Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:11 AM - Re: Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC (pj.ladd)
2. 02:23 AM - windmilling props (pj.ladd)
3. 02:54 AM - Re: Re: crash (pj.ladd)
4. 02:58 AM - Re: An Older but Good Basic GPS (no aviation data base) (pj.ladd)
5. 03:53 AM - Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC (Thom Riddle)
6. 04:35 AM - Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC (Thom Riddle)
7. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC (russ kinne)
8. 06:50 AM - HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra (robcannon)
9. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: crash (Robert Laird)
10. 07:05 AM - Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb (cristalclear13)
11. 07:22 AM - Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra (robert bean)
12. 07:41 AM - Re: Lesson learned-don't order vent line for Bing carb (william sullivan)
13. 12:58 PM - Re: Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb (cristalclear13)
14. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb (John Hauck)
15. 02:21 PM - What carb. inlet needle is best. (Carl Tosh)
16. 07:58 PM - Rice King clutches (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
I don't under stand how a stopped prop (you can consider the frontal area of
the prop to be the total source of drag) would slow
you down more than a spinning prop.>
If you practice emergency landings by closing the throttle to idle you are
in for a rude awakening when the engine really stops. You will not make the
field you expect.
been there etc.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | windmilling props |
If your conjecture was true windmills would be increasing the rate of
the earth's rotation. :-)
They are! They are! Thats why the wind hasn`t stopped blowing here for
ages.
Worried
Pat
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Kind of like a town mayor.>>
Thanks Bill,
In theory in the UK you have to have a cathedral to be a city and you
have to be a city to have a Mayor.
Smaller places have `Chairman of the Council`.
Like so much else the edges have become blurred and my local town,
where my father was Chairman of the Council about 4 times during his 25
years as a Councillor now has a Mayor. The Council is elected with a
third coming up for re election every 3 years, but the Council elect
their own Chairman.
Its all part of giving a posh title to everybody. I remember when the
roadsweeper, a title with which he seemed to be completely happy, became
a `lengthsman`. Presumably because he was responsible for a length of
road. He is something even more grandiose now.
Its all very Gilbert and Sullivan. "When everyone is somebody then no
ones anybody"
You just have a bigger name tag. A bigger patch on your arm. Just to
keep this Kolb related I saw a guy at a fly in with a pair of gold
wings and a patch with his name on with PILOT on it Good grief!
Cheers
Pat
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: An Older but Good Basic GPS (no aviation data base) |
Baggywrinkle - N. ME, usually seen on the large ladies of Walmart>>
Nice one, Richard.
Pat
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| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
...If you practice emergency landings by closing the throttle to idle you are
in for a rude awakening when the engine really stops. You will not make the field
you expect....
Pat,
Thank you. That is exactly the point I've been trying to make. That a stopped prop
creates more drag than a prop at idle power.
This has nothing at all to do with a WINDMILLING prop. A windmilling prop is one
that is being driven by the relative wind in glide with the engine inop. NOTHING
LIKE an engine at idle power.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264471#264471
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
Richard,
http://home.scarlet.be/comicstrip/Drag%20prop/Drag%20From%20Prop.htm
<http://home.scarlet.be/comicstrip/Drag%20prop/Drag%20From%20Prop.htm>Excellent
link. Thanks for posting.
I think part of the confusion or perhaps misunderstanding is with the term
windmilling. When the engine is running, the prop is not windmilling, it is
being powered by the engine. In speed reduced props(gear or belt) like most
Kolbs have, there is no windmilling with a dead engine at normal approach
glide speeds. I doubt that my direct drive Jabiru engine will windmill
either at my normal approach speed with engine stopped but don't know
because I have not yet tried it, but will during my next flight. My
contention is that a stopped prop produces more drag than a prop when the
engine is at idle power. I've said nothing about a windmilling prop which
indeed produces more drag than a stopped prop as this link demostrates.
When the engine is running the prop is not windmilling. The idle power
prop/engine speed is greater in gliding flight than on the ground because
the AOA of the blade is less as the forward speed increases as your link
shows very well. The reduced AOA is responsible for the higher rpm at idle
power vs sitting on the ground at zero forward speed. This reduced AOA of
blade at increased forward speed also explains why WOT static rpm is less
than WOT during climb. The forward speed reduces the AOA of the blade and
thus the drag of the blade allowing higher RPM.
Thom in Buffalo
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cross wind capability of the Mk IIIC |
I wholly second Rick G's comments. Every pilot should read and heed
Langewiesche's STICK AND RUDDER. It could keep him alive some day.
From the little I read of the recent crash in CT, the pilot may
have been making major adjustments while on final -- flaps on &
off, throttle, stick. Much better to get STABILIZED on final, then
make whatever minor adjustments you have to.
While aiming at 'the point that doesn't move' at your intended
touchdown point.
FWIW
Russ K
do not archive
On Sep 22, 2009, at 9:10 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Not that I would ever advocate not practicing anything a pilot
> thinks is useful in an emergency, but a far more useful skill IMHO
> is being able to instantly recognize what Langewiesche called "the
> point that does not move". If you can recognize that it won't
> matter what condition the airplane is in or the airspeed you're
> flying you'll make the field if it's possible at all.
>
> Rick Girard
> do not archive
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> If the prop at cruise power is producing positive thrust and the
> prop stopped is producing negative thrust (drag), then at some
> point between cruise rpm and zero rpm the net thrust goes from
> positive to negative. At that rpm for that airspeed, the net thrust
> is exactly zero. With the rpm above that (being driving by a
> running engine), there is some positive net thrust. With the engine
> running at any rpm below that transition point from positive to
> negative the net result is drag all the way down to and including
> zero rpm.
>
> Maybe John H's MkIII has better glide with the engine and prop
> stopped than at idle power at the same airspeed but none of my
> airplanes have done that nor does Mike Bigelow's MkIIIX, according
> to his recent report. During my next flight I will note the descent
> speeds at my normal approach airspeed with engine at idle and with
> the engine stopped. I'll be mightily surprised if the descent rate
> with the prop stopped is lower than when at idle power. But I'm
> open to being surprised. Nothing like empirical evidence to prove
> one right or wrong.
>
> In either case, I agree with John H. that it is a good idea to get
> familiar with your airplanes' glide characteristics with the engine
> actullay stopped. This is not something you want to learn when it
> is an actual emergency.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x34
>
> A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved
> from a simple system that works.
> - John Gaule
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264415#264415
>
>
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> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Message 8
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| Subject: | HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
I have an HKS on a Mark I. It does fine on this but the gross weight is exceeded
with an average weight passenger. I understand the fellow who clipped the
trees has an Mark III with an HKS and would love to hear a flying report.
Rob Cannon
Saltspring Island BC
250-537-8733
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264509#264509
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"Pilot" ? Wouldn't he be a "volumesman"
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:54 AM, pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Kind of like a town mayor.>>
>
> Thanks Bill,
> In theory in the UK you have to have a cathedral to be a city and you have
> to be a city to have a Mayor.
> Smaller places have `Chairman of the Council`.
>
> Like so much else the edges have become blurred and my local town, where my
> father was Chairman of the Council about 4 times during his 25 years as a
> Councillor now has a Mayor. The Council is elected with a third coming up
> for re election every 3 years, but the Council elect their own Chairman.
>
> Its all part of giving a posh title to everybody. I remember when the
> roadsweeper, a title with which he seemed to be completely happy, became a
> `lengthsman`. Presumably because he was responsible for a length of road. He
> is something even more grandiose now.
> Its all very Gilbert and Sullivan. "When everyone is somebody then no ones
> anybody"
> You just have a bigger name tag. A bigger patch on your arm. Just to keep
> this Kolb related I saw a guy at a fly in with a pair of gold wings and a
> patch with his name on with PILOT on it Good grief!
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb |
Aircraft Spruce sent me a little 4-5 inch tube when I ordered the vent tube for
my bing carb. I know it looked small in the picture but I thought it was just
showing a portion of it. I was expecting a much longer piece that I could put
holes in that reaches from one plug to the other (as in the picture), but apparently
you have to get some primer line and make your own. I had bought some
tubing from the local hardware store but it has gotten soft on the bottom and
I wanted to replace it with the "right stuff".
>From looking at the pictures of the carbs on the Bing site, that little tube is
what is actually used, one on each side, on those carbs. Looks like they tuck
it under the float bowl clamp (see second picture attached). Of course that's
not how we do it on our planes.
I found some history on the update on the ultralightnews website as to why we don't
do it that way:
>From http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/bingservice.html
Vent tubes
On older model carbs there were two vent tubes, one coming out each side of the
unit. The latest carbs have one vent tube connected to the two venting outlets
- with breather holes in the center section of the vent tube.
Apparently in the older style of venting system air could enter one vent line and
exit the other causing havoc with the float metering system. The new system
prevents this giving a more stable fuel supply.
This new style of vent can be made from a piece of primer line and putting two
side by side holes in the BOTTOM of the line in the center, these holes are about
30% of the diameter of the primer line. Too small and they will not allow
the carb to breath properly.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264515#264515
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/upate_venttube_166.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bing54_carburator_199.gif
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: HKS-700 on a Mark III or extra |
In the same crowd with a low powered MkIII, I don't see how a normal
landing would make
any difference. -that is excluding unstable ar ledge landings at
high altitudes.
The guy honestly admitted to temporary poor judgement. I give him
sympathy and a salute.
BB
On 23, Sep 2009, at 9:50 AM, robcannon wrote:
>
> I have an HKS on a Mark I. It does fine on this but the gross
> weight is exceeded with an average weight passenger. I understand
> the fellow who clipped the trees has an Mark III with an HKS and
> would love to hear a flying report.
> Rob Cannon
> Saltspring Island BC
> 250-537-8733
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264509#264509
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lesson learned-don't order vent line for Bing carb |
- Cristal- I suggest you get a catalog from Lockwood Aviation in Sebring,
Florida.- Telephone number is 1-800-527-6829.- There catalog has parts
breakdowns, torque specs, and all kinds of goodies.- Prices are good, se
rvice great.
-
-------------------------
------------ Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
------------ FS 447
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb |
williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote:
> Cristal- I suggest you get a catalog from Lockwood Aviation in Sebring, Florida.
Telephone number is 1-800-527-6829. There catalog has parts breakdowns,
torque specs, and all kinds of goodies. Prices are good, service great.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> Windsor Locks, Ct.
> FS 447
>
Bill,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm sure Lockwood is good to order from too. I don't
blame Aircraft Spruce. That is what they get from the manufacturer. That
is what shows in the diagrams to use, and that's what I told them I wanted (ordered
it online actually). I love ordering from Spruce. I ordered my stuff from
them at 11am Monday and got it by 3pm Tuesday. I've never had any trouble
from them. I've not had any trouble returning stuff to them either which is
probably what I'll do with these two little plastic tubes unless I find some other
use for them.
Just got a call from Bing, they let me know the actual part number I need is 861
940. I went ahead and ordered it from them. I know, some of you listers will
say just use something cheaper, but the way things have been going with me,
having to fix one thing after another on this carb, I just want to make sure
I have all the right parts.
Last night I found the carb that I replaced the clip on also had the old style
cup, so I put the new style cup on (that has room for the o-ring on the needle).
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264607#264607
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lesson Learned - don't order vent tube for bing carb |
I know, some of you listers will say just use something cheaper, but the
way things have been going with me, having to fix one thing after another on
this carb, I just want to make sure I have all the right parts.
>
> Cristal Waters
Cristal/Gang:
I have to go along with you on this one. If you have a question where a
part will be serviceable and reliable when you are flying, I'll opt for the
more expensive route to insure I am going to stay in the air.
I am spoiled because I don't have to go to work Monday mornings, but for
those like Cristal that work for a living, the little bit of free time you
have you don't want to spend it on the ground fixing stuff when you could be
up there flying.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
Message 15
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| Subject: | What carb. inlet needle is best. |
Hi Gang, I am getting ready to replace the old Ultrastar mikuni needle and seat.
What works best with the fuel pump, the plain needle or viton tip? It has the
plain now just want to see what you all think and why.
Carl
--------
mongsterone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264613#264613
Message 16
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| Subject: | Rice King clutches |
Does anyone on the forum run the Rice King (RK 400) clutch with a "C"
gearbox? I'm just interested in seeing if others have a similar experience
to mine.
Rick Girard
do not archive
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