Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:51 AM - Crash photos (Lanny Fetterman)
2. 08:55 AM - Re: Crash photos (Mike Welch)
3. 11:16 AM - slow times on the Kolb list (icrashrc)
4. 11:22 AM - Crash photos (Lanny Fetterman)
5. 11:36 AM - Re: Crash photos (Herb)
6. 01:13 PM - Re: Crash Photos (Dana Hague)
7. 03:03 PM - Re: Crash photos (Mike Welch)
8. 06:40 PM - Re: Brad Stump (Steamin)
Message 1
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One thing I think is for sure, the aircraft DID NOT hit on the landing
gear as they don`t appear to be bent in any way. The fabric isn`t even
wrinkled. This makes me think the aircraft did indeed flip over without
being airborne. Lanny FSII Do not archive
Message 2
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> This makes me think the aircraft did indeed flip over without
> being airborne. Lanny FSII Do not archive
Lanny=2C
Respectfully=2C are you kidding??!!! Are you telling us this airplane ju
st rolled forward onto it's nose=2C and received all this damage??!!! And
this guy needed a helicopter to transport him to a second hospital!! Pl
ease!! He has leg injuries=2C for Pete's sake. Jeesh!!
(Let's apply some common sense to this investigation analysis.
A) He's a new pilot and has a new plane.
B) So=2C 99.9% the winds were calm.
C) He doesn't want to give out incriminating information=2C so he says "he
was taxiing". Yet=2C he incurred severe leg injuries. Exactly how do you
get severe leg injuries from taxiing?? D) "He dropped a wing." Again=2C
since when does "dropping a wing" annilate your airplane to smithereens??
E) Plus=2C there's plenty of other evidence this guy flew his airplane into
the asphalt!)
First of all=2C I speak from experience. I crashed an ultralight just li
ke this (the crash was similar=2C not the ultralight)!!! Did you catch tha
t? It felt like deja vu=2C looking at the photos of the plane in a pile on
it's nose.
My damage was quite a bit less than his=2C but similar=2C and I WAS airb
orne prior to crashing! THAT is why it didn't hurt the landing gear. His
airplane=2C like mine=2C NOSED IN!!! Look at his photos!!
First=2C I'm certain this guy said he was doing "(high speed) "taxi" test
s=2C hence the taxi reference. He also said he "dropped" a wing". How do
you drop a wing=2C unless you're flying? The wing stalled. Been there=2C
done that. (regretfully)
Second=2C he obviously became airborne=2C as I did=2C and didn't handle i
t well. He clearly stalled and nosed in. This explains his leg injuries
=2C and not contacting the landing gear.
Third=2C he crashed because he didn't have proper instruction=2C in essen
ce=2C a flight instructor!! I wonder=2C now=2C if getting proper flight in
struction seems like a good idea to this guy? Hmm?
To bring this topic into being Kolb related=3B we Kolb builder's sometime
s think that some long lost flight training (like me)=2C or if we just go a
bout it slowly (crow hops)=2C we'll be okay.
MAYBE!! Yes=2C some of us have successfully flown our newly built planes a
nd lived to tell about it....without proper flight training. Can it be don
e? Sure. Is it a good plan?? Not likely! Many of us have paid a big pri
ce for such a gamble!!!
There are enough Kolb owners among us that have not "lived to tell about
it"=2C or at least damaged their planes and themselves when they could have
avoided such a tragedy.
Build your plane!! Then=2C get instruction!!!! Why risk yourself or you
r plane to such an occurrence? Flight instructors serve a useful purpose.
I will be using one's guidance to hopefully keep me from repeating this cr
ash scenario.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
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Message 3
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Subject: | slow times on the Kolb list |
I now have all the steel parts for our M3X primed and painted and we're just starting
to cover. I'll probably start a new page on covering soon. In the meantime
things seem a little slow on the list so i thought i would share this.
http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/ThePatch.htm
**********************************************************
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Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268332#268332
Message 4
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Geesh Mike, Respectfully, take a chill pill. If he stuck it in like a lawn
dart, as you imply. It is my opinion that the gear would be at least a
little twisted. The wheels would at least be out of alignment. Since, I
did not witness this incident, I as well as you, are only making a guess as
to what happened. If his gear are that strong, I think I will change mine
to his design. Lanny FSII PS I may be gullable, however, I try
never to lie. Therefore, if a person says something happened a certain way,
I am inclined to belive them until I have proof they are lying. I should
know better after teaching high school students for 35 years. However, I am
what I am. Do not archive
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Crash photos |
surely looks like he got airborne...maybe 50 to 100 feet
...panicked...stalled...came down very steeply... I have dropped my
Mini Max in from 20 feet with minimal damage...Herb
At 01:18 PM 10/17/2009, you wrote:
>
>Geesh Mike, Respectfully, take a chill pill. If he stuck it in like
>a lawn dart, as you imply. It is my opinion that the gear would be
>at least a little twisted. The wheels would at least be out of
>alignment. Since, I did not witness this incident, I as well as
>you, are only making a guess as to what happened. If his gear are
>that strong, I think I will change mine to his design. Lanny
>FSII PS I may be gullable, however, I try never to lie.
>Therefore, if a person says something happened a certain way, I am
>inclined to belive them until I have proof they are lying. I should
>know better after teaching high school students for 35 years.
>However, I am what I am. Do not archive
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>10/16/09 18:39:00
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Crash Photos |
Could have been doing a high speed taxi, groundlooped, and caught a wing
tip. Or... ask Bill Sullivan how one can destroy a plane while intending
to do nothing but taxiing.
-Dana
--
The two most common elements in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
Message 7
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> Geesh Mike=2C Respectfully=2C take a chill pill. If he stuck it in like a
lawn
> dart=2C as you imply. It is my opinion that the gear would be at least a
> little twisted. The wheels would at least be out of alignment. Since=2C I
> did not witness this incident=2C I as well as you=2C are only making a gu
ess as
> to what happened. If his gear are that strong=2C I think I will change mi
ne
> to his design. Lanny FSII PS I may be gullable=2C however=2C I try
> never to lie. Therefore=2C if a person says something happened a certain
way=2C
> I am inclined to belive them until I have proof they are lying. I should
> know better after teaching high school students for 35 years. However=2C
I am
> what I am. Do not archive
Lanny=2C
Chill pill? Ok.
I think Herb has it correct. I think 50 feet or higher=2C then nosed it
in. That would explain his plane being obliterated=2C collapsing the fusel
age=2C and his legs getting squashed in the process. That would also expla
in zero wheel/gear damage....landing on the nose.
If you want to believe he simply nosed over=2C that's ok with me.
I crashed an ultralight doing what I believe he did. I had zero wheel da
mage. Didn't land on the wheels=2C landed on the nose. Hurt like heck=2C
too. The plane was squished up to the idiot's seat. I hope I've learned f
rom that.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
Are you saying high school students never lie? I think they perfect it!
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Message 8
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Hi. I was a co worker with Brad. His loss has left a hole in many lives.
Since this forum is dedicated to pilot safety, I feel compelled to add to the above
discussion that, the BRS chute entanglement was most certainly, at least
to me, caused by the fact the rocket never fired. First responders weren't able
to get near the crash until the rocket was fired.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268372#268372
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