Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:37 AM - Re: rookie video (pj.ladd)
2. 02:40 AM - Re: Microbes in the fuel (pj.ladd)
3. 02:52 AM - Re: Re: Tail shaking (pj.ladd)
4. 03:34 AM - Re: rookie video (Jimmy Young)
5. 05:53 AM - Re: Microbes in the fuel (russ kinne)
6. 06:48 AM - Re: Tail shaking (Richard Pike)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: Tail shaking (Ralph B)
8. 07:31 AM - Re: Microbes in the fuel (Beauford T)
9. 07:43 AM - Re: Weight limit - Kolb Twinstar MKII (cristalclear13)
10. 07:47 AM - Re: Weight limit - Kolb Twinstar MKII (cristalclear13)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Weight limit - Kolb Twinstar MKII (Richard Girard)
12. 08:55 AM - Vortex Generators (r3000@warwick.net)
13. 09:55 AM - Re: wing attach vector (Jack B. Hart)
14. 10:17 AM - Re: wing attach vector (Richard Girard)
15. 11:42 AM - Re: wing attach vector (robert bean)
16. 11:54 AM - Why a Kolb? (beberle)
17. 11:54 AM - Re: Microbes in the fuel (possums)
18. 12:40 PM - Re: Why a Kolb? (Richard Girard)
19. 02:43 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Pike)
20. 03:14 PM - Re: wing attach vector (Jack B. Hart)
21. 03:41 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Dana Hague)
22. 03:41 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Dana Hague)
23. 03:42 PM - Re: wing attach vector (robert bean)
24. 03:45 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (beauford)
25. 03:51 PM - Re: Microbes in the fuel (Dana Hague)
26. 04:12 PM - Re: soldering tail wires (Dana Hague)
27. 04:13 PM - Re: Tail shaking (Dana Hague)
28. 05:13 PM - Re: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
29. 05:27 PM - Re: Sealing a Westach fuel gauge sender to a plastic tank (R Harris)
30. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (robert bean)
31. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Larry Cottrell)
32. 05:51 PM - Re: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question (Larry Cottrell)
33. 06:18 PM - Re: Why a Kolb? (gliderx5@comcast.net)
34. 06:18 PM - Re: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question (Herb)
35. 07:02 PM - Re: Why a Kolb? (ces308)
36. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Larry Cottrell)
37. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Beauford T)
38. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Girard)
39. 08:19 PM - Re: Aging Kolbers (Jody Morgan)
40. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators ()
41. 09:41 PM - Re: Why a Kolb? (dalewhelan)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: rookie video |
Texas coastline between Freeport and Matagorda >>
Hi Jimmy,
thanks for the pics. really enjoyable.
About 50 years ago I was staying in Houston with a Rotary Exchange team and
knowing that I was interested in flying I was billeted on a flyer.
This guy had a house about as big my home town and a pile of money it would
take you a week to walk round.
He turned up for breakfast in a denim shirt ,blue jeans (which I don`t think
we had in the UK at that time) complete with belt a big silver buckle with
the head of a longhorn on it, and a pair of patterned cowboy boots.
Y` wanna fly? "he said. We clambered into a Ford F100 with a couple of guns
in a rack between the seats. There were holes to put our Coors in on the
dashboard. Guns and beer in a moving vehicle,! In fact drinking while we
drove!. This was a new world for this wet behind the ears Brit fresh from a
country where almost nobody had a gun, and nobody drank in a vehicle, let
alone have a holder for the beer fitted as standard..
We drove to a `cow pasture` a couple of miles away (still on his ranch) at
the end of which was a beaten up old corrugated iron shed. The guy took a
key from his pocket, unlocked the shed and we dragged out a fairly scruffy
Cessna.
Preflight? Forget it. We dipped the oil, climbed in and turned the starter,
taxied up the field a took off." I`ve got some cattle on some islands offf
the coast" he said. We flew down the Inter coastal to Matagordo and he found
his islands and went down to nought feet to inspect his cattle. He stood
this plane on its wingtip nearly at sea level while he looked over his herd.
I have never seen anyone do so many damn stupid things in my life. This guy
flew with the same sort of belief in his ability that a sixteen year old kid
has on his bike. The plane was just an extension of his senses. If he wanted
to fly THERE, thats where the plane went. After my first sheer terror I just
resigned my self to be being killed in the near future and enjoyed it
After inspecting the cattle we got a bit of height and flew along the coast
looking at an oil rig being towed along the Intercoastal .. We inspected the
scene of an accident where a tug had lost its string of barges. They were
stuck on sandbanks and up the beach for a couple of miles.
Something else I had never seen was a train of barges being pushed. We pull
them in Europe. A great flight.
Thanks for reminding me.
Cheers
Pat
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Subject: | Re: Microbes in the fuel |
Hi john,
I'll take a dozen of those items. My fuel is long past due for some
serious straightening.>>
Hi John,
I must say that I did wonder why this problem had not cropped up and
been traced to its source before this.
No reason to doubt the story. though. It was reported as pukka gen, not
an advert.
Pat
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Tail shaking |
West Yellowstone, Montana - Forecasting 29F tonight with rain and snow. >>
Hi John,
Dont envy you the weather but I certainly do the country. Up there about 5
years ago. Superb
Cheers
Pat
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Subject: | Re: rookie video |
Richard Pike asked:
> it appears that your windscreen is lightly tinted. If so, where did you get the
tinted Lexan?
Richard,
Yes, it is tinted light grey. I got it at A & C Plastics in Houston http://www.acplasticsinc.com/ ,but it's brand name is "Makrolon". They had both 1/16" & 1/8" thickness available when I bought it last fall.
--------
Jimmy Young
FS II, HKS 700
N7043P
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262019#262019
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Microbes in the fuel |
Pat
We used to add "PRIST" to avgas; a bactericide that reportedly killed
the bacteria living on the fuel-water interface.
Can't prove it worked, but no troubles and it made us feel better,
esp in remote areas.
On the big marine diesels; 600HP and up -- in the tropics algae can
grow into big enough clumps to plug up the humungous fuel filters,
6-7" across. If not run every day or two we added "BIOBOR", a
powerful algicide
Russ
PS On this side of the pond, if you're not making a profit (or
trying to) on pirated copyrighted works, no one seems to care.
I think you're safe.
On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:54 PM, pj.ladd wrote:
> There has been much said about filters lately.
> This may be a new slant. I have paraphrased it from an article in
> the current `Microlight magazine.
> After many months investigating sudden loss of pwer in their 503
> during which everything, fuel lines, pump,ignition etc., was
> changed,cleaned, and so on it was found that the filter was being
> blocked by microbial contamination which grew into `colonies`..
> This was intoduced into the fuel supply through water in the
> premix oil. Oil is hygroscopic(attracts water) the oil was being
> drawn from a 20 litre drum as needed. Once opened the oil in the
> drum attracted water and the bacteria attached themselves to the
> wall of the fuel tank.The bacteria grew on the fuel filter mesh
> because that was where daylight shone through the glass.
> For those with 4 strokes. Biofuel is now added to petrol and this
> contains ethanol which is highly hygroscopic so the same thing may
> be expected to happen.
> The problem was cured by introducing a magnetic field into the fuel
> line. This appaerently disrupts the cellular structure of the
> microbes and prevents them growing big enough clusters to block the
> filter.
> Try www.purefueltechnologies.com
>
> Hope I don`t get `done` for copyright infringement.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Tail shaking |
ces308 wrote:
> Hello all....I took another video out the back with the doors and windows off
and this is what I got. The video is not the best ,but it doesn't seem that
bad...looks worse on the ground that in the air...
> Anyway...for what it's worth....
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU-Hr6HigcQ
>
>
> chris ambrose
> M3X/Jab 60+hrs
> N327CS
Based on your video, the tail is going to get way more abuse on the ground taxiing
than in the air. I am adding a "Hauck tailwheel brace" to mine and not worrying
about it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262040#262040
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Subject: | Re: Tail shaking |
The problem with loose tail wires is the the stainless thimbles will wear a "notch"
into it over time. This happened on my Original Firestar with the wingnut
used to tighten it at the bottom of the rudder post. After replacing with new
wires, I decided to use a lock nut and wrench to get it tighter. The old wires
shook while flying as I could see them well. After tightening with the new ones,
the tail still shakes, but not as much. The kit used a wingnut because Homer
wanted to keep the setup simple without the use of tools. The wingnut just
didn't get it tight enough.
The Kolbra uses turnbuckles to tighten and they are reasonably tight with no tail
shake with the 6" fuse tube (Firestar uses a 5" fuse tube).
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
960 hours
22 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
1 year flying it
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262046#262046
Attachments:
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Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Microbes in the fuel |
Brothers Pat and John:
Being a slow-learner, am still pondering whether the evidence warrants
bolting magnets onto our fuel lines just yet.... or, of more immediate
consequence, whether it would be worth lining my Adidas with
refrigerator magnets to handle the athlete's foot mess...
There is sure a lot of skepticism in the literature and across the
internet about the claims that magnets can kill algae by affecting
cellular reproduction... especially when the "target" cells are
exposed to the field for only a second or two as they pass through the
little magnet unit on the fuel line. Anecdotal evidence can be
dangerous.
As one astute observer pointed out, if magnetism really does disrupt
organic cellular function and reproduction, consider then what effect
prolonged exposure to super high magnetic fields should be capable of
doing to cells -- There would have to be sick and dying freshly-imaged
patients littering the exits and parking lots of every MRI facility in
the world, and the facilities themselves would be bacterially sterile
throughout...
...just a thought...
non-ferrous beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: pj.ladd
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Microbes in the fuel
Hi john,
I'll take a dozen of those items. My fuel is long past due for some
serious straightening.>>
Hi John,
I must say that I did wonder why this problem had not cropped up and
been traced to its source before this.
No reason to doubt the story. though. It was reported as pukka gen,
not an advert.
Pat
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Weight limit - Kolb Twinstar MKII |
dutrac wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I just purchased a Kolb MKII. I've read through the manuals and searched the
internet (including this list) for one seemingly simple spec on the aircraft.
Can someone tell me? What is the max gross weight?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Duane
Duane,
When I first purchased my Mark II I believe I got the attached document from Dennis
at Kolb.
Congratulations on your new plane. You'll love it.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262054#262054
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mark_ii_specs_482.tif
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Weight limit - Kolb Twinstar MKII |
cristalclear13 wrote:
>
> When I first purchased my Mark II I believe I got the attached document from
Dennis at Kolb.
>
Looks like the .tif file didn't work. Here is the same file as .jpg.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262055#262055
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mark_ii_specs_134.jpg
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Weight limit - Kolb Twinstar MKII |
Cristal, The tiff file came through fine here. I did the same and cropped it
a bit.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:47 AM, cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters@gmail.com
> wrote:
> cristalclearwaters@gmail.com>
>
>
> cristalclear13 wrote:
> >
> > When I first purchased my Mark II I believe I got the attached document
> from Dennis at Kolb.
> >
>
>
> Looks like the .tif file didn't work. Here is the same file as .jpg.
>
> --------
> Cristal Waters
> Kolb Mark II Twinstar
> Rotax 503 DCSI
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262055#262055
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/mark_ii_specs_134.jpg
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Vortex Generators |
The post "Summary of Kolb database" says 35% of the poll participants use
vortex generators in their machines.
Can somebody provide figures on the their aircraft weight and stall speed
before and after installing the VGs?
I am asking because I am interested in a project, (not a Kolb, sorry,)
that could be flown as a legal Part-103 ultralight if I can bring down the
stall speed.
Thanks,
Roberto Waltman
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: wing attach vector |
At 11:04 AM 9/7/09 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Here's one to ponder. .. Maybe it has been covered before and I
>missed it.
>Assuming a compass of 360 degrees with 0/360 at the top and 90
>outboard, where would the net
>force be pushing on the front attach fitting? 325?
>
>Jack Hart is our most analytical soul :)
Bob,
I took some measurements off the FireFly so that I could run the
calculations. I did not consider dihedral, and assumed the wing horizontal.
Also, I assumed the main spar carried all the weight.
I calculated two cases. The first assumes the load is evenly distributed
over the entire wing and so the load was applied mid way from the wing tip
to the hole through the main spar tab. For the second case I assumed that
the outer 20% of the wing does not support any lift due to the air spilling
off the wing tip. Therefore the spar center of lift moved inward.
The cage hole reaction vector was found to be 195 degrees for the first case
and 187 degrees for the second case. When you think about it is reasonable.
With a strut design, most of the lift force is taken up by the strut. This
means that most of the lift force flows down to the lower strut anchoring
point on the cage and this point does most of the lifting. But the spar
between the strut attachment point to the cage is in compression. In the
FireFly configuration, the strut angle measures out to be close to 45
degrees to the wing. So the spar compression is almost equal to the lift.
With most of the lift supported by the strut, there is very little up load
at the spar cage attachment point. And so the vector comes out close to 180
degrees.
I hope this makes sense.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: wing attach vector |
Jack, Forgive me but under the reference frame where 0 /360 is up (parallel
to lift) having the spar pin load at 180 (straight down) is just not obvious
to me. Are we talking differing reference frames? If not, can you explain
how the load coming in from the spar takes a hard 90 degree turn.I'm not
saying you're wrong or trying to start a Florida discussion :-), I honestly
just don't see it.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>wrote:
>
> At 11:04 AM 9/7/09 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >Here's one to ponder. .. Maybe it has been covered before and I
> >missed it.
> >Assuming a compass of 360 degrees with 0/360 at the top and 90
> >outboard, where would the net
> >force be pushing on the front attach fitting? 325?
> >
> >Jack Hart is our most analytical soul :)
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I took some measurements off the FireFly so that I could run the
> calculations. I did not consider dihedral, and assumed the wing
> horizontal.
> Also, I assumed the main spar carried all the weight.
>
> I calculated two cases. The first assumes the load is evenly distributed
> over the entire wing and so the load was applied mid way from the wing tip
> to the hole through the main spar tab. For the second case I assumed that
> the outer 20% of the wing does not support any lift due to the air spilling
> off the wing tip. Therefore the spar center of lift moved inward.
>
> The cage hole reaction vector was found to be 195 degrees for the first
> case
> and 187 degrees for the second case. When you think about it is
> reasonable.
> With a strut design, most of the lift force is taken up by the strut.
> This
> means that most of the lift force flows down to the lower strut anchoring
> point on the cage and this point does most of the lifting. But the spar
> between the strut attachment point to the cage is in compression. In the
> FireFly configuration, the strut angle measures out to be close to 45
> degrees to the wing. So the spar compression is almost equal to the lift.
> With most of the lift supported by the strut, there is very little up load
> at the spar cage attachment point. And so the vector comes out close to
> 180
> degrees.
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: wing attach vector |
Rick, Jack has been doing some inverted flight.
BB
On 8, Sep 2009, at 1:17 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Jack, Forgive me but under the reference frame where 0 /360 is up
> (parallel to lift) having the spar pin load at 180 (straight down)
> is just not obvious to me. Are we talking differing reference
> frames? If not, can you explain how the load coming in from the
> spar takes a hard 90 degree turn.
> I'm not saying you're wrong or trying to start a Florida
> discussion :-), I honestly just don't see it.
>
> Rick Girard
> do not archive
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Jack B. Hart
> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net> wrote:
> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> At 11:04 AM 9/7/09 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >Here's one to ponder. .. Maybe it has been covered before and I
> >missed it.
> >Assuming a compass of 360 degrees with 0/360 at the top and 90
> >outboard, where would the net
> >force be pushing on the front attach fitting? 325?
> >
> >Jack Hart is our most analytical soul :)
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I took some measurements off the FireFly so that I could run the
> calculations. I did not consider dihedral, and assumed the wing
> horizontal.
> Also, I assumed the main spar carried all the weight.
>
> I calculated two cases. The first assumes the load is evenly
> distributed
> over the entire wing and so the load was applied mid way from the
> wing tip
> to the hole through the main spar tab. For the second case I
> assumed that
> the outer 20% of the wing does not support any lift due to the air
> spilling
> off the wing tip. Therefore the spar center of lift moved inward.
>
> The cage hole reaction vector was found to be 195 degrees for the
> first case
> and 187 degrees for the second case. When you think about it is
> reasonable.
> With a strut design, most of the lift force is taken up by the
> strut. This
> means that most of the lift force flows down to the lower strut
> anchoring
> point on the cage and this point does most of the lifting. But the
> spar
> between the strut attachment point to the cage is in compression.
> In the
> FireFly configuration, the strut angle measures out to be close to 45
> degrees to the wing. So the spar compression is almost equal to
> the lift.
> With most of the lift supported by the strut, there is very little
> up load
> at the spar cage attachment point. And so the vector comes out
> close to 180
> degrees.
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 16
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Hello,
I'm a new PPL with a whopping 65hours under my belt. I'm looking for the cheapest
way to fly... with an engine. I'm already a hang glider pilot [Wink]
I'm looking at ELSA (do my own annuals), small engine (less fuel burn) and folding
wings to avoid hangar fees. Is the Kolb M3X for me? Looking at Jabiru2200
power. Would like to do short cross countries for the $100 hamburger or the
120miles to the hang glider LZ.
Other option is a Kitfox IV. Better gross weight, but also a larger aircraft...
harder to stow & tow?
All advice welcome! The local EAA seems to be mostly into RVs or vintage. I'm in
the Atlanta/Hartsfield 30mile umbrella, so transponder/avionics are a must,
but have seen some nice M3X setups online.
Brian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262096#262096
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Microbes in the fuel |
At 10:29 AM 9/8/2009, you wrote:
>Brothers Pat and John:
>Being a slow-learner, am still pondering whether the evidence
>warrants bolting magnets onto our fuel lines just yet.... or, of
>more immediate consequence, whether it would be worth lining my
>Adidas with refrigerator magnets to handle the athlete's foot mess...
>
>There is sure a lot of skepticism in the literature and across the internet
>
>...just a thought...
>
>non-ferrous beauford
Cynical beauford........
I've got a "Magnetic Fuel Saver" on my plane
and I've had to put an overflow valve on both tanks. On long trips
I end up with more gas than I started with.
You see Norm
With a magnetic field we can increase the internal energy of the fuel,
causing specific changes at a molecular level. Increasing the internal
energy to obtain more easier combustion. The molecules fly apart
easier, join with oxygen easier and ignite easier. 'Ionization' implies
that the fuel acquires a 'charge' and molecules of like charge repel
each other, this makes fuel dispersal more efficient. Then if you
charge the air to the opposite polarity, then the fuel and oxygen
combine far quicker than 'normal'.
It's all right there on the Internet!
http://www.tinet.cat/~sje/mag_fuel.htm
Message 18
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Brian, Coming here for advice on whether to get a Kolb aircraft is a bit
like going to the local Baptist church and asking if you should look into
Jesus. :-).All I'm going to say is I like mine. The view isn't quite as good
as it is from my Sensor 510 (probably before your time), but it's better
than anything else I've flown except my trike.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 1:54 PM, beberle <beberle1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'm a new PPL with a whopping 65hours under my belt. I'm looking for the
> cheapest way to fly... with an engine. I'm already a hang glider pilot
> [Wink]
> I'm looking at ELSA (do my own annuals), small engine (less fuel burn) and
> folding wings to avoid hangar fees. Is the Kolb M3X for me? Looking at
> Jabiru2200 power. Would like to do short cross countries for the $100
> hamburger or the 120miles to the hang glider LZ.
> Other option is a Kitfox IV. Better gross weight, but also a larger
> aircraft... harder to stow & tow?
>
> All advice welcome! The local EAA seems to be mostly into RVs or vintage.
> I'm in the Atlanta/Hartsfield 30mile umbrella, so transponder/avionics are a
> must, but have seen some nice M3X setups online.
>
> Brian
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262096#262096
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
rwaltman wrote:
> The post "Summary of Kolb database" says 35% of the poll participants use vortex
generators in their machines.
>
> Can somebody provide figures on the their aircraft weight and stall speed
> before and after installing the VGs?
>
> I am asking because I am interested in a project, (not a Kolb, sorry,)
> that could be flown as a legal Part-103 ultralight if I can bring down the
> stall speed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roberto Waltman
Here is my experience -
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Vortex%20Generators.html
http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/FSII%20Vortex%20Generators.html
Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be going
to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the FSII
as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones.
Hope this helps -
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262118#262118
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Subject: | Re: wing attach vector |
You guys got me. I calculated everything with zero to the right, and forgot to
rotate to your reference system, one would have add 90 degrees. The cage hole
reaction vector was found to be 285 degrees for the first case and 277 degrees
for the second case.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
At 11:04 AM 9/7/09 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Here's one to ponder. .. Maybe it has been covered before and I
>missed it.
>Assuming a compass of 360 degrees with 0/360 at the top and 90
>outboard, where would the net
>force be pushing on the front attach fitting? 325?
>
>Jack Hart is our most analytical soul :)
Bob,
I took some measurements off the FireFly so that I could run the
calculations. I did not consider dihedral, and assumed the wing horizontal.
Also, I assumed the main spar carried all the weight.
I calculated two cases. The first assumes the load is evenly distributed
over the entire wing and so the load was applied mid way from the wing tip
to the hole through the main spar tab. For the second case I assumed that
the outer 20% of the wing does not support any lift due to the air spilling
off the wing tip. Therefore the spar center of lift moved inward.
The cage hole reaction vector was found to be 195 degrees for the first case
and 187 degrees for the second case. When you think about it is reasonable.
With a strut design, most of the lift force is taken up by the strut. This
means that most of the lift force flows down to the lower strut anchoring
point on the cage and this point does most of the lifting. But the spar
between the strut attachment point to the cage is in compression. In the
FireFly configuration, the strut angle measures out to be close to 45
degrees to the wing. So the spar compression is almost equal to the lift.
With most of the lift supported by the strut, there is very little up load
at the spar cage attachment point. And so the vector comes out close to 180
degrees.
I hope this makes sense.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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Subject: | Re: Aging Kolbers |
At 06:41 AM 9/6/2009, pj.ladd wrote:
>...I get the same problem with Pat being construed as a girls name. But
>only once.
As do I...
-Dana
--
But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Aging Kolbers |
At 06:41 AM 9/6/2009, pj.ladd wrote:
>...I get the same problem with Pat being construed as a girls name. But
>only once.
As do I...
-Dana
--
But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: wing attach vector |
That's an agreeable (and believable) calculation. If the force at
that point was only tension the beam between could be
a skinny little tube. The square tube on the MkII has a reason. -
not sure what the FF has there.
The forward cabin area is subject to reversals of thrust, such as
during a hard landing when the engine weight and wing forces give
a downward (and outward) whack.
Thanks Jack.
BB
On 8, Sep 2009, at 7:23 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>
> You guys got me. I calculated everything with zero to the right,
> and forgot to rotate to your reference system, one would have add
> 90 degrees. The cage hole reaction vector was found to be 285
> degrees for the first case and 277 degrees for the second case.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> At 11:04 AM 9/7/09 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Here's one to ponder. .. Maybe it has been covered before and I
>> missed it.
>> Assuming a compass of 360 degrees with 0/360 at the top and 90
>> outboard, where would the net
>> force be pushing on the front attach fitting? 325?
>>
>> Jack Hart is our most analytical soul :)
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I took some measurements off the FireFly so that I could run the
> calculations. I did not consider dihedral, and assumed the wing
> horizontal.
> Also, I assumed the main spar carried all the weight.
>
> I calculated two cases. The first assumes the load is evenly
> distributed
> over the entire wing and so the load was applied mid way from the
> wing tip
> to the hole through the main spar tab. For the second case I
> assumed that
> the outer 20% of the wing does not support any lift due to the air
> spilling
> off the wing tip. Therefore the spar center of lift moved inward.
>
> The cage hole reaction vector was found to be 195 degrees for the
> first case
> and 187 degrees for the second case. When you think about it is
> reasonable.
> With a strut design, most of the lift force is taken up by the
> strut. This
> means that most of the lift force flows down to the lower strut
> anchoring
> point on the cage and this point does most of the lifting. But the
> spar
> between the strut attachment point to the cage is in compression.
> In the
> FireFly configuration, the strut angle measures out to be close to 45
> degrees to the wing. So the spar compression is almost equal to
> the lift.
> With most of the lift supported by the strut, there is very little
> up load
> at the spar cage attachment point. And so the vector comes out
> close to 180
> degrees.
>
> I hope this makes sense.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Brother Waltman:
Despite Brother Pike's reference to improvements from the VG's, still getting mixed
results and experimenting with the placement. Not totally satisfied that
these things work that well. Am currently back 11.5 inches from the leading edge,
(see photo) but thinking of reducing this to about 10 inches. Have some
more testing planned with yarn tufts to see where the boundry layer is breaking
away...
You mentioned that your machine wasn't a Kolb... What kind of airfoil are you working
with...?
beauford
FF-076
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262133#262133
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vginstalljpg_554.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Microbes in the fuel |
At 12:54 PM 9/7/2009, pj.ladd wrote:
>The problem was cured by introducing a magnetic field into the fuel line.
>This appaerently disrupts the cellular structure of the microbes and
>prevents them growing big enough clusters to block the filter.
>Try <http://www.purefueltechnologies.com>www.purefueltechnologies.com
Sounds like a new slant on the fuel line magnets that were supposed to
"break up hydrocarbon clusters" and give you an amazing increase in your
gas mileage. When the government came down on them for false advertising,
they must've found a new angle to sell those things...
-Dana
--
The most important and least understood aspect of life in America is
stupidity.
-- F.Zappa
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Subject: | Re: soldering tail wires |
At 10:05 AM 9/5/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
>
> In the latest copy of Sport Aviation Magazine, there is an article
> about securing the cable thimble with stainless steel wire, then soldered
> the wrapped wire (3 locations).
>
> This method of securing cable fittings allows for a very slender cable
> end, rather than that annoying nodule of a Nico lug. If they are
> finished off with a covering of heat shrink, they look very professional.
>
> BTW, although I haven't read the complete article, yet, it appears as
> though the author also did some stress analysis tests (destructive testing).
>
> Has anyone fabricated their cables before with this kind of
> method? Really does look nice!!
I would be very leery of using solder on structural cable. Not only is
there the uncertainty of how well the solder has flowed and bonded to the
cable, but the flux can be corrosive. Also, the solder stiffens the cable,
which can lead to fatigue cracking. Finally, there's the effect of the
heat on the heat treated cable. I'll stick to the well proven Nicopress
sleeves.
-Dana
--
The most important and least understood aspect of life in America is
stupidity.
-- F.Zappa
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Subject: | Re: Tail shaking |
At 04:56 PM 9/5/2009, Jim Kmet wrote:
>Yea, the whole rear end of the plane will shake a little too.,
I've never noticed it in the air, but the tail of my UltraStar shakes
alarmingly on the ground when I do a preflight runup.
-Dana
--
The most important and least understood aspect of life in America is
stupidity.
-- F.Zappa
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Subject: | Re: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question |
?In my Mk3CKThe radio & intercom system works great and no static at all until
I turn on the GPS then there's steady noise (static)?in the headsets that would
drive anyone nuts so I have been flying? without GPS but I would like to find
a remedy for this anyone have any ideas on what I can try to remedy this I have
tried using the GPS running on its? internal battery's and I get the same
results installed remote GPS Antenna and nothing seems to make a difference anyone
else ever have this problem? How did you Fix it
Thanks in advance if you can help me solve this problem
Ellery in Maine ??
?
?
?
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Subject: | Re: Sealing a Westach fuel gauge sender to a plastic tank |
Thanks for the heads up Rick. Just measured mine, they are both ( old & new )
the same 13.5 inches.
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262153#262153
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
bad boy.
On 8, Sep 2009, at 6:45 PM, beauford wrote:
>
> Brother Waltman:
> Despite Brother Pike's reference to improvements from the VG's,
> still getting mixed results and experimenting with the placement.
> Not totally satisfied that these things work that well. Am
> currently back 11.5 inches from the leading edge, (see photo) but
> thinking of reducing this to about 10 inches. Have some more
> testing planned with yarn tufts to see where the boundry layer is
> breaking away...
>
> You mentioned that your machine wasn't a Kolb... What kind of
> airfoil are you working with...?
>
> beauford
> FF-076
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262133#262133
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vginstalljpg_554.jpg
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Beauford,
I put my first 7 VG's on the ribs at 11 inches, and got a 5 or so
MPH reduction in stall. I decided to put 7 more of them evenly in
between the ribs at 10 inches and obtained an equal amount of stall
reduction, which lead me to believe that 10 inches would be the better
place to install them. I think if you figure the percentage that is
recommended of 10 percent comes out closer to 10 than 11 inches.
Like you say- " worth what you paid for it"
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: beauford
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators
Brother Waltman:
Despite Brother Pike's reference to improvements from the VG's, still
getting mixed results and experimenting with the placement. Not totally
satisfied that these things work that well. Am currently back 11.5
inches from the leading edge, (see photo) but thinking of reducing this
to about 10 inches. Have some more testing planned with yarn tufts to
see where the boundry layer is breaking away...
You mentioned that your machine wasn't a Kolb... What kind of airfoil
are you working with...?
beauford
FF-076
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262133#262133
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vginstalljpg_554.jpg
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09/08/09 06:48:00
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Subject: | Re: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question |
I had the same problem with my 196 on internal power, but when I take it
off it doesn't cause any problems or noise. Not usable with internal
power. Boyd suggested that it was the data wires integrated in the
cable. I drilled them out of the end that runs into the GPS, but it
didn't cure the problem. So I just run it on batteries. Not sure why you
are still getting static.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question
In my Mk3CKThe radio & intercom system works great and no static at
all until I turn on the GPS then there's steady noise (static) in the
headsets that would drive anyone nuts so I have been flying without GPS
but I would like to find a remedy for this anyone have any ideas on what
I can try to remedy this I have tried using the GPS running on its
internal battery's and I get the same results installed remote GPS
Antenna and nothing seems to make a difference anyone else ever have
this problem? How did you Fix it
Thanks in advance if you can help me solve this problem
Ellery in Maine
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09/08/09 06:48:00
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Brian
I have a 503 powered MKII. I just flew 252 miles round trip with my golf clubs
along for the ride to meet a friend for a round at Butter Valley. Lots of fun.
I'm heading for a pancake breakfast Saturday, and a camp out weekend in October.
3.6 GPH, great view, no hanger (I stow in a trailer, 15 minutes). It may not
be for everyone, but it suits my style of flying.
Malcolm Morrison
MKII
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/kolb.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "beberle" <beberle1@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 2:54:38 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Kolb-List: Why a Kolb?
Hello,
I'm a new PPL with a whopping 65hours under my belt. I'm looking for the cheapest
way to fly... with an engine. I'm already a hang glider pilot [Wink]
I'm looking at ELSA (do my own annuals), small engine (less fuel burn) and folding
wings to avoid hangar fees. Is the Kolb M3X for me? Looking at Jabiru2200
power. Would like to do short cross countries for the $100 hamburger or the 120miles
to the hang glider LZ.
Other option is a Kitfox IV. Better gross weight, but also a larger aircraft...
harder to stow & tow?
All advice welcome! The local EAA seems to be mostly into RVs or vintage. I'm in
the Atlanta/Hartsfield 30mile umbrella, so transponder/avionics are a must,
but have seen some nice M3X setups online.
Brian
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262096#262096
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Subject: | Re: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question |
The computer and digital circuits in the gps generate a wide band of
radio noise.. By law the strength of the radiation is
limited.. Separating the two devices as far as is practical might
help? Tying both units to a common ground might work? ..otherwise
make an aluminum case for as much of the gps as is practical and
ground that.. Herb
At 07:41 PM 9/8/2009, you wrote:
>I had the same problem with my 196 on internal power, but when I
>take it off it doesn't cause any problems or noise. Not usable with
>internal power. Boyd suggested that it was the data wires integrated
>in the cable. I drilled them out of the end that runs into the GPS,
>but it didn't cure the problem. So I just run it on batteries. Not
>sure why you are still getting static.
>Larry C
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:elleryweld@aol.com>Ellery Batchelder Jr
>To: <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>kolb-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HELP Radio GPS Noise Question
>
> In my Mk3CKThe radio & intercom system works great and no static
> at all until I turn on the GPS then there's steady noise (static)
> in the headsets that would drive anyone nuts so I have been
> flying without GPS but I would like to find a remedy for this
> anyone have any ideas on what I can try to remedy this I have tried
> using the GPS running on its internal battery's and I get the same
> results installed remote GPS Antenna and nothing seems to make a
> difference anyone else ever have this problem? How did you Fix it
>
>Thanks in advance if you can help me solve this problem
>
>Ellery in Maine
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>----------
>- Release Date: 09/08/09 06:48:00
>
>
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Hello Brian,
I have a M3X with a A2200 jabiru and I love the airplane...I'm getting great climb
numbers ,cruises 70-90 mph 2 people,full fuel (20 gal) .i CAN'T SAY ENOUGH
NICE THINGS ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT.The New Kolb Aircraft has a nice one for sale
with a Rotax 912 in it...you should give Travis a call and talk to him about
it ! Check this YouTube link out and give it a look !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRQHKyyloWM the next link is of my aircraft....take a look!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8SRGtxfsII
Good luck!
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 60+ hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262179#262179
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
OOOOOOOOOOOPS! snookered again.
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Cottrell
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators
Beauford,
I put my first 7 VG's on the ribs at 11 inches, and got a 5 or so
MPH reduction in stall. I decided to put 7 more of them evenly in
between the ribs at 10 inches and obtained an equal amount of stall
reduction, which lead me to believe that 10 inches would be the better
place to install them. I think if you figure the percentage that is
recommended of 10 percent comes out closer to 10 than 11 inches.
Like you say- " worth what you paid for it"
Larry C
----- Original Message -----
From: beauford
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators
<beauford173@verizon.net>
Brother Waltman:
Despite Brother Pike's reference to improvements from the VG's,
still getting mixed results and experimenting with the placement. Not
totally satisfied that these things work that well. Am currently back
11.5 inches from the leading edge, (see photo) but thinking of reducing
this to about 10 inches. Have some more testing planned with yarn tufts
to see where the boundry layer is breaking away...
You mentioned that your machine wasn't a Kolb... What kind of
airfoil are you working with...?
beauford
FF-076
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262133#262133
Attachments:
http://fp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
p; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Yes... I know... guilty as charged, Brother Bean... bad boy...
The photo is an old gag... although I'll bet someone has tried them down there...
Brother Waltman:
The Landshorter clear lexan VG's Brother Pike referred to seeing when he was
visiting are right up on top of the wing at 10% of chord exactly where the LS
people said to put them. Substantial performance improvement over the homemade
aluminum jobs, which were at 11.5 inches. I don't have the exact measurement at
hand, but the Landshorters are roughly 2.5 inches forward of where the old
aluminum ones were.
The Fly actually feels a tad floaty with the Landshorters... vice the previous
imitation of a lawn dart it wanted to execute when the power was chopped before.
The aluminum VG's helped some, and were definitely better than nothing, but the
LS
installation really changed the game. It now gives a pretty fair power-off glide
at 46 or so indicated ... before, at anything below 50 it seemed as if you would
be looking almost between your feet at where the impact crater was likely to be.
No real change in the stall personality...still a mild non-event at normal
acceleration... just a few mph slower than before. There is a real improvement
in
the landing flare in ground effect... again, more bouyant. I like 'em. To me,
anything which can extend the dead-stick glide and slow the terminal arrival speed
of an airplane powered by a single-ignition, 2-stroke Nazi engine is a worthwhile
insurance item.
'Ol bad beauford is going to now punish himself for posting the gag picture by
going to bed without any (more) supper.... although he may get himself just a
taste of cheap brandy and a Cusano 18 stogie and sit out back a while before
bed...no sense in going Draconian over this... He'll be meditating about paper
VG's...
...worth what ye paid fer it, Brother Waltman...
beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
Do Not Archive
<slyck@frontiernet.net>
bad boy.
>
>
> Not totally satisfied that these things work that well.>
>
>
> beauford
> FF-076
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262133#262133
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vginstalljpg_554.jpg
>
>
Message 38
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Okay, Beauford, that was just rude. :-) On a more serious note, has anyone
read the Wind Tunnel column in the new issue of Kitplanes?
Rick Girard
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Beauford T <beauford173@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Yes... I know... guilty as charged, Brother Bean... bad boy...
>
> The photo is an old gag... although I'll bet someone has tried them down
> there...
>
> Brother Waltman:
> The Landshorter clear lexan VG's Brother Pike referred to seeing when he
> was
> visiting are right up on top of the wing at 10% of chord exactly where the
> LS
> people said to put them. Substantial performance improvement over the
> homemade
> aluminum jobs, which were at 11.5 inches. I don't have the exact
> measurement at
> hand, but the Landshorters are roughly 2.5 inches forward of where the old
> aluminum ones were.
>
> The Fly actually feels a tad floaty with the Landshorters... vice the
> previous
> imitation of a lawn dart it wanted to execute when the power was chopped
> before.
> The aluminum VG's helped some, and were definitely better than nothing, but
> the LS
> installation really changed the game. It now gives a pretty fair power-off
> glide
> at 46 or so indicated ... before, at anything below 50 it seemed as if you
> would
> be looking almost between your feet at where the impact crater was likely
> to be.
> No real change in the stall personality...still a mild non-event at normal
> acceleration... just a few mph slower than before. There is a real
> improvement in
> the landing flare in ground effect... again, more bouyant. I like 'em. To
> me,
> anything which can extend the dead-stick glide and slow the terminal
> arrival speed
> of an airplane powered by a single-ignition, 2-stroke Nazi engine is a
> worthwhile
> insurance item.
>
> 'Ol bad beauford is going to now punish himself for posting the gag picture
> by
> going to bed without any (more) supper.... although he may get himself just
> a
> taste of cheap brandy and a Cusano 18 stogie and sit out back a while
> before
> bed...no sense in going Draconian over this... He'll be meditating about
> paper
> VG's...
>
> ...worth what ye paid fer it, Brother Waltman...
>
> beauford
> FF-076
> Brandon, FL
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> <slyck@frontiernet.net>
>
> bad boy.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Not totally satisfied that these things work that well.>
> >
> >
> > beauford
> > FF-076
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262133#262133
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attachments:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/vginstalljpg_554.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 39
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|
I am 6' 5" (or at least once was) and 240, so I have never been teased a lot
about the Jody thing. Potential teasers may not have realized that "big"
and "mean" are not synonymous.
Top this one --- my middle name is Francis. As Pat might say.... thanks for
that folks.
Still 70 and not too old to tease OR build and fly my first Kolb!!!
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Hague
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Aging Kolbers
At 06:41 AM 9/6/2009, pj.ladd wrote:
>...I get the same problem with Pat being construed as a girls name. But
>only once.
As do I...
-Dana
--
But do you trust the _government_ with semi-automatic assault rifles?
Message 40
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
My VG's are at about 11 inches back on my Mk III Classic. This location is based
on the highest tangent line when the wing is at cruise attitude (about 7 degree).
They work good, but I believe that they would produce a slower stall if
they were on the top tangent of the airfoil when the angle of attack is at stall
speed. Also, it is my opinion that I should have put them in the valleys
between the ribs and not on the ribs. At any rate, I like them and it has saved
my stock landing gear legs several times. Now that I have achieved a smooth
tail wheel first landing, I plan to do most of my landings on the main gear.
I cannot remember an airplane than I enjoyed flying more than my old Classic.
It is for sale, but not because I don't like it. Vic N4201G
Message 41
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I often fly into Mode C veil without a transponder.
Why aircraft was not certificated with an engine driven charging system.
I stay out of class B, C, and usually D.
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
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