Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - Re: There I was, FDAH (fat, dumb, and happy) (Thom Riddle)
2. 08:10 AM - Emergency landings (Richard Girard)
3. 08:49 AM - Re: Emergency landings (robert bean)
4. 08:56 AM - Re: Emergency landings (dalewhelan)
5. 10:01 AM - Re: Emergency landings (JetPilot)
6. 06:13 PM - Firestar ll kit for sale (curtis groote)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: There I was, FDAH (fat, dumb, and happy) |
Rick,
So glad to hear you handled the engine-out landing well, especially considering
you had to dodge a wrong way departing aircraft. I guess your prior prop stopped
glide practice paid off, knowing what sort of glide you could expect compared
to idle power glide.
Good report on suspected problem too.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x34
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265191#265191
Message 2
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| Subject: | Emergency landings |
Thom, et al, I have never done a stopped prop landing, ever, until
yesterday. I personally don't see the point. If the atmosphere were a
constant it would make some sense, but it's not. Anything I were to practice
on a given day would be almost completely irrelevant to another. Headwinds,
tailwinds, convective activity, and obstructions to the wind all play a part
and can change by the minute. Knowing something about the aircraft by rote
is of little use in a dynamic situation.So what can you do / what do I do?
As I said in my post yesterday, I had an instructor who drilled the concept
of FIRST FLY THE AIRCRAFT into me. No matter what else I was doing in the
cockpit right then, his voice was still in my head, "First Fly the
Aircraft".
I also know about the spot that does not move, or rather the band that does
not move. This is a very simple concept to learn, it DOES work in all
situations and conditions and it will NEVER fail you, unless you are
suddenly struck blind while in the cockpit. :-)
The concept is simple. All of you going flying today can check it out. From
any altitude you choose (higher is better for this purpose) set any descent
throttle setting you choose at any airspeed you choose. Look out in front of
you at objects on the ground. Some will appear to be moving toward you and
some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects that
appear to be stationary. That narrow band is the furthest you can reach
under the current conditions. Anything inside that band is a good bet for an
emergency landing, anything outside is impossible, UNLESS conditions change.
Change any of the variables and see how the band moves. At best glide it is
one place, at minimum sink it is in another. It will move and change, but
the concept is always constant. You cannot reach any spot on the ground that
appears to be moving away from you.
I learned this flying hang gliders before I ever knew that Langewiesche had
described it in "Stick and Rudder" a generation before. He explained it
completely and illustrated it, too. If you only get a copy for that concept,
the book has paid for itself.
As long as I'm on the podium let me ask, how many of you stop and take a few
minutes to evaluate conditions before you fly? I'm not talking about calling
1-800-WXBRIEF, I'm talking about standing on the ramp, away from buildings
and obstructions, feeling what the wind is doing right then, right there.
The briefer will give you meteorology which is useful for flying cross
country and long range outlook.
What is just as useful, IMHO, is micrometeorology, what the atmosphere is
doing here and now. With a little knowledge and practice you can begin to
visualize what is happening and why. I know every current and former soaring
pilot is nodding his head right now. We learned this as a part of our flying
because the atmosphere IS the engine for soaring. Most of you who only fly
powered aircraft have probably not.
If you are interested, I recommend Dennis Pagen's book, "Understanding the
Sky" or his earlier book, "Micrometeorology for Pilots". The former is
available from Amazon, among others, the latter may be out of print, I
didn't look that hard. Either will give you a good primer on the subject.
End of sermon. :-)
Rick Girard
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Righteous sermon Rick. The spot that does not move was part of my
PPL training in the trusty old C-150.
Works well except when headwinds or thermals interrupt the flow.
When I think back to flying regularly over the LA basin as a student.
-that spot wouldn't have done much good
over solid cityscape. I was certainly naive. Runway or freeway,
your choice.
Favorite destination was Santa Paula.
BB
do not archive
On 27, Sep 2009, at 10:47 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Thom, et al, I have never done a stopped prop landing, ever, until
> yesterday. I personally don't see the point. If the atmosphere were
> a constant it would make some sense, but it's not. Anything I were
> to practice on a given day would be almost completely irrelevant to
> another. Headwinds, tailwinds, convective activity, and
> obstructions to the wind all play a part and can change by the
> minute. Knowing something about the aircraft by rote is of little
> use in a dynamic situation.
> So what can you do / what do I do? As I said in my post yesterday,
> I had an instructor who drilled the concept of FIRST FLY THE
> AIRCRAFT into me. No matter what else I was doing in the cockpit
> right then, his voice was still in my head, "First Fly the Aircraft".
> I also know about the spot that does not move, or rather the band
> that does not move. This is a very simple concept to learn, it DOES
> work in all situations and conditions and it will NEVER fail you,
> unless you are suddenly struck blind while in the cockpit. :-)
> The concept is simple. All of you going flying today can check it
> out. From any altitude you choose (higher is better for this
> purpose) set any descent throttle setting you choose at any
> airspeed you choose. Look out in front of you at objects on the
> ground. Some will appear to be moving toward you and some will
> appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects that
> appear to be stationary. That narrow band is the furthest you can
> reach under the current conditions. Anything inside that band is a
> good bet for an emergency landing, anything outside is impossible,
> UNLESS conditions change. Change any of the variables and see how
> the band moves. At best glide it is one place, at minimum sink it
> is in another. It will move and change, but the concept is always
> constant. You cannot reach any spot on the ground that appears to
> be moving away from you.
> I learned this flying hang gliders before I ever knew that
> Langewiesche had described it in "Stick and Rudder" a generation
> before. He explained it completely and illustrated it, too. If you
> only get a copy for that concept, the book has paid for itself.
> As long as I'm on the podium let me ask, how many of you stop and
> take a few minutes to evaluate conditions before you fly? I'm not
> talking about calling 1-800-WXBRIEF, I'm talking about standing on
> the ramp, away from buildings and obstructions, feeling what the
> wind is doing right then, right there. The briefer will give you
> meteorology which is useful for flying cross country and long range
> outlook.
> What is just as useful, IMHO, is micrometeorology, what the
> atmosphere is doing here and now. With a little knowledge and
> practice you can begin to visualize what is happening and why. I
> know every current and former soaring pilot is nodding his head
> right now. We learned this as a part of our flying because the
> atmosphere IS the engine for soaring. Most of you who only fly
> powered aircraft have probably not.
> If you are interested, I recommend Dennis Pagen's book,
> "Understanding the Sky" or his earlier book, "Micrometeorology for
> Pilots". The former is available from Amazon, among others, the
> latter may be out of print, I didn't look that hard. Either will
> give you a good primer on the subject.
> End of sermon. :-)
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
I practiced dead stick landings in preparation for the day I had a real one.
That day came and I was confident, I think that made me more able to fly my plane.
I think why put yourself in that position is a valid point.
My thought is why find yourself if the unknown?
--------
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265212#265212
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Rick, nice job on the forced landing with no damage, I'm always glad to see something
like this turn out well for a fellow Kolb flyer.
There is a huge advantage to having flown my Kolb with the prop actually stopped
as opposed to minimum idle. Before I tried actually shutting down the engine
in flight, I was planning on about 500 FPM sink and much better glide. When
I actually shut down the engine in flight, I found that my sink was almost
DOUBLE of what it was at minimum idle, and that my glide would be far less than
I was used to. Knowing this before hand and having practice at this in perfect
conditions is far better than having to figure it out in a few seconds in
the middle of an emergency.
How many people could unlearn many months of practice of unrealistically long glides
in engine failure simulations, and adapt to something much worse than expected
within a few seconds during an emergency and do a good job at it ? It
can be done, but its a setup for failure. Knowing how your plane performs
when that prop suddenly stops before it is an emergency is a huge advantage.
Some Kolbs have a longer glide with the engine stopped, some like mine have a drastically
reduced glide, which is why everyone should find a way to safely test
it in their plane.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265216#265216
Message 6
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| Subject: | Firestar ll kit for sale |
I'm in various stages of the covering process of my Firestar ll and have to
o many irons in the fire so I'll sell it. -No engine. -Cost of material
s so far is $11,367. -Will take $7500 OBO. -Curt Groote -Rapid City,
SD -605-348-7170=0A=0A=0A
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