---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/17/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:51 AM - Crash photos (Lanny Fetterman) 2. 08:55 AM - Re: Crash photos (Mike Welch) 3. 11:16 AM - slow times on the Kolb list (icrashrc) 4. 11:22 AM - Crash photos (Lanny Fetterman) 5. 11:36 AM - Re: Crash photos (Herb) 6. 01:13 PM - Re: Crash Photos (Dana Hague) 7. 03:03 PM - Re: Crash photos (Mike Welch) 8. 06:40 PM - Re: Brad Stump (Steamin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:40 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Crash photos One thing I think is for sure, the aircraft DID NOT hit on the landing gear as they don`t appear to be bent in any way. The fabric isn`t even wrinkled. This makes me think the aircraft did indeed flip over without being airborne. Lanny FSII Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:25 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Crash photos > This makes me think the aircraft did indeed flip over without > being airborne. Lanny FSII Do not archive Lanny=2C Respectfully=2C are you kidding??!!! Are you telling us this airplane ju st rolled forward onto it's nose=2C and received all this damage??!!! And this guy needed a helicopter to transport him to a second hospital!! Pl ease!! He has leg injuries=2C for Pete's sake. Jeesh!! (Let's apply some common sense to this investigation analysis. A) He's a new pilot and has a new plane. B) So=2C 99.9% the winds were calm. C) He doesn't want to give out incriminating information=2C so he says "he was taxiing". Yet=2C he incurred severe leg injuries. Exactly how do you get severe leg injuries from taxiing?? D) "He dropped a wing." Again=2C since when does "dropping a wing" annilate your airplane to smithereens?? E) Plus=2C there's plenty of other evidence this guy flew his airplane into the asphalt!) First of all=2C I speak from experience. I crashed an ultralight just li ke this (the crash was similar=2C not the ultralight)!!! Did you catch tha t? It felt like deja vu=2C looking at the photos of the plane in a pile on it's nose. My damage was quite a bit less than his=2C but similar=2C and I WAS airb orne prior to crashing! THAT is why it didn't hurt the landing gear. His airplane=2C like mine=2C NOSED IN!!! Look at his photos!! First=2C I'm certain this guy said he was doing "(high speed) "taxi" test s=2C hence the taxi reference. He also said he "dropped" a wing". How do you drop a wing=2C unless you're flying? The wing stalled. Been there=2C done that. (regretfully) Second=2C he obviously became airborne=2C as I did=2C and didn't handle i t well. He clearly stalled and nosed in. This explains his leg injuries =2C and not contacting the landing gear. Third=2C he crashed because he didn't have proper instruction=2C in essen ce=2C a flight instructor!! I wonder=2C now=2C if getting proper flight in struction seems like a good idea to this guy? Hmm? To bring this topic into being Kolb related=3B we Kolb builder's sometime s think that some long lost flight training (like me)=2C or if we just go a bout it slowly (crow hops)=2C we'll be okay. MAYBE!! Yes=2C some of us have successfully flown our newly built planes a nd lived to tell about it....without proper flight training. Can it be don e? Sure. Is it a good plan?? Not likely! Many of us have paid a big pri ce for such a gamble!!! There are enough Kolb owners among us that have not "lived to tell about it"=2C or at least damaged their planes and themselves when they could have avoided such a tragedy. Build your plane!! Then=2C get instruction!!!! Why risk yourself or you r plane to such an occurrence? Flight instructors serve a useful purpose. I will be using one's guidance to hopefully keep me from repeating this cr ash scenario. Mike Welch MkIII CX _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:46 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: slow times on the Kolb list From: "icrashrc" I now have all the steel parts for our M3X primed and painted and we're just starting to cover. I'll probably start a new page on covering soon. In the meantime things seem a little slow on the list so i thought i would share this. http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/ThePatch.htm ********************************************************** -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268332#268332 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:16 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Crash photos Geesh Mike, Respectfully, take a chill pill. If he stuck it in like a lawn dart, as you imply. It is my opinion that the gear would be at least a little twisted. The wheels would at least be out of alignment. Since, I did not witness this incident, I as well as you, are only making a guess as to what happened. If his gear are that strong, I think I will change mine to his design. Lanny FSII PS I may be gullable, however, I try never to lie. Therefore, if a person says something happened a certain way, I am inclined to belive them until I have proof they are lying. I should know better after teaching high school students for 35 years. However, I am what I am. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:21 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Crash photos surely looks like he got airborne...maybe 50 to 100 feet ...panicked...stalled...came down very steeply... I have dropped my Mini Max in from 20 feet with minimal damage...Herb At 01:18 PM 10/17/2009, you wrote: > >Geesh Mike, Respectfully, take a chill pill. If he stuck it in like >a lawn dart, as you imply. It is my opinion that the gear would be >at least a little twisted. The wheels would at least be out of >alignment. Since, I did not witness this incident, I as well as >you, are only making a guess as to what happened. If his gear are >that strong, I think I will change mine to his design. Lanny >FSII PS I may be gullable, however, I try never to lie. >Therefore, if a person says something happened a certain way, I am >inclined to belive them until I have proof they are lying. I should >know better after teaching high school students for 35 years. >However, I am what I am. Do not archive > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >10/16/09 18:39:00 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:59 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Crash Photos Could have been doing a high speed taxi, groundlooped, and caught a wing tip. Or... ask Bill Sullivan how one can destroy a plane while intending to do nothing but taxiing. -Dana -- The two most common elements in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:46 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Crash photos > Geesh Mike=2C Respectfully=2C take a chill pill. If he stuck it in like a lawn > dart=2C as you imply. It is my opinion that the gear would be at least a > little twisted. The wheels would at least be out of alignment. Since=2C I > did not witness this incident=2C I as well as you=2C are only making a gu ess as > to what happened. If his gear are that strong=2C I think I will change mi ne > to his design. Lanny FSII PS I may be gullable=2C however=2C I try > never to lie. Therefore=2C if a person says something happened a certain way=2C > I am inclined to belive them until I have proof they are lying. I should > know better after teaching high school students for 35 years. However=2C I am > what I am. Do not archive Lanny=2C Chill pill? Ok. I think Herb has it correct. I think 50 feet or higher=2C then nosed it in. That would explain his plane being obliterated=2C collapsing the fusel age=2C and his legs getting squashed in the process. That would also expla in zero wheel/gear damage....landing on the nose. If you want to believe he simply nosed over=2C that's ok with me. I crashed an ultralight doing what I believe he did. I had zero wheel da mage. Didn't land on the wheels=2C landed on the nose. Hurt like heck=2C too. The plane was squished up to the idiot's seat. I hope I've learned f rom that. Mike Welch MkIII CX Are you saying high school students never lie? I think they perfect it! _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:15 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Brad Stump From: "Steamin" Hi. I was a co worker with Brad. His loss has left a hole in many lives. Since this forum is dedicated to pilot safety, I feel compelled to add to the above discussion that, the BRS chute entanglement was most certainly, at least to me, caused by the fact the rocket never fired. First responders weren't able to get near the crash until the rocket was fired. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268372#268372 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.