies, doors and windows. A couple months ago, I was fueling the RANS before my partner broke it, and spilled a good bit of 87 AKI unleaded gasoline on the polycarbonate windshield. I uttered a couple of expletives and as quickly as possible I cleaned up the mess. Much to my surprise, the fuel had zero affect on the polycarbonate. I'm looking for a better way to fuel my slingshot now and decided to research the chemical compatibility of various types of tubing and ran across this website... http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp which enables you to search on various chemicals and materials for their compatibility. It turns out that the myth that I've been hearing and repeating (without evidence to support it) for years is completely false. In fact polycarbonate is rated A-excellent for gasoline. Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew this but it was news to me and good news at that. Learning stuff every day. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258304#258304 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:01 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster > Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew this but it was news to me and good news at that. > > Learning stuff every day. > > -------- > Thom Riddle Thom R/Gang: I am not very well educated in gasoline vs polycarbonate, but have ruined some Lexan with spilled and blown gasoline while refueling. I have never done an actual test, but have accidentally tested. Some gas does and some gas doesn't. Last time I ruined Lexan was refueling from 5 gal cans in North Pole, AK. Switching from one can to another with my 6' vinyl hose, that was stuck in the top of the wing in the fuel filler, I accidentally dropped the other end which swung around and slung gas on the left rear quarter window and left door. Promptly attacked the Lexan causing large spider web cracks where it made contact. Quite possibly could have been an additive, like anti icing, or something of that nature, that did the damage. I know that MEK will ruin it, as will Super Glue, Loctite blue. That's is all that I can think of at the moment. Once it is done, it is all over. Time to replace. BTW: It was 91 octane auto fuel that did the job. There have been other occassions that I can not remember the details. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:04 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure That illustrates another problem we face with chinese clones. One may believe he has bought the same item from a different (maybe even the same) supplier. -but those ingenious folks in the East manage to somewhat duplicate nearly anything made. Among the items I bought replacements for was the fuel pressure regulator. Looked the same as the one I had been using for 5 years. I took it apart to compare and it was different (and inferior) internally. No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters. caveat emptor. BB On 17, Aug 2009, at 7:38 PM, Gary wrote: > I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just > casual interest. Just recently, immediately after take-off in my > Mark IIIc, I smelled a very strong fuel odor. I elected to make an > emergency landing. By the time I got down, the fuel odor was > almost overwhelming. I got out to find gasoline sloshing around > the bottom of the fuselage cage. However, to my surprise, the > source of the leak was not immediately apparent. I looked > throughout the entire fuel system, expecting to find a disconnected > hose or something. Nothing obvious. So I soaked up the gas, dried > things out and turned on the electric fuel pump. What I noticed > was that the end cap was lifting up on the glass fuel filter when > the fuel was under pressure. The type filter I had installed looks > very similar, if not identical to the one John Hauck referenced in > his recent e-mail. (Ref link below). > > http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel- > line-filter-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx > > As soon as I turned the pump off, the top end cap on the filter > reseated to where visually nothing appeared amiss - due to > proximity of the hose clamps holding the filter assembly together. > (I had the filter installed vertically in the fuel line.) What > happened is the cast aluminum support that runs through the filter > (threaded on one end and holding the two filter end caps together) > broke in half. I=92m curious as to whether anyone else has had this > type experience with the glass type filter. I had always liked the > idea of being able to visually examine the filter on each pre- > flight although I had heard of instances of the glass breaking. > John=92s fix of replacing the glass cylinder with an aluminum tube > addresses that problem, but would not address the type failure I > had. It could certainly be that the support rod was over- > torqued. I am not sure, as I had not disassembled the filter since > acquiring the aircraft from the previous owner. (Visually, the > filter was always clean inside.) Needless to say, I=92ve been > looking around at numerous filter designs. I therefore appreciate > everyone=92s input on subject. Mike, I especially appreciate your > input on the one offered by Aircraft Spruce. The Kolb List is a > valuable resource of information that has really been great. > Thanks to all who contribute. > > Gary Siegrist > > Mark IIIc > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:48 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure JC Whitney is notorious for cheap imitations. I bought a handful of their look alike filters for other applications. They were all junk. As Brother Ted Cowan so eloquently described, couldn't get them to tighten down straight enough to make the seal. Cheaper and safer to stuff'em in the trash can than to try and get a refund. john h mkIII No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters. caveat emptor. BB ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure From: zeprep251@aol.com Does anyone else use this filter under pressure or are most in the draw side ahead of the pump? =C2-G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200A 465hrs -----Original Message----- From: robert bean Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 8:42 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure That illustrates another problem we face with chinese clones. =C2-One ma y believe he has bought the same item from a different (maybe even the sam e) supplier. -but those ingenious folks in the East manage to somewhat duplicate nearly anything made. =C2-Among the items I bought replacements for was the fu el pressure regulator. =C2-Looked the same as the one I had been using for 5 years. =C2-I took it apart to compare and it was different (and infer ior) internally. No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters. =C2-cav eat emptor. BB On 17, Aug 2009, at 7:38 PM, Gary wrote: I have been reading the posts on fuel filters were more than just casual interest.=C2- Just recently, immediately after take-off in my Mark IIIc , I smelled a very strong fuel odor.=C2- I elected to make an emergency landing.=C2- By the time I got down, the fuel odor was almost overwhelm ing.=C2- I got out to find gasoline sloshing around the bottom of the fu selage cage.=C2- However, to my surprise, the source of the leak was not immediately apparent.=C2- I looked throughout the entire fuel system, expecting to find a disconnected hose or something.=C2- Nothing obvious.=C2- So I soaked up the gas, dried thi ngs out and turned on the electric fuel pump.=C2- What I noticed was tha t the end cap was lifting up on the glass fuel filter when the fuel was un der pressure.=C2- The type filter I had installed looks very similar, if not identical to the one John Hauck referenced in his recent e-mail.=C2 - (Ref link below).=C2- =C2- http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filte r-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx As soon as I turned the pump off, the top end cap on the filter reseated to where visually nothing appeared amiss - due to proximity of the hose clamps holding the filter assembly together.=C2- (I had the filter inst alled vertically in the fuel line.)=C2- =C2-What happened is the cast aluminum support that runs through the filter (threaded on one end and ho lding the two filter end caps together) broke in half.=C2- I=99m curious as to whether anyone else has had this type experience with the glass type filter.=C2- I had always liked the idea of being able to vis ually examine the filter on each pre-flight although =C2-I had heard of instances of the glass breaking.=C2- =C2-John=99s fix of replac ing the glass cylinder with an aluminum tube addresses that problem, but would not address the type failure I had.=C2- =C2-=C2-It could cert ainly be that the support rod was over-torqued.=C2- I am not sure, as I had not disassembled the filter since acquiring the aircraft from the pre vious owner.=C2- =C2- (Visually, the filter was always clean inside.)=C2- Needless to say, I =99ve been looking around at numerous filter designs.=C2- I theref ore appreciate everyone=99s input on subject.=C2- Mike, I especial ly appreciate your input on the one offered by Aircraft Spruce.=C2- The Kolb List is a valuable resource of information that has really been grea t.=C2- Thanks to all who contribute. Gary Siegrist Mark IIIc =C2- style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Kolb-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.c om/contribution ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======3 D======================== ===== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:41 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure If you are using auto parts stores for a source NAPA tends to have more honorable stock. Auto zone and Advance tend to have more junk. (NAPA counter man humorously called them the "Dead Zone" BB On 17, Aug 2009, at 8:52 PM, John Hauck wrote: > JC Whitney is notorious for cheap imitations. > > I bought a handful of their look alike filters for other > applications. They were all junk. As Brother Ted Cowan so > eloquently described, couldn't get them to tighten down straight > enough to make the seal. Cheaper and safer to stuff'em in the > trash can than to try and get a refund. > > john h > mkIII > No doubt there is more than one maker of those cylinder filters. > caveat emptor. > BB > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:48 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Filter Failure I'm pulling through mine, just ahead of the engine driven fuel pump. I would not hesitate to mount it either pressure or vacuum side of pump. My Facet Electronic Fuel Pump is mounted below the fuel tank. When it is operating it is pushing fuel to the filter, then the engine driven pump. It's a good idea to include fuel pump on, pressurize the system, then check to make sure there are no leaks. Seals on the filter I use will leak if the filter is not properly reassembled. Sometimes the filter element kits come with square shoulder o ring seals and sometime round. I think the square works with less chance of rolling and causing a leak. I don't want to sound like it is a difficult job to reassemble the filter correctly, but I am ham fisted enough to screw it up if I don't pay enough attention to what I am doing. john h mkIII Does anyone else use this filter under pressure or are most in the draw side ahead of the pump? G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200A 465hrs ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:18 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster Thom Riddle wrote: > > I may be the only one on this list that DIDN'T know the truth of this and have been laboring under a false myth for a long time. For years I've heard that gasoline will ruin Lexan (polycarbonate) in short order so we should be careful when fueling around our polycarbonate canopies, doors and windows. > > A couple months ago, I was fueling the RANS before my partner broke it, and spilled a good bit of 87 AKI unleaded gasoline on the polycarbonate windshield. I uttered a couple of expletives and as quickly as possible I cleaned up the mess. Much to my surprise, the fuel had zero affect on the polycarbonate. > > I'm looking for a better way to fuel my slingshot now and decided to research the chemical compatibility of various types of tubing and ran across this website... > > http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp > > which enables you to search on various chemicals and materials for their compatibility. It turns out that the myth that I've been hearing and repeating (without evidence to support it) for years is completely false. In fact polycarbonate is rated A-excellent for gasoline. > > Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew this but it was news to me and good news at that. > > Learning stuff every day. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > Jabiru 2200A #1574 > Tennessee Prop 64x34 You might want to get a second opinion.... ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:11 PM PST US From: neilsenrm@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster Thom My fuel filler is in the middle of a top side polycarbonate window of my MK IIIC. I'm on my third window and=C2-second side door from spilling auto a nd 100LL on it. If you don't spill much and you mop it up quickly it may be OK but not allways. Trust me I have been there many times it happens farly quickly. I fill the tanks a bit too fast and they spit back over my window s. Within say 10-20 seconds after the spill there will be spider cracks=C2 -over a good portion of the window. Again I might be wrong so get cup or so of fuel and dump it on=C2-YOUR po lycarbonate and let it set.=C2-Tell us know how it turns out. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:19:42 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kolb-List: polycarbonate/gasoline myth buster I may be the only one on this list that DIDN'T know the truth of this and h ave been laboring under a false myth for a long time. =C2-For years I've heard that gasoline will ruin Lexan (polycarbonate) in short order so we sh ould be careful when fueling around our polycarbonate canopies, doors and w indows. A couple months ago, I was fueling the RANS before my partner broke it, and spilled a good bit of 87 AKI unleaded gasoline on the polycarbonate windsh ield. I uttered a couple of expletives and as quickly as possible I cleaned up the mess. Much to my surprise, the fuel had zero affect on the polycarb onate. I'm looking for a better way to fuel my slingshot now and decided to resear ch the chemical compatibility of various types of tubing and ran across thi s website... http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp which enables you to search on various chemicals and materials for their co mpatibility. It turns out that the myth that I've been hearing and repeatin g (without evidence to support it) for years is completely false. In fact p olycarbonate is rated A-excellent for gasoline. Perhaps some of you with more and different experience than me already knew this but it was news to me and good news at that. Learning stuff every day. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simp le system that works. =C2-=C2-- John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258304#258304 =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.