---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/04/09: 62 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:23 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Tony Oldman) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Thom Riddle) 3. 03:54 AM - Re: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue (Denny Rowe) 4. 03:58 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (icrashrc) 5. 04:29 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Thom Riddle) 6. 04:51 AM - Re: Tail wheel support and brace (william sullivan) 7. 05:25 AM - Re: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue (Dennis Souder) 8. 05:28 AM - spreadsheet (dsmald@aol.com) 9. 05:32 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (geoffthis) 10. 06:13 AM - Aging Kolbers (Lanny Fetterman) 11. 06:16 AM - Re: Tail wheel support and brace (zeprep251@aol.com) 12. 06:16 AM - Re: Re: Aging Kolbers (Richard Girard) 13. 06:25 AM - Re: Tail wheel support and brace (robert bean) 14. 07:03 AM - Re: spreadsheet (Robert Laird) 15. 07:17 AM - Re: Tail wheel support and brace (Larry Cottrell) 16. 07:35 AM - flying (russ kinne) 17. 07:38 AM - Aging Kolbers (Lloyd McFarlane) 18. 08:09 AM - Old Kolbers (John Brooks) 19. 08:29 AM - Old Pilots (Terry Davis) 20. 08:46 AM - Re: Tail wheel support and brace (JetPilot) 21. 09:09 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Jody Morgan) 22. 09:09 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL) 23. 09:09 AM - old pilots (JAMES BEARD) 24. 09:17 AM - Re: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue (JetPilot) 25. 09:22 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Dennis Souder) 26. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: Aging Kolbers (Clyde MacQuarrie) 27. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue (Larry Cottrell) 28. 09:54 AM - Re: flying (robert bean) 29. 10:12 AM - breakfast flight (zeprep251@aol.com) 30. 10:13 AM - neat restaraunt (zeprep251@aol.com) 31. 10:27 AM - Re: Kolb gph fuel burn survey (Eugene Zimmerman) 32. 10:43 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Beauford T) 33. 11:06 AM - Re: neat restaraunt (cristalclear13) 34. 11:13 AM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Gene Ledbetter) 35. 11:54 AM - Winching a Kolb (Lanny Fetterman) 36. 12:16 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers (GARY JINDRA) 37. 12:25 PM - Re: Winching a Kolb (Gene Ledbetter) 38. 12:49 PM - Re: Winching a Kolb (George Alexander) 39. 12:54 PM - The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Robert Laird) 40. 01:10 PM - How old? (HShack@aol.com) 41. 02:12 PM - Winching a Kolb (Lanny Fetterman) 42. 02:49 PM - Tail shaking (Jim Kmet) 43. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: neat restaraunt (zeprep251@aol.com) 44. 02:54 PM - Re: Dear JP (Kolbdriver) 45. 03:19 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers (gliderx5@comcast.net) 46. 03:48 PM - Re: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Eddie) 47. 03:53 PM - Re: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Robert Laird) 48. 04:17 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers () 49. 04:17 PM - Re: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Robert Laird) 50. 04:23 PM - Re: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Beauford T) 51. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: Tail wheel support and brace (John Hauck) 52. 05:03 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Dave Kulp) 53. 05:18 PM - Third Impressions (HGRAFF@aol.com) 54. 05:50 PM - Re: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Jmmy Hankinson) 55. 06:41 PM - Re: Tail shaking (robert bean) 56. 06:56 PM - Re: Tail shaking (planecrazzzy) 57. 07:00 PM - Re: Tail shaking (daniel myers) 58. 07:37 PM - Good chance you can't help but join in! (HGRAFF@aol.com) 59. 08:44 PM - Re: Tail shaking (JetPilot) 60. 09:01 PM - Re: Tail wheel support and brace (JetPilot) 61. 09:42 PM - Re: Good chance you can't help but join in! (robert bean) 62. 10:39 PM - Re: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) (Robert Laird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:00 AM PST US From: "Tony Oldman" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers A young 55 Tony Downunder MK111C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:14 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers > > Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful > information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long > time, I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers > coming along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't > mind, please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll > compile and post the results. > > I am only 61 so I hope to have lots more flying years ahead of me. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > Jabiru 2200A #1574 > Tennessee Prop 66x34 > > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a > simple system that works. > - John Gaule > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261170#261170 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:34 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers From: "Thom Riddle" Wow! Eight more added their ages since my last compilation. As of now... 32 responders 5 at 70 and older 9 in 60s 8 in 50s 7 in 40s 3 younger than 40 ~ 56% are under 60 -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 66x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261376#261376 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:53 AM PST US From: "Denny Rowe" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue Mike B, Seems like you have a lot of slack in your tailwheel springs and chains, am I seeing that correctly? If so I would think your ground handling might not be as good as it could be. Dennis Rowe, PA, Mk-3 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:34 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers From: "icrashrc" 47 -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261379#261379 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:35 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers From: "Thom Riddle" Oops! I went back over the posts and apparently I missed some responses. Current data 36 responders 8 @ 70 up 9 in 60s 8 in 50s 8 in 40s 3 under 40 Mean 57.7 Median 59 Max 83 Min 19 ~ 53% under 60 -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 66x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261381#261381 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:42 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail wheel support and brace - Larry- Did you make the tubes out of steel, or aluminum? - ------------------------- ------------------------ Bi ll Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------ Wi ndsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------------ FS 447 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:47 AM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue Everyone, I really hope, for all your sakes, that I am not the ultimate authority on this as I have been out of the loop on this stuff for about 10 years - but I can perhaps add a little bit of perspective. The information exchange here is awesome and I have learned something I did not know and that was the breaking of the 4-hole tangs on the Rans. But, the fact is that adding a turnbuckle does change the dynamics in several ways (changes are seldom made without consequences), so if you are going to make a change, realize that your airplane just became MORE experimental. The turnbuckles do present a real hazard when folding in the potential to overstress the tang. Plus it makes it very easy to over-tension the wires which places further stress on the tangs. I think we are all concerned with safety, but too many times we get too micro-focused with the safety issues that we can see - not the ones we can't see. Homer and I both shared a conviction that having turnbuckes on the tail wires represented a real safety issue in that forgetting to safety wire a turnbuckle is something very easy to do. So, for that and other reasons we felt they represented a real safety issue. All our conversations with Kolb builders over the years has only strengthened this conviction - it is so easy to overlook something when the airplane gives the appearance of being fully assembled. Most of us are amateur builders and mechanics and we easily forget little details like safety pins, safety wire, lock nuts, etc. but us professionals forget too. Ask me how I know. If I were in the business today, I would probably continue with a 4-hole tang, but it would be a 4130 tang made just a little thicker - depending upon application. Originally we did not use the 4-hole tang or turnbuckles - nothing is really needed. But the adjustments make life easier. I would still not use turnbuckles for the reasons I previously mentioned in an earlier email and above. But I did add double wires to the Slingshot from the beginning because I felt they were needed for the higher speeds the SS was capable of going. (I also added a significant internal brace (from the wire attach point back to the inside corner of the stabilizer) to properly handle the inward loads imposed by the wire on the leading edge tube.) I don't know all the reasons why other manufacturers may use double wires on the tail, but I do know the major reason - their tail design requires it - it is not optional for them. With a rectangular tail one cannot say that they have double tail wires for safety - the design requires it. The light weight tail structure is not torsionally stiff enough to be held by only one set of wires. I can further guesstimate that many times this rectangular shape is chosen not for aerodynamics - but rather for manufacturing ease. Many of these tails are just a series of bends in a tube. This is much easier, faster and less expensive than the 3-separate tubes the Kolb uses that must be gusseted and riveted at every corner. Homer has always used the triangular plan form on the tail because it will not stall nearly as easily as a rectangular one will. So in Homer's mind aerodynamics (shape) is a safety issue. Probably not many on the list see tail planform shape as a safety issue - but Homer did. I noticed on the photo of the tail, that another change has been introduced: the curved leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer - and I have seen these before too. This type design, while not being rectangular - it has definitely been taken out of the triangular scenario with its direct load paths. So if one wants a curved leading edge, I would say should have a double set of wires - depends upon degree of curvature. I really hope the group can continue to operate in a civil manner - so much these days is becoming polarized where someone who has a different opinion is vilified. This is unfortunate because I don't think anyone of us has a lock on all the knowledge - so we need to share our little pieces of the puzzle so we can all see the big picture and hopefully fly more safely. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of possums Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue At 11:15 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote: > >Given the recent very close call by one of our fellow Kolb flyers, >this issue needs to be brought to everyones attention.-snip- > >In professional aviation and the airlines, the absence of accidents >does not mean that there is not a large danger. Reports of >problems, and many near accidents is regarded as an accident waiting >to happen, and these problems are fixed before people get >killed. We have a pattern like this developing with our Kolb Tail wires. I would defer to Dennis as the ultimate authority on any of the changes the we "think" might improve the original structural design. If you change/strengthen one thing - you weaken another. You just move the problem to another area. I only know of one person who was willing to tear the wings off of a Kolb in flight - on purpose (not with sandbags on the ground) and trust a chute to carry him down. This was done to find the weak link in the design. The "weak link" was fixed years ago and by weak - I mean more G's than you might ever do.. Most of the stuff I have done is cosmetic or just for looks/comfort. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: spreadsheet From: dsmald@aol.com Robert, Great idea doing the spreadsheet on Kolb pilot ages. Would it be possible to do one with engine / gearbox / AC type / fuel burn / performance / hours on our Kolbs? Darren, Central MI, age 49, FS1, 325 hours, Hirth 2702 (40hp) 2.29:1 gear ratio, 64" warp drive @09 degrees, 2.3 gal/ hour average, 55mph cruise. Time: 06:14:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers From: Robert Laird You know, if you guys want to do polls, at least use some of the free technology around! I've set this up -- took me about 3 minutes... MUCH easier to see what the poll is about, it self-organizes, and self-reports. http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dGM3U3VrV0pRMzlWYU1lSzdaYkJPQUE6MA.. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Thom Riddle wrote: > > Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful > information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long time, > I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers coming > along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't mind, > please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll compile and > post the results. > > I am only 61 so I hope to have lots more flying years ahead of me. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:56 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers From: "geoffthis" I turn 53 today, Sept 4. Geoff Thistlethwaite Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261388#261388 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:42 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers I`m 58. Started flying in 1983. Lanny FSII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail wheel support and brace From: zeprep251@aol.com Larry, ? I also had this failure.First the aluminum tube at the end of the steel tail post.Noticed the frayed fabric first during preflight because I fold and unfold every flight.So I replaced the tube (.032) with (.054) I think.But I continued to use differential braking to swing the FS around in front of the trailer,which puts a lot of side load on the tail post structure.Then the lower short tube from the tailpost? failed at the ring.You know what that entails.I thought all of this was self induced by the way I was turning and loading the tailpost,so I spent the money and put a full swiveling tail wheel assy.on it.I never heard about the braces until John mentioned them one day.Then I saw the light.You can make the braces out of fairly light stuff because they are both in tension.The only other mod I made was the clamp on the tail spring at the steel tube to keep the rod from twisting against the bolt and letting the wheel flop over center.Also prevents fish mouthing of the steel tube so it does'nt get loose enough to rattle. G.Aman MK-3C 475 hrs with Johns braces -----Original Message----- From: Larry Cottrell Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:56 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Tail wheel support and brace Some time ago John H suggested a fix for the tail wheel post and brace. It involved a brace from the tail wheel bolt to the collar on the tail boom. I should of paid more attention. ? On the morning of Sept first, I was intending to go check the neighbors cows in the Pot Hole field to make sure none of them were bogged in any of the sink holes. Saves them some trouble and time and gives me an excuse to go fly. ? As I was doing my preflight I noticed that the tail wheel assembly was wobbling. Sure enough the aluminum tube at the end of the steel collar was broken and the tail post was broken where it was connected to the collar on the tube. ? I have 500.6 hours on the plane and most of it was on dirt, not grass, Dirt! Here it is soft and the worst side loads on the tail wheel are right in front of the hanger. ? I now have it repaired, and this time I applied the side braces that John recommended. If you have not already done so, I would suggest that you make it a priority, because it is a pain to repair, but really easy to prevent. ? I sleeved the tube and welded the tail post. Of course the problem is the fabric repair. ? These two little braces are easy to make and install, the repair is a pain in the butt. Larry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers From: Richard Girard Happy Birthday Geoff! Rick Girard do not archive On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:32 AM, geoffthis wrote: > > I turn 53 today, Sept 4. > > Geoff Thistlethwaite > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261388#261388 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:07 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail wheel support and brace Larry, is that aluminum or steel tube? BB On 3, Sep 2009, at 11:56 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > Some time ago John H suggested a fix for the tail wheel post and > brace. It involved a brace from the tail wheel bolt to the collar > on the tail boom. I should of paid more attention. > > On the morning of Sept first, I was intending to go check the > neighbors cows in the Pot Hole field to make sure none of them were > bogged in any of the sink holes. Saves them some trouble and time > and gives me an excuse to go fly. > > As I was doing my preflight I noticed that the tail wheel assembly > was wobbling. Sure enough the aluminum tube at the end of the steel > collar was broken and the tail post was broken where it was > connected to the collar on the tube. > > I have 500.6 hours on the plane and most of it was on dirt, not > grass, Dirt! Here it is soft and the worst side loads on the tail > wheel are right in front of the hanger. > > I now have it repaired, and this time I applied the side braces > that John recommended. If you have not already done so, I would > suggest that you make it a priority, because it is a pain to > repair, but really easy to prevent. > <3686A0B5207B43C6958AC4FC4B7907FE> > > I sleeved the tube and welded the tail post. Of course the problem > is the fabric repair. > <77B6A3E065AA4FA49A345BFFEA492AB3> > > These two little braces are easy to make and install, the repair is > a pain in the butt. > Larry ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: spreadsheet From: Robert Laird That's easily done! But, as they say, you can lead a horse to water.... I'll try to have something available by the end of the day. -- Robert On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:27 AM, wrote: > > > Robert, > > Great idea doing the spreadsheet on Kolb pilot ages. Would it be possible to do one with engine / gearbox / AC type / fuel burn / performance / hours on our Kolbs? > > > Darren, Central MI, age 49, FS1, 325 hours, Hirth 2702 (40hp) 2.29:1 gear ratio, 64" warp drive @09 degrees, 2.3 gal/ hour average, 55mph cruise. > > > Time: 06:14:47 AM PST US > > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers > > From: Robert Laird > > > You know, if you guys want to do polls, at least use some of the free > > technology around! > > I've set this up -- took me about 3 minutes... MUCH easier to see what the > > poll is about, it self-organizes, and self-reports. > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dGM3U3VrV0pRMzlWYU1lSzdaYkJPQUE6MA.. > > > > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Thom Riddle wrote: > > > > > > > Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful > > > information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long time, > > > I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers coming > > > along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't mind, > > > please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll compile and > > > post the results. > > > > > > I am only 61 so I hope to have lots more flying years ahead of me. > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:06 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail wheel support and brace ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bean To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 7:12 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail wheel support and brace Larry, is that aluminum or steel tube? BB The tubing is 3/8th aluminum that I had left over from an earlier project. Larry C ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:08 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Kolb-List: flying After recent talk about human-powered flight -- Sikorsky has offered a $250K prize to anyone who can fly a human-powered helicopter to 10' altitude and keep it there, or above, for 60 seconds. Since humans I believe can generate less than 1/2HP I think their money is safe. World's record so far is about 0.2 meters for 19 seconds. Russ K do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:35 AM PST US From: "Lloyd McFarlane" Subject: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Lloyd McFarlane 75 FireStar II N6122L ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Old Kolbers From: John Brooks 61 I've been flying my FirestarII since I completed it in 1995. My ship was just certified Amature Built Experimental and I'm about to fly-off 40 test hours in a plane I have already logged 470 hr in. Life is good! John ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:03 AM PST US From: "Terry Davis" Subject: Kolb-List: Old Pilots Terry Davis 62 Private Pilot since 1993 Kolb Pilot since 2005 Sumpter Valley, Eastern Oregon FS 1, 503DCDI Powerfin, BRS ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail wheel support and brace From: "JetPilot" Larry That is an excellent and easy mod to do. I was going to weld the braces on mine, but given what I see in your pictures, your mod looks jut as strong and does not have any of the drawbacks of having to weld. I will make that a priority and do it soon. Given this number of reports of breakages in this place, it is something I check on EVERY preflight. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261419#261419 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:13 AM PST US From: "Jody Morgan" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers I am 70 Got my private in 1965 but have not flown for 40 years. Was lucky enough to meet and talk to Homer Kolb at Oshkosh in the 70s a 80s. Have been a great fan of the Kolb and Homer ever since and am still dreaming of flying my own Kolb. To date I have never flown in one. Last year I got a M3c project and will soon have a building ready to start work, and with the help from the folks on this list hope to make my long time desire come true before I am the oldest person on this survey. I hear others on the list, about my age, wondering how much longer they will be able to fly.... Hey! I'm finally ready to "GET STARTED". Been a lurker for many years. Also time to quit just lurking. Thanks to all on the list for your help keeping the dream going for me. Jody Morgan San Diego, Ca. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thom Riddle Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:14 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long time, I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers coming along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't mind, please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll compile and post the results. I am only 61 so I hope to have lots more flying years ahead of me. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 66x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261170#261170 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:13 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers From: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" 49 Private Pilot since 1984 Flying my Kolb since 2002 Dennis Kirby Mark-III, N93DK, "Magic Bike" in Cedar Crest, NM Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:57 AM PST US From: "JAMES BEARD" Subject: Kolb-List: old pilots 68 Jim Beard private, SEL since 1976 172 hrs total pic Kolb mklll Xtra 912uls under construction in Clarkdale, Az. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:08 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue From: "JetPilot" Dennis Rowe, I read your excellent post on the tail mod, and turnbuckles, I'm glad you added this information here. If you have any more thoughts, or warnings on my modification, let me know. I did not use turnbuckles in my tail wires, I made up an identical set of wires to what Kolb supplies with the plane. If you look at the AD, its probably a number of things causing the tangs to break, vibration, improper bending, I doubt its just overloading. I think in a static test, other parts of the tail would bend or fail before the tangs would break off, but in as seen in Jimmy Youngs picture, as in the Rans cases, these tangs are cracking and breaking over time. I did consider the additional loads imposed on my tail from an extra set of bracing wires, and I was very careful not to over tension these cables, there is just enough to keep them from vibrating in the wind but not enough to start to bend the leading edge of the horizontal stab which will happen if they are over tightened. Given the outward and rearward position of the extra set of cables, the inward load placed on my horizontal stabilizer front attachment is less than 5 pounds as measured on the ground. I keep the front attachment of the Horizontal stab greased so that it slides very easily, even under load it does not bind. One unexpected thing I solved was that I had a VERY SLIGHT buffet coming through the rudder pedals at cruise power, so slight that most people could not detect it. This was not flutter nor in any way speed related, it was more affected by power. I fly far more hours in Jets than in prop planes, so I am very sensitive to things like this. This very slight buffet went away with the new tail wires, it may have been more a result of doubling up the fabric where I made the patches, I don't know for sure, what I do know is that this buffet went away. My compression springs do have a fair amount of slack in them, this is intentional so that there is enough travel for the tailwheel to unlock at its limits without undue stress. If I tighten these up, it takes to much force to unlock the tailwheel. Ground handling might be a little crisper if they were tight, but I would eventually break something. As it is, ground handling is very much improved over the tension springs that I had on my Kolb before, so while not perfect, I am very happy with my improved ground handling from before. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261426#261426 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:16 AM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers I feel like a youngster ... does that count? 60 years young. Dennis Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long time, I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers coming along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't mind, please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll compile and post the results. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:26 AM PST US From: Clyde MacQuarrie Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers Clyde MacQuarrie- Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada. Turning 77 on Sept.27th. Hope to have our Kolb Mark 111 Classic in the air this fall. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Aging Kolbers > > Oops! I went back over the posts and apparently I missed some responses. > > Current data > > 36 responders > > 8 @ 70 up > 9 in 60s > 8 in 50s > 8 in 40s > 3 under 40 > > Mean 57.7 > Median 59 > Max 83 > Min 19 > > ~ 53% under 60 > > -------- > Thom Riddle > Buffalo, NY > Kolb Slingshot SS-021 > Jabiru 2200A #1574 > Tennessee Prop 66x34 > > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a > simple system that works. > - John Gaule > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261381#261381 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:50:00 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:16 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tail Wire Tangs Breaking And other Tail Brace Issue Continue ----- Original Message ----- From: JetPilot My compression springs do have a fair amount of slack in them, this is intentional so that there is enough travel for the tailwheel to unlock at its limits without undue stress. If I tighten these up, it takes to much force to unlock the tailwheel. Ground handling might be a little crisper if they were tight, but I would eventually break something. As it is, ground handling is very much improved over the tension springs that I had on my Kolb before, so while not perfect, I am very happy with my improved ground handling from before. Mike Gang, I am on the second "Break away tail wheel" from Kolb. The first I sold in disgust to Larry Bourne because it would breakaway too soon, and on a paved runway could not get it to lock again with any kind of a cross wind. Since then I decided that I was a bit too rash and bought another. (Cheap lesson, only about $400 bucks) When I got it I took it apart and with a dremel tool hogged it out so that it takes full deflection for it to break away. It is much better this way in that I can steer even in a cross wind. I also have the springs under quite a bit of tension. It steers well this way and with the braces that I just installed I am not worried about over stressing. In fact 500 hours for the original to break leads me to believe that it will not be a problem again. I also have individual brakes to help with the steering as well. The way that it is now it takes full deflection of the rudder to break away. Larry C ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:12 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: flying The most horsepower a human can generate is running up a steep flight of stairs as fast as possible. Of course the output will improve if it's a big fat guy doing as well as a scrawny 150 lb guy would do. Not likely. Body builders would fare poorly too. To take advantage of what little ground effect you would have at 10' the rotor would have to be located as far down the total assemblage as possible. The hover would be a little unstable but it could be done. Bicycle type pedals are a poor way to get top power. You would nee a rowing machine arrangement. BB On 4, Sep 2009, at 10:28 AM, russ kinne wrote: > > After recent talk about human-powered flight -- Sikorsky has > offered a $250K prize to anyone who can fly a human-powered > helicopter to 10' altitude and keep it there, or above, for 60 > seconds. > Since humans I believe can generate less than 1/2HP I think > their money is safe. > World's record so far is about 0.2 meters for 19 seconds. > Russ K > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: breakfast flight From: zeprep251@aol.com I have to coax the boss into flying by having a meal at the end of the trip.We have an unusual restaraunt thats only 78 miles away,round trip.One of those "cold front" mornings smooth as silk. ?G.Aman ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: neat restaraunt From: zeprep251@aol.com Unusual decore. ??? G.Aman ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:11 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb gph fuel burn survey Thank you all, I wish to express my appreciation for everyone's response to the fuel burn query. We apparently have quite a spread in hourly fuel use between various Kolb planes and pilots. From Jack Hart's 1.5 gph all the way to John Hauck's 582 with 5.5 gph. Some pilots choose to cruise at 40/ 55 mph, others at 70/85 mph. One pilot claims his best fuel economy is @ 70. My l stats with my modified Firestar, 618 Rotax 72" inflight IVO prop are ,,,, 42/ 50 mph air speed -- 2 gph as per 2 hour flight time. 60/65 mph air speed -- 3.5 gph as per 2 hour flight time. Wide open 6700 rpm climb out 7.5 gph as per fuel flow gauge indication. Thanks again to everyone who responded, Gene Zimmerman On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > All Kolbers, > > I'm curious what other kolb pilots are experiencing as their gallon > per hour fuel burn? > > What is your sustained level flight absolute minimum gal, per hr? > At what engine rpm? And at what cruise speed? > > What is your over all "average" gal. per hr. engine rpm, and > cruise speed? > > Please specify the model of your plane and engine when you share > your statistics. > > Statistic from flights of 2 hours or longer will likely be more > accurate and reliable than shorter flights, but please share > whatever you personally experience with your plane. > > > Eugene Zimmerman > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:05 AM PST US From: "Beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers 68 ...although I have evidence that certain parts may be older... beauford FF-076 Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long time, I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers coming along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't mind, please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll compile and post the results. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:45 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: neat restaraunt From: "cristalclear13" zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote: > Unusual decore. > G.Aman Cool, what airport? -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261461#261461 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:06 AM PST US From: Gene Ledbetter Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Gene Ledbetter Cincinnati Firefly, 447, 450 hrs I look forward to flying my Firefly next year after I turn 80 on Jan. 6. My Fly is the plane that I made my first solo in. Still fly out of my trailer and added a Harbor Freight Jump Battery Winch to make the put away easier after it gave me a hernia last year. Life is good with a Kolb. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:08 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Winching a Kolb Hey Gene, I don`t know if winching is a word, however, I was wondering where you hook the winch cable to the airframe. I also trailer my FSII each time I fly. I hooked up a winch several years ago. I hooked the cable to the tail wheel strut and pulled the FSII up the ramps backwards. It worked, but seemed to put A LOT of stress on the tail wheel strut. After that one time using the winch I went back to pulling the airplane up using brute strength. I`m sure the day will come where I will need to go back to using the winch. Lanny N598LF ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:12 PM PST US From: GARY JINDRA Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Gary Jindra age 54-Uniontown,Oh.- just attained sport pilot certificate, building M111c-582----- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------ --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Gene Ledbetter wrote: From: Gene Ledbetter Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Gene Ledbetter Cincinnati Firefly, 447, 450 hrs I look forward to flying my Firefly next year after I turn 80 on Jan. 6. My Fly is the plane that I made my first solo in.- Still fly out of my tr ailer and added a Harbor Freight Jump Battery Winch to make the put away ea sier after it gave me a hernia last year. Life is good with a Kolb. le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:29 PM PST US From: Gene Ledbetter Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Winching a Kolb Lanny, I pull my Firefly forward into the trailer. I connect the winch cable snap into the middle of a tiedown with hook ends looped over the landing gear legs. Works great! Gene ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Winching a Kolb From: "George Alexander" donaho1(at)verizon.net wrote: > > = SNIP > I hooked the cable to the tail wheel strut and pulled the FSII up the ramps backwards. It worked, but seemed to put A LOT of stress on the tail wheel strut. After that one time using the winch I went back to pulling the airplane up using brute strength. I`m sure the day will come where I will need to go back to using the winch. Lanny N598LF Lanny: Chris Mallory, former FSII driver, used a bracket he had made. His set up is on my web site (link below) under "Trailering a Kolb". If you want to go direct to Chris' tail wheel bracket, go to: http://home.comcast.net/~kolbplanes/CM_Winch_01.htm Thumbnails below the opening picture show the details. -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261472#261472 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:14 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) From: Robert Laird With a little prompting, I came up with [drum roll, please] The Kolb Poll To End All Polls! http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDBfR083RWRGbHNvbUZFOWtFLXFTdHc6MA.. It is, of course, voluntary, and it covers many of the controversial topics as well as just "the facts ma'am, just the facts." As soon as I get 20-30 responses, I will publish the results either here on on a web page, to which I will post a link. Please be assured that it will be completely anonymous if you want it to be. There are options on it that will tell me that you do/don't want your name used, and you do/don't want your N-number used. My motivation for doing this is strictly curiosity... but please don't kill this cat. I hope I didn't miss anything of significant importance. But I think the results will be a real eye opener, AND it will help a lot of us see what's out there, and what people are using. I do hope that everyone will pitch in and truly make this the TKPTEAP that it should be! :-) -- Robert ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:59 PM PST US From: HShack@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: How old? Howard Shackleford 68 yrs. Flying 10 yrs ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:33 PM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Winching a Kolb Gene and George thanks for the info. I will store that information in the hard drive in my brain for future reference. Also, while the tail wheel bracket is very nicely done, I still feel it will pull rather hard on the strut. It`s not exactly the strut I`m worried about, it`s the tubing the strut slides into that seems to take a lot of stress when using the winch. Perhaps the structure is strong enough to take the stress of a thousand winch assisted loadings. I just always try to treat my FSII as gently as I can, on the ground and in the air. Lanny ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:02 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Kolb-List: Tail shaking Hi All, I was talking Offlist with a few fellow Kolbers about the tail wire tension, (and the Kolblist tension), and a question was posed to me about how much tailshaking is normal, so, if you guys don`t mind, how about looking over your shoulder the next time you fly & report back on this topic please? With all the talk about the wire attach tangs lately, What We`re specifically looking for is several things.: How much , if any, is the leading edges of the horizontal & vertical stabilizers vibrating in flight? And, If they are any worse or better at any power settings & or airspeeds? For instance, does power matter? or Airspeed in a descent with no power? I will chime in too, but later. I`m posting this because there are a SEVERAL of Kolb Owner newbies that have been in touch with me & are reluctant to post to the list, because of all of the negative comments that have been thrown by a certain member of this list, & didn't want to stir up more crap. (Sad, Huh?) The owners are MK-3C & MK-3X pilots, but I`m sure we all may learn. Of course, we will all have to understand that the tail wires are as tight as the owners are comfortable flying with, or they wouldn't` fly. I know this topics was touched on earlier, `cuz an archive search yielded John H`s response, but we`d like an up to date comment. Thanks in advance Jim Kmet Cookeville, TN 912 MK-3C ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: neat restaraunt From: zeprep251@aol.com Cristal, ? 38D Salem Ohio,2years old. ? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: cristalclear13 Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:06 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: neat restaraunt zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote: > Unusual decore. > G.Aman Cool, what airport? -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261461#261461 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:34 PM PST US From: "Kolbdriver" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Dear JP Well said Rick, I have my email set up to just put the DH's email right in the trash where it belongs!! M _____ From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:49 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Dear JP Why NOT give everyone else a break? I do not read anything you post. You can call me names until you are blue in the face. I will not waste my time with you and your bile. When you were making the attempt to be civil I sometimes took a chance, no more. So, once again, why not give everyone else a break because they are the only people you offend. Rick Girard do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:20 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Malcolm Morrison Age 51 Kolb MKII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom Riddle" Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 7:14:10 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Since this forum has been such a remarkable source of mostly useful information and I'd like very much for it to continue for a very long time, I'm curious to know if there are a good number of youngster Kolbers coming along to gradually replace aging oldster Kolbers. So, if you don't mind, please respond with your age. If this gets enough response I'll compile and post the results. I am only 61 so I hope to have lots more flying years ahead of me. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 66x34 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works. - John Gaule Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261170#261170 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:08 PM PST US From: "Eddie" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) Is this poll for USA based kolbs or can us uk lurkers join the fun ? Eddie BAyliss Liverpool england (or uk if you prefer) mk111 c ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Laird To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:30 PM Subject: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) With a little prompting, I came up with [drum roll, please] The Kolb Poll To End All Polls! http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDBfR083RWRGbHNvbUZFOWt FLXFTdHc6MA.. It is, of course, voluntary, and it covers many of the controversial topics as well as just "the facts ma'am, just the facts." As soon as I get 20-30 responses, I will publish the results either here on on a web page, to which I will post a link. Please be assured that it will be completely anonymous if you want it to be. There are options on it that will tell me that you do/don't want your name used, and you do/don't want your N-number used. My motivation for doing this is strictly curiosity... but please don't kill this cat. I hope I didn't miss anything of significant importance. But I think the results will be a real eye opener, AND it will help a lot of us see what's out there, and what people are using. I do hope that everyone will pitch in and truly make this the TKPTEAP that it should be! :-) -- Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/04/09 05:51:00 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) From: Robert Laird All are welcome! On 9/4/09, Eddie wrote: > Is this poll for USA based kolbs or can us uk lurkers join the fun ? > Eddie BAyliss > Liverpool > england (or uk if you prefer) > mk111 c > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Laird > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:30 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) > > > With a little prompting, I came up with [drum roll, please] The Kolb Poll > To End All Polls! > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDBfR083RWRGbHNvbUZFOWtFLXFTdHc6MA.. > > It is, of course, voluntary, and it covers many of the controversial > topics as well as just "the facts ma'am, just the facts." > > As soon as I get 20-30 responses, I will publish the results either here > on on a web page, to which I will post a link. Please be assured that it > will be completely anonymous if you want it to be. There are options on it > that will tell me that you do/don't want your name used, and you do/don't > want your N-number used. > > My motivation for doing this is strictly curiosity... but please don't > kill this cat. > > I hope I didn't miss anything of significant importance. But I think the > results will be a real eye opener, AND it will help a lot of us see what's > out there, and what people are using. > > I do hope that everyone will pitch in and truly make this the TKPTEAP that > it should be! :-) > > -- Robert > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 09/04/09 05:51:00 > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:07 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers 71 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) From: Robert Laird I've already got 5 replies to the poll, and it's really very interesting! I encourage everyone to take the poll... it might take, oh, 10 minutes top to fill it out, and everyone will benefit! On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:30 PM, Robert Laird wrote: > With a little prompting, I came up with [drum roll, please] The Kolb Poll > To End All Polls! > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDBfR083RWRGbHNvbUZFOWtFLXFTdHc6MA.. > > I ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:44 PM PST US From: "Beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) Welcome aboard, Brother Eddie... How aged are ye...? and what Kolb are you flying, sir? beauford (he of the ancient liver) Firefly 076 Brandon, FL Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Eddie Subject: Re: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) Is this poll for USA based kolbs or can us uk lurkers join the fun ? Eddie BAyliss Liverpool england (or uk if you prefer) mk111 c ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:51 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Tail wheel support and brace Given this number of reports of breakages in this place, it is something I check on EVERY preflight. > > Mike Mike B/Gang: You gotta fly'em and put a lot of hours on them to break them. A lot of the little things I have done to my Kolbs, over the years, has been because I flew a lot (notice past tense) and wore stuff out or caused stuff to require frequent adjustment. BTW: There is nothing wrong with the Kolb design, all models. Some of us fly a lot more than others. Some of us fly in tougher conditions than others. Larry C, for one, puts lots of hours on his bird in a harsh environment. I was never an advocate of the SS multi-hole wire tangs. What I have now works great for me. I have adjusted tail wire tension once in well over 1,000 flight hours. Prior to that, I twisted cables, used washers, and made up a lot of new tail wires for my birds. I might add, cabled thimbles were never designed to be used in conjunction with a 1/16" think cable tang. Would work much better if one used a clevis pinned and safetied with the thimble inserted into the clevis. A lot more surface area for the thimble to wear against. I have worn thimbles completely through and into the cable eye before I caught it. Remember, I share with you what I do, good or bad (the mistakes I have made along the way), but I am not here to grade any List member on their performance. It is up to the individual to choose what he/she wants to do. A couple hundred hours flying and breaking Kolbs does not make anyone an expert. One must get out there and experience the airplane first. john h mkIII - Rawlings, Wyoming (7200 feet msl and still on the ground.) ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:37 PM PST US From: Dave Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers Dave Kulp... just turned 67 end of last month. Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:37 PM PST US From: HGRAFF@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Third Impressions Finally, after a couple of (2 hour) trips to the airport, the Field Repair/modifications were complete to test fly the Mark IIIc. There had been three problems, heavy left wing, absurd airspeed indications, staying below RPM redline. 1. The heavy left wing was solved with a trim tab under the right wing aileron, in size to the precise specifications of an off-line helper. (18" x 4" aluminum, bent in the middle to lift edge by 1/2"). This solution hit square on the head, completely correcting the left roll tendency to the point of being able to remove my grip while the A/C keeps trucking on with wings level. The fix corrected the left roll, likely caused by the clockwise rotation of engine. After about 3 seconds of hands free operation, I need to take over control again, because of a slight pitch down tendency with zero trim. Going to the first trim notch results in a slight nose up tendency. I stayed with the zero trim. (There is a good suggestion to fix this, but a Winter Job). To make the flag fly straight, I need to put in a bit of left rudder. Without this rudder the flag flies approximately 10 degrees off center. The rudder input did not seem to have much effect on the lateral stability, confirming the discussions about inability of keeping the Kolb level with rudder alone. 2. The absurd airspeed indications (almost one airspeed for all occasions) were solved by two steps. First relocation of the pitot/static from the top of the fairing the bottom, according to a second off-line assist from a good soul, who supplied measurements and advise. While having the unit out, I noticed that this "semi-professional" beautiful piece of stainless steel art, had the Static holes not only staggered, but facing about 45 degrees down (as when mounted above). Well, trying to drill new holes properly in the field was futile. I had to take the thing home, where, with a drill press, I promptly broke/dulled three new 1/16 drill bits. But, in the end I won properly over this dastardly piece of stainless steel. With the pitot remounted to the bottom, I took off and marveled at the fantastic airspeed of zero and flew the entire circuit this way. With markings on the tubings, I could have sworn in court the dang lines were connected correctly, but of course, they were reversed. With that corrected, the next flight showed delightful airspeeds. Our little 65 HP Hirth engine, easily shows 60 MPH in cruise, when pushed at near full power even 70 MPH. I did not do any GPS or stall tests, because of only 20% fuel in the tanks, there was this awful urge to walk the ground. 3. Staying below Redline This was to be a simple fix to reset the pitch on the prop. But after walking up to the prop and staring at the cap-bolts, that need a special 6 mm tool with 3/8 drive to utilize the torque wrench, it was a job for another day. On that other day, re-pitching went well. In two steps, Pitch was increased from 8.75 degrees to 10.50 degrees, reducing static RPM from 6,400 to 5,900. Now, climb out can be made at full power. In cruise, as usual, you must still watch RPM. Anyway, this is happy times now. General impressions: Feeling a lot more relaxed flying this butterfly, I mean Kolb. Landings are fine. I noticed what may give rise to discussion. The aircraft feels fine and comfortable up to 60 MPH, but when pushed to 70 it seems to become "squirrely". I had this feeling when pushed in cruise, as well as on descent to land when in a hurry to get down. Anybody that has owned a motorbike will know, each bike has a comfort speed limit. This came to mind when at high speed (Haha!) every little air burble was more upsetting. I slow down, and things feel "normal". Now I've seen Kolb movies, with bigger engines, showing 90 MPH with seemingly great steadiness. Perhaps all I need is more acclimation? Herb Mark IIIc, 246KT Grand total of 2.1 hrs ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:43 PM PST US From: "Jmmy Hankinson" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) Robert, would be nice to have the list by states. Jimmy Hankinson Firefly N6007L ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:05 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail shaking Jim, my tail wires have never been very tight. They are more so now than originally but not "twangy" I have never noticed any problems with vibration or rudder flutter. The cable thimbles are starting to show a little wear and will have to be checked closely before next season. I'm still a little shy about picking up too much speed in a long power off dive because of the aileron flutter I once had. (pre-balancers) and pay close attention to what's going on. Seems good now. BB MkIIIc On 4, Sep 2009, at 5:14 PM, Jim Kmet wrote: > Hi All, > I was talking Offlist with a few fellow Kolbers about the tail > wire tension, (and the Kolblist tension), and a question was posed > to me about how much tailshaking is normal, so, if you guys don`t > mind, how about looking over your shoulder the next time you fly & > report back on this topic please? > With all the talk about the wire attach tangs lately, What We`re > specifically looking for is several things.: > How much , if any, is the leading edges of the horizontal & > vertical stabilizers vibrating in flight? And, If they are any > worse or better at any power settings & or airspeeds? > For instance, does power matter? or Airspeed in a descent with no > power? I will chime in too, but later. > I`m posting this because there are a SEVERAL of Kolb Owner newbies > that have been in touch with me & are reluctant to post to the > list, because of all of the negative comments that have been thrown > by a certain member of this list, & didn't want to stir up more > crap. (Sad, Huh?) > The owners are MK-3C & MK-3X pilots, but I`m sure we all may learn. > Of course, we will all have to understand that the tail wires are > as tight as the owners are comfortable flying with, or they > wouldn't` fly. > I know this topics was touched on earlier, `cuz an archive search > yielded John H`s response, but we`d like an up to date comment. > Thanks in advance > Jim Kmet > Cookeville, TN > 912 MK-3C > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:33 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail shaking From: "planecrazzzy" I don't tighten my wires THAT much.... they're tight ... but a dull twang My tail is steady.... I know I had a bad wiggle/shimmy ( still do) But I found out it's those cheap outa round tires I got ( Chin?) I hit my brakes after take-off and it solves it.... Once these wear a little more... I'll buy better tires... I like the ones I bought for my other plane... Same wheel size , but taller ( Still 6 X 6.00 ) . Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN New Kolb Forum - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/ .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261517#261517 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:33 PM PST US From: daniel myers Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Tail shaking Jim=2C the first time I noticed mine it scared me so bad and called my frie nd Jack. He said it was normal=2C so I kept going. Is yours shaking? or swa ying? From: slyck@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tail shaking Jim=2C my tail wires have never been very tight. They are more so now tha n originally but not "twangy" I have never noticed any problems with vibration or rudder flutter. The ca ble thimbles are starting to show a little wear and will have to be checked closely before next season. I'm still a little shy about picking up too much speed in a long power off dive because of the aileron flutter I once had. (pre-balancers) and pay close attention to what's going on. Seems good no w. BB MkIIIc On 4=2C Sep 2009=2C at 5:14 PM=2C Jim Kmet wrote: Hi All=2C I was talking Offlist with a few fellow Kolbers about the tail wire tensio n=2C (and the Kolblist tension)=2C and a question was posed to me about how much tailshaking is normal=2C so=2C if you guys don`t mind=2C how about lo oking over your shoulder the next time you fly & report back on this topic please? With all the talk about the wire attach tangs lately=2C What We`re specific ally looking for is several things.: How much =2C if any=2C is the leading edges of the horizontal & vertical st abilizers vibrating in flight? And=2C If they are any worse or better at a ny power settings & or airspeeds? For instance=2C does power matter? or Airspeed in a descent with no power? I will chime in too=2C but later. I`m posting this because there are a SEVERAL of Kolb Owner newbies that hav e been in touch with me & are reluctant to post to the list=2C because of a ll of the negative comments that have been thrown by a certain member of th is list=2C & didn't want to stir up more crap. (Sad=2C Huh?) The owners are MK-3C & MK-3X pilots=2C but I`m sure we all may learn. Of course=2C we will all have to understand that the tail wires are as tigh t as the owners are comfortable flying with=2C or they wouldn't` fly. I know this topics was touched on earlier=2C `cuz an archive search yielde d John H`s response=2C but we`d like an up to date comment. Thanks in advance Jim Kmet Cookeville=2C TN 912 MK-3C href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:24 PM PST US From: HGRAFF@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: Good chance you can't help but join in! _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clw7SAJs_6w&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatreallyhapp ened%2Ecom%2Fcategory%2Fvideo&feature=player_embedded_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clw7SAJs_6w&eurl=http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/video&fea ture=player_embedded) ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:33 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail shaking From: "JetPilot" jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > > > I`m posting this because there are a SEVERAL of Kolb Owner newbies that have been in touch with me & are reluctant to post to the list, because of all of the negative comments that have been thrown by a certain member of this list, & didn't want to stir up more crap. (Sad, Huh?) > > Jim Kmet > Cookeville, TN > 912 MK-3C > > Its obvious from your comment that you just cant let your bitterness go or even respect what Matt asked of us, and end this. Here, instead of just post your question, you just had to take the opportunity to try to post a negative comment even after everything had pretty much blown over. You were so desperate to throw out some negative comments and insults that you resorted to doing it in a new thread. You are nothing hypocrite that is saying how sad it is to have crap stirred up, when you take every opportunity to stir it up yourself. I am tired of bitter and vindictive and bitter hypocrites like yourself blaming me for your bad behavior. As far as newbies on the list, I have been talking to a lot of them myself and many are afraid to post because of the likes of yourself and your little gang that try to intimidate and silence the opinions of those on this list you don't like. What is really sad is that even after Matt Dralle asked nicely, you are so bitter you have to try to start shit again in a new thread. No is one responsible for you trying to stir up shit and hard feelings on the list but yourself. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261529#261529 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tail wheel support and brace From: "JetPilot" John Hauck wrote: > > > I was never an advocate of the SS multi-hole wire tangs. > > What I have now works great for me. I have adjusted tail wire tension once > in well over 1,000 flight hours. Prior to that, I twisted cables, used > washers, and made up a lot of new tail wires for my birds. > > > john h > mkIII - Rawlings, Wyoming (7200 feet msl and still on the ground.) Hi John H, You made good time going out west, did not expect you to be that far already. As far as your tail wires, I knew you did something better than most of us, but I don't remember what. I'm not a huge fan of the multi hole SS tangs especially after the AD, but am at a loss of what else to use. I bought some Stainless Steel single hole tangs from Aircraft Spruce, but they were extremely thin, and I could bend them with my fingers, they felt much weaker than my Multi hole tangs, so I did not use them. What type of tangs did you use on your MK III, and were can we get them ? I would be as happy as could be to get 1000 hours out of my next set, did you use Stainless Steel Cables also ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261532#261532 ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:12 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Good chance you can't help but join in! that guy is in for an exciting lifetime. On 4, Sep 2009, at 10:33 PM, HGRAFF@aol.com wrote: > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clw7SAJs_6w&eurl=http%3A%2F% > 2Fwhatreallyhappened%2Ecom%2Fcategory%2Fvideo&feature=player_embedded > > ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: The Kolb Poll To End All Polls (TKPTEAP) From: Robert Laird If people put in their city, state, then that's very doable! On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Jmmy Hankinson wrote: > *Robert, would be nice to have the list by states.* > > * * > > *Jimmy Hankinson* > > *Firefly N6007L* > > * > do not archive > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.