Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:06 AM - thinner (Ted Cowan)
2. 03:47 AM - Re: thinner (Mike Welch)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... (Dave Kulp)
4. 07:46 AM - Re: thinner (henry.voris)
5. 08:53 AM - Fuel tanks (Richard Girard)
6. 08:57 AM - A pledge to the members (Richard Girard)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... (Richard Girard)
8. 09:55 AM - Re: A pledge to the members (Matt Dralle)
9. 02:38 PM - Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... (Dana Hague)
10. 04:22 PM - Re: thinner (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
11. 07:03 PM - lessons learned (frank.goodnight)
12. 07:13 PM - Re: A pledge to the members (JAMES BEARD)
13. 08:01 PM - Re: lessons learned (JAMES BEARD)
14. 09:54 PM - Re: lessons learned (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
15. 10:26 PM - Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up (icrashrc)
16. 10:36 PM - Re: lessons learned (Larry Cottrell)
Message 1
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If all the crap has died down, I would like to respond to the person in
Hawaii who needed to know what to thin poly stuff down with. You need to
understand that MEK is a mixing agent that is also a drying agent. It dries
almost immediately but has very high penetration power. You use MEK to mix
in poly tak so it glues and sets quickly for putting your fabric on (for
example). Now, from experience, I have learned that you do not use MEK in
poly brush. It loosens the fabric quite quickly and you have to scrap
everything. (one whole wing panel). I use lacquer thinner in poly brush,
spray and even in poly paint. Now, be very careful how much you use in the
paint because it is very thin anyway. I prefer to use a drying agent such
as 85 or so depending on the weather so I can control how fast the paint
dries for a good sheen. But -- if all you can get is the lacquer thinner, I
would do that but practice on something with it first. It has a tendency to
fog over and make itself dull. I hope this answers your question
completely. I did not jump in when the waters were so muddy with crap talk.
Let us please get this list back to actually talking about Kolbs instead of
boobs. I realize of course, there are others out there with different
knowledge and experience and do things differently. I just cannot seem to
pay such a high price for thinner. My opinion. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb
Slingshot 912 UL.
Message 2
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> I use lacquer thinner in poly brush=2C spray and even in poly paint.
>My opinion. Ted Cowan=2C Alabama=2C Kolb
> Slingshot 912 UL.
Ted=2C
Ellery and you suggest lacquer thinner may be an acceptable solvent in Po
ly Fiber products=2C on some occasions.
I have only covered my MkIII=2C but =2C for me=2C I'd be afraid of mixing
things that the Poly Fiber makers wouldn't approve of. Personally=2C my o
wn experience with PF is quite limited=2C so I have no long term examples o
f how well the fiber stays on.
Have the Poly Fiber people mentioned anything about lacquer thinner being
an approved solvent for their products?
I'm not arguing with your use of lacquer thinner=2C I'm just curious if i
t is safe=2C and won't hurt the adhesion of the PF glues. Is there any emp
irical evidence it doesn't have any deleterious affects?
Again=2C I'm not arguing with lacquer thinner's use=2C but for me and my
limited knowledge=2C I'd need to know 100% it wouldn't hurt the Poly Fiber
process. I'd hate to be buzzing along in three years=2C and the wing's fab
ric fell off.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... |
Dana,
When I reconfigured my US I did away with the tank below my knees and
replaced the second tank, which was about a 2 gal. almost triangular
tank located behind my head, with a 5 gal. Exmark ZTR tank which barely
cleared the cables. I'll attach a pic to give you an idea. Seemed to
cut high grass better with a mower tank mounted, too.
Dave
Message 4
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02nov09
Thanks Guys...
Mike W., I surely would like to use the regulation Poly-Fiber thinners, but I
am unable to obtain them without paying the $300 HAZ-MAT toll (extortion). If
I were covering the entire plane (or a wing) I wouldn't flinch. However we're
talking about a 15" by 3" hole to patch. When I had punched a smaller hole in
the wing Dave Starbuck told me to quit sniveling, patch it with packing tape,
and go fly... (good advice) Unfortunately this hole is too large for packing
tape... Although the photos I recently saw on the net of some guy in Alaska recovering
his Cub with Ducting Tape after a bear attack gives me courage...
Ted, Thanks for the good advise on the proper use of MEK and lacquer thinner.
I do intend to practice before attacking the hole... Beauford was good enough
to contact me off list with advise on selecting lacquer thinner by volatility...
The Kolb List is the best source of information and inspiration. When Five-Charlie-Bravo
and I are in the air again, I know it'll be because of the help and
advice I've recieved from the members of this list... even those members who engage
in the periodic food-fights/pissing matches... Thank you all...
Aloha
--------
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270585#270585
Message 5
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I changed the name of the thread, hope ya'll don't mind.
I would recommend that if you have a need for a tank to fit into a specific,
odd shaped area, you consider making a composite tank.
The main advantage, besides being able to make exactly the tank you want is
that the materials are extremely easy to work with, and incredibly strong
for crash safety.
Much is written about the vulnerability of composite tanks to ethanol. This
is generally only a problem for tanks made using epoxy resin and tanks built
into the stucture of the aircraft. There are several ways to get around
this. One use vinyl ester resin instead of epoxy, two, splash the inside
with one of the compounds intended to seal tanks, and three, don't store
fuel in the tank for extended periods.
Just a thought.
Rick Girard
Do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | A pledge to the members |
One too many times I have, of late, obliquely referred to Jet Pilot and his
posts to the forum. If there were members of the forum who were offended, I
apologize. I give you my pledge that I will NEVER again refer to his or any
other abusive comments in any way.
To anyone considering leaving the forum, please reconsider. While it's
frustrating to have abusive commentary come in over the 'net, may I remind
you that you are in no way obligated to read them. Someone once named the
tendency to feel compelled to answer a question, even a distasteful one as,
"the tyranny of the question", I would suggest that email has created the
tyranny of the post. Curiosity, habit, or simply going through the latest
deliveries to the inbox make it all too easy to have untoward content
inflicted upon oneself. Do yourself a favor and simply delete the post
individually or set up a filter to delete them automatically.
Please do not leave the group. This is one of the only forums where
information is available specifically directed to these unique aircraft. We
have already lost a number of members permanently due to mishaps while
flying. Their loss is keenly felt but their last contribution to the pilot
community is the notice that things went wrong and a post crash discussion
of the crash and evidence left behind. It would be a terrible further loss
if someone else repeated their loss by not having access to this forum.
Again, please reconsider leaving.
I post a lot about my various projects here for two reasons. One, in the
hopes that it will help others, and two, I write up everything for out EAA
chapter's newsletter anyway so I take advantage of the forum for commentary
and review before I write the finished article.
Rick Girard
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... |
Cool looking rice rocket fairing.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Dave Kulp <undoctor@ptd.net> wrote:
> Dana,
> When I reconfigured my US I did away with the tank below my knees and
> replaced the second tank, which was about a 2 gal. almost triangular tank
> located behind my head, with a 5 gal. Exmark ZTR tank which barely cleared
> the cables. I'll attach a pic to give you an idea. Seemed to cut high
> grass better with a mower tank mounted, too.
>
> Dave
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: A pledge to the members |
Very well said, Rick. Thank you.
Matt Dralle
Kolb List Administrator
At 08:56 AM 11/2/2009 Monday, you wrote:
>One too many times I have, of late, obliquely referred to Jet Pilot and his posts
to the forum. If there were members of the forum who were offended, I apologize.
I give you my pledge that I will NEVER again refer to his or any other
abusive comments in any way.
>To anyone considering leaving the forum, please reconsider. While it's frustrating
to have abusive commentary come in over the 'net, may I remind you that you
are in no way obligated to read them. Someone once named the tendency to feel
compelled to answer a question, even a distasteful one as, "the tyranny of
the question", I would suggest that email has created the tyranny of the post.
Curiosity, habit, or simply going through the latest deliveries to the inbox
make it all too easy to have untoward content inflicted upon oneself. Do yourself
a favor and simply delete the post individually or set up a filter to delete
them automatically.
>Please do not leave the group. This is one of the only forums where information
is available specifically directed to these unique aircraft. We have already
lost a number of members permanently due to mishaps while flying. Their loss
is keenly felt but their last contribution to the pilot community is the notice
that things went wrong and a post crash discussion of the crash and evidence
left behind. It would be a terrible further loss if someone else repeated their
loss by not having access to this forum. Again, please reconsider leaving.
>I post a lot about my various projects here for two reasons. One, in the hopes
that it will help others, and two, I write up everything for out EAA chapter's
newsletter anyway so I take advantage of the forum for commentary and review
before I write the finished article.
>
>Rick Girard
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... |
At 10:03 AM 11/2/2009, Dave Kulp wrote:
>Dana,
>When I reconfigured my US I did away with the tank below my knees and
>replaced the second tank, which was about a 2 gal. almost triangular tank
>located behind my head, with a 5 gal. Exmark ZTR tank which barely cleared
>the cables. I'll attach a pic to give you an idea. Seemed to cut high
>grass better with a mower tank mounted, too.
Did you retain the fuel pump?
I guess the first order of business this winter is to order the larger
float needle and measure the fuel flow, then see what kind of tank I can
fit in that space. Where did you get your tank from?
-Dana
P.S. What happened to the plane?
--
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark.
Professionals built the Titanic.
Message 10
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Mike
I have covered many airplanes in the past and some of them working with a
couple different A&P's using Lacquer thinner some ultralights but also
some ceritfied airplanes I have asked that same question to the A&P's I
have worked with and they told me that Lacquer thinner is the same stuff
as what poly fiber sells only for more cash and that they have beeen usi
ng it for years and have never had any problems
and I have many hundreds of hours in aircraft with having used Lacquer thi
nner and I have not had any fabric leaving any part of my plane
I have not called Polyfiber with that question , But what do you think the
y will say anyway They want to sell you as much as they can for a premium
rate
but to get the shine you want in your paint finish you have to use the thi
nner that will let the paint cure at the correct rate depending on the con
ditions you are working in "Temp & Humidity"
I am not going to argue with anyone I think we have had enough of that on
this list lately
But if you use it in your poly brush,spray and even in poly paint well is
that connected to the airplane you are flying ? are you leaving a trail
of fabric in your travels?
Ellery in Maine
Dont worry Go Flying & have a great flight
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 2, 2009 6:45 am
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: thinner
> I use lacquer thinner in poly brush, spray and even in poly paint.
>My opinion. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Kolb
> Slingshot 912 UL.
Ted,
Ellery and you suggest lacquer thinner may be an acceptable solvent in
Poly Fiber products, on some occasions.
I have only covered my MkIII, but , for me, I'd be afraid of mixing thin
gs that the Poly Fiber makers wouldn't approve of. Personally, my own exp
erience with PF is quite limited, so I have no long term examples of how
well the fiber stays on.
Have the Poly Fiber people mentioned anything about lacquer thinner bein
g an approved solvent for their products?
I'm not arguing with your use of lacquer thinner, I'm just curious if it
is safe, and won't hurt the adhesion of the PF glues. Is there any empir
ical evidence it doesn't have any deleterious affects?
Again, I'm not arguing with lacquer thinner's use, but for me and my lim
ited knowledge, I'd need to know 100% it wouldn't hurt the Poly Fiber proc
ess. I'd hate to be buzzing along in three years, and the wing's fabric
fell off.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it no
w.
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Message 11
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lazy & complacent , I was both ,also lucky because no harm was done.
I was practicing off airport landings , landed on a dirt road along
the side of
a field that farm equipment uses to service the field. On one side of
the road there was a ditch
with tall weeds, on the other side the crop. From the ditch to the
field is about 20 ft , the road
is dry but the
field is muddy and wet so you really have to pay attention. when I got
ready to take off my
left wingtip is even with the side of the ditch, with the tops of the
weeds about a foot under the wing tip.
150 or 200 ft down the road there was a clump of weeds that looked a
little higher
than the rest but I didn't think anything of it , when I took off I
thought the clump lightly
brushed the wing tip. everything is fine, until at about 1000 ft I
happened to notice that the
fabric under my left wing is flaping in the breeze. I slowed down to
40mph found another
spot and landed. The fabric under the wing about 21/2 ft inboard from
the tip was slit
like it had been cut with a knife from the front spar to the rear
spar. I have a small tool box
on the plane with some things I think I mite need , a roll of 2in
gorilla tape was good for a temp
fix.
-------- lesson learned----- before taking off when I,m not at an
airport, I will walk my takeoff
run. If anything looks even slightly unusual I will check it out
before going.
Frank Goodnight
firestar 2
brownsville , TX
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A pledge to the members |
Hey, Rick.....welcome to the club! This post was right on!
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard<mailto:aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com<mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: A pledge to the members
One too many times I have, of late, obliquely referred to Jet Pilot
and his posts to the forum. If there were members of the forum who were
offended, I apologize. I give you my pledge that I will NEVER again
refer to his or any other abusive comments in any way.
To anyone considering leaving the forum, please reconsider. While it's
frustrating to have abusive commentary come in over the 'net, may I
remind you that you are in no way obligated to read them. Someone once
named the tendency to feel compelled to answer a question, even a
distasteful one as, "the tyranny of the question", I would suggest that
email has created the tyranny of the post. Curiosity, habit, or simply
going through the latest deliveries to the inbox make it all too easy to
have untoward content inflicted upon oneself. Do yourself a favor and
simply delete the post individually or set up a filter to delete them
automatically.
Please do not leave the group. This is one of the only forums where
information is available specifically directed to these unique aircraft.
We have already lost a number of members permanently due to mishaps
while flying. Their loss is keenly felt but their last contribution to
the pilot community is the notice that things went wrong and a post
crash discussion of the crash and evidence left behind. It would be a
terrible further loss if someone else repeated their loss by not having
access to this forum. Again, please reconsider leaving.
I post a lot about my various projects here for two reasons. One, in
the hopes that it will help others, and two, I write up everything for
out EAA chapter's newsletter anyway so I take advantage of the forum for
commentary and review before I write the finished article.
Rick Girard
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kolb-List>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: lessons learned |
Hey, Frank...Ya done good! pilot and airframe survived another
experience... BRAVO!
----- Original Message -----
From: frank.goodnight<mailto:frank.goodnight@att.net>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com<mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:50 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: lessons learned
<frank.goodnight@att.net<mailto:frank.goodnight@att.net>>
lazy & complacent , I was both ,also lucky because no harm was done.
I was practicing off airport landings , landed on a dirt road along
the side of
a field that farm equipment uses to service the field. On one side of
the road there was a ditch
with tall weeds, on the other side the crop. From the ditch to the
field is about 20 ft , the road
is dry but the
field is muddy and wet so you really have to pay attention. when I got
ready to take off my
left wingtip is even with the side of the ditch, with the tops of the
weeds about a foot under the wing tip.
150 or 200 ft down the road there was a clump of weeds that looked a
little higher
than the rest but I didn't think anything of it , when I took off I
thought the clump lightly
brushed the wing tip. everything is fine, until at about 1000 ft I
happened to notice that the
fabric under my left wing is flaping in the breeze. I slowed down to
40mph found another
spot and landed. The fabric under the wing about 21/2 ft inboard from
the tip was slit
like it had been cut with a knife from the front spar to the rear
spar. I have a small tool box
on the plane with some things I think I mite need , a roll of 2in
gorilla tape was good for a temp
fix.
-------- lesson learned----- before taking off when I,m not at an
airport, I will walk my takeoff
run. If anything looks even slightly unusual I will check it out
before going.
Frank Goodnight
firestar 2
brownsville , TX
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Kolb-List>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: lessons learned |
In a message dated 11/2/2009 10:03:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
frank.goodnight@att.net writes:
The fabric under the wing about 2 1/2 ft inboard from the tip was slit
like it had been cut with a knife from the front spar to the rear spar. I have
a small tool box on the plane with some things I think I mite need, a roll
of 2in gorilla tape was good for a temp fix.
Frank,
That was the perfect fix. Even better than bailing wire!
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up |
Solar panels work quite well as trickle charges. I've had a little $10, 150ma Harbor
Freight panel hooked to my John Deere model 60 for the last few years. That
60 year old tractor starts right up even in sub-zero temps.
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270678#270678
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: lessons learned |
----- Original Message -----
From: frank.goodnight
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:50 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: lessons learned
<frank.goodnight@att.net>
lazy & complacent , I was both ,also lucky because no harm was done.
I was practicing off airport landings , landed on a dirt road along
the side of
a field that farm equipment uses to service the field.
I also had an incident that was much the same, but mine was a landing
on a dirt road in Sage country. It was when I was going through the heat
pains with the HKS. I have a small piece of lexan that blocks the wind
from coming over my windshield and under the wing. It is held on with
Velcro, My oil cooler was at the time ( I have since moved it)sticking
half way under the gap seal at the top of the wing. I was wondering if
the cooler would get more air if I removed it. I decided against taking
it off while flying and landed on a straight stretch of a dirt road that
goes between my house and the Steen's Mt. The landing was fine and I
removed the piece. I was at the end of the straight stretch and didn't
want to get out to turn around, so I taxied through the curved part of
the road to another straight stretch that I though was long enough to
get airborne before the curves came up. At my lighter weight with the
503 I would have made it with room to spare, but with the heavier HKS I
found my self into the first curvy part with not enough airspeed to fly.
Since it was a moderate turn, I managed to drive around it, but the next
one was way too sharp to negotiate at the speed I was going, so I pulled
back on the stick. Since I was in a mush the right wing dropped,
thankfully the huge ailerons had enough effect to pick it up and I
lumbered in the air, just above a stall, but enough to clear the sage. I
leveled out and gained enough airspeed to fly on out of it. Every thing
seemed fine, but I knew that I had narrowly missed an opportunity for a
serious accident, and lost most of the enjoyment that flying generally
provides, so I cut the trip short and went back home. When I parked the
plane in the hanger I noticed that my right wing was sliced in about 8
places, some of them all the way through the top of the wing. I was
surprised that the damage was not noticeable enough to affect the planes
performance. It made me weak in the knees however.
Larry C, Oregon
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