---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/11/09: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:22 AM - Re: coolant question (clrprop) 2. 05:35 AM - Human powered flight (Watkinsdw) 3. 06:16 AM - Fw: Photos: (zeprep251@aol.com) 4. 07:09 AM - Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII (Jason Omelchuck) 5. 07:10 AM - more photos (Ralph B) 6. 07:55 AM - Re: Fw: Photos: (robert bean) 7. 02:38 PM - Re: more photos (zeprep251@AOL.COM) 8. 02:39 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (JetPilot) 9. 02:47 PM - Re: more photos (JetPilot) 10. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (zeprep251@aol.com) 11. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Jim Kmet) 12. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Girard) 13. 06:26 PM - Re: more photos (Ralph B) 14. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (zeprep251@aol.com) 15. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: more photos (Richard Girard) 16. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:55 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: coolant question From: "clrprop" Sounds reasonable enough to me. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262555#262555 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:59 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Human powered flight From: "Watkinsdw" The subject of human-powered flight came up recently. In case you haven't seen it, here's a recent article from the EAA E-hotline. Don't think I'll trade in my Mk IIIC, but it IS pretty cool. I recognize his grin from looking in the mirror after my first flight in our Kolb. Dave Watkins, MK III-C 912 ULS Pompano Beach, FL (60 yrs. young, PPL in 1982) http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,642009,00.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262562#262562 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Fwd: Photos: From: zeprep251@aol.com Late summer flights sometimes start like this up north in Ohio. ? G.Aman MK-3C -----Original Message----- From: Donald James Sent: Sat, Aug 11, 2007 9:07 pm Subject: Photos: Photos attached. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:19 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New alternate engine on my MKIII From: "Jason Omelchuck" Hello fellow Kolbers, I just wanted to give an update on my experience with the Yamaha engine on my MKIIIC. There is more information in this thread, so please reread from the beginning if you are interested. So far I have about 35 trouble free hours on it. I did reconfigure the cooling system from the video to have only 1 radiator and it still cools fine and is much simpler. It burns about 4.5gal/hour at a cruise of 7000 RPM which is about 73 MPH on my airspeed. I do not have a GPS so I cannot confirm that, but it seems about right. I have it propped to turn about 7600 RPM on climb out (8500 is rated max rpm) at that RPM I am getting about 1000ft/min climb at a gross weight of 985#. I gave up some climb to get the cruise speed up at lower RPM. At full throttle in level flight, it will push the airplane to close to 90mph. I get many complements about how it sounds with the exhaust system I installed. It has not burned any oil in that 35 hours, I have been using Amsoil but will probably change to John H's full synthetic Rotilla at the next oil change. So far, I would give this engine a two thumbs up rating. If it goes to 300 or 400 hours, I am way ahead of the price curve compared to the Rotax 2 strokes. As it always is in the alternate engine game, only time will tell how it works out. Regards Jason MKIII, Yamaha powered Portland, Oregon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262570#262570 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: more photos From: "Ralph B" Here are a few photos from last weekend's flight over northern Wisconsin in the Kolbra. Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 970 hours 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262571#262571 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ashland__118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bayfield__130.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jfk_airport_2__905.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jfk_airport_4__186.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/north_woods_2__115.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/madeline_island__208.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:36 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fwd: Photos: very nice. I won't go over ground-hugging fog unless there are LOTS of holes. -chicken BB On 11, Sep 2009, at 9:06 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote: > Late summer flights sometimes start like this up north in Ohio. > G.Aman MK-3C > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald James > To: Gary Aman > Sent: Sat, Aug 11, 2007 9:07 pm > Subject: Photos: > > Photos attached. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: more photos From: zeprep251@AOL.COM Ralph, ?A beautiful place to fly with the occasional "no landing options condition" that makes 4 stroke power reduce the pucker factor.Looks like fall is there already. ? Thanks G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Ralph B Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 10:09 am Subject: Kolb-List: more photos Here are a few photos from last weekend's flight over northern Wisconsin in the Kolbra. Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 970 hours 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262571#262571 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ashland__118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bayfield__130.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jfk_airport_2__905.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jfk_airport_4__186.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/north_woods_2__115.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/madeline_island__208.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:58 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: "JetPilot" Richard Pike wrote: > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > Hope this helps - > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, you just now figured this out ??? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: more photos From: "JetPilot" Nice pictures Ralph, that looks like a really great, well kept airport that would be fun to hang out at as well as fly from ! There to not look to be to many emergency landing areas around there until the lakes freeze over, and then everywhere would be places to land :) You ever consider putting you Kolb on Skis or floats ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262624#262624 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: zeprep251@aol.com Richard, ?That didn't take very long, did it? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: JetPilot Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:39 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard Pike wrote: > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > Hope this helps - > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, you just now figured this out ??? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:40 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators I like my MK-3 the way it is.(Keeping this Kolb related) (Smiles) Leopards don`t change spots. Do not archive Jim Kmet MK-3C ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251@aol.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard, That didn't take very long, did it? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: JetPilot To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:39 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard Pike wrote: > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > Hope this helps - > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, you just now figured this out ??? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: Richard Girard Well, not to be a contrarian, but I'm going to Agent Orange for some plastic angle tomorrow and make them per the latest Wind Tunnel column in Kitplanes. Cheap thrills. Okay, every body have your finger poised on the Delete key. :-) Rick Girard On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Jim Kmet wrote: > I like my MK-3 the way it is.(Keeping this Kolb related) (Smiles) > Leopards don`t change spots. > Do not archive > Jim Kmet MK-3C > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* zeprep251@aol.com > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, September 11, 2009 5:05 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > > Richard, > That didn't take very long, did it? > G.Aman > > -----Original Message----- > From: JetPilot > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:39 pm > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > > > > Richard Pike wrote: > > > > > > > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be > > going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the > > FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > > > > > Hope this helps - > > > Richard Pike > > > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the > > last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, > > you just now figured this out ??? > > > Mike > > > -------- > > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could > > have !!! > > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:30 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: more photos From: "Ralph B" > "Nice pictures Ralph, that looks like a really great, well kept airport that would be fun to hang out at as well as fly from ! There to not look to be to many emergency landing areas around there until the lakes freeze over, and then everywhere would be places to land :) You ever consider putting you Kolb on Skis or floats ? > > Mike Mike and others, I would never have landed at the John F Kennedy Memorial airport had I been able to land on Madeline Island. That airport was closed with big "X"s at both ends and I didn't know it. They were resurfacing the whole airport. When we landed at JFK, there were aircraft all over and some guy said they were here because they had the same idea. I wasn't feeling so bad after that. There aren't many places to land in that neck of the woods. I would never fly over the area in my 2-stroke Firestar. I was told at the Price County airport there was a pilot who went down and his body wasn't found for three years. It may have never been found if it wasn't discovered by hikers. I do have skis on the Firestar, but not on the Kolbra. I may get skis for it, however. I would never put floats on either the Firestar or the Kolbra as I don't think they are suited for them. Notice the second picture was taken before I registered the Firestar (taken Feb 06, and registered in Jul 06). Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 970 hours 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262663#262663 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/firestar_after_flight__210.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/winter_flying_2__623.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: zeprep251@aol.com Rick, Tender subject I know,but I have the Landshorter VGs on my MK-3,but never had them on the Firestar,and granted they are two different airplanes,BUT,solo the MK stalls in the 20's and the FS2 at 36 and the break is gentle in the MK when it quits.BUT they were on it when I got it.The guy I bought it from had a 2" thick file on VG's and had really investigated before he bought and installed them.I'm interested to see your results -before and after. ???????? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard Girard Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:47 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Well, not to be a contrarian, but I'm going to Agent Orange for some plastic angle tomorrow and make them per the latest Wind Tunnel column in Kitplanes. Cheap thrills.? Okay, every body have your finger poised on the Delete key. :-)? Rick Girard On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Jim Kmet wrote: I like my MK-3 the way it is.(Keeping this Kolb related) (Smiles) Leopards don`t change spots. Do not archive Jim Kmet MK-3C ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard, ?That didn't take very long, did it? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: JetPilot Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:39 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard Pike wrote: > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > Hope this helps - > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, you just now figured this out ??? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: more photos From: Richard Girard Ralph, Those skis look great. Do you have any building photos or tips? I'm guessing old water skis some angle extrusion and some carriage bolts? After the wet, cool summer we've had all the farmers around here are predicting a cold snowy winter. I'd build a set even if I only got to use them once just for the fun of it and an article for the EAA chapter newsletter. Rick Girard do not archive On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Ralph B wrote: > > > > "Nice pictures Ralph, that looks like a really great, well kept airport > that would be fun to hang out at as well as fly from ! There to not look > to be to many emergency landing areas around there until the lakes freeze > over, and then everywhere would be places to land :) You ever consider > putting you Kolb on Skis or floats ? > > > > Mike > > > Mike and others, I would never have landed at the John F Kennedy Memorial > airport had I been able to land on Madeline Island. That airport was closed > with big "X"s at both ends and I didn't know it. They were resurfacing the > whole airport. When we landed at JFK, there were aircraft all over and some > guy said they were here because they had the same idea. I wasn't feeling so > bad after that. > > There aren't many places to land in that neck of the woods. I would never > fly over the area in my 2-stroke Firestar. I was told at the Price County > airport there was a pilot who went down and his body wasn't found for three > years. It may have never been found if it wasn't discovered by hikers. > > I do have skis on the Firestar, but not on the Kolbra. I may get skis for > it, however. I would never put floats on either the Firestar or the Kolbra > as I don't think they are suited for them. > > Notice the second picture was taken before I registered the Firestar (taken > Feb 06, and registered in Jul 06). > > Ralph B > > -------- > Ralph B > Original Firestar 447 > N91493 E-AB > 970 hours > 22 years flying it > Kolbra 912UL > N20386 > 1 year flying it > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262663#262663 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/firestar_after_flight__210.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/winter_flying_2__623.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: Richard Girard Gary, I'm interested in VG in two areas, stall speed reduction and prop inflow. I will carefully document each as I go changing only one thing at a time. Right now my stall speeds are 37 clean, 35 half flaps, 32 full flaps. That's just me in the airplane at a weight of right around 800 lb. If it ever stops storming so I can fly again, I'll redo all the tests again to make sure of the numbers at that weight then load it up to full gross so I can run the tests for that and close out phase 1 testing, again, so I can go fly about. Rick Girard do not archive On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, wrote: > Rick, Tender subject I know,but I have the Landshorter VGs on my MK-3,but > never had them on the Firestar,and granted they are two different > airplanes,BUT,solo the MK stalls in the 20's and the FS2 at 36 and the break > is gentle in the MK when it quits.BUT they were on it when I got it.The guy > I bought it from had a 2" thick file on VG's and had really investigated > before he bought and installed them.I'm interested to see your results > -before and after. > G.Aman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Girard > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:47 pm > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > > Well, not to be a contrarian, but I'm going to Agent Orange for some > plastic angle tomorrow and make them per the latest Wind Tunnel column in > Kitplanes. Cheap thrills. Okay, every body have your finger poised on the > Delete key. :-) > > Rick Girard > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Jim Kmet wrote: > >> I like my MK-3 the way it is.(Keeping this Kolb related) (Smiles) >> Leopards don`t change spots. >> Do not archive >> Jim Kmet MK-3C >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* zeprep251@aol.com >> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Friday, September 11, 2009 5:05 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators >> >> Richard, >> That didn't take very long, did it? >> G.Aman >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: JetPilot >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:39 pm >> Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Richard Pike wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be >> >> >> going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the >> >> >> FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Hope this helps - >> >> >> > Richard Pike >> >> >> > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the >> >> >> last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, >> >> >> you just now figured this out ??? >> >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> >> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could >> >> >> have !!! >> >> >> >> >> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >> * >> >> * >> >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> a>http://forums.matronics.com >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > > > * > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.