Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (Rick Lewis)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Super Cub Bear Attack 2009 (cristalclear13)
3. 06:46 AM - Re: Firefly prop (Ducati SS)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (Dave Kulp)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (robert bean)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (russ kinne)
7. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: law suit after selling plane? (pj.ladd)
8. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Building Kolb Mark 3 enclosed trailer sizing? (pj.ladd)
9. 10:04 AM - Re: Crash Photos (pj.ladd)
10. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: law suit after selling plane? (Dana Hague)
11. 03:44 PM - Muffler pics for Thom... (ces308)
12. 07:58 PM - Re: Re: law suit after selling plane? (possums)
13. 08:12 PM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (chris davis)
14. 08:27 PM - Re: Crash Photos (possums)
15. 08:39 PM - Re: law suit after selling plane? (possums)
16. 08:55 PM - Re: Crash Photos (Herb)
17. 09:16 PM - Re: Crash Photos (Dana Hague)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
I have already been through this when I sold my Cozy. I was very concerned about
a law suit as you are. In talking to a lawyer about this, he told me there
was NO document available that could be singed that would protect you from a
law suit. I sold the Cozy anyway and had the guy sign the document that the EAA
came up with. Four months later he resold the plane and now all bets are off.
I also actually thought about dismantling the plane and selling parts but
any piece that I built I was liable for. But that's the key word, "I BUILT".
If you did NOT build the plane you are not liable, at all, for the planes construction
defects. That liability will fall back on the original builder.
If you sell a Piper aircraft, you are not responsible for the construction defects
that may be there.
Here is the other down fall. Even if you did not build the plane you could
still find yourself in court were you may win the case but you have spent a
lot of money defending yourself. I don't call that winning either. The more
money there lawyer thinks you have the more likely you will end up in court, simple
as that.
Rick Lewis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268904#268904
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Super Cub Bear Attack 2009 |
But where is the picture of it actually flying again? [Wink]
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268906#268906
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Firefly prop |
Thank you - I am aware of those factors, I thought someone might have the same
combination and be able to provide # of turns on the adjuster or degrees of pitch.
I would like to go as quickly as possible into the break in without multiple
starts and stops to set the prop.
I do plan to avoid very high RPM use, I was planning to pull the engine apart
prior to flying to improve midrange performance but other projects may prevent
that for now.
Tom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268916#268916
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
Kolbers,
The discussion we're seeing on liability is an indictment on the lack of
personal responsibility that is becoming more and more prevalent in our
society. We're turning into a bunch of whining, puking babies, to quote
a master.
Re: my catastrophic failure at over 1000' AGL in an underconstructed
Chicken Hawk, I did try to locate the mfgr. in Bellingham, WA, but
learned he was out of business. I intended to sue the manufacturer,
since the manufacturer has the responsibility to build a product that is
adequate for its intended purpose, and just as the consumer doesn't have
the obligation to check the tensile strength of the tie rods of the car
he buys, I should not be expected to research the cables used for the
flight controls, which had failed.
But!!! that's where it stops with a reasonable person in this kind of
situation. I never considered suing the man I bought the UL from, the
fellow who put it together, the owner of the strip I flew out of, or
even the man a mile from the airstrip whose brush growing along his
drive served to allow me to survive the fall. None of them had any
responsibility for the construction of or my decision to fly the
aircraft. And since I've raised my children with the same personal
responsibility philosophy that was bred into me, it's highly unlikely
they would have acted any differently if I hadn't survived.
Bottom line: anyone can sue anyone for almost anything, so you can't
shovel snow perfectly enough to totally escape the threat of a lawsuit.
I believe it's best to just relax, go about life in a reasonable manner,
and fight the bozos when you must. There are too many of them on the
loose to avoid them entirely!
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
You can check
www.matronics.com/photoshare/undoctor@rcn.com.05.07.2007 if you'd
like to check pics, etc. of the failure and crash.
Time: 06:11:03 PM PST US
Subject: Re: law suit after selling plane?
From: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
Grant,
Here is my advice..although as has been already said...its worth
what you are
paying for it...
Demo the plane for the buyer...show him it is flys...
then take it apart...not completely of course... just take the
wings off and take
out the fuel tank if its not too hard...simple things and have
him help so
he can see how to put it back together..
Then have him sign a doc that says he is buying an aircraft that
is NOT in flying
condition...parts sale only.
Pack it up and send him on his way.
Even a rookie lawyer could defend you against his heirs if he
kills himself in
it then.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
not much of an airfoil on that corntraption Dave. In the mid 70s when
those kinds of toys became popular I also
was fascinated by the simplicity of bare bones flying machines. I
already had a PPL and a "real" airplane but
still was curious. What saved me from buying one was the high
prices. $3000 for a pile of pipes and cloth
was ridiculous when You could buy a used certificated airplane for the
same amount.
The gap of reality between planes like the Baby Ace and the sleazy
stuff like the chicken hawk fortunately got
closed with the likes of Kolbs, Flightstars, etc.
BB
On 22, Oct 2009, at 10:13 AM, Dave Kulp wrote:
>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> The discussion we're seeing on liability is an indictment on the
> lack of personal responsibility that is becoming more and more
> prevalent in our society. We're turning into a bunch of whining,
> puking babies, to quote a master.
>
> Re: my catastrophic failure at over 1000' AGL in an underconstructed
> Chicken Hawk, I did try to locate the mfgr. in Bellingham, WA, but
> learned he was out of business. I intended to sue the manufacturer,
> since the manufacturer has the responsibility to build a product
> that is adequate for its intended purpose, and just as the consumer
> doesn't have the obligation to check the tensile strength of the tie
> rods of the car he buys, I should not be expected to research the
> cables used for the flight controls, which had failed.
>
> But!!! that's where it stops with a reasonable person in this kind
> of situation. I never considered suing the man I bought the UL
> from, the fellow who put it together, the owner of the strip I flew
> out of, or even the man a mile from the airstrip whose brush growing
> along his drive served to allow me to survive the fall. None of
> them had any responsibility for the construction of or my decision
> to fly the aircraft. And since I've raised my children with the
> same personal responsibility philosophy that was bred into me, it's
> highly unlikely they would have acted any differently if I hadn't
> survived.
>
> Bottom line: anyone can sue anyone for almost anything, so you can't
> shovel snow perfectly enough to totally escape the threat of a
> lawsuit. I believe it's best to just relax, go about life in a
> reasonable manner, and fight the bozos when you must. There are too
> many of them on the loose to avoid them entirely!
>
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
> FireFly 11DMK
>
> You can check www.matronics.com/photoshare/undoctor@rcn.com.05.07.2007
> if you'd like to check pics, etc. of the failure and crash.
>
> Time: 06:11:03 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: law suit after selling plane?
> From: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
> Grant,
> Here is my advice..although as has been already said...its
> worth what you are
> paying for it...
> Demo the plane for the buyer...show him it is flys...
> then take it apart...not completely of course... just take the
> wings off and take
> out the fuel tank if its not too hard...simple things and have
> him help so
> he can see how to put it back together..
> Then have him sign a doc that says he is buying an aircraft that
> is NOT in flying
> condition...parts sale only.
> Pack it up and send him on his way.
> Even a rookie lawyer could defend you against his heirs if he
> kills himself in
> it then.
> --------
> Don G.
> Central Illinois
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Luscombe 8A
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
Just one small addendum to Dave Kulp's good description of liability
in our flying -- get all the signed releases you reasonably can.
These little pieces of paper can save your tail some day. Might
include one saying "in buying this (whatever) I understand that it is
not new, and the seller accepts no responsibility for it in case it
fails"
Or "I am flying in this aircraft of my own free will, and don't
hold the owner, builder, or pilot responsible in any way if a crash
occurs"
No doubt legal-trained people can refine the wording, but it's a
great help to have SOMETHING if trouble occurs.
Unfortunately, you can't expect lawyers to act like "responsible
people", and remember they're hired to win the case, not be popular
or reasonable.
Also, where substantial amounts of money are on the horizon, even
"responsible people" sometimes act very differently.
A sad situation, but there it is. A few pieces of paper can save you
a lot of time, aggravation, cash, you name it.
But above all, fly safe & avoid all this if you can.
Russ K
do not archive
On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Dave Kulp wrote:
>
>
> Kolbers,
>
> The discussion we're seeing on liability is an indictment on the
> lack of personal responsibility that is becoming more and more
> prevalent in our society. We're turning into a bunch of whining,
> puking babies, to quote a master.
>
> Re: my catastrophic failure at over 1000' AGL in an
> underconstructed Chicken Hawk, I did try to locate the mfgr. in
> Bellingham, WA, but learned he was out of business. I intended to
> sue the manufacturer, since the manufacturer has the responsibility
> to build a product that is adequate for its intended purpose, and
> just as the consumer doesn't have the obligation to check the
> tensile strength of the tie rods of the car he buys, I should not
> be expected to research the cables used for the flight controls,
> which had failed.
>
> But!!! that's where it stops with a reasonable person in this kind
> of situation. I never considered suing the man I bought the UL
> from, the fellow who put it together, the owner of the strip I flew
> out of, or even the man a mile from the airstrip whose brush
> growing along his drive served to allow me to survive the fall.
> None of them had any responsibility for the construction of or my
> decision to fly the aircraft. And since I've raised my children
> with the same personal responsibility philosophy that was bred into
> me, it's highly unlikely they would have acted any differently if I
> hadn't survived.
>
> Bottom line: anyone can sue anyone for almost anything, so you
> can't shovel snow perfectly enough to totally escape the threat of
> a lawsuit. I believe it's best to just relax, go about life in a
> reasonable manner, and fight the bozos when you must. There are
> too many of them on the loose to avoid them entirely!
>
> Dave Kulp
> Bethlehem, PA
> FireFly 11DMK
>
> You can check www.matronics.com/photoshare/undoctor@rcn.com.
> 05.07.2007 if you'd like to check pics, etc. of the failure
> and crash.
>
> Time: 06:11:03 PM PST US
> Subject: Re: law suit after selling plane?
> From: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>
> Grant,
> Here is my advice..although as has been already said...its
> worth what you are
> paying for it...
> Demo the plane for the buyer...show him it is flys...
> then take it apart...not completely of course... just take the
> wings off and take
> out the fuel tank if its not too hard...simple things and
> have him help so
> he can see how to put it back together..
> Then have him sign a doc that says he is buying an aircraft
> that is NOT in flying
> condition...parts sale only.
> Pack it up and send him on his way.
> Even a rookie lawyer could defend you against his heirs if he
> kills himself in
> it then.
> --------
> Don G.
> Central Illinois
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Luscombe 8A
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
Four months later he resold the plane and now all bets are off. >>.....
Hi,
not from what your next paragraph says..>>....That liability will fall back
on the ORIGINAL BUILDER
<<. If you sell a Piper aircraft, you are not responsible for the
construction defects that may be there.>>
Wasn`t there a story, maybe apocryphal about the guy who taxied his Cub into
a tree and took Piper to court on a charge of bad design because he couldn`t
see over the nose??
Cheers
Pat
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Building Kolb Mark 3 enclosed trailer sizing? |
Here are a couple of pictures....>>
Hi,
What a pretty looking Kolb. Very nice indeed.
Don`t want to teach my granny to suck eggs and you have probably done this
by now but a couple of battens laid a few inches apart on the floor of the
trailer enables the tail wheel to be guided into position while pushing the
plane from the front.
Pat
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Crash Photos |
The government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid, >>
Absolutely agree John, but a quiet word pointing out that someone else
did that before and now they are dead may be of help.
Pat
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
At 12:32 PM 10/22/2009, pj.ladd wrote:
>Wasn`t there a story, maybe apocryphal about the guy who taxied his Cub
>into a tree and took Piper to court on a charge of bad design because he
>couldn`t see over the nose??
I never heard that one (though it wouldn't surprise me) but one case that
raised a big stink some years ago was the case of a Cub that crashed due to
a failed part installed years earlier... said failed part being neither
original nor made by Piper. The widow sued Piper, the airport, the A&P who
performed the annual, the previous owner, you name it. I don't recall the
details but I think it was settled out of court.
-Dana
--
A day without sunshine is like, night.
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Muffler pics for Thom... |
Hi Thom / and Gang...
here are the pictures of the muffler...I do not have to remove the muffler to fold
the wings... What does yours look like???
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab 74.0 hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268982#268982
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cold_and_gloomy_020_300.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cold_and_gloomy_019_384.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cold_and_gloomy_017_679.jpg
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
At 09:10 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>
>Grant,
>Here is my advice..although as has been already said...its worth
>what you are paying for it...
>
>Demo the plane for the buyer...show him it is flys...
>then take it apart...not completely of course... just take the wings
>off and take out the fuel tank if its not too hard...simple things
>and have him help so he can see how to put it back together..
>Then have him sign a doc that says he is buying an aircraft that is
>NOT in flying condition...parts sale only.
>Pack it up and send him on his way.
>Even a rookie lawyer could defend you against his heirs if he kills
>himself in it then.
>
>--------
>Don G.
Here is what you have to understand. No variation, no document, no
contract, in no way would ever work. The person that buys your plane
may or may not be able to sue you depending on the details,
BUT.... The person that purchases your plane can NOT EVER sign the
rights of his family away, they can sue you no matter what he signs.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
you could have !!!
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
Dave I'm with you , I crashed with the demo pilot at TNK Norm Labhart the l
awyers that my wife had wanted me to sue for millions of dollars, Kolb , Ro
tax , The pilots widow ,- I look at life very much like I-believe from
your email you do , I couldn't sue Kolb there was-very-little wrong wit
h the Mk III ex , I couldn't sue Rotax the NTSB took the engine to Fl . put
it on a stand and ran it WFO for 100 hrs without failure, and Norms wife I
could have sued her and taken their home but I wouldn't do something like
that , he had 2 kids 8 and 6 and I could never be that much of an asshole.
He was from all reports John Haucks and every one who new him a good- man
and a good pilot ! =0A--- Our society has turned into an overly liti
gious abortion ,I walked around that aircraft and I got in what happened to
me was my responsibility! Amen!- Chris=0A=0A=0A=0AI Chris Davis=0AKXP 50
3 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Dave Kulp <undoctor@ptd.net>
=0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, October 22, 2009 10:13:42 AM=0A
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: law suit after selling plane?=0A=0A--> Kolb-List me
ssage posted by: Dave Kulp <undoctor@ptd.net>=0A=0A- - =0A=0AKolbers,
=0A=0AThe discussion we're seeing on liability is an indictment on the lack
of personal responsibility that is becoming more and more prevalent in our
society.- We're turning into a bunch of whining, puking babies, to quote
a master.=0A=0ARe: my catastrophic failure at over 1000' AGL in an underco
nstructed Chicken Hawk, I did try to locate the mfgr. in Bellingham, WA, bu
t learned he was out of business.- I intended to sue the manufacturer, si
nce the manufacturer has the responsibility to build a product that is adeq
uate for its intended purpose, and just as the consumer doesn't have the ob
ligation to check the tensile strength of the tie rods of the car he buys,
I should not be expected to research the cables used for the flight control
s, which had failed.=0A=0ABut!!!- that's where it stops with a reasonable
person in this kind of situation.- I never considered suing the man I bo
ught the UL from, the fellow who put it together, the owner of the strip I
flew out of, or even the man a mile from the airstrip whose brush growing a
long his drive served to allow me to survive the fall.- None of them had
any responsibility for the construction of or my decision to fly the aircra
ft.- And since I've raised my children with the same personal responsibil
ity philosophy that was bred into me, it's highly unlikely they would have
acted any differently if I hadn't survived.=0A=0ABottom line: anyone can su
e anyone for almost anything, so you can't shovel snow perfectly enough to
totally escape the threat of a lawsuit.- I believe it's best to just rela
x, go about life in a reasonable manner, and fight the bozos when you must.
- There are too many of them on the loose to avoid them entirely!=0A=0ADa
ve Kulp=0ABethlehem, PA=0AFireFly 11DMK=0A=0AYou can check- - - www.m
atronics.com/photoshare/undoctor@rcn.com.05.07.2007- - - if you'd lik
e to check pics, etc. of the failure and crash.=0A=0ATime:- - 06:11:03
PM PST US=0ASubject:- - Re: law suit after selling plane?=0AFrom:-
- "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>=0A- - - - - - - Grant,=0A
- - Here is my advice..although as- has been already said...its worth
what you are=0A- - paying for it...=0A- - - - - Demo the pla
ne for the buyer...show him it is flys...=0A- - then take it apart...no
t completely of course... just take the wings off and take=0A- - out th
e fuel tank if its not too hard...simple things and- have him help so=0A
- - he can see how to put it back together..=0A- - Then have him si
gn a doc that says he is buying an aircraft that is NOT in flying=0A- -
condition...parts sale only.=0A- - Pack it up and send him on his way.
=0A- - Even a rookie lawyer could defend you against his heirs if he ki
lls himself in=0A- - it then.=0A- - - - - --------=0A- -
Don G.=0A- - Central Illinois=0A- - Kitfox IV Speedster=0A- - L
==================0A=0A=0A
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Crash Photos |
I agree with the "government can not prevent folks from doing
something stupid" part.
I've been involved, so to speak, in at least 3 incidents that caused
damaged to my plane. No one else
and one else's property was involved. No one was hurt or
inconvenienced in anyway.
In all three occasions the FAA told the people (police, me, FBO,
etc.) that they were not going to
investigate because they were told the "plane" was an ultralight".
They lied every time. They went out of
their way to investigate. Things can turn ugly very quickly if you
take them at their word.
Of course things are different now with the SPL.
However.............be mindful that even though they are very
nice & professional when they ask you questions (even over the phone)
they are not your friends.
For instance - (nothing to do with the above) but if they say someone
reported you flying too low (buzzing) their house - what color is your plane??
Do not answer the question directly. Ask them what color the plan was
that broke the rules. It will never
be your color, unless you give it to them first. Maybe I just got a
chip on my shoulder, but after the first time, I never
let them trick me again. If you crashed your plane back them - take
out the extra tank, remove the engine, even tear off the fabric.
No so much of a problem anymore. But they ain't your friends!
At 10:30 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>Patrick/Gang:
>
>The government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid,
>
>I, personally, do not see a down side to this accident by not
>getting the FAA and NTSB involved. Both these agencies have their
>hands full investigating "real" airplane accidents.
>
>We are already over regulated and Obama wants to regulate us even
>more. ;-( More government, more tax.
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: law suit after selling plane? |
At 09:22 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>Dave I'm with you , I crashed with the demo pilot at TNK Norm
>Labhart the lawyers that my wife had wanted me to sue for millions
>of dollars--snip--
> Our society has turned into an overly litigious abortion ,I
> walked around that aircraft and I got in what happened to me was my
> responsibility! Amen! Chris
It wasn't for you it was for him (the lawyer). Same, same for class
actions law suits, where the lawyers get $125,000,000 and the plaintiffs
get a $500 coupon of their next purchase of a Pinto. (That would be a
"Yugo" to you Pat)
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Crash Photos |
the scariest words in the western world...."Hi, I am from the
Government and I am here to help you"!!!! :-)
At 10:24 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>I agree with the "government can not prevent folks from doing
>something stupid" part.
>
>I've been involved, so to speak, in at least 3 incidents that caused
>damaged to my plane. No one else
>and one else's property was involved. No one was hurt or
>inconvenienced in anyway.
>In all three occasions the FAA told the people (police, me, FBO,
>etc.) that they were not going to
>investigate because they were told the "plane" was an ultralight".
>They lied every time. They went out of
>their way to investigate. Things can turn ugly very quickly if you
>take them at their word.
>Of course things are different now with the SPL.
>However.............be mindful that even though they are very
>nice & professional when they ask you questions (even over the
>phone) they are not your friends.
>For instance - (nothing to do with the above) but if they say
>someone reported you flying too low (buzzing) their house - what
>color is your plane??
>Do not answer the question directly. Ask them what color the plan
>was that broke the rules. It will never
>be your color, unless you give it to them first. Maybe I just got a
>chip on my shoulder, but after the first time, I never
>let them trick me again. If you crashed your plane back them - take
>out the extra tank, remove the engine, even tear off the fabric.
>No so much of a problem anymore. But they ain't your friends!
>
>At 10:30 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
>>Patrick/Gang:
>>
>>The government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid,
>>
>>I, personally, do not see a down side to this accident by not
>>getting the FAA and NTSB involved. Both these agencies have their
>>hands full investigating "real" airplane accidents.
>>
>>We are already over regulated and Obama wants to regulate us even
>>more. ;-( More government, more tax.
>>
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>10/22/09 18:44:00
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Crash Photos |
At 05:02 AM 10/21/2009, pj.ladd wrote:
>If it's an ultralight and there are no injuries to anybody on the ground
>the FAA or NTSB rarely investigate.>>
>
>Hi Dana,
>Your system has many freedoms but this looks like the downside. Here
>there would be an investigation. Not with the purpose of punishment but
>trying to find out what happened so that it could be avoided by others.
Well, I suppose one can't have it both ways. I'll take the freedom, and
the risks and responsibilities that go along with it.
Most of the time it's pretty clear anyway what happened. In the case of
the photos that started this discussion, although we're speculating
endlessly on the details, the root cause is clear: pilot error.
-Dana
--
I started out with nothing. I still have most of it left.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|