Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Re: Emergency landings (pj.ladd)
2. 05:28 AM - Re: Emergency landings (robert bean)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: Emergency landings (Richard Girard)
4. 10:43 AM - Re: gyros (grantr)
5. 11:12 AM - Re: Glide at idle power vs prop stopped (lcottrell)
6. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: Glide at idle power vs prop stopped (Larry Cottrell)
7. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: gyros (robert bean)
8. 08:52 PM - Re: Emergency landings (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
9. 08:52 PM - Re: Emergency landings (WhiskeyVictor36@AOL.COM)
10. 10:13 PM - Re: Emergency landings (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Some will appear to be moving toward you and
some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects
that
appear to be stationary. >>
Hi Richard,
anyone who has sailed will be familiar with this concept. If from your
boat you take a bearing on another boat on an intersection course and it
doesnt change YOU WILL HIT THE OTHER BOAT. Similarly if you are pointing
as high on the wind as you can go (this is disregarding marine motorists
in stink boats) and the bearing of the harbour, headland or whatever is
unchanging, that is where you will end up.
For flying all you have to do is turn the concept through 90 degrees.
Incidentally i should be flying at this moment. Lovely day. nil wind.
Planned a quiet 30 mile trundle to a neighbouring field. Trip to garage
to buy fuel. Took front off the hangar took the covers off and pushed
her out. Filled up. Did pre flight. Strapped in. Switch on compass.
Check GPS is Off. Set choke, set throttle, switches ON. B*gg*r . I had
left the Master switch ON when I flew 2 days ago and in spite of my
solar charger the battery was dead as a dodo. No spanners so I cant
take the battery out to put on charge. Drive home 3 miles away. Really
should drive back and get the battery out and on charge. Too far.
Have to lecture on flight at a school tomorrow so I will prepare for
that instead.
Best laid plans etc etc.
Cheers
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Pat, if you have access to the battery you may be able to hook jumper
cables, leave the car on fast idle for half an hour
sufficient for a light charge. -Unless, of course, the car has an
old English charging system :)
By marine motorists you may be referring to those detestables in the
twin V8 fantasy hulls wearing gold chains
and cannot afford mufflers.
BB
do not archive
On 28, Sep 2009, at 7:12 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
> Some will appear to be moving toward you and
> some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of
> objects that
> appear to be stationary. >>
>
> Hi Richard,
> anyone who has sailed will be familiar with this concept. If from
> your boat you take a bearing on another boat on an intersection
> course and it doesnt change YOU WILL HIT THE OTHER BOAT. Similarly
> if you are pointing as high on the wind as you can go (this is
> disregarding marine motorists in stink boats) and the bearing of
> the harbour, headland or whatever is unchanging, that is where you
> will end up.
>
> For flying all you have to do is turn the concept through 90 degrees.
>
> Incidentally i should be flying at this moment. Lovely day. nil
> wind. Planned a quiet 30 mile trundle to a neighbouring field. Trip
> to garage to buy fuel. Took front off the hangar took the covers
> off and pushed her out. Filled up. Did pre flight. Strapped in.
> Switch on compass. Check GPS is Off. Set choke, set throttle,
> switches ON. B*gg*r . I had left the Master switch ON when I flew 2
> days ago and in spite of my solar charger the battery was dead as a
> dodo. No spanners so I cant take the battery out to put on charge.
> Drive home 3 miles away. Really should drive back and get the
> battery out and on charge. Too far.
> Have to lecture on flight at a school tomorrow so I will prepare
> for that instead.
> Best laid plans etc etc.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Pat, Been there a couple of times with the discharged battery. When I
rewired Zulu Delta I put in two big LED's for the two positions of the
master switch that can discharge the battery and put them right under the
key switch to the starter relay. If I don't switch it off now I suppose I
could get a seat sensor at the wrecking yard and hook it to an alarm bell or
a strobe. :-)
Rick
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:12 AM, pj.ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Some will appear to be moving toward you and
> some will appear to be moving away. Between is a narrow band of objects
> that
> appear to be stationary. >>
>
> Hi Richard,
> anyone who has sailed will be familiar with this concept. If from your boat
> you take a bearing on another boat on an intersection course and it doesnt
> change YOU WILL HIT THE OTHER BOAT. Similarly if you are pointing as high on
> the wind as you can go (this is disregarding marine motorists in stink
> boats) and the bearing of the harbour, headland or whatever is unchanging,
> that is where you will end up.
>
> For flying all you have to do is turn the concept through 90 degrees.
>
> Incidentally i should be flying at this moment. Lovely day. nil
> wind. Planned a quiet 30 mile trundle to a neighbouring field. Trip to
> garage to buy fuel. Took front off the hangar took the covers off and pushed
> her out. Filled up. Did pre flight. Strapped in. Switch on compass. Check
> GPS is Off. Set choke, set throttle, switches ON. B*gg*r . I had left the
> Master switch ON when I flew 2 days ago and in spite of my solar charger the
> battery was dead as a dodo. No spanners so I cant take the battery out to
> put on charge. Drive home 3 miles away. Really should drive back and get the
> battery out and on charge. Too far.
> Have to lecture on flight at a school tomorrow so I will prepare for that
> instead.
> Best laid plans etc etc.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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> Of course your landing is always done with forward airspeed when the engine
> is at idle. If not, it loses rotor rpm quickly.
>
>
John,
A gyro does not loose rotor rpm at zero airspeed. The rotor self regulates its
rpm unlike a helicopter.
We need forward speed to add energy to the rotor to arrest the sink rate. Similar
to a fixed wing you can land right above stall speed but you don't have energy
to flair and arrest the sink rate.
A vertical landing is possible in a gyro but the sink rate is too high for a good
landing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265348#265348
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Glide at idle power vs prop stopped |
I have found this thread to be quite interesting, and most of it different from
my experiences. I had wanted to wait until I had actually done some testing to
be sure of my results before posting them.
I managed to get in a flight to the Alvord a couple of days ago, and while I was
approaching my landing spot I cut back on the throttle to idle and set up 50
mph, which is my usual landing speed. I was showing somewhere between 390 and
450 FPM descent. Apparently my direction of travel was such that it was blocking
my view of enough of the satellites that I wasn't getting a steady enough
reading that I didn't want to cut the engine to do the other check. After I got
back, John H and the wife and I were looking at pictures that we had on our
cameras. I came across a video that I did coming off the top of the Steen's a
month or so back. I had cut the engine at 8000 feet and was talking about the
amount of descent that the plane was making. At 50 MPH I was showing better than
700 FPM. I finally had to restart the engine so that I could make the desert.
I have always known that mine will extend the glide dramatically with the
engine at idle. After all, it will push the plane on asphalt with the engine at
idle, it stands to reason that it will also influence the distance that the
plane will advance through the air as well. If your prop will free wheel or spin
in the air as it does in an E Box for instance, then things may be different.
I also once did a test on the Alvord concerning distance flown at 50 MPH and 40
MPH, and with my totally unscientific methods could find no appreciable difference
in distance traveled. I suspected however that 50 mph was a bit better than
40.
Things may be different for you, but my Firestar II will not descend faster with
a stopped prop than with the engine at idle.
Larry
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265355#265355
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Glide at idle power vs prop stopped |
I guess I hit send too soon. What I intended to say is that my descent
with a stopped prop is a lot faster than with the engine at idle.
Sorry!
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: lcottrell
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:12 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Glide at idle power vs prop stopped
I have found this thread to be quite interesting, and most of it
different from my experiences. I had wanted to wait until I had actually
done some testing to be sure of my results before posting them.
I managed to get in a flight to the Alvord a couple of days ago, and
while I was approaching my landing spot I cut back on the throttle to
idle and set up 50 mph, which is my usual landing speed. I was showing
somewhere between 390 and 450 FPM descent. Apparently my direction of
travel was such that it was blocking my view of enough of the satellites
that I wasn't getting a steady enough reading that I didn't want to cut
the engine to do the other check. After I got back, John H and the wife
and I were looking at pictures that we had on our cameras. I came across
a video that I did coming off the top of the Steen's a month or so back.
I had cut the engine at 8000 feet and was talking about the amount of
descent that the plane was making. At 50 MPH I was showing better than
700 FPM. I finally had to restart the engine so that I could make the
desert. I have always known that mine will extend the glide dramatically
with the engine at idle. After all, it will push the plane on!
asphalt with the engine at idle, it stands to reason that it will
also influence the distance that the plane will advance through the air
as well. If your prop will free wheel or spin in the air as it does in
an E Box for instance, then things may be different.
I also once did a test on the Alvord concerning distance flown at 50
MPH and 40 MPH, and with my totally unscientific methods could find no
appreciable difference in distance traveled. I suspected however that 50
mph was a bit better than 40.
Things may be different for you, but my Firestar II will not descend
faster with a stopped prop than with the engine at idle.
Larry
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265355#265355
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09/28/09 05:51:00
Message 7
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When I got my checkride in a Hughes 269 my examiner announced
inflight that I had passed and asked for the stick back.
He brought it to a hover at about 2000' feet and switched off the
key. He lowered the collective and we went straight down in a vertical
descent, level with the horizon. All you could hear was the whirl of
the blades. At maybe 50' from the ground he went forward cyclic
to get some excess rotor rpm and touched it down at a gentle walk.
Les Hembel of SC Helicopters. I'm thankful to have flown with a legend.
Even the Ft Rucker ex flight instructors on the faculty looked up to
this guy even though he was only about 5' tall.
-good thing the country boy mechs he had set the stops right. They
were good too. They could put together a frame up
machine from only a dataplate and it would run much smoother than a
factory new ship.
BB
do not archive
On 28, Sep 2009, at 1:42 PM, grantr wrote:
> <grant_richardson25@yahoo.com>
>
>
>> Of course your landing is always done with forward airspeed when
>> the engine
>> is at idle. If not, it loses rotor rpm quickly.
>>
>>
>
>
> John,
>
> A gyro does not loose rotor rpm at zero airspeed. The rotor self
> regulates its rpm unlike a helicopter.
>
> We need forward speed to add energy to the rotor to arrest the sink
> rate. Similar to a fixed wing you can land right above stall speed
> but you don't have energy to flair and arrest the sink rate.
> A vertical landing is possible in a gyro but the sink rate is too
> high for a good landing.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265348#265348
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
In a message dated 9/28/2009 7:22:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pj.ladd@btinternet.com writes:
Drive home 3 miles away. Really should drive back and get the battery out
and on charge. Too far.
Pat,
3 miles too far??? Some of us here in the states drive more than 20 times
that far. I personally drive 32 miles one way every time I go flying.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
In a message dated 9/28/2009 8:28:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
slyck@frontiernet.net writes:
if you have access to the battery you may be able to hook jumper cables,
leave the car on fast idle for half an hour
sufficient for a light charge. -Unless, of course, the car has an old
English charging system :)
Old English charging system? That would be Lucas-The Prince of Darkness.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency landings |
Yeah, what a puss! :-) Perhaps traffic is much worse over there, they do
drive on the wrong side of the road, you know.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency landings
In a message dated 9/28/2009 7:22:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pj.ladd@btinternet.com writes:
Drive home 3 miles away. Really should drive back and get the
battery out and on charge. Too far.
Pat,
3 miles too far??? Some of us here in the states drive more than 20
times that far. I personally drive 32 miles one way every time I go
flying.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
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09/28/09 17:53:00
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