---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/08/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Re: Plans? (icrashrc) 2. 01:02 AM - Article with some info/history of Firestar and Homer (John Bickham) 3. 02:41 AM - Re: Re: Liability for selling your aircraft (was: Not Kolb related - (pj.ladd) 4. 04:34 AM - Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (Thom Riddle) 5. 08:53 AM - Re: Can we please drop the liability discussion (JetPilot) 6. 09:07 AM - Re: Liability for selling your aircraft (was: Not Kolb related (JetPilot) 7. 12:27 PM - law suit after selling plane? (grantr) 8. 01:10 PM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (Richard Girard) 9. 01:20 PM - Re: Not Kolb related - (russ kinne) 10. 02:30 PM - Fall is here (zeprep251@aol.com) 11. 02:51 PM - Something constructive for Kolbs (Richard Girard) 12. 03:04 PM - Re: Something constructive for Kolbs (zeprep251@aol.com) 13. 05:13 PM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (Herb) 14. 05:51 PM - Monument Valley (John Hauck) 15. 06:04 PM - Re: Monument Valley (Robert Laird) 16. 06:21 PM - Re: Monument Valley (John Hauck) 17. 07:10 PM - Re: Monument Valley (Dana Hague) 18. 08:33 PM - Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 19. 08:58 PM - Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (John Hauck) 20. 09:19 PM - Re: Something constructive for Kolbs (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Plans? From: "icrashrc" clrprop wrote: > Thanks! The 3view helps a ton. I'd still welcome any pics or drawings that might make the build easier. > Has anyone heard of someone doing this before? > > Keath T Paul and I have been flying a scale model of the Firefly for a number of years now. It has been seen by many flying @ the annual Kolb Homecoming. http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/images/IMG00044.JPG -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267071#267071 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:45 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Article with some info/history of Firestar and Homer From: "John Bickham" I was researching some articles on 4130 tube structures and welding when I came across this article. This might be interesting to those of us that weren't in the "lead dog" group of Kolb flyers. Article gives some details into Homer's life and thoughts on design. I found it interesting. Thought some might enjoy it. -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C w/ 912UL St. Francisville, LA I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267072#267072 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/firestar_debut_1985_524.pdf ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:43 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Liability for selling your aircraft (was: Not Kolb related - No matter what kind of release the buyer of an aircraft signs, the >family can still sue you. The buyer of an airplane may be able to sign >many of high rights away under the law, but he is NOT able to sign the >rights of other people away ( His family ). Those are the ones that will >sue you if something happens and the buyer is hurt or killed, even with a >rock solid Release of liability. As a well hated tennis player from your neck of the woods once said " You guys cannot be serious" or similar. If this sort of thing was enforced or even happened regularly all second hand sales would cease. Cars, boats, bikes,go carts, chain saws, freezers, power drills etc. The entire seconhand market would stop in its tracks. No garage sales no e-bay no `wanted` adverts in the paper. No one would dare sell anything. That obviously has not happened from which I conclude that the risk exists but in reality it is vanishingly small. Stories of people suing are generally wildly exaggerated . They also only happen to ` a friend of mine who knows someone who was sued`. It never happens to you or someone you know personally. I know Americans insist that lawyers are kept in the level of comfort to which they have become accustomed by sueing at the drop of a hat but this is ridiculous. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:38 AM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up Here is the poop sheet on the MZ34. http://www.compactradialengines.com/mz34.html Thom in Buffalo ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Can we please drop the liability discussion From: "JetPilot" [quote="rickofudall"]This has been covered to no effect whatsoever at least two times that I know of on this forum. If there is a lawyer lurking out there and you feel the need, please step right up and give us an expert, educated opinion. If there are no takers on this request can we please move on to what this forum is for. Thank you Rick Girard > [b] The liability of selling your Kolb or any other Experimental airplane is a very good topic and deserves to be talked about, this type of discussion is exactly what these forums are for. You are way out of line telling other members here what they can should and should not discuss. If you don't like a topic, don't read it... No one is forcing you to be in this thread. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267106#267106 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Liability for selling your aircraft (was: Not Kolb related From: "JetPilot" Pat, You are wrong about risk of being sued from the sale of an experimental airplane. You use second hand sales as an example, but remember one thing, if its an AIRPLANE changes everything. Just as we see any aviation accident covered in the news while hundreds of deaths in cars are ignored every day, jurys get emotional and aviation is treated much differently in court and are more likely to award damages than for other things such as a used car. If you are the builder of the plane, you are now considered the manufacturer and this even puts you at greater risk for many many years to come. This information came from an aviation lawyer.... If you think you know more and can give better legal advice to members of this forum on this subject than an aviation lawyer, then you must be much more experienced in this field than I gave you credit for. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267110#267110 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: law suit after selling plane? From: "grantr" All this liability and sueing talk has me worried. I will be listing my plane for sale soon as I dont need 2 aircraft. It is airworthy and I will demo for any person that wants to see it. That should be prove enough that it is safe IMO or I wouldnt fly it! But if I sell it and the buyer crashes it and get hurt or worse killed what is my best defense against getting sued? I am not the builder. If I am sued how can I protect my assets? File Bankruptcy move all my assets out of my name to my wifes name? I dont have a ton of saving but I sure would hate to lose them on legal fees and paying out on a law suit. I would represent myself due to the cost of a lawyer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267135#267135 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: law suit after selling plane? From: Richard Girard Grant, If you are truly that worried about it spend a few hundred bucks and go see a good lawyer for advice. Getting it from people who are obsessing and guessing will get you nowhere. I don't say this to be rude, just to sav e you a lot of worry and distress. Liability law is too complex to be handled on an airplane forum by amateurs. The advice you get here will be worth exactly what you pay for it. Rick Girard do not archive On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:27 PM, grantr wrote : > > All this liability and sueing talk has me worried. I will be listing my > plane for sale soon as I don=92t need 2 aircraft. It is airworthy and I w ill > demo for any person that wants to see it. That should be prove enough tha t > it is safe IMO or I wouldn=92t fly it! But if I sell it and the buyer cr ashes > it and get hurt or worse killed what is my best defense against getting > sued? I am not the builder. If I am sued how can I protect my assets? F ile > Bankruptcy move all my assets out of my name to my wife=92s name? > > I don=92t have a ton of saving but I sure would hate to lose them on lega l > fees and paying out on a law suit. I would represent myself due to the co st > of a lawyer. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267135#267135 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:04 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Not Kolb related - OP As a former gyrocopter owner my ears picked up at "the bolt that held the collective rod together' -- gyros never used to HAVE a collective rod. Can you supplly any details? In general, the more papers you have the better 'protected' you will be -- but often not well enough anyway. Russ K do not archive On Oct 7, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > [quote="slyck(at)frontiernet.net"]It would be interesting to have > some (factual) history of suits against experimentals. > BB > [quote] > > All I have is one bit of info - about ten years ago our EAA chapter > president was giving rides in a home built gyrocopter and had his > passenger sign a hold harmless agreement prior to the flight. A > bolt that held the collective rod together came out - it was closed > casket funeral time. > The passengers widow chose not to sue because her husband had > signed the hold harmless agreement, and we heard that she had > talked about it with a lawyer. > On the other hand, one widow suing another widow with minimal > assets is not usually profitable... so this anecdote doesn't prove > much > > As Beauford says - worth what ye paid fer it. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (42oldPoops) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267043#267043 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Fall is here From: zeprep251@aol.com Well, looks like fall is here,but even the guy in the open cockpit could not resist.Winds yesterday in the 40-50 mph range but under 20 today so off to breakfast.Took a few pictures on they way. G.Aman MK-3 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Something constructive for Kolbs From: Richard Girard After the engine out caused by something caught in the fuel selector valve and discussion here, Jim Baker suggested some fuel pickup screens originally intended for jet skis. He even had part numbers and a source, Dennis Kirk. It was just what I was looking for, but then the "I'll build it myself" bug bit. Off to the junk drawers and I came up with a couple of barbed tube fittings, some brass sheet stock and a little silver solder. A little turning on the lathe, some drilling on the mill, and a little time with the torch and I had my pickup screens. Rick Girard do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Something constructive for Kolbs From: zeprep251@aol.com Nice work.This is the way business' get started Rick. ? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard Girard Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:51 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Something constructive for Kolbs After the engine out caused by something caught in the fuel selector valve and discussion here, Jim Baker suggested some fuel pickup screens originally intended for jet skis. He even had part numbers and a source, Dennis Kirk. It was just what I was looking for, but then the "I'll build it myself" bug bit.? Off to the junk drawers and I came up with a couple of barbed tube fittings, some brass sheet stock and a little silver solder. A little turning on the lathe, some drilling on the mill, and a little time with the torch and I had my pickup screens.? Rick Girard do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:38 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: law suit after selling plane? The EAA site probably has the best example of a bill of sale...Herb At 02:27 PM 10/8/2009, you wrote: > >All this liability and sueing talk has me >worried. I will be listing my plane for sale >soon as I dont need 2 aircraft. It is >airworthy and I will demo for any person that >wants to see it. That should be prove enough >that it is safe IMO or I wouldnt fly it! >But if I sell it and the buyer crashes it and >get hurt or worse killed what is my best defense >against getting sued? I am not the builder. If >I am sued how can I protect my assets? File >Bankruptcy move all my assets out of my name to my wifes name? > >I dont have a ton of saving but I sure would >hate to lose them on legal fees and paying out >on a law suit. I would represent myself due to the cost of a lawyer. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267135#267135 > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >- Release Date: 10/08/09 18:33:00 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:16 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Hi Gang: Made it to MV. There are a bunch of PPG and one Trike. I watched about 15 of them, late this evening, stand around holding their wings, flying in place. Finally, after an hour or so, two took off, flew north to the end of the airstrip, turned around and landed in the tie down area. End of flying for today. ;-( I expected to see power parachutes flying all over the place, but alas, a little wind and they don't fly. Seems like a lot of work to go no where. Oh well, maybe tomorrow will be a better day. If not, I can always hop on the dirt bike or quad and do some ground recon of a lot of places I have flown in and around MV. Somehow I got the impression there might be some fixed wings here, by chance. Would be nice to see some Kolbs tied down and waiting to fly. Weather is perfect. Take care, john h mkIII Monument Valley, Utah DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley From: Robert Laird You need to be carrying around a 21st century version of Little Nellie*, in a series of suitcases, that you take with you, for situations like that. Assemble it and go fly! :-) "The name.... Hauck.... John Hauck." What a great name for a spy that flies! hehehehe -- Robert * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Little_Nellie.jpg On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 7:46 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Hi Gang: > > Made it to MV. > > There are a bunch of PPG and one Trike. I watched about 15 of them, late > this evening, stand around holding their wings, flying in place. Finally, > after an hour or so, two took off, flew north to the end of the airstrip, > turned around and landed in the tie down area. End of flying for today. ;-( > > I expected to see power parachutes flying all over the place, but alas, a > little wind and they don't fly. > > Seems like a lot of work to go no where. > > Oh well, maybe tomorrow will be a better day. If not, I can always hop on > the dirt bike or quad and do some ground recon of a lot of places I have > flown in and around MV. > > Somehow I got the impression there might be some fixed wings here, by > chance. Would be nice to see some Kolbs tied down and waiting to fly. > > Weather is perfect. > > Take care, > > john h > mkIII > Monument Valley, Utah > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:02 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley Robert L/Gang: I came here with an open mind, but I doubt I'll be swapping my mkIII for a PPG any time soon. About the only thing I have seen so far that I like is the ability to take off and land in a matter of steps. My "landing gear" would never be able to take the abuse. However, there are a couple little PPG's with little carts under them like a Powered Parachute. Another problem is the inability to get home if a headwind is encountered. Got to have a lot more selling points than what I have observed my first day to sell my mkIII. Would take me a month to fly from Alabama to MV. ;-( john h mkIII DO NOT ARCHIVE You need to be carrying around a 21st century version of Little Nellie*, in a series of suitcases, that you take with you, for situations like that. -- Robert ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:09 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Monument Valley At 08:46 PM 10/8/2009, John Hauck wrote: >There are a bunch of PPG and one Trike. I watched about 15 of them, late >this evening, stand around holding their wings, flying in place. Finally, >after an hour or so, two took off, flew north to the end of the airstrip, >turned around and landed in the tie down area. End of flying for today. ;-( > >I expected to see power parachutes flying all over the place, but alas, a >little wind and they don't fly. > >Seems like a lot of work to go no where. When conditions are right, PPG is a blast! Mid day thermals are to be avoided, so unless you live on the coast (as I do) you generally fly in the morning and evening, just like the early ultralights. But you generally don't really GO anywhere, it's more about buzzing around the treetops down low, kind of an aerial dirt bike... if the engine quits you can land on a postage stamp. PPG got me back into flying 20 years after I last flew my T-Craft. Now I have my Kolb and I love it... but I'm not giving up the PPG, either. -Dana -- Place a half full glass of water before a pessimist, optimist and an engineer: The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The optimist says the glass if half full. The engineer says the glass is too large. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:39 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up Jack, I'm the one who suggested that NAPA had a primer bulb. I recently installed one on my Kolb FireStar and didn't experience the collapsing you have, probably because I use a bypass line on my fuel routing setup. Still, glad you pointed it out as a potential problem area. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive In a message dated 10/7/2009 9:49:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes: Checking things over, I found the new squeeze bulb from NAPA was sucked down to the collapsed state. Pulled the line out of the tank thinking something had plugged the entrance to the tube in the tank. This was not the case. I banged the intake side of the bulb with a screw driver handle and it broke the seal and reinstalled everything. Started the engine several times, and I could see that the bulb would start to collapse and the engine would quit. I gave up for the day. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:54 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up I don't know about Jack's fuel system, but sounds like the fuel pump is pulling a lot of vacuum to collapse the bulb. I had one collapse on my Firestar, but it was because some debris partially plugged the inlet to the bulb. That was the day I landed on the Sebring High School foot ball field, Sebring, FL, during the school day with no brakes installed and only partial power, enough to go down only. ;-) john h mkIII Monument Valley, Utah ----- Original Message ----- I recently installed one on my Kolb FireStar and didn't experience the collapsing you have, probably because I use a bypass line on my fuel routing setup. Still, glad you pointed it out as a potential problem area. Bill Varnes ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:21 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Something constructive for Kolbs From: "Richard Pike" rickofudall wrote: > After the engine out caused by something caught in the fuel selector valve and discussion here, Jim Baker suggested some fuel pickup screens originally intended for jet skis. He even had part numbers and a source, Dennis Kirk. It was just what I was looking for, but then the "I'll build it myself" bug bit. Off to the junk drawers and I came up with a couple of barbed tube fittings, some brass sheet stock and a little silver solder. A little turning on the lathe, some drilling on the mill, and a little time with the torch and I had my pickup screens. > > > Rick Girard > do not archive You do nice work. I am sold on good pickup screens, don't have any pictures, but I enclose my pickup tube with a nylon mesh filter I got at Advance Auto Parts, it is about as big around as my thumb, and several inches long, think it was intended to be part of a Ford truck gas tank pickup. I got lucky, talked the guy into letting me look through his boxes of nylon fuel filters as long as I promised to put them all back into the same cubbyholes... If I was in your shoes, I would find a big nylon mesh screen gas filter to slip over your nice pickups and safety wire them tight into place. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267186#267186 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.