Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/30/09


Total Messages Posted: 44



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:34 AM - Re: Re: Wingtips (pj.ladd)
     2. 02:34 AM - Re: Re: Wingtips (pj.ladd)
     3. 02:35 AM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (pj.ladd)
     4. 03:43 AM - Re: Firestar II vs Slingshot Kolbra (Thom Riddle)
     5. 03:55 AM - Re: Wingtips (icrashrc)
     6. 04:57 AM - Re: Wingtips (David Lucas)
     7. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Wingtips (Jack B. Hart)
     8. 07:29 AM - Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay (Kirkds)
     9. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay (Richard Girard)
    10. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay (John Hauck)
    11. 08:15 AM - Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay (Kirkds)
    12. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay (John Hauck)
    13. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay (Richard Girard)
    14. 09:04 AM - Transporting a Kolb (Tim Warlick)
    15. 09:15 AM - Re: New Kolb Group , free site (planecrazzzy)
    16. 10:14 AM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (Robert Laird)
    17. 10:23 AM - Re: Transporting a Kolb (Richard Girard)
    18. 10:23 AM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (robert bean)
    19. 10:42 AM - Re: Transporting a Kolb (Robert Laird)
    20. 02:49 PM - Re: Warp props and Rotax 582 (b young)
    21. 03:14 PM - Re: fuel filters (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
    22. 04:36 PM - always do your preflight! (Jimmy Young)
    23. 04:51 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (zeprep251@aol.com)
    24. 04:54 PM - Re: always do your preflight! (zeprep251@aol.com)
    25. 05:05 PM - Re: Transporting a Kolb (zeprep251@aol.com)
    26. 05:08 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (russ kinne)
    27. 05:12 PM - Re: always do your preflight! (ces308)
    28. 05:37 PM - Re: always do your preflight! (albertakolbmk3)
    29. 05:41 PM - Re: Transporting a Kolb (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
    30. 05:44 PM - Re: Thanks - Appreciate differences in VG discussion now! (xauxi99)
    31. 05:51 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (zeprep251@aol.com)
    32. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: always do your preflight! (robert bean)
    33. 06:42 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (Robert Laird)
    34. 06:43 PM - Re: always do your preflight! (John Hauck)
    35. 06:56 PM - Re: always do your preflight! (John Hauck)
    36. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: always do your preflight! (John Hauck)
    37. 07:10 PM - Re: Warp props and Rotax 582 (HShack@aol.com)
    38. 07:13 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (John Hauck)
    39. 07:24 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (Jack B. Hart)
    40. 07:40 PM - Re: powered and unpowered weights (Jack B. Hart)
    41. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: always do your preflight! (robert bean)
    42. 08:02 PM - Re: Transporting a Kolb (cristalclear13)
    43. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: always do your preflight! (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
    44. 08:50 PM - Re: always do your preflight! (Dennis Souder)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:34:56 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Wingtips
    Wasn't the Spit wingtip changed from elliptical to squared-off? For more efficiency?>> Hi Russ, In the B of B all the Spits had eliptical wings. Later Spits did have a clipped wing. I think that was because dogfighting had moved to much higher altitudes. I love the theory that the Me109 had squared wing tips because German hangar doors were narrower. Cheers Pat


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:34:56 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Wingtips
    It isn't if you have an excess of power and don't have to pay for the fuel.>> Hi Jack, thats part of it of course but surely each of the designers was striving for the highest efficiency he could get for other reasons. Cheers Pat


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:35:09 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a propeller > turned by bicycle pedals. It wouldn`t be an ultralight or a glider, but a separate category. Apart from that fact, someone already has. It was called the `Gossamer something` (i have forgotten and I am too busy to look it up. Party for 60 people in about 90 minutes). it was built as light as possible with an immense wingspan. The power was a highly trained cyclist taught to fly for the occasion. He made it from Dover to France, mainly in ground effect and collapsed exhausted on the beach. The human body could not generate enough horse power to get an ordinary ultralight off the ground. Cheers Pat


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:43:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firestar II vs Slingshot Kolbra
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Dale, I recently purchased a Slingshot and used to own an early Firestar, 2 of them actually. And I give instruction in a MkIII C w/ 582. I've never flown a FSII or mk3X, or Kolbra, or Ultrastar or Firefly. IN MY OPINION: For low and slow the early Firestar is hard to beat for solo flight. The MkIIIC is a good and capable airplane for side-by-side flying with a friend. The Slingshot is a joy to fly if you like quick responsive roll control and relative comfort in bumpy air but not enough wing for two heavy occupants so I fly it solo. Range is function of fuel supply, fuel consumption rate and airspeed. Any experimental airplane can be made to go further by improving any or all of these factors. This was probably not worth much but it was cheap. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260447#260447


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:55:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wingtips
    From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc@aol.com>
    Pat, Please point me to where i can find more info about these planes. The only one's i know of with the names Spitfire, Hurricane, and ME 109 were designed well over 60 years ago. :-) Our understanding of aerodynamics has changed substantially in the last 10 years, let alone 60+. pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > Isn`t it surprising in view of all the furore aboout the superiority of one > wing tip over another that three top designers designed three different > planes, with different wing tips to do the same job. > > Spitfire Elliptical > Hurricane. Round > Me 109 Square > > Maybe is isn`t that important after all. > > Pat -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260448#260448


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:57:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wingtips
    From: "David Lucas" <d_a_lucas@hotmail.com>
    Just wondering how relevant comparisons to high performance WWll fighters is to the Kolb wing. They're flying at 250 kts plus, 3 to 4 times that of the Kolb (at least). A performance enhancement in those types might not produce any measurable result in the Kolb even if it does work. Surely it's more a factor of high wing loading and high speed that the difference's show significant results. However, I can remember the DC3 with its rounded wingtip was very heavy on the ailerons. The Basler conversions (where they put on two PT6 turboprops etc, instead of the P&W 1830 radials) changed the rounded wingtip shape to a raked design and the aileron control improved a lot (or so I'm told) but the speed stayed similar (maybe a little faster and probably due to the higher HP not the wingtip), so nicer handling was the result. Interesting thread anyway. David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260449#260449


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:23:40 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Wingtips
    At 10:21 AM 8/30/09 +0100, you wrote: > >It isn't if you have an excess of power and don't have to pay for the >fuel.>> > >Hi Jack, >thats part of it of course but surely each of the designers was striving for >the highest efficiency he could get for other reasons. > >Cheers > Pat. I agree. The design end goal sets the definition of efficiency. If you want to climb faster, you an add wing and/or increase engine power. Etc. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:29:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay
    From: "Kirkds" <kirkds@dishmail.net>
    My filter with the warped plastic tube. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260466#260466 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_filter_926.jpg


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:49:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Please turn your flash on. I can't make out anything, the picture is so dark. Rick Girard do not archive On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Kirkds <kirkds@dishmail.net> wrote: > > My filter with the warped plastic tube. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260466#260466 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_filter_926.jpg > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:04:35 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay
    > My filter with the warped plastic tube. > Kirk S/Gang: If it was mine, I'd replace the plastic tube with a piece of 6061 tubing, if the rest of the filter looks like it will be serviceable and reliable. john h mkIII


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:15:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay
    From: "Kirkds" <kirkds@dishmail.net>
    Rick it looks good here . Does it show ok to anyone besides me? John, I did that per your suggestion and it appeers to be working ok. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260475#260475


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:39:40 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay
    > Rick it looks good here . Does it show ok to anyone besides me? John, I did that per your suggestion and it appeers to be working ok. > Kirk S/Gang: I am very careful not to overtighten the caps. On one occassion I did. Result was the end of the tube pulled past a round O ring causing a leak. Some replacement element kits come with square cut and some round O rings. Usually the square cut is less Murphy proof. However, the round O ring seals work fine as long as I do not over tighten. I think the aluminum tube works best with square cut ends, rather than sanding and rounding. I polish the tube on a buffing wheel once in a blue moon, but am careful not to hit the square edges of each end to prevent rounding them off. My filter uses a circular thumb nut to secure the nylon element. I snug this up tight by hand. I have never used safety wire on it and never had a problem of this nut loosening up. Takes a couple minutes to inspect the filter by removal and disassembly, and the aluminum tube gives me the satisfaction it ain't gonna break in flight. john h mkIII


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:41:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Tried it with WMV and Irfanview, both showed up near black. Rick On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Kirkds <kirkds@dishmail.net> wrote: > > Rick it looks good here . Does it show ok to anyone besides me? John, I did > that per your suggestion and it appeers to be working ok. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260475#260475 > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:04:19 AM PST US
    From: "Tim Warlick" <timwarlick@mchsi.com>
    Subject: Transporting a Kolb
    All, Found out that I "may" be moving from Mobile, AL to Tucson, AZ. For those who have transported their Kolbs, should I let the movers try to move it in the moving van or should I rent a 26 foot U-Haul truck and drive it the 23 hours? Either way, with the wings folded it is pretty compact. What precautions do I need to take? Tim Warlick Kolb Mark 3 Classic BMW R100 powered


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:15:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New Kolb Group , free site
    From: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy@yahoo.com>
    There are a few kolb forums out there , most are neglected sites and not "set up" very good , or under lock and key... or infested with spam. without much posting... they die out I've written to them to see if we can gather a few of them to make another decent forum... We're already set up with a better home page and "Links" of building sites.... a lot of people have joined it already. There's a lot of people that won't put up with some of the people here. Hey ... it's worth a try... Better than just taking what's givin to you... If it doesn't work out , I'll delete the forum instead of letting it just sit around... Anybody got an address to their building site ? I'm still searching for more "Links" Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN . http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/ . . . -------- . . . . . Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260482#260482


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:14:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    From: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
    The good news is, you won't need a transponder since the engine doesn't create any electrical power. ;-) On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: > You've answered your own question, I think."an ultralight that was powered > by a propeller turned by bicycle pedals", powered is powered. > * > * > *Rick > * > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, <Masqqqqqqq@aol.com> wrote: > >> *Here's an odd question:* >> ** >> * Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a >> propeller turned by bicycle pedals. There is no engine. Would this machine >> need to make the weight of a powered ultralight, 254 pounds, or an unpowered >> glider, 155 pounds. ?* >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:23:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transporting a Kolb
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Tim, It it were me I'd get the U-Haul. That's the way I brought mine back from Alabama. The best precaution you can take is to get the main gear up off the floor of the truck so road shocks won't be transmitted to the plane. I used 4" foam pads with a plywood compression plate to spread the load over the entire piece of foam. Put the boom in a padded cradle to get the tail wheel off the floor for the same reason.I was the packaging engineer for an office equipment manufacturer in the 90's. I spent a couple of days at the Yellow Freight Packaging Laboratory filming tests of out packaging. One of the things I learned was that a normal highway expansion joint transmits a 6G shock load to the truck floor. Do that about 100,000 times (not an unusual number for 2,000 miles of road) and it will damage your aircraft Rick Girard do not archive On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Tim Warlick <timwarlick@mchsi.com> wrote: > All, > > Found out that I "may" be moving from Mobile, AL to Tucson, AZ. > > For those who have transported their Kolbs, should I let the movers try to > move it in the moving van or should I rent a 26 foot U-Haul truck and drive > it the 23 hours? > > Either way, with the wings folded it is pretty compact. What precautions do > I need to take? > > Tim Warlick > Kolb Mark 3 Classic > BMW R100 powered > > > * > > * > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:23:52 AM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    Strap a big leaf blower to your back. They can provide more continuous thrust than your feet. You will need a LONG wingspan, lots-o-wires and zero wind. BB On 30, Aug 2009, at 1:13 PM, Robert Laird wrote: > The good news is, you won't need a transponder since the engine > doesn't create any electrical power. ;-) > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Girard > <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: > You've answered your own question, I think. > "an ultralight that was powered by a propeller turned by bicycle > pedals", powered is powered. > > Rick > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, <Masqqqqqqq@aol.com> wrote: > Here's an odd question: > > Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a > propeller turned by bicycle pedals. There is no engine. Would > this machine need to make the weight of a powered ultralight, 254 > pounds, or an unpowered glider, 155 pounds. ? > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > a>http://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:42:56 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transporting a Kolb
    From: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
    To add to what Rick said, which I whole heartedly agree with.... of all the Kolbs I've seen transported, the most common mistake was not protecting the leading edge of the wings. I would suggest removing the wings, then wrapping them with foam rubber, doubly so on the leading edge. I suspended mine from the ceiling of the trailer and then rigged it with blankets, foam rubber, etc. so that the wings wouldn't move around. -- Robert On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote: > Tim, It it were me I'd get the U-Haul. That's the way I brought mine back > from Alabama. The best precaution you can take is to get the main gear up > off the floor of the truck so road shocks won't be transmitted to the plane. > I used 4" foam pads with a plywood compression plate to spread the load over > the entire piece of foam. Put the boom in a padded cradle to get the tail > wheel off the floor for the same reason. I was the packaging engineer for > an office equipment manufacturer in the 90's. I spent a couple of days at > the Yellow Freight Packaging Laboratory filming tests of out packaging. One > of the things I learned was that a normal highway expansion joint transmits > a 6G shock load to the truck floor. Do that about 100,000 times (not an > unusual number for 2,000 miles of road) and it will damage your aircraft > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Tim Warlick <timwarlick@mchsi.com>wrote: > >> All, >> >> Found out that I "may" be moving from Mobile, AL to Tucson, AZ. >> >> For those who have transported their Kolbs, should I let the movers try to >> move it in the moving van or should I rent a 26 foot U-Haul truck and drive >> it the 23 hours? >> >> Either way, with the wings folded it is pretty compact. What precautions >> do I need to take? >> >> Tim Warlick >> Kolb Mark 3 Classic >> BMW R100 powered >> >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > >


    Message 20


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    Time: 02:49:45 PM PST US
    From: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
    Subject: Warp props and Rotax 582
    I just bought a 66" 3 blade warp prop for my Mark III / Rotax 582. For those of you flying 582's, do I need a prop extension or will I have plenty of clearance? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Mark Rinehart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Don't worry only about the clearance The extension will give you better performance, quieter operation. Boyd Young


    Message 21


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    Time: 03:14:00 PM PST US
    From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: fuel filters
    I really don't want to stir things up again but. I have been using automotive Fram G1 fuel filters since day one VW powered MKIIIC with great results. They are made in Israel and have steel end caps that are securely attached. They have the following benefits: They are cheap app. $3 at Farm & Fleet and well made. Why spend more? They work good with ethanol, they have been designed and well tested with it. They don't need to be screwed together just right and don't unscrew in flight. Lets call it fool proof. They have lots of filter area They filter at least as fine as the clearview filters and most likely much finer. I can get them most anywhere. I don't need to change the glass tube to aluminum to make them safe. I can also see if they are getting clogged but with the low cost I change them once a year just because. They filter 100LL just fine. They have enough fuel flow capacity for my 302 V8 powered Cobra so they are fine for my VW. I don't know how they work with an oil mixture. I also don't know how they would stand up to water because I have a gascolator before the filter that at least minimizes the chance of water in the fuel. I do know I have one in my Cobra (car) that hasn't been changed in ten years and is still in good condition. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Clearview fuel filters on eBay > > I am very careful not to overtighten the caps. On one occassion I did. > Result was the end of the tube pulled past a round O ring causing a leak. > > Some replacement element kits come with square cut and some round O rings. > Usually the square cut is less Murphy proof. However, the round O ring > seals work fine as long as I do not over tighten. > > I think the aluminum tube works best with square cut ends, rather than > sanding and rounding. I polish the tube on a buffing wheel once in a blue > moon, but am careful not to hit the square edges of each end to prevent > rounding them off. >


    Message 22


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    Time: 04:36:20 PM PST US
    Subject: always do your preflight!
    From: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100@comcast.net>
    I found this cracked tailwire tang while doing my preflight this morning. It's the one on my left-side vertical tail. I happened to have a fresh new one on hand, so a little bend on the vice and 10 minutes of work and I was good to go. Prior to this happening, I had been thinking of a possible better way to assemble the Kolb tailwires by copying what is done on a lot of other GA planes in our hanger. They use the solid rods, threaded on both ends, with fork attachments and jam nuts. They also have tangs, but they are thicker than ours. I think I've seen one on a Kolb somewhere, just can't remember whose it was. Seems that would be better, if you never fold/unfold your plane. I have always looked very closely at those tangs on my preflights, looking for signs of a stress crack forming, but I never saw any indications on this one until I found it in this condition this morning. It had to have happened yesterday while I was out flying, because it wasn't there yesterday morning. Jimmy Y -------- Jimmy Young FS II, HKS 700 N7043P Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260526#260526 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0490_209.jpg


    Message 23


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    Time: 04:51:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    I guess it's just us old timers that remember the Gossamer Condor.No numbers on that aircraft but you had to be an Olympic class cyclist to fly it. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 1:23 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: powered and unpowered weights Strap a big leaf blower to your back. ?They can provide more continuous thrust than your feet. You will need a LONG wingspan, lots-o-wires and zero wind. BB On 30, Aug 2009, at 1:13 PM, Robert Laird wrote: The good news is, you won't need a transponder since the engine doesn't create any electrical power.? ;-) On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: You've answered your own question, I think. "an ultralight that was powered by a propeller turned by bicycle pedals", powered is powered. Rick On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, <Masqqqqqqq@aol.com> wrote: Here's an odd question: ? ??? Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a propeller turned by bicycle pedals.? There is no engine.? Would this machine need to make the weight of a powered ultralight, 254 pounds, or an unpowered glider, 155 pounds. ? get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 24


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    Time: 04:54:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Jimmy, Do you think that failure was caused by air loads or the amount of tension? ? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:35 pm Subject: Kolb-List: always do your preflight! I found this cracked tailwire tang while doing my preflight this morning. It's the one on my left-side vertical tail. I happened to have a fresh new one on hand, so a little bend on the vice and 10 minutes of work and I was good to go. Prior to this happening, I had been thinking of a possible better way to assemble the Kolb tailwires by copying what is done on a lot of other GA planes in our hanger. They use the solid rods, threaded on both ends, with fork attachments and jam nuts. They also have tangs, but they are thicker than ours. I think I've seen one on a Kolb somewhere, just can't remember whose it was. Seems that would be better, if you never fold/unfold your plane. I have always looked very closely at those tangs on my preflights, looking for signs of a stress crack forming, but I never saw any indications on this one until I found it in this condition this morning. It had to have happened yesterday while I was out flying, because it wasn't there yesterday morning. Jimmy Y -------- Jimmy Young FS II, HKS 700 N7043P Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260526#260526 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0490_209.jpg


    Message 25


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    Time: 05:05:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transporting a Kolb
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Tim, ? Trucks are firm riding.I would try to find a trailer. A car hauler is easy to adapt.I'll send you some pictures that may give you some ideas. G.Aman 5005 miles to MV and back -----Original Message----- From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 1:21 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Transporting a Kolb Tim, It it were me I'd get the U-Haul. That's the way I brought mine back from Alabama. The best precaution you can take is to get the main gear up off the floor of the truck so road shocks won't be transmitted to the plane. I used 4" foam pads with a plywood compression plate to spread the load over the entire piece of foam. Put the boom in a padded cradle to get the tail wheel off the floor for the same reason. I was the packaging engineer for an office equipment manufacturer in the 90's. I spent a couple of days at the Yellow Freight Packaging Laboratory filming tests of out packaging. One of the things I learned was that a normal highway expansion joint transmits a 6G shock load to the truck floor. Do that about 100,000 times (not an unusual number for 2,000 miles of road) and it will damage your aircraft Rick Girard do not archive On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Tim Warlick <timwarlick@mchsi.com> wrote: All, ? Found out that I "may" be moving from Mobile, AL to Tucson, AZ. ? For those?who have transported their Kolbs, should I let the movers try to move it in the moving van or should I rent a 26 foot U-Haul truck and drive it the 23 hours? ? Either way, with the wings folded it is pretty compact. What precautions do I need to take? ? Tim Warlick Kolb Mark 3 Classic BMW R100 powered ? ? get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 26


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    Time: 05:08:17 PM PST US
    From: russ kinne <russ@rkiphoto.com>
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    Gary You're right; only a few of us old-timers recall the Gossamer Condor -- and the Gossamer Albatross and the Solar Challenger, both of which crossed the English Channel. I guess after the Kremer Prize was awarded, interest dropped off. Aviation milestones, for sure. Russ do not archive On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:44 PM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote: > I guess it's just us old timers that remember the Gossamer > Condor.No numbers on that aircraft but you had to be an Olympic > class cyclist to fly it. > G.Aman > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 1:23 pm > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: powered and unpowered weights > > Strap a big leaf blower to your back. They can provide more > continuous thrust than your feet. > > You will need a LONG wingspan, lots-o-wires and zero wind. > BB > > > On 30, Aug 2009, at 1:13 PM, Robert Laird wrote: > >> The good news is, you won't need a transponder since the engine >> doesn't create any electrical power. ;-) >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Girard >> <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: >> You've answered your own question, I think. >> "an ultralight that was powered by a propeller turned by bicycle >> pedals", powered is powered. >> >> Rick >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, <Masqqqqqqq@aol.com> wrote: >> Here's an odd question: >> >> Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a >> propeller turned by bicycle pedals. There is no engine. Would >> this machine need to make the weight of a powered ultralight, 254 >> pounds, or an unpowered glider, 155 pounds. ? >> >> >> >> >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> a>http://forums.matronics.com >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// >> www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> > >


    Message 27


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    Time: 05:12:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    Hi Guys and Gals, This is what this list is about...keeping everyone safe . Thanks Jimmy! chris ambrose m3x/jab/ N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260537#260537


    Message 28


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    Time: 05:37:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    From: "albertakolbmk3" <cheriebraun@xplornet.com>
    Why so many adjacent holes. I would think that would have something to do with the failure. -------- Kolb MKIII C Rotax 582 C Gearbox 3.00:1 WD 66&quot; 3 Blade Prop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260542#260542


    Message 29


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    Time: 05:41:03 PM PST US
    From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Transporting a Kolb
    Tim For a one way trip like that it might just be alot easer to fly your plane. The weather this time of year should be fairly good and no mountains. Just a thought do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Warlick To: Kolb-List Digest Server Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Transporting a Kolb All, Found out that I "may" be moving from Mobile, AL to Tucson, AZ. For those who have transported their Kolbs, should I let the movers try to move it in the moving van or should I rent a 26 foot U-Haul truck and drive it the 23 hours? Either way, with the wings folded it is pretty compact. What precautions do I need to take? Tim Warlick Kolb Mark 3 Classic BMW R100 powered


    Message 30


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    Time: 05:44:22 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thanks - Appreciate differences in VG discussion now!
    From: "xauxi99" <a.thangnhaque@gmail.com>
    Marked! I will come back to check this soon!thanks a lot.:-) Une simulation credit immobilier de France a faire un pret. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260543#260543


    Message 31


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    Time: 05:51:53 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    I have no idea what any of them weighed ,been so long..... -----Original Message----- From: russ kinne <russ@rkiphoto.com> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:07 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: powered and unpowered weights Gary You're right; only a few of us old-timers recall the Gossamer Condor -- and the Gossamer Albatross and the Solar Challenger, both of which crossed the English Channel. I guess after the Kremer Prize was awarded, interest dropped off. Aviation milestones, for sure. Russ do not archive On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:44 PM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote: I guess it's just us old timers that remember the Gossamer Condor.No numbers on that aircraft but you had to be an Olympic class cyclist to fly it. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 1:23 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: powered and unpowered weights Strap a big leaf blower to your back. ?They can provide more continuous thrust than your feet. You will need a LONG wingspan, lots-o-wires and zero wind. BB On 30, Aug 2009, at 1:13 PM, Robert Laird wrote: The good news is, you won't need a transponder since the engine doesn't create any electrical power.? ;-) On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: You've answered your own question, I think. "an ultralight that was powered by a propeller turned by bicycle pedals", powered is powered. Rick On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, <Masqqqqqqq@aol.com> wrote: Here's an odd question: ? ??? Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a propeller turned by bicycle pedals.? There is no engine.? Would this machine need to make the weight of a powered ultralight, 254 pounds, or an unpowered glider, 155 pounds. ? get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 32


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    Time: 06:20:05 PM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    That is a good point. Although Kolb supplied the original kits with the multi-hole tangs because that was the only adjustment (aside from a small one possible by twisting the cable) In this case I would fab a plain steel tang with one hole because of the turnbarrel. (sorry, had to call it by its real name) BB On 30, Aug 2009, at 8:36 PM, albertakolbmk3 wrote: > <cheriebraun@xplornet.com> > > Why so many adjacent holes. I would think that would have something > to do with the failure. > > -------- > Kolb MKIII C > Rotax 582 > C Gearbox 3.00:1 > WD 66&quot; 3 Blade Prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260542#260542 > >


    Message 33


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    Time: 06:42:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    From: Robert Laird <rlaird@cavediver.com>
    70 lbs... more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Condor On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 7:46 PM, <zeprep251@aol.com> wrote: > I have no idea what any of them weighed ,been so long..... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: russ kinne <russ@rkiphoto.com> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:07 pm > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: powered and unpowered weights > > Gary You're right; only a few of us old-timers recall the Gossamer Condor > -- and the Gossamer Albatross and the Solar Challenger, both of which > crossed the English Channel. > I guess after the Kremer Prize was awarded, interest dropped off. > Aviation milestones, for sure. > Russ > do not archive > > On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:44 PM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote: > > I guess it's just us old timers that remember the Gossamer Condor.No > numbers on that aircraft but you had to be an Olympic class cyclist to fly > it. > G.Aman > > -----Original Message----- > From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 1:23 pm > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: powered and unpowered weights > > Strap a big leaf blower to your back. They can provide more continuous > thrust than your feet. > You will need a LONG wingspan, lots-o-wires and zero wind. > BB > > > On 30, Aug 2009, at 1:13 PM, Robert Laird wrote: > > The good news is, you won't need a transponder since the engine doesn't > create any electrical power. ;-) > > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>wrote: > >> You've answered your own question, I think. "an ultralight that was >> powered by a propeller turned by bicycle pedals", powered is powered. >> * >> * >> *Rick >> * >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, <Masqqqqqqq@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> *Here's an odd question:* >>> ** >>> * Just say somebody built an ultralight that was powered by a >>> propeller turned by bicycle pedals. There is no engine. Would this machine >>> need to make the weight of a powered ultralight, 254 pounds, or an unpowered >>> glider, 155 pounds. ?* >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >>> >>> >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> >> >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> >> a>http://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> * >> >> > * > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > > > * > > > * > > * > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * > > * > > * > >


    Message 34


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    Time: 06:43:01 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    > I found this cracked tailwire tang while doing my preflight this morning. > It's the one on my left-side vertical tail. I happened to have a fresh new > one on hand, so a little bend on the vice and 10 minutes of work and I was > good to go. > > Jimmy Y Jimmy Y/Gang: I don't like those multi-hole tangs, especially stainless steel, plus being bent to fit. Glad you caught that one. I have never used that style. I have used the SS tangs with one hole each end with good success. My mkIII is equipped with 4130 tangs I made from strap and turn buckles to adjust the tension. john h mkIII


    Message 35


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    Time: 06:56:44 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    I'm not Jimmy Y, but I'd like to respond. My best guess would be vibration and a stress riser where the tang was bent across punched holes in SS. SS is much less stress resistant as 4130. Jim's photo shows two bends in the tang. One of those bends goes right thr ough the hole that broke. If my old eyes are seeing correctly. john h mkIII Jimmy, Do you think that failure was caused by air loads or the amount of tensio n? G.Aman


    Message 36


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    Time: 07:10:36 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    > In this case I would fab a plain steel tang with one hole because of > the turnbarrel. (sorry, had to call it by its real name) > BB Bob B: Isn't the "turnbuckle barrel" one part of the turnbuckle? The other two parts being a pin or cable fork??? john h mkIII


    Message 37


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    Time: 07:10:36 PM PST US
    From: HShack@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Warp props and Rotax 582
    If you have a "B" box, I think the prop inertia will be too great. It may work for years & years, but maybe not...... Shack In a message dated 8/30/2009 5:50:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, by0ung@brigham.net writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net> I just bought a 66" 3 blade warp prop for my Mark III / Rotax 582. For those of you flying 582's, do I need a prop extension or will I have plenty of clearance? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Mark Rinehart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Don't worry only about the clearance The extension will give you better performance, quieter operation. Boyd Young **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! =JulystepsfooterNO115)


    Message 38


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    Time: 07:13:02 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    How does this subject relate with building and flying Kolb aircraft? Without adding DO NOT ARCHIVE, it goes in the Kolb archives so someone can find info on it in years to come. Don't get your panties in a wad or I will start talking about VG's and fuel filters. john h - Just curious! mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE 70 lbs... more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Condor


    Message 39


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    Time: 07:24:45 PM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    From: zeprep251@aol.com I have no idea what any of them weighed ,been so long..... ------------------------- Gossamer Condor and Gossamer Albatross both weighed 209 pounds empty. Estimated power to fly was .48 hp. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 40


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    Time: 07:40:38 PM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: powered and unpowered weights
    From: zeprep251@aol.com I have no idea what any of them weighed ,been so long..... ------------------------- Gossamer Condor and Gossamer Albatross both weighed 209 pounds empty. Correction - should have written loaded full up. Estimated power to fly was .48 hp. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 41


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    Time: 07:41:54 PM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    The old west coast aviation guys used to call them turnbarrels as do some UK countries. I just like to call them that because I don't see a buckle there. I would still call the hardware store variety a turnbuckle though. The aeronca C-3 and some others actually used them for lift struts. :( I shall now yield to common usage. I shall also think about a design change on mine, plus closer preflights until then. BB On 30, Aug 2009, at 10:05 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > In this case I would fab a plain steel tang with one hole because of >> the turnbarrel. (sorry, had to call it by its real name) >> BB > > Bob B: > > Isn't the "turnbuckle barrel" one part of the turnbuckle? > > The other two parts being a pin or cable fork??? > > john h > mkIII > >


    Message 42


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    Time: 08:02:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Transporting a Kolb
    From: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters@gmail.com>
    timwarlick(at)mchsi.com wrote: > All, > > Found out that I "may" be moving from Mobile, AL to Tucson, AZ. > > For those who have transported their Kolbs, should I let the movers try to move it in the moving van or should I rent a 26 foot U-Haul truck and drive it the 23 hours? > > Either way, with the wings folded it is pretty compact. What precautions do I need to take? > > Tim Warlick > Kolb Mark 3 Classic > BMW R100 powered > I rented a 26 foot Uhaul truck to get my Mark II from northern Alabama to southeast Georgia, about an 8 or 9 hour trip. The man I bought the plane from had some homemade wood wing holders padded with carpet, and we also padded it with extra moving blankets. I believe we strapped the wings to the side wall as well. We nailed some boards into the floor on both sides of the tires (don't know if we were supposed to do that to the truck, but it had a wood floor and we removed it after we were done). As you can see in the picture we used rachet straps wrapped around the board that runs along the side of the truck wall to help stabilize it. We put foam in between the horizontal and vertical stabilizer while it was folded up, but we missed a spot and the only damage I had to the entire plane after the move was a small hole in my horizontal stabilizer. The other ideas already mentioned from others would be a good thing to incorporate if you decide to go with the Uhaul truck. By the way I had four men to lift the plane in and out of the truck. My Mark II is about 400 pounds. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260574#260574 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/transporting_the_twinstar_168.jpg


    Message 43


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    Time: 08:12:23 PM PST US
    From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
    Subject: Re: always do your preflight!
    In a message dated 8/30/2009 8:38:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cheriebraun@xplornet.com writes: Why so many adjacent holes. I would think that would have something to do with the failure. cherie/all The tang with several holes was designed so as to be able to adjust the length of the cable for proper tension. By moving the bolt from one hole to another, it will either tighten or loosen the cable. On the tangs with only one hole (at each end of course) they could be adjusted by installing or removing washers placed under the tang. My builders manual mentioned this and suggested installing at least one washer between the tang and the tail surface when being built so if adjustment was needed later it could be done as described. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ


    Message 44


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    Time: 08:50:54 PM PST US
    From: "Dennis Souder" <flykolb@pa.net>
    Subject: always do your preflight!
    Jimmy, It looks like the clevis end of the turnbuckle may have been pressing on the tang as there appears to be an indented marking on the tang matching the curvature of the clevis end. (Sometimes photos are deceiving, but it does give this appearance.) I don't know if at some point in the life of the airplane that when the wings were folded the turnbuckle was leveraging the tang and flexed it ... possibly when folding the tail, the turnbuckle had some pressure on it and in turn flexed the tang? I know the tang is not 4130 and there are holes in it - but even still there is a lot of strength in the tang. I have a hard time thinking that the crack resulted from tension loads alone. The tang is designed to replace a turnbuckle and consequently most Kolbs would not have the turnbuckle. So this is probably a relatively rare set-up and possibly the turnbuckle and tail folding had something to do with it? Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy Young Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:36 PM Subject: Kolb-List: always do your preflight! I found this cracked tailwire tang while doing my preflight this morning. It's the one on my left-side vertical tail. I happened to have a fresh new one on hand, so a little bend on the vice and 10 minutes of work and I was good to go. Prior to this happening, I had been thinking of a possible better way to assemble the Kolb tailwires by copying what is done on a lot of other GA planes in our hanger. They use the solid rods, threaded on both ends, with fork attachments and jam nuts. They also have tangs, but they are thicker than ours. I think I've seen one on a Kolb somewhere, just can't remember whose it was. Seems that would be better, if you never fold/unfold your plane. I have always looked very closely at those tangs on my preflights, looking for signs of a stress crack forming, but I never saw any indications on this one until I found it in this condition this morning. It had to have happened yesterday while I was out flying, because it wasn't there yesterday morning. Jimmy Y -------- Jimmy Young FS II, HKS 700 N7043P Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260526#260526 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0490_209.jpg




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