---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/29/09: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:06 AM - Re: Re: gravity feed fuel system (Thumb) 2. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: gravity feed fuel system (pj.ladd) 3. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: gravity feed fuel system (robert bean) 4. 09:07 AM - Re: Fuel filler stand (John Hauck) 5. 09:10 AM - Re: Fuel filler stand (John Hauck) 6. 09:57 AM - fuel system debate (Arksey@aol.com) 7. 10:02 AM - Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (icrashrc) 8. 12:18 PM - Re: fuel system debate (JetPilot) 9. 12:35 PM - Re: gravity feed fuel system (JetPilot) 10. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (Jack B. Hart) 11. 03:02 PM - Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute? (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 12. 04:42 PM - Re: Gravity feed fuel system (william sullivan) 13. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: gravity feed fuel system (Dana Hague) 14. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: fuel system debate (Dana Hague) 15. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: gravity feed fuel system (russ kinne) 16. 06:13 PM - Re: fuel system debate (Richard Girard) 17. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation (Jack B. Hart) 18. 07:08 PM - Re: fuel system debate (Arksey@aol.com) 19. 09:25 PM - Re: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (jerb) 20. 09:53 PM - Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute?- Cutting Fabric (jerb) 21. 10:45 PM - Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute? (henry.voris) 22. 10:54 PM - Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute?- Cutting Fabric (henry.voris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:45 AM PST US From: "Thumb" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system And almost farm tractors have gravity feed fuel system, if not all. At least I have never seen one with a pump.. Bill Futrell Do Not Archive... ----- Original Message ----- From: russ kinne To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system Mike Have you perhaps forgotten that all small Cessnas -- BTW, a "Certified aircraft manufacturer" -- have gravity-fed fuel systems? Backed up sometimes by both mechanical and electrical fuel pumps. And for how many decades has this been working just fine? On Cessnas, Stinsons, Taylorcraft, Luscombes, Norsemen, Otters. Beavers, etc etc. Perhaps no one ever told Clyde Cessna that it wasn't a good idea. do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:52 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system The system should be designed so that either pump alone could keep the engine running. Chances of having two pumps fail at once are nil, and you don't have all the hazards, and complication of what you are proposing. Tank above, tube in the middle, carburettor below. No pump. What is complicated.? Haven`t noticed many lawnmowers bursting into flame recently. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system From: robert bean Even with multiple electric pumps, when that 12VDC goes away you better start looking for a good spot. BB On 29, Oct 2009, at 10:39 AM, pj.ladd wrote: > > The system should be designed so that either pump alone could keep > the engine running. Chances of having two pumps fail at once are > nil, and you don't have all the hazards, and complication of what > you are proposing. > > Tank above, tube in the middle, carburettor below. No pump. What > is complicated.? > > Haven`t noticed many lawnmowers bursting into flame recently. > > > Cheers > > Pat > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:43 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel filler stand Luckily, the only static I get is from the Kolb List. ;-) john h Death Valley, CA Bad thing about plain vinyl tubing is static jerb ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:56 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel filler stand Sticking the legs in the ground wouldn't work where I am now, Death Valley, CA. Kinda dry here. My new inside/outside thermometer/humidity meter would not register the humidity last night in the 5th wheel. I got a "Lo" indication. I think 10% is the lowest it registers in numerals. john h mkIII Jerb, The metal frame grounds the whole rig right to ground when I push the legs into the ground. I never refuel in the hangar and the humidity in Kansas keeps the static to a minimum. Rick Girard ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:36 AM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Kolb-List: fuel system debate I get a kick out of this fuel system debate...wish some of you engineers would draw up the correct system so people would know what to do...cannot resist adding my 2 cents worth...Our kolbs do not lend themselves to gravity system from a pratical standpoint....so why not just come out of the bottom of our tanks, go to a electric fuel pump, then to a gascolator, then to a inline fuel filter if you want and then to the pulse pump and from there to the carbs....use good stuff for the fuel lines , you end up with a dual system. will run with elec pump shut off on the pulse pump and use the elec pump on take off and landing.....you end up with a pressure system with elec pump on and can fill the carbs....gives you a back up if pulse pump fails...if you use a primer I would suggest thinking about putting that line into the fuel tank separate from the fuel line to get fuel for the primer....small battery will run a elec fuel pump and recharge from engine charging system..piece of cake and works good....for those that fly true ultra light where weight is the problem you will have to go with a good set up using the pulse pump....but if it was me i would get my pilot license n number the plane and go with the system mentioned above for better safety of my body. I now feel better....jswan looks to me like fuel system's cause a lot of the forced landings... do not archive jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up From: "icrashrc" Jack, >From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly. What size battery is it taking to start your new engine? Scott jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > Kolbers, > > After several false starts, today I managed to get the engine started. > Found the problem was that the engine manual listed that the ignition would > be active with the black wire grounded. This was not the case. > > I tied the tail wheel to the pickup for start up. With the initial > propeller setting, the engine topped out at 5,200 rpm . With free air > cooling, the CHT topped out at 450 degrees F. No reading from the EGT, as I > had mistakenly installed a non functional gauge. Replaced the EGT gauge > with a functional dual unit, and took some pitch out of the propeller. > Started the engine again, and ran it up to 5,300 rpm and leaned out the high > speed jet so that the EGT read 1,100 degrees F. CHT temp held at 450 > degrees F. Backed off to adjust the low speed jet, and the engine quit. > Checking things over, I found the new squeeze bulb from NAPA was sucked down > to the collapsed state. Pulled the line out of the tank thinking something > had plugged the entrance to the tube in the tank. This was not the case. I > banged the intake side of the bulb with a screw driver handle and it broke > the seal and reinstalled everything. Started the engine several times, and > I could see that the bulb would start to collapse and the engine would quit. > I gave up for the day. > > I will have to install a bypass to be able to use the squeeze bulb as it is > much more flaccid than the original one. Probably will call TNK and get a > new squeeze bulb sent. > > Overall, not a bad day. The engine is mounted with the original engine > mounts along with bulk head mounts which were supplied with the engine. The > bulk head mounts are very flexible, and so the engine does dance around a > little more than I expected. Once the low and high speed jets and > mechanical idle screw were adjusted, the engine ran much smoother. There is > much less engine mass to dampen out the firing impulse, but with the engine > running over 2,000 rpm things seem to settle down. > > Need to redesign my magneto kill switch, and I am going to change and move > the starter switch to mount on the positive battery terminal. Moving the > start switch will reduce some weight and make it much easier to activate as > it will be closer to the cockpit. > > I was worried that the decompression valve would not work well when starting > with the throttle closed. It has not been a problem, and the very small > starter spins the engine over nicely. > > A step closer to getting back into the air. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269992#269992 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:08 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: fuel system debate From: "JetPilot" Arksey(at)aol.com wrote: > I get a kick out of this fuel system debate...wish some of you engineers would draw up the correct system so people would know what to do...cannot resist adding my 2 cents worth...Our kolbs do not lend themselves to gravity system from a pratical standpoint....so why not just come out of the bottom of our tanks, go to a electric fuel pump, then to a gascolator, then to a inline fuel filter if you want and then to the pulse pump and from there to the carbs...use good stuff for the fuel lines , you end up with a dual system. will run with elec pump shut off on the pulse pump and use the elec pump on take off and landing.....you end up with a pressure system with elec pump on and can fill the carbs....gives you a back up if pulse pump fails...if you use a primer I would suggest thinking about putting that line into the fuel tank separate from the fuel line to get fuel for the primer....small battery will run a elec fuel pump and recharge from engine charging system..piece of cake and works good....for those that fly true ultra light where weight is the problem you will have to go with a good set up using the pulse pump....but if it was me i would get my pilot license n number the plane and go with the system mentioned above for better safety of my body. I now feel better....jswan > looks to me like fuel system's cause a lot of the forced landings... > do not archive > jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan > JSwan, What you describe above is a very reliable, well thought out, and still simple fuel system. Electric pump to push fuel up to the engines pulse pump - All pressure fed, Never draw fuel for any distance with a vacuum. Gascolator Quality Fuel Line Quality Filter A high quality, simple, and well engineered fuel system can easily be done on even the smallest ultralights that use a Rotax 447 ( Firefly )... Something as simple as a well designed fuel system would eliminate a large percentage of Kolb engine failures. In ultralights we cant always have the same safety standards as full scale aircraft, its not always practical for an ultralight... But the fuel system is one area that can be designed to aviation standards and still be small, simple, light and still practical for an ultralight. I don't subscribe to the attitude that some people do, that just because they am flying an ultralight, that they will use cheap and substandard parts, and poor engineering practices. I build and maintain my planes, even the small 2 cycle planes, as close to accepted aviation standards as possible, and to be as safe and as reliable as is possible as technology allows in an ultralight. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270006#270006 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:55 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system From: "JetPilot" russkinne(at)mac.com wrote: > Perhaps no one ever told Clyde Cessna that it wasn't a good idea. > do not archive Russ and Dana, I never said that a gravity fed system was not a good idea... I said that running fuel tubing from the bottom tanks of a Kolb to an EXTRA tank on top of the engine on a Kolb as Dana described is a bad idea, and most definitely an added fire hazard. Dana's other configuration idea, which is to mount the main fuel tank on a Kolb above the level of the engine is also just as hazardous, draggy, and not practical in an aircraft where the engine is the highest part of the plane. Both these scenarios are very different from having gravity fed wing tanks in a Cessna. I personally thing these two individuals are just looking for any way possible to discredit anything I post here, even if they know they are being dishonest in their comparisons and conclusions. If these two individuals honestly did not understand these basic concepts, and posted these bad comparisons in error, they certainly are not qualified to be giving technical advice on airplanes. Either way makes them very non credible posters. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270007#270007 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:13 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up At 10:02 AM 10/29/09 -0700, you wrote: > >Jack, > >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly. What size battery is it taking to start your new engine? > Scott, I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+. It is a little expensive. The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July 4, 2008. I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well. After 52 flights the battery will not hold a charge well. I keep a booster on the battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar. This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90. How it was mounted can be seen at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute? From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Real Lacquer Thinner works well with polyfiber system substitute for the Poly-Fiber Reducer if you have pinking shears you can cut finishing tapes out of your fabric you have Ellery in Maine Mk3C 582 Blue head E-Gear box -----Original Message----- From: henry.voris Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 10:49 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute? 25oct09 Kolbsters, For the past year and a half I've been stuck on Oahu. Back on Maui my poor ireFly has been sitting in a field in the Hawaiian Home Lands. She was fol ded, n her trailer and covered with tarps. I placed desiccants in the intake an d xhaust. But it's still going to be a job to get her airworthy again. At the top of the list is to repair an 11" tear on the top of the port win g. I ave never worked with fabric. I tried to buy the Poly Fiber practice kit ecause (besides needing to practice), I figured it would have all the supp lies eeded to patch the wing. All the suppliers (the usual suspects) I contacte d equired $300+ to cover the HAZ-MAT for the flight to paradise. I called oly-Fiber and they said they didn't have a distributor in Hawaii. Luckily (?), I inherited the remains of the supplies used to cover the pla ne in 997... There is a jar marked Poly-Tack. It's slow moving but crystal clear, so I figure little MEK will loosen it up and it will be OK... I have a small can of Poly-Brush that feels almost full. Also, there is a half ull large can of Poly-Spray. Both Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray require oly-Reducer... I have no Poly-Fiber Reducer... Question number 1... Is there a chemical, that I can obtain locally (Hawai i), hat can be substituted for the Poly-Fiber Reducer? For color, there are two small cans of Poly-Tone, about a quarter full. I read hat it may be reduced with MEK... No problem. There is plenty of Poly-Fiber 1.6 oz. fabric to make the patch. But I have no ape. Question number 2... May I cut my own tape from the 1.6 oz. Poly-Fiber fab ric? Any information or hints on this subject would be most appreciated. Thanks , head of time... Not finding what you want, living out of catalogs, making do and finding ubstitutes is all part of living at the far end of the technical food chai n... Aloha -------- enry irefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269774#269774 ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:26 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gravity feed fuel system - Mike- Dana has an Ultrastar.- The engine is mounted very low, and if only one tank is used a gravity feed looks like it would probably work.- -I think it's the only Kolb model with the engine mounted under the boom tube.- It looks like a dragonfly. - ------------------------- ------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------- FS 447 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:39 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system At 03:35 PM 10/29/2009, JetPilot wrote: >...running fuel tubing from the bottom tanks of a Kolb to an EXTRA tank on >top of the engine on a Kolb as Dana described is a bad idea, and most >definitely an added fire hazard. > >Dana's other configuration idea, which is to mount the main fuel tank on a >Kolb above the level of the engine is also just as hazardous, draggy, and >not practical in an aircraft where the engine is the highest part of the >plane. Obviously you didn't bother to read my entire message. I fly an UltraStar, which has the engine BELOW the wing, with plenty of room for a tank above the engine. I wasn't proposing it for any other Kolb model. I'm not so stupid as to think that it would make sense for an aircraft with the engine at the highest point. >...I personally thing these two individuals are just looking for any way >possible to discredit anything I post here... No, only the things you say that are wrong, or show that you haven't bothered to read the message you're responding to. -Dana -- For every new foolproof invention there is a new and improved fool. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:09 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: fuel system debate At 03:17 PM 10/29/2009, JetPilot wrote: >...Something as simple as a well designed fuel system would eliminate a >large percentage of Kolb engine failures... A well MAINTAINED fuel system would eliminate even more... -Dana -- The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. - Thomas Jefferson ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:32 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: gravity feed fuel system There you go again. On Oct 29, 2009, at 3:35 PM, JetPilot wrote: > > > russkinne(at)mac.com wrote: >> Perhaps no one ever told Clyde Cessna that it wasn't a good idea. >> do not archive > > > Russ and Dana, > > I never said that a gravity fed system was not a good idea... I > said that running fuel tubing from the bottom tanks of a Kolb to an > EXTRA tank on top of the engine on a Kolb as Dana described is a > bad idea, and most definitely an added fire hazard. > > Dana's other configuration idea, which is to mount the main fuel > tank on a Kolb above the level of the engine is also just as > hazardous, draggy, and not practical in an aircraft where the > engine is the highest part of the plane. > > Both these scenarios are very different from having gravity fed > wing tanks in a Cessna. I personally thing these two individuals > are just looking for any way possible to discredit anything I post > here, even if they know they are being dishonest in their > comparisons and conclusions. If these two individuals honestly did > not understand these basic concepts, and posted these bad > comparisons in error, they certainly are not qualified to be giving > technical advice on airplanes. Either way makes them very non > credible posters. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as you could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270007#270007 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel system debate From: Richard Girard Jim, It's the beauty of experimental aviation that a builder has the right to design his system as he sees the requirements. I'd love to have a nice light weight aluminum tank with bungs for bottom draw and water drains, but for now I have plastic tanks with TNK supplied top draw fittings. I've had a broken off flapper valve in a primer bulb put me on the ground and found a split bushing on a bottom tap so I learned from those failures. Realizing the danger of no longer having a balance line between tanks I put in a selector valve so I can draw off left or right tank, or both. I can also shut off the fuel draw completely should that need arise. I put in a Facet low pressure pump as a boost pump, but I have a Mikuni pulse pump, too. I know from testing I can shut off the boost pump and the 582 hums right along on the pulse pump alone. The only problem I've had was caused by plastic debris from a gas can mod that jammed the selector valve. Now I have pick up filters to keep that from happening again. The experiment continues and I'll adapt the system as I see fit. The choices I've made have been driven by the experience of myself and others. All these absolutes about must haves and must bes are just so much belligerent chest beating. Bottom line is, and this isn't directed at you personally Jim, if YOU want the best system for YOUR airplane sit down with pencil and paper and start with YOUR ideas and build the system YOU want. Make YOUR best decisions, take pride in and do YOUR best workmanship, test YOUR system and then, I hope, put up pictures and descriptions on this forum so we can share in YOUR creativity. I continue to learn a lot here from all the builders who graciously share with everyone. I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a guy who never shares anything but his bad manners. Rick Girard On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, wrote: > I get a kick out of this fuel system debate...wish some of you engineers > would draw up the correct system so people would know what to do...cannot > resist adding my 2 cents worth...Our kolbs do not lend themselves to gravity > system from a pratical standpoint....so why not just come out of the bottom > of our tanks, go to a electric fuel pump, then to a gascolator, then to a > inline fuel filter if you want and then to the pulse pump and from there to > the carbs....use good stuff for the fuel lines , you end up with a dual > system. will run with elec pump shut off on the pulse pump and use the elec > pump on take off and landing.....you end up with a pressure system with elec > pump on and can fill the carbs....gives you a back up if pulse pump > fails...if you use a primer I would suggest thinking about putting that line > into the fuel tank separate from the fuel line to get fuel for the > primer....small battery will run a elec fuel pump and recharge from engine > charging system..piece of cake and works good....for those that fly true > ultra light where weight is the problem you will have to go with a good set > up using the pulse pump....but if it was me i would get my pilot license n > number the plane and go with the system mentioned above for better safety of > my body. I now feel better....jswan > looks to me like fuel system's cause a lot of the forced landings... > do not archive > jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:27 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Engine quits in Mid flight -Forced Landing- Fuel starvation At 03:24 PM 10/28/09 -0500, you wrote: > >Jack and all > > I placed a squeeze bulb such that it pressurizes the fuel tank and >forces the fuel out and through the pump to the bowl...all I have to >do is place my finger over the tank vent hole and squeeze... no in >line squeeze bulb or bypass to worry about...Herb > > Herb, Thank you for an elegantly simple solution. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:58 PM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel system debate In a message dated 10/29/2009 8:13:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes: Jim, It's the beauty of experimental aviation that a builder has the right to design his system as he sees the requirements. I'd love to have a nice light weight aluminum tank with bungs for bottom draw and water drains, but for now I have plastic tanks with TNK supplied top draw fittings. I've had a broken off flapper valve in a primer bulb put me on the ground and found a split bushing on a bottom tap so I learned from those failures. Realizing the danger of no longer having a balance line between tanks I put in a selector valve so I can draw off left or right tank, or both. I can also shut off the fuel draw completely should that need arise. I put in a Facet low pressure pump as a boost pump, but I have a Mikuni pulse pump, too. I know from testing I can shut off the boost pump and the 582 hums right along on the pulse pump alone. The only problem I've had was caused by plastic debris from a gas can mod that jammed the selector valve. Now I have pick up filters to keep that from happening again. The experiment continues and I'll adapt the system as I see fit. The choices I've made have been driven by the experience of myself and others. All these absolutes about must haves and must bes are just so much belligerent chest beating. Bottom line is, and this isn't directed at you personally Jim, if YOU want the best system for YOUR airplane sit down with pencil and paper and start with YOUR ideas and build the system YOU want. Make YOUR best decisions, take pride in and do YOUR best workmanship, test YOUR system and then, I hope, put up pictures and descriptions on this forum so we can share in YOUR creativity. I continue to learn a lot here from all the builders who graciously share with everyone. I've never learned a damn thing from the bile spewing of a guy who never shares anything but his bad manners. Rick Girard Hi Rick, I take no offense from your post...I agree with your dual system....I like the idea of people posting pictures and drawings of their system's so it can help people make good decisions.......my firestar had plastic tanks when we got it and fuel oulets out of the bottom....so we just left it that way. I put in a elec pump which is below the tanks....if the elec pump will pull gas using top tank fuel lines i see no problem with it.I know a lot of people do not like the idea of those rubber groumets in the bottom of the plastic tanks but i have had no problem with them so far....they did leak a bit when we flew the plane back to Michigan from Oklahoma but i replaced them and they have given no problem since. The mikunni pulse pump is drawing gas almost to its maximum distance specs in most all of our kolbs where the two plastic fuel tanks are used and located, and yes things must be maintained.. I do not want to beat this fuel system thing to death but feel it is important, do not like to have people get hurt. I know some of you guys fly over terrain that I would feel uncomfortable in a twin...jswan do not archive jswan firestar ll 503 Michigan ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:22 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. I've heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your battery in after a short time. Same I told the ones that Batteries Plus sell are better. I have got the foggiest idea which is better. Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is good and the other is bad? jerb At 03:28 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote: > >At 10:02 AM 10/29/09 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Jack, > > > >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly. >What size battery is it taking to start your new >engine? > > > >Scott, > >I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+. It is a little >expensive. The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July 4, >2008. I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well. After 52 >flights the battery will not hold a charge well. I keep a booster on the >battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar. > >This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90. > >How it was mounted can be seen at: > >http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html > >Jack B. Hart FF004 >Winchester, IN > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:02 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute?- Cutting Fabric Using pinking shears can be a challenge, I got Fiskars and also the expensive ones Aircraft Spruce sells. If you need to cut much get a Fiskars rotary cutter and mat. The cutter resembles a rotary pizza cutter available in straight and jagged edge. Man you can cut Dacron fabric like there is nothing to it. You can do curves, circles, etc. Great for cutting circle pieces for covering the plastic inspection holes reinforcements. A great Christmas gift for your wife if she sews much. If you need a lot of tape for seams, it's probably just plain easier to buy it, get the bias type tape if your going around curves like corners of control surfaces like rudder or elevator. jerb At 03:01 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote: >Real Lacquer Thinner works well with polyfiber system substitute for >the Poly-Fiber Reducer if you have pinking shears you can cut >finishing tapes out of your fabric you have > >Ellery in Maine >Mk3C 582 Blue head >E-Gear box > > >-----Original Message----- >From: henry.voris >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 10:49 pm >Subject: Kolb-List: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute? > > ><henry_voris@yahoo.com> > >25oct09 > >Kolbsters, > >For the past year and a half I've been stuck on Oahu. Back on Maui my poor >FireFly has been sitting in a field in the Hawaiian Home Lands. She >was folded, >on her trailer and covered with tarps. I placed desiccants in the intake and >exhaust. But it's still going to be a job to get her airworthy again. > >At the top of the list is to repair an 11" tear on the top of the >port wing. I >have never worked with fabric. I tried to buy the Poly Fiber practice kit >because (besides needing to practice), I figured it would have all >the supplies >needed to patch the wing. All the suppliers (the usual suspects) I contacted >required $300+ to cover the HAZ-MAT for the flight to paradise. I called >Poly-Fiber and they said they didn't have a distributor in Hawaii. > >Luckily (?), I inherited the remains of the supplies used to cover >the plane in >1997... > >There is a jar marked Poly-Tack. It's slow moving but crystal clear, >so I figure >a little MEK will loosen it up and it will be OK... > >I have a small can of Poly-Brush that feels almost full. Also, there >is a half >full large can of Poly-Spray. Both Poly-Brush and Poly-Spray require >Poly-Reducer... I have no Poly-Fiber Reducer... > >Question number 1... Is there a chemical, that I can obtain locally (Hawaii), >that can be substituted for the Poly-Fiber Reducer? > >For color, there are two small cans of Poly-Tone, about a quarter >full. I read >that it may be reduced with MEK... No problem. > >There is plenty of Poly-Fiber 1.6 oz. fabric to make the patch. But I have no >tape. > >Question number 2... May I cut my own tape from the 1.6 oz. Poly-Fiber fabric? > >Any information or hints on this subject would be most appreciated. Thanks, >ahead of time... > >Not finding what you want, living out of catalogs, making do and finding >substitutes is all part of living at the far end of the technical >food chain... > >Aloha > >-------- >Henry >Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo > >Do Not Archive > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269774#269774 > > >=================================== >rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >=================================== >tp://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >=================================== > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:43 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute? From: "henry.voris" 29oct09 Thanks Guys... I heard from David Starbuck (some of you know him from his days at Kolb), he also thinks that lacquer thinner should work. Got my pinking shears... On-ward & up-ward. Ya gotta love this list... Aloha -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270068#270068 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:28 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Poly-Fiber Reducer substitute?- Cutting Fabric From: "henry.voris" 29oct09 Thanks... I've got a heavy duty set and only one patch to do. Aloha -------- Henry Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270070#270070 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.