---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/20/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:33 AM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (Tony Oldman) 2. 12:58 AM - Re: Confident With My Equipment (Tony Oldman) 3. 03:06 AM - Re: Re: First Flight follow-up, (neilsenrm@comcast.net) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area o (Thom Riddle) 5. 06:39 AM - Re: Cockpit controlled trim for Firestar-2 - Request Inputs (Richard Pike) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: trying to takeoff (possums) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area of Owyhee (TheWanderingWench) 8. 04:38 PM - Re: First Flight follow-up, (JetPilot) 9. 07:25 PM - Re: Confident With My Equipment (JetPilot) 10. 07:43 PM - Re: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area of Owyhee (Larry Cottrell) 11. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Confident With My Equipment (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:41 AM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, Good to see you making progress. I use half flap to take off and let the flaps off at about 300ft AGL. I land with full flap,mainly because I feel I have much better control if landing in gusty or cross wind conditions. Also as most of my flying has been in these very light aircraft I prefer steep arrivals . Its easier to dump height with no engine than it is to try and gain height with no engine. Letting the flaps go, had to think about that one. Mostly take my hand off the throttle and reach up with my left hand.I am left handed and this just feels right.I also like to let off the trim before using the flap, I think this gives me a better feel for pitch control in the flare. This is the way that I do it, others will do it different , I think with your experience you may need to experiment a bit and do it the way you are comfortable with. Sink rate and inertia { or lack of } are two big differences that you will need to get comfortable with. >From my exeriance ,any bad things these Kolbs do are pilot induced .I do have to be mindful that when I fly other microlight aircraft {ultralights } they may not be so forgiving. The only time I have not been comfortable flying the Kolb is when cought in winds gusting up to 40 mph, I found turning into wind to land a most mind focusing experiance . have fun , stay safe up there . Downunder MK111c 503 From: HGRAFF@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:09 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, Wow, I've been away from the computer for a couple of days and find a regular storm of many outraged responses. Also, as well, intended helpful ones. My, I've been told I have an attitude problem, with the implications I don't appreciate good advice, fly an out of rig, out of CG, not built to plans, porpoising monster into an imminent crash. Guys cool it. The porpoising only lasted 3 - 4 seconds into the first flight, when I over-controlled, surprised by the sensitivity of the pitch. My friend, another GA type had the same problem. Maybe it was my problem for calling this sensitivity "extreme", because I find it at the extreme end of anything I've flown before, excepting maybe the helicopter I owned. Gosh, I only asked the "insane" question if anybody had done anything to reduce this pitch sensitivity. To put some of the feathers down, let me state the CG is normal, Mr. FAA went through the various load calculations to check. This is a straight built classic, without any mods yet. The engine was run in stages for 5 hours, going through the recommended step ups. When it was time for high RPMs the prop was set the specified Static RPM. (Yeah, double checked with a separate optical meter) In regards to the heavy left wing, where I said "strong" force is required to overcome it. Well, what is strong, perhaps the same force required to initiate a bank. I do think one or two trim tabs will cure that. I have a question. For all those sweetheart perfectly trimmed Kolbs, how long will it fly when you remove your hand, or do you still need to switch hands to set the flaps. Oh yes, how many of you use flaps in a normal landing. (considering the acute pwr off sink rate already - flames away!) To be sure, I thank you for and appreciate all your writing efforts. (I'll confess, I did a few quick deletes) Off line I have been in contact with one of yours, a hundreds of hours guy, that has been most helpful. His opening remarks were something like "Hi, when I started out, I had very similar experiences" was a most reassuring msg someone could send to me. Haven't had that much time to work on the Kolb, since its airport is 2 hours away, at Columbia Co. Airport in upstate NY, plus weather has been some fickle. Shall I dare do another follow-up? Herb MarK IIIc, 246KT, 1.3 hrs and going. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:04 AM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Confident With My Equipment Great photo Downunder ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Confident With My Equipment > Hi Gang: > > I was rambling around my computer tonight and came across this photo of > the > Owyhee River Canon, approaching Leslie Gulch Boat Ramp. This was on our > flight to Oregon last May 2009. This is one of my favorite photos of that > area. Brings back some great memories of a wonderful day the Rock House > Gang had flying out of Larry Cottrell's place in SE Oregon. > > john h > mkIII > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:51 AM PST US From: neilsenrm@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, Herb I think I have invested as much time as anyone with you. Wow where do I sta rt. We care about our airplanes and those that fly them. We just lost Homer Kol b and one of our members. You came to us twice describing a plane that was a nightmare on the ground and in the air. We don't know you and assumed you were being honest. A bunc h of us tried to help you only to find out in the very best case you misrep resented what happened??? Based on your information=C2-it appeared that you were ignoring all our s uggestions and were going to fly this nightmare with wings again. At that t ime Jetpilot's post was strong but with refection now maybe appropriate. Wh at if someone really was trying to fly the plane as described with those pi loting skills or attitude. For you Herb I suggest=C2-you reevaluate your airplane and yourself.=C2 - When you are ready to accurately report information not just bash our a irplanes we are here to help. P.S. This is outrage. The others were just misplaced concern. Oooo Please.... Do Not Archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: HGRAFF @ aol .com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:09:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: Kolb -List: Re: First Flight follow-up, Wow, I've been away from the computer for a couple of days and find a regul ar storm of many outraged=C2-responses. Also, as well, intended helpful =C2-ones. My, I've been told I have an attitude problem, with the=C2-implications I don't appreciate good advice, fly an out of rig, out of CG, not built to p lans, porpoising monster into an imminent crash. Guys cool it. The porpoising only lasted 3 - 4 seconds into the first fligh t, when I over-controlled, surprised by the sensitivity of the pitch. My fr iend, another GA type had the same problem. Maybe it=C2-was my problem fo r calling this sensitivity "extreme", because I find it at the extreme end of anything I've flown before, excepting maybe the helicopter I owned. Gosh , I only asked the "insane" question if anybody had done anything to reduce this pitch sensitivity. To put some of the feathers down, let me state the CG is normal, Mr. FAA we nt through the various load calculations to check. This is a straight built classic, without any mods yet. The engine was run in stages for 5 hours, g oing through the recommended step ups. When it was time for high RPMs the p rop was set the specified Static RPM. (Yeah, double checked with a separate optical meter) In regards to the heavy left wing, where I said "strong" force is required to overcome it. Well, what is strong, perhaps the same force required to in itiate a bank. I do think one or two trim tabs will cure that. I have a question. For all those sweetheart perfectly trimmed Kolbs , how l ong will it fly when you remove your hand, or do you still need to switch h ands to set the flaps. Oh yes, how many of you use flaps in a normal landin g. (considering the acute pwr off sink rate already - flames away!) To be sure, I thank you for and=C2-appreciate all your writing efforts. ( I'll confess, I did a few quick deletes) Off line I have been in contact with one of yours, a hundreds of hours guy, that has been most helpful. His opening remarks=C2-were something like =C2-"Hi, when I started out, I had very similar experiences" was a most =C2-reassuring msg someone could send to me.=C2- Haven't had that much time to work on the Kolb , since its airport is 2 hou rs away, at Columbia Co. Airport in upstate NY, plus weather has been some fickle. Shall I dare do another follow-up? Herb MarK IIIc , 246KT,=C2- 1.3 hrs and going. ======= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area o From: "Thom Riddle" Good videos as usual, Larry. I bought one those chewing gum cameras like yours from Amazon.com hoping to do some videos from my Slingshot. But it turns out that the advertiser's claim that it is compatible with Macintosh computers is untrue, so I sent it back and got a full refund with no hassle. I have a Sony that works well and will have to rig a mount of some sort to use it. At least it has a remote that I can use in the cabin. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258806#258806 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:41 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Cockpit controlled trim for Firestar-2 - Request Inputs From: "Richard Pike" This one worked pretty good. May work again after I rebuild the airplane... http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/FSII%20Hot%20Box.html Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258807#258807 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:17 AM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trying to takeoff At 11:47 PM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >Possum, >Aren't you limited to only 3 rounds in your gun when shooting geese or ducks? > >Boy, if a low down nasty Sport Pilot types should happen across your >video and forward it on to a wild life protection group, your going >to be big heap of pig crap explaining this. They'll have the video >of those explosive rounds knocking those birds out of the >sky. Perpetrator hung, case closed. >jerb No, I'm pretty sure it's legal, if you don't have it on "full auto". Look under the LSA regs (I'm a stickler for regulations) see section ..................I forget the section right now. The geese started it with the "Sully" Sullenberger incident anyway! I've sent it in to the Sierra Club and PETA a couple of times for their Nature Film Festival, but they keep bouncing it back? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5232234046747826901 Possum -------- "NO BEER" - Not going as fast as you can? Let me help you out - which way did you come in? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:26 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area of Owyhee Very cool, Larry!- But where's the engine sound? Somehow there's a cowboy yodeling instead of the sweet sound of the engine. Arty www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Larry Cottrell wrote: From: Larry Cottrell Subject: Kolb-List: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks a rea of Owyhee =0A=0A =0A =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cqp3PrUQUg=0A-=0A- =0AI uploaded a short video of the Three Forks area of the =0AOwyhee from a n unusual height for me. All the better to see cows at, not on =0Avideo of course, but to the naked eye.=0ALarry C=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:15 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight follow-up, From: "JetPilot" Herb, There are no hard feelings here, I hope you feel welcome on the list. It is full of good people and good information. This is the best source of information on the planet for your Kolb. One thing you need to understand, I took your flight report the only way I could, just as you wrote it. There have been Kolbs flown before that were on the edge of control, and from what you described, that is where you were, a very dangerous condition. If that is not that case, I am very happy, I don't like reading accident reports and fatalities in Kolbs. You also need to know that after a bunch of good advice, you proposed the use of anti servo tabs to correct some of your listed problems... Again a very dangerous option, it should not surprise you in the least you got a very direct and harsh response. Just remember, it was to help you. I have nothing to gain by being hard on you, except for the fact that had everything gone wrong and you had crashed, that I would have been able to sleep at night knowing I did everything I possibly could. First in a nice, and then in a not so gentle way, to get you to rig your plane correctly and safely. No one here will jump all over your case for asking a question, ask away ! I dont use flaps for landing either, My Kolb comes down very quickly without them. I always do my landings from high, and at flight idle all the way down. If that engine is going to quit, many times they like to quit when you pull back the power to idle. Be high enough that you can continue your approach with or without the engine. Its a bit more difficult than the standard 3 degree glideslope with power, but I think its a good technique once you are confident in the airplane. Of course, work up to this, because it does make for a more difficult flare and landing. I learned to fly my Kolb doing normal, partial power approaches, and transitioned over as soon as I felt I could do it without bending the gear. Trim tabs are OK on the ailerons for small changes, I have them on mine for very small corrections, like only the difference between having a passenger or not in the right seat... I also have fixed trim tabs on my elevator, again a very small correction. Be careful, trim tabs can bite you ! Adding to much weight to the control surface can cause flutter, ( anti servo tab on elevator ), and also having a trim tab come lose can easily cause flutter and be fatal. Treat trim tabs with great respect, they can be very dangerous if not attached securely. Done correctly , they can be a great help. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258902#258902 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Confident With My Equipment From: "JetPilot" Incredible photo John, something like you would see in a magazine. I bet there would be a lot of happy people here on the list if you would post more of those :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258921#258921 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:34 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area of Owyhee There is no way to win, first I leave out the music, someone wants music, now its too quiet and yodeling to boot? Try humming to your self and making engine noises with your mouth on the next one. :-) Larry (Dangerfield) C ----- Original Message ----- From: TheWanderingWench To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying the range, looking for cows in the three forks area of Owyhee Very cool, Larry! But where's the engine sound? Somehow there's a cowboy yodeling instead of the sweet sound of the engine. Arty ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:15 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Confident With My Equipment > Incredible photo John, something like you would see in a magazine. I bet there would be a lot of happy people here on the list if you would post more of those :) > > Mike Hi Mike B/Gang: Thanks for the complement. The mission of posting that photo was two fold. First, because I liked it and thought it was a pretty area. Second, it is very hostile terrain with few places to land without tearing up the airplane, and maybe me. This demonstrates my confidence in the equipment I fly. All the equipment I fly, to keep me from having to land in those kinds of places. I acquired that confidence by testing what I fly for many hours in many different parts of the North American Continent, in many different meteorological conditions. I try to maintain the KISS principal, Keep It Simple Stupid. That works much better for me. Here's another exciting photo. I'm trying to teach Larry Cottrell how to hook his seatbelt and shoulder harness at MV 2004. ;-) Thanks again. john h mkIII ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.