---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/12/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:55 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Mike Welch) 2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Girard) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: Retreiving the FSII (planecrazzzy) 4. 05:55 AM - Re: more photos (Ralph B) 5. 07:42 AM - Re: more photos (JetPilot) 6. 05:41 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Richard Pike) 7. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Beauford T) 8. 06:08 PM - New tailwires installed (Jimmy Young) 9. 06:22 PM - Re: New tailwires installed (John Hauck) 10. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (robert bean) 11. 07:02 PM - Met new Kolb owner at Vidalia EAA Fly-In (cristalclear13) 12. 08:02 PM - Re: For Sale Old Kolb Co FireFly Nose Cone & Gear Leg (Treetopper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:44 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Rick=2C I get the impression from a previous post that you plan on making your ow n VGs. (I have to admit=2C it took me awhile to cypher the Agent Orange re ference. Home Depot=2C no doubt? Hadn't heard that one.) Will you be able to document this comparison with photos=2C etc. Knowing your attention to detail=2C I'm sure you'll create some kind of spreadshee t of your results. I think this report will be very useful. Finally=2C we may get a true "b efore and after" test. I believe this is especially important=2C because i f I'm not mistaken=2C in the past=2C you were never a big fan of VGs. To refresh everyone's memory=2C what was your past position on VGs? Was it like John H's=2C that he seemed to make no judgement on them=2C except t hat they just weren't for him? Or=2C did you take the position that the VG 's actual value was in question? In other words=2C were you a skeptic rega rding VGs making a difference to helping a Kolb's performance? Without a doubt=2C many on this list anxiously await your final results!! Mike Welch MkIII Cyrano (a little inside humor) Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com Gary=2C I'm interested in VG in two areas=2C stall speed reduction and prop inflow. I will carefully document each as I go changing only one thing at a time. Right now my stall speeds are 37 clean=2C 35 half flaps=2C 32 full flaps. That's just me in the airplane at a weight of right around 800 lb. I f it ever stops storming so I can fly again=2C I'll redo all the tests agai n to make sure of the numbers at that weight then load it up to full gross so I can run the tests for that and close out phase 1 testing=2C again=2C s o I can go fly about. Rick Girard do not archive On Fri=2C Sep 11=2C 2009 at 8:26 PM=2C wrote: Rick=2C Tender subject I know=2Cbut I have the Landshorter VGs on my MK-3 =2Cbut never had them on the Firestar=2Cand granted they are two different airplanes=2CBUT=2Csolo the MK stalls in the 20's and the FS2 at 36 and the break is gentle in the MK when it quits.BUT they were on it when I got it.T he guy I bought it from had a 2" thick file on VG's and had really investig ated before he bought and installed them.I'm interested to see your results -before and after. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard Girard Sent: Fri=2C Sep 11=2C 2009 8:47 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Well=2C not to be a contrarian=2C but I'm going to Agent Orange for some pl astic angle tomorrow and make them per the latest Wind Tunnel column in Kit planes. Cheap thrills. Okay=2C every body have your finger poised on the Delete key. :-) Rick Girard On Fri=2C Sep 11=2C 2009 at 7:18 PM=2C Jim Kmet wro te: I like my MK-3 the way it is.(Keeping this Kolb related) (Smiles) Leopards don`t change spots. Do not archive Jim Kmet MK-3C ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251@aol.com Sent: Friday=2C September 11=2C 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard=2C That didn't take very long=2C did it? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: JetPilot Sent: Fri=2C Sep 11=2C 2009 5:39 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Richard Pike wrote: > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup=2C consequently wi ll be going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild th e FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > Hope this helps - > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for t he last 3 years=2C telling peopel that they were critical in design and placem ent=2C you just now figured this out ??? Mike -------- "=3BNO FEAR"=3B - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as yo u could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra=2C 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digit al tv's. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=W LHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: Richard Girard Mike, Vortex generators are a tool to fix an aerodynamic problem, nothing more. I am no more a fan or detractor than I am of crescent wrenches. My main interest is in prop inflow because the Mk III DOES have a problem there, but I'm willing to try them on the wing because all the discussion has piqued my curiosity. Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > Rick, > > I get the impression from a previous post that you plan on making your > own VGs. (I have to admit, it took me awhile to cypher the Agent Orange > reference. Home Depot, no doubt? Hadn't heard that one.) > > Will you be able to document this comparison with photos, etc. Knowing > your attention to detail, I'm sure you'll create some kind of spreadsheet of > your results. > > I think this report will be very useful. Finally, we may get a true > "before and after" test. I believe this is especially important, because if > I'm not mistaken, in the past, you were never a big fan of VGs. > > To refresh everyone's memory, what was your past position on VGs? Was it > like John H's, that he seemed to make no judgement on them, except that they > just weren't for him? Or, did you take the position that the VG's actual > value was in question? In other words, were you a skeptic regarding VGs > making a difference to helping a Kolb's performance? > > Without a doubt, many on this list anxiously await your final results!! > > Mike Welch > MkIII Cyrano (a little inside humor) > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:09:10 -0500 > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > Gary, I'm interested in VG in two areas, stall speed reduction and prop > inflow. I will carefully document each as I go changing only one thing at a > time. Right now my stall speeds are 37 clean, 35 half flaps, 32 full flaps. > That's just me in the airplane at a weight of right around 800 lb. If it > ever stops storming so I can fly again, I'll redo all the tests again to > make sure of the numbers at that weight then load it up to full gross so I > can run the tests for that and close out phase 1 testing, again, so I can go > fly about. > Rick Girard > do not archive > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:26 PM, wrote: > > Rick, Tender subject I know,but I have the Landshorter VGs on my MK-3,but > never had them on the Firestar,and granted they are two different > airplanes,BUT,solo the MK stalls in the 20's and the FS2 at 36 and the break > is gentle in the MK when it quits.BUT they were on it when I got it.The guy > I bought it from had a 2" thick file on VG's and had really investigated > before he bought and installed them.I'm interested to see your results > -before and after. > G.Aman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Girard > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:47 pm > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > > Well, not to be a contrarian, but I'm going to Agent Orange for some > plastic angle tomorrow and make them per the latest Wind Tunnel column in > Kitplanes. Cheap thrills. Okay, every body have your finger poised on the > Delete key. :-) > > Rick Girard > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Jim Kmet wrote: > > I like my MK-3 the way it is.(Keeping this Kolb related) (Smiles) > Leopards don`t change spots. > Do not archive > Jim Kmet MK-3C > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* zeprep251@aol.com > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, September 11, 2009 5:05 PM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > > Richard, > That didn't take very long, did it? > G.Aman > > -----Original Message----- > From: JetPilot > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 5:39 pm > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators > > > > Richard Pike wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be > > > going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the > > > FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps - > > > > Richard Pike > > > > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the > > > last 3 years, telling peopel that they were critical in design and placement, > > > you just now figured this out ??? > > > Mike > > > -------- > > > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could > > > have !!! > > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262621#262621 > > > * > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > a>http://forums.matronics.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * > > * > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > ------------------------------ > Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on > digital tv's. Click here. > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:59 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Retreiving the FSII From: "planecrazzzy" .. Wow... That's Quite the Donation... .. .. Gotta Fly... .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. New Kolb Forum - No JP http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/ .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262693#262693 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: more photos From: "Ralph B" Rick here are the ski plans. I used composite water skis and didn't cut them down. The longer skis are better for deep snow. The axle hole was made for the Original Firestar at 3/4". Most Firestars now have 5/8" axles, I think. The carriage bolts should be tightened enough to bury into the ski for less drag in the snow. I also used nylon ropes, although cable can be used. Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 970 hours 22 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 1 year flying it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262694#262694 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiplans1_130.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiplans2_832.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:06 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: more photos From: "JetPilot" The firestar on Skis looks like great fun !!! All the frozen lakes and landing areas would open up a whole new world. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262698#262698 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:03 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators From: "Richard Pike" JetPilot wrote: > > Richard Pike wrote: > > > > > > Recently looked at Beauford's Firefly and his VG setup, consequently will be going to the little plastic triangular store bought VG's when we rebuild the FSII as he has found them to work better than the homemade ones. > > > > Hope this helps - > > Richard Pike > > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > I have been posting the above information about VG's here on the list for the last 3 years, telling people that they were critical in design and placement, and to just spend the 100 dollars on ones that are designed properly and will perform best, you just now figured this out ??? > > Mike Yes. I have been off the list for over a year, there's a lot I have missed. Besides, talking one on one to Beauford carries a lot of credibility with me, and based on what he said, I have changed my mind. Even old dogs sometimes learn new tricks. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262731#262731 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:53 PM PST US From: "Beauford T" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators you just now figured this out ??? > Mike Yes. I have been off the list for over a year, there's a lot I have missed. Besides, talking one on one to Beauford carries a lot of credibility with me, and based on what he said, I have changed my mind. Even old dogs sometimes learn new tricks. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) ------------------------ .....WOOF...! beauford FF-076 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:44 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: New tailwires installed From: "Jimmy Young" Kolbers, I installed all new tailwires after I found my cracked tang recently. The tangs are 12 GA single-hole stainless with a "never-kink" bushing and the cable is 3/32 stainless. I got the supplies from Air-Tech in New Orleans. The thicker tangs should hopefully never be a problem. I'm not sure what the thickness is on the 4 hole tangs, but these are about 50% thicker. I have never done any cable rigging before, and used a "split-bolt" to hold the cables after I tightened them up prior to swedging the nico-press connectors. I did have the turnbuckles on before, but now I don't. I'll have to keep an eye on them to watch for any stretching or loosening of the cables, as I'm not sure if they tend to stretch over time. We had a much needed rain out today here in the Houston area, so it was a good day to do maintenance. Also changed my break-in oil on the HKS, and may get to fly some tomorrow weather permitting. -------- Jimmy Young FS II, HKS 700 N7043P Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262735#262735 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0501_391.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0505_107.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:02 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New tailwires installed I'm not sure if they tend to stretch over time. > > Jimmy Young Jimmy Y/Gang: I have observed from my own use, the cables will get settled in initially and may loosen a bit. However, after you start compiling flight hours, the cables will loosen because of the small bearing area between the thimble and the tang. john h mkIII Rock House, Oregon ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:30 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Vortex Generators Some of us old dogs just have fleas. D'ya think if I change the sheets on the bed this year it would cut down on the little red spots I've been getting? A recent flight of some duration, that is using more than one jug, left my lungs tasting like sump vapors for a couple days. One reason is I have been drawing more power from the puny suzuki with the tweaking over time. More power, more vapors. (Egad, Myrtle has the vapors!) I figure they are migrating back up the boom tube from the tail. I tried first to block the front with semi-rigid foam. -Too unwieldy. I quit in drunken disgust. Today I stuck in some 2" thick soft, squishy stuff, cut in two with slits for the cables. Installed at the front since I figure pressure would keep them there. Gave it a test ride after. I didn't expect a 15 minute ride to confirm anything fume-wise but the foam is staying there ok. We will see. (seafoam?) Maybe VGs someday. BB On 12, Sep 2009, at 9:02 PM, Beauford T wrote: > > > you just now figured this out ??? > >> Mike > > > Yes. I have been off the list for over a year, there's a lot I have > missed. > Besides, talking one on one to Beauford carries a lot of > credibility with me, and > based on what he said, I have changed my mind. Even old dogs > sometimes learn new > tricks. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > ------------------------ > > .....WOOF...! > > beauford > FF-076 > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Met new Kolb owner at Vidalia EAA Fly-In From: "cristalclear13" My new choke seal didn't come in until this afternoon. So my friend let me ride to the Vidalia Fly-In with him in his RV-9. We made it back to Waycross before any bad weather (see pics). Even if my part had come in I wouldn't have made the trip in my Mark II because of the weather. We got to Vidalia just in time to meet a new Kolb owner, Ben Brewer from Statesboro, GA. He hadn't heard of the forum so I told him about it. He bought the Mark III Xtra from a builder up north (I think Pennsylvania?) a few months ago. It had 75 hours on when he bought it. He had a friend with him teaching him to fly it. I forget his name. Ben is on the right in the picture. They took off right after we got there. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262746#262746 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/headed_back_to_ays_338.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/looking_down_rwy18_295.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ben_brewers_mark_iii_xtra_982.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ben_brewers_mark_iii_xtra_taxiing_746.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/ben_brewers_mark_iii_xtra_flying_680.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:33 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: For Sale Old Kolb Co FireFly Nose Cone & Gear Leg From: "Treetopper" If you still have the nosecone please contact me. ulightflyer at yahoo.com Thanks, Dwight Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262749#262749 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.