Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - Re: Re: Tuft video (Richard Girard)
2. 03:09 AM - Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... (Richard Girard)
3. 04:57 AM - solid vs fabric leading edge (PCKing)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: another grass strip takeoff (cristalclear13)
5. 07:05 AM - Re: solid vs fabric leading edge (robert bean)
6. 07:05 AM - Re; solid vs. fabric leading edge (william sullivan)
7. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Tuft video (robert bean)
8. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: Tuft video (Richard Girard)
9. 08:15 AM - Solid vs fabric leading edge (Richard Girard)
10. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Tuft video (HGRAFF@aol.com)
11. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: Tuft video (Richard Girard)
12. 01:00 PM - For Sale Samsung I8000 Omnia II 16GB Unlocked Gsm Phone. (fzak97)
13. 04:54 PM - Re: Re; solid vs. fabric leading edge (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
14. 10:54 PM - Trim System Question (HGRAFF@aol.com)
Message 1
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Richard, Herb posited the same idea and I haven't had time to look for any
research into how far an a disturbance in front of a rotating prop projects
so I can only speculate.
I think it has more to do with the airflow coming from under the pod. The
angle between panels on the bottom is at least as large as that between the
sides, at least as measured with my trusty Mk I eyeball, so there is
probably quite a lot of turbulent flow over the aft bottom panel combined
with its narrowing toward the rear accounts for most of the upward flow on
the side.
I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a
little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I wonder if
> the shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have some effect on
> what the tufts are doing. If memory serves me right you have a 582 so the
> prop on the side of the fuselage that the camera is filming would be moving
> from the bottom around towards the wing underside. Standing at the tail, a
> clockwise rotation.
> I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could affect
> at least some of the tufting?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
>
>
> b
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: gravity feed, was Re: Engine quits... |
Richard, Yes, I know it's a fork mounted fairing. Did the crotch rocket
thing in the mid 80's and couldn't keep my fist out of it. Got the
Interceptor up to very high 130's twice before good sense took hold. Sure
was fun at the time, though.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> wrote:
>
> [quote="rickofudall"]Cool looking rice rocket fairing.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> Rick - Dude - you need to get with it. That was a crotch rocket fairing. I
> know, my nephew has one on his Suzuki crotch rocket.
>
> This is a rice rocket. Especially when the Good Lookin' Old Poop is driving
> it...
>
> Took these yesterday evening, Sweet Thing kidnapped me and took me to the
> most incredible Bed & Breakfast you can imagine. The owner's husband left
> her, she is doing the B&B thing to try and pay the bills, but is charging
> almost nothing, so I told her I would help spread the word, here is her
> website for this place.
> http://peaceofheaventn.weebly.com/
>
> Forgive the non-Kolb related, it looked like a slow evening...
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (42oldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271651#271651
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140692_large_169.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140712_large_209.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1140650_large_719.jpg
>
>
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Subject: | solid vs fabric leading edge |
Has anyone built a Kolb with a solid leading edge? The variable airfoil
caused by fabric draping between the ribs can't be good for performance.
Is the difference significant?
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: another grass strip takeoff |
Thank you. My friend, Claude, took this picture just before I took off. Merry
Dawn (my plane) does seem to be happiest on the grass. :)
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271678#271678
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolbdawn_114.jpg
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: solid vs fabric leading edge |
yes, myself included.
and no, the variable airfoil does not diminish the performance. In
fact it does reduce the wing thickness (and drag) by a small percentage.
and IMO likely helps retain air attachment.
I have leading edge tin on the top surface only. It does reinforce
the ribs without the use of additional L struts.
BB
On 8, Nov 2009, at 7:56 AM, PCKing wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone built a Kolb with a solid leading edge? The variable
> airfoil caused by fabric draping between the ribs can't be good for
> performance. Is the difference significant?
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re; solid vs. fabric leading edge |
- My original Firestar was built with a solid leading edge.- The builde
r used 12' wide thin aluminum, maybe flashing, over the Kolb ribs.- This
was used on the plane up to January, 2008 when it was flipped over during a
storm- tie down broke.- My replacement wings have the standard Kolb "sta
rving horse" design.- I inquired to the List about it, and was told that
it makes no noticeable difference in performance.- The solid edge was tri
ed about the middle to late 1980's.- If I remember the responses correctl
y, it was used more for appearances.
-
-------------------------
---------------------- Bill Sul
livan
-------------------------
-----------------------Windso
r Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
---------------------- FS 447
Message 7
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An experiment that wouldn't be too difficult:
screw a rectangular flat plate on the bottom of the fuselage beginning
at the wide spot and extending to the prop
plane of rotation. Tuft check sides again.
BB
On 8, Nov 2009, at 5:48 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> Richard, Herb posited the same idea and I haven't had time to look
> for any research into how far an a disturbance in front of a
> rotating prop projects so I can only speculate.
> I think it has more to do with the airflow coming from under the
> pod. The angle between panels on the bottom is at least as large as
> that between the sides, at least as measured with my trusty Mk I
> eyeball, so there is probably quite a lot of turbulent flow over the
> aft bottom panel combined with its narrowing toward the rear
> accounts for most of the upward flow on the side.
> I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of
> the airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies
> down a little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I
> wonder if the shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have
> some effect on what the tufts are doing. If memory serves me right
> you have a 582 so the prop on the side of the fuselage that the
> camera is filming would be moving from the bottom around towards the
> wing underside. Standing at the tail, a clockwise rotation.
> I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could
> affect at least some of the tufting?
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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>
> b
>
>
Message 8
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Bob, I think my idea is easier. :-) All I have to do it make another camera
mount for the other side.
Rick
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:31 AM, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> An experiment that wouldn't be too difficult:
> screw a rectangular flat plate on the bottom of the fuselage beginning at
> the wide spot and extending to the prop
> plane of rotation. Tuft check sides again.
> BB
>
> On 8, Nov 2009, at 5:48 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Richard, Herb posited the same idea and I haven't had time to look for any
> research into how far an a disturbance in front of a rotating prop projects
> so I can only speculate.
> I think it has more to do with the airflow coming from under the pod. The
> angle between panels on the bottom is at least as large as that between the
> sides, at least as measured with my trusty Mk I eyeball, so there is
> probably quite a lot of turbulent flow over the aft bottom panel combined
> with its narrowing toward the rear accounts for most of the upward flow on
> the side.
> I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
> airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a
> little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org>wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for the tuft video, very informative. Here's a question: I wonder
>> if the shock wave that apparently precedes the prop may have some effect on
>> what the tufts are doing. If memory serves me right you have a 582 so the
>> prop on the side of the fuselage that the camera is filming would be moving
>> from the bottom around towards the wing underside. Standing at the tail, a
>> clockwise rotation.
>> I suppose very unlikely up towards the doors, but perhaps it could affect
>> at least some of the tufting?
>>
>> Richard Pike
>> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271647#271647
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>> b
>
> *
>
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Message 9
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Subject: | Solid vs fabric leading edge |
I found NACA TN 428 "CHARACTERISTICS OF AN AIRFOIL AS AFFECTED BY FABRIC
SAG" dated 1932. Here's the summary.
"The results of these tests indicate that the usual
sagging of the wing covering between ribs has a very small
effect on the aerodynamic characteristics of an airfoil."
Rick Girard
Message 10
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I make a prediction for the right side tufts. They will point uphill same
as the left side, steeper with more power. I have a test suggestion, after
you repeat your tests, add this one or two, low or no power, get the speeds
by descending to see what the tufts are doing. Yes, there seems to be a lot
of turbulence indicated behind the cabin. If that turbulence stays there
even with low/idle power setting, it would rule out prop pulsing, yes?
Herb Graff
Mark III, 246KT
In a message dated 11/8/2009 10:35:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
slyck@frontiernet.net writes:
I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a little
I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
Message 11
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Already done that Herb, the landing shot was done with the engine at idle.
Figure at 60 mph that's what, 85 feet per second give or take, I can't see a
shock wave, turbulence, whatever, off the prop extending forward against
that, but I won't know until I film it. I'll have to think about doing an
engine out landing. If I do, I'll borrow the wife's little camera and film
both sides at the same time. I guess if I shoot for the middle of the field
I can do it without seat cushion damage.
Now if this wind would just lay off.
Rick
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:29 PM, <HGRAFF@aol.com> wrote:
> I make a prediction for the right side tufts. They will point uphill same
> as the left side, steeper with more power. I have a test suggestion, after
> you repeat your tests, add this one or two, low or no power, get the speeds
> by descending to see what the tufts are doing. Yes, there seems to be a lot
> of turbulence indicated behind the cabin. If that turbulence stays there
> even with low/idle power setting, it would rule out prop pulsing, yes?
>
> Herb Graff
> Mark III, 246KT
>
>
> In a message dated 11/8/2009 10:35:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> slyck@frontiernet.net writes:
>
> I suppose the proof of any ideas would be to film the right side of the
> airplane and see if the tufts go down. As soon as the wind dies down a
> little I'll tuft up that side and do another test.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
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Read this topic online here:
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Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Re; solid vs. fabric leading edge |
In a message dated 11/8/2009 10:06:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
williamtsullivan@att.net writes:
My replacement wings have the standard Kolb "starving horse" design.
Hi Bill,
That's the first time I've heard of Homers wing looking like a "starved
horse", but it's a great analogy. hehehe
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 14
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Subject: | Trim System Question |
With about 3 hours of initial test flying completed on a plans built Kolb
Mark III, trim seems to be OK, at least in 2 axes. When I let go of the
control stick, the kolb flies nice and level and the long yarn from the front
mounted antenna flies perfectly straight. I can let go for about a good 3
seconds. This was achieved with both Aileron and Rudder trim tabs.
Except there is a slight pitch control problem. With pitch settings all the
way to the front, (at which point some slack just started in the spring
system), the nose wants to go pitch down.. When set to the first notch, now
the nose wants to pitch up. I seem to need some setting in between.
I'm thinking the simplest fix, is to replace the two hefty springs with
slightly weaker ones, as well make them a smitchen longer to get more into the
center of the operating settings.
So my question: Is there anything wrong with this approach, or are there
better (simpler?) ways to achieve the desired result.
I will appreciate your comments.
Herb Graff
Kolb Mark III 246KT
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