---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/14/09: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:20 AM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (pj.ladd) 2. 02:39 AM - Re: Anybody see a Kolb there? (pj.ladd) 3. 04:40 AM - G.P.S. (frank.goodnight) 4. 06:17 AM - Re: G.P.S. (Jimmy Young) 5. 06:42 AM - Re: G.P.S. (Mike Welch) 6. 06:52 AM - Re: G.P.S. (robert bean) 7. 07:02 AM - Re: G.P.S. (George Alexander) 8. 07:10 AM - Re: G.P.S. (Rick Lewis) 9. 07:12 AM - Re: G.P.S. (russ kinne) 10. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (russ kinne) 11. 09:41 AM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (possums) 12. 11:48 AM - Placard Location (Steve Simmons) 13. 12:11 PM - Re: Placard Location (russ kinne) 14. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (pj.ladd) 15. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (Larry Cottrell) 16. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (russ kinne) 17. 01:41 PM - Re: Placard Location (Jim Kmet) 18. 01:46 PM - Re: Placard Location (robert bean) 19. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (robert bean) 20. 02:07 PM - Re: Placard Location (Richard Girard) 21. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (Richard Girard) 22. 02:30 PM - Re: Placard Location (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 23. 04:11 PM - Re: Placard Location (John Hauck) 24. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (Charlie England) 25. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Darwin wins again! (Bob) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:03 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! important issues when it comes to what Congress has decided about detainees at Guantanamo Bay ->> Hi Possum, A trial to see if they are guilty of anything might be a good start. I should be delighted to continue this off list , but not here. Please. Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:11 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Anybody see a Kolb there? For all the folks that didn't make it there this year.>> Hi Herb, Great video with some superb photography of a very high standard. Thanks very much. My only, and tentative criticism would be that some of the shots are cut away too quickly and that with so much music in the world why choose that tuneless and repetitive background noise. Of course that is probably an `age thing`. Thanks again. Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:00 AM PST US From: "frank.goodnight" Subject: Kolb-List: G.P.S. Hi Kolbers, Xmas is nearly here. I am thinking new GPS , have been telling my wife how i need a Garmin 296. But now that Garmin has the aera series touch screen . I may want to change my mind. Does anyone on the list have one yet ? If someone has one please tell us about it , and how it compares with the 1 or 296. Frank Goodnight Firestar 2 Brownsville , TX ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: G.P.S. From: "Jimmy Young" Hey Frank, I've got the 196, and I've never used any other GPS model except in flight training where we used a 396. The 196 is all I would ever need. I haven't even begun to tap the amount of information available to me with this unit. It's easy to see and fairly simple to use. All of my flying does not require anything more than the 196. I mainly use it for 4 things; confirmation of where I am, airspace avoidance, airport runway info/radio frequencies, and checking groundpeed. IMO, I'd go for the 196 and keep the $ difference. -------- Jimmy Young Houston, TX FS II, HKS 700 N7043P Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272791#272791 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:40 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: G.P.S. >If someone has one please > tell us about > it =2C and how it compares with the 1 or 296. > > Frank Goodnight > Firestar 2 > Brownsville =2C TX Hi Frank=2C I have a Garmin 296. I can't imagine needing much more in a GPS=2C but I 'm sure I might change my mind if I used the new one. One thing I can comment on about GPSs is having to push buttons in flight . If the GPS is far away (40")=2C in slight turbulence it's kind of diffic ult to be accurate=2C and still fly the plane. You're trying to steady you r arm=2C and the airplane is busy making life tough!! I find it much easier to mount the GPS very close (15-18"). Then=2C you can brace your hand against the unit=2C and press the buttons with more con trol. (Of course=2C if I have the unit close=2C then I have to have my reading glasses on :{ ) So=2C after having said all that=2C IF a new GPS unit with a touch screen is easier to operate=2C then I would say that that single feature would be worth the upgrade (from a 296). Example of difficulty of my 296=3B My 296 has a curser function....(a little arrow which is operated by a 4 -way rocker switch). If you place the arrow over something=2C a little in formation window pops up=2C identifying the location). The movement is tou chy=2C even sitting at my kitchen table. I find myself shooting past the s pot all the time=2C and have to come back to it. This feature would incred ibly difficult to accomplish while flying. So=2C in my opinion=2C a 296 would be all the GPS a person might need=2C UNLESS the touch-screen makes it easier to operate in a flying environment. Since I haven't actually used a new Garmin in a flying situation=2C I cou ldn't speak to if it's worth the extra money. Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: I wanted simpler=2C now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=P ID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:06 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: G.P.S. Cursor? My Kolb has a curser function than activates automatically when the engine quits. BB do not archive On 14, Nov 2009, at 9:42 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > >If someone has one please > > tell us about > > it , and how it compares with the 1 or 296. > > > > Frank Goodnight > > Firestar 2 > > Brownsville , TX > > Hi Frank, > > I have a Garmin 296. I can't imagine needing much more in a GPS, but I'm sure I might change my mind if I used the new one. > > One thing I can comment on about GPSs is having to push buttons in flight. If the GPS is far away (40"), in slight turbulence it's kind of difficult to be accurate, and still fly the plane. You're trying to steady your arm, and the airplane is busy making life tough!! > I find it much easier to mount the GPS very close (15-18"). Then, you can brace your hand against the unit, and press the buttons with more control. > (Of course, if I have the unit close, then I have to have my reading glasses on :{ ) > > So, after having said all that, IF a new GPS unit with a touch screen is easier to operate, then I would say that that single feature would be worth the upgrade (from a 296). > > Example of difficulty of my 296; > My 296 has a curser function....(a little arrow which is operated by a 4-way rocker switch). If you place the arrow over something, a little information window pops up, identifying the location). The movement is touchy, even sitting at my kitchen table. I find myself shooting past the spot all the time, and have to come back to it. This feature would incredibly difficult to accomplish while flying. > > So, in my opinion, a 296 would be all the GPS a person might need, UNLESS the touch-screen makes it easier to operate in a flying environment. Since I haven't actually used a new Garmin in a flying situation, I couldn't speak to if it's worth the extra money. > > Mike Welch > MkIII > > > > > > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: G.P.S. From: "George Alexander" Jimmy Young wrote: > Hey Frank, > > All of my flying does not require anything more than the 196. I mainly use it for 4 things; confirmation of where I am, airspace avoidance, airport runway info/radio frequencies, and checking ground speed. > > IMO, I'd go for the 196 and keep the $ difference. Agree with Jimmy. Look at the type of flying you intend to do and equip for that. Even with the heavy duty XC that Hauck does, I believe he uses a 196. It more than meets my needs. The same 4 things that Jimmy points out are what I am interested in. -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://gtalexander.home.att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272799#272799 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: G.P.S. From: "Rick Lewis" Frank: The Lowrance airmap 2000c will give you the most bang for the buck. The features and ease of use is unblievable. You must gone on line and check this out. There typically around $600. Rick Lewis I've tried to attach a picture but something isnt working Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=272801#272801 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:59 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: G.P.S. Isn't it the PILOT that 'does the cursor-thing' when the engine quits? do not archive On Nov 14, 2009, at 9:51 AM, robert bean wrote: > Cursor? > > My Kolb has a curser function than activates automatically when the > engine quits. > BB > do not archive > > On 14, Nov 2009, at 9:42 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > >> >If someone has one please >> > tell us about >> > it , and how it compares with the 1 or 296. >> > >> > Frank Goodnight >> > Firestar 2 >> > Brownsville , TX >> >> Hi Frank, >> >> I have a Garmin 296. I can't imagine needing much more in a >> GPS, but I'm sure I might change my mind if I used the new one. >> >> One thing I can comment on about GPSs is having to push buttons >> in flight. If the GPS is far away (40"), in slight turbulence >> it's kind of difficult to be accurate, and still fly the plane. >> You're trying to steady your arm, and the airplane is busy making >> life tough!! >> I find it much easier to mount the GPS very close (15-18"). >> Then, you can brace your hand against the unit, and press the >> buttons with more control. >> (Of course, if I have the unit close, then I have to have my >> reading glasses on :{ ) >> >> So, after having said all that, IF a new GPS unit with a touch >> screen is easier to operate, then I would say that that single >> feature would be worth the upgrade (from a 296). >> >> Example of difficulty of my 296; >> My 296 has a curser function....(a little arrow which is >> operated by a 4-way rocker switch). If you place the arrow over >> something, a little information window pops up, identifying the >> location). The movement is touchy, even sitting at my kitchen >> table. I find myself shooting past the spot all the time, and >> have to come back to it. This feature would incredibly difficult >> to accomplish while flying. >> >> So, in my opinion, a 296 would be all the GPS a person might >> need, UNLESS the touch-screen makes it easier to operate in a >> flying environment. Since I haven't actually used a new Garmin in >> a flying situation, I couldn't speak to if it's worth the extra >> money. >> >> Mike Welch >> MkIII >> >> >> >> >> >> Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. >> >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// >> www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:43 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! Ted, you're right on. IMHO. Glad you spoke up do not archive On Nov 14, 2009, at 12:34 AM, possums wrote: > At 10:46 PM 11/13/2009, you wrote: >> "We have met the enemy and he is us". >> >> Pogo > He Is Us > . > The announcement that the Obama Administration will try 9/11 > mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in New York City raises some > important issues when it comes to what Congress has decided about > detainees at Guantanamo Bay - for years & do you think they will > really be tried in "New York" - No Way - move to a different > venue,after 6 months - Moved to a new venue after 6 months, - moved > again to maybe "American Somomo"? > > It was very instructive to see what issue President Obama > emphasized before leaving on an eight day trip to Asia. Let's put > it this way: it was not health care or Afghanistan or what ever .... > > The budget news for October, the first month of the new fiscal > year, was simply mountains of red ink, as the deficit for just one > month was $176.4 billion. > that was on top of an all-time record of $1.42 trillion... > > In Washington the ACORN Administration is trying to find something > to blame the Ft. Hood shootings on other than a radical Muslim hell- > bent on killing infidels while shouting praises to his God. > > Since the House passed its health care reform bill in just one day, > most Americans didn't have to become temporary experts on > legislative procedure. . > but this is not a political form - sorry Ted > . > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:12 AM PST US From: possums Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! Yes - I can't believe I posted that to the "List" last night - sorry Ted. I'll bann/unsubcribe myself from the list for a month as a punishment. And yes, he should get a trail (a military trail) - before the hang him. At 05:19 AM 11/14/2009, you wrote: >important issues when it comes to what Congress has decided about >detainees at Guantanamo Bay ->> > >Hi Possum, >A trial to see if they are guilty of anything might be a good >start. I should be delighted to continue this off list , but not here. Please. > >Pat > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:20 AM PST US From: "Steve Simmons" Subject: Kolb-List: Placard Location Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put the 2" EXPERIMENTAL placard on the Kolb Mark III classic I do not want to put them on the fabric? I am thinking about putting them on the outside of the cabin doors at the bottom. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:40 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location Why not the boom tube? do not archive On Nov 14, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Steve Simmons wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put the 2=94 EXPERIMENTAL > placard on the Kolb Mark III classic I do not want to put them on > the fabric? I am thinking about putting them on the outside of the > cabin doors at the bottom. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:52 PM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! And yes, he should get a trail (a military trail) ->> Hi , Oh!. A trail. Is that trial with a southern accent? Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:42 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! I thought that you wanted to do this off list? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: pj.ladd To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:20 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! And yes, he should get a trail (a military trail) ->> Hi , Oh!. A trail. Is that trial with a southern accent? Cheers Pat ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/14/09 07:43:00 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:50 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! Yes, but remember in the south that's two syllables do not archive On Nov 14, 2009, at 3:20 PM, pj.ladd wrote: > And yes, he should get a trail (a military trail) ->> > > Hi , > > Oh!. A trail. Is that trial with a southern accent? > > Cheers > > Pat > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:22 PM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location I put mine on the Bottom of the gap seal, where it is visible to both pilot & pasenger by looking up, (at the bottom of the seal while it is in place). My DAR had no problem with it there, though I waited to install it when he came to inspect it. Jim Kmet MK-3C CXookeville, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: russ kinne To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location Why not the boom tube? do not archive On Nov 14, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Steve Simmons wrote: Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put the 2=94 EXPERIMENTAL placard on the Kolb Mark III classic I do not want to put them on the fabric? I am thinking about putting them on the outside of the cabin doors at the bottom. style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.homebuilthelp.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:52 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location The lift struts. obviously biased BB On 14, Nov 2009, at 2:47 PM, Steve Simmons wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put the 2=94 EXPERIMENTAL placard on the Kolb Mark III classic I do not want to put them on the fabric? I am thinking about putting them on the outside of the cabin doors at the bottom. > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:45 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! Pat, butchers of english are fair game. heh heh My pet peeve is the apostrophe in the plural noun. -and since we are slightly deviating from kolb matters, although I may differ from our southern brothers in matters of the three Rs, religion or pollyticks, I DO love good greens. My garden persists in sprouting late growth of various previous plantings. Mustard greens, some old giant white radish that produce root nay more... These guys survive the light frosts and continue to thrive. Had some tonight. I steam cook in the microwave with a touch of H2O, sprinkle with italian dressing, a little louisiana sauce and butter. mmmmmm BB dormant kolb driver (interpret as you may) do not archive On 14, Nov 2009, at 3:20 PM, pj.ladd wrote: > And yes, he should get a trail (a military trail) ->> > > Hi , > > Oh!. A trail. Is that trial with a southern accent? > > Cheers > > Pat > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location From: Richard Girard Russ, It has to be where the passenger can see it while entering the aircraft. The bottom of the doors works well. It's out of sight when flying and looks cool sitting on the tarmac, IMHO. Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 2:10 PM, russ kinne wrote: > Why not the boom tube? > do not archive > > On Nov 14, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Steve Simmons wrote: > > Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put the 2=94 EXPERIMENTAL placa rd > on the Kolb Mark III classic I do not want to put them on the fabric? I a m > thinking about putting them on the outside of the cabin doors at the bott om. > > * > > style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com" style="color: blue; text-decorati on: underline; ">www.buildersbooks.com > style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.homebuilthelp.com > style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics. com/contribution > style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List > blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! From: Richard Girard On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 4:03 PM, robert bean wrote: > Pat, butchers of english are fair game. heh heh > > My pet peeve is the apostrophe in the plural noun. > > -and since we are slightly deviating from kolb matters, although I may > differ from our southern brothers in matters > of the three Rs, religion or pollyticks, I DO love good greens. My garden > persists in sprouting late growth of various > previous plantings. Mustard greens, some old giant white radish that > produce root nay more... > These guys survive the light frosts and continue to thrive. Had some > tonight. I steam cook in the microwave with > a touch of H2O, sprinkle with italian dressing, a little louisiana sauce > and butter. mmmmmm > BB > dormant kolb driver (interpret as you may) > do not archive > > On 14, Nov 2009, at 3:20 PM, pj.ladd wrote: > > And yes, he should get a trail (a military trail) ->> > > Hi , > > Oh!. A trail. Is that trial with a southern accent? > > Cheers > > Pat > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location From: Ellery Batchelder Jr My EXPERIMENTAL stickers are on the inside of the cockpit along side the seat on both sides Ellery in Maine do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Steve Simmons Sent: Sat, Nov 14, 2009 2:47 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Placard Location Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put the 2=9D EXPERIMENTAL placard on the Kolb Mark III classic I do not want to put them on the fab ric? I am thinking about putting them on the outside of the cabin doors at the bottom. ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:35 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location Russ/Gang: The experiemental placard is to be placed where the passenger can easily see it as he enters the aircraft. If the passenger enters the aircraft from the tail boom, that would be a good place to put it. ;-) john h mkIII - With experimental placard placed on the bulkhead behind the passenger seat. : Re: Kolb-List: Placard Location Why not the boom tube? ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:46 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! possums wrote: > At 10:46 PM 11/13/2009, you wrote: >> "We have met the enemy and he is us". >> >> Pogo > He Is Us > . > The announcement that the Obama Administration will try 9/11 > mastermind *Khalid Sheikh Mohammed* in New York City raises some > important issues when it comes to what Congress has decided about > detainees at Guantanamo Bay - for years & do you think they will > really be tried in "New York" - No Way - move to a different > venue,after 6 months - Moved to a new venue after 6 months, - moved > again to maybe "American Somomo"? > > It was very instructive to see what issue President Obama emphasized > before leaving on an eight day trip to Asia. Let's put it this way: > it was not health care or Afghanistan or what ever .... > > The budget news for *_October_*, the first month of the new fiscal > year, was simply mountains of red ink, as the deficit for just *one > month* was $176.4 billion. > that was on top of an all-time record of $1.42 trillion... > > In Washington the ACORN Administration is trying to find something to > blame the Ft. Hood shootings on other than a radical Muslim hell-bent > on killing infidels while shouting praises to his God. > > Since the House passed its health care reform bill in just one day, > most Americans didn't have to become temporary experts on legislative > procedure. . > but this is not a political form - sorry Ted You know, a lot of this stuff gets perpetuated because no one challenges it, and the people who repeat it never bother to check their sources. I'm not much of an Obama fan, but I would like to know where all the critics were when the same policies were carried out by the previous administration. First, what *did* Obama emphasize before leaving? (I ask because that's the kind of thing that can be highly subjective, depending on whether you follow actual news outlets or Faux News....) It's helpful if you understand stuff, so you know whether you're complaining about the right things. For starters, did you know that war spending has *never* been included in any budget, until now? That's one area of spending that all previous administrations have attempted to hide from the public. While I didn't vote for Obama, at least I can give him credit for having the gonads to put the costs out front. The previous bunch of cowards (I believe that Chicken Hawks is the preferred term) tried to hide the human cost, too, by forbidding news coverage of returning casualties, even when the families requested it. If something really is worth fighting for, it's worth telling those who are paying the cost about the full price. It's also worth telling them the truth about what we are really fighting for, which didn't happen this time, just like it didn't happen 45 years ago in SE Asia. I don't like the 'stimulus' spending driving up the deficit, but I didn't much care for the previous administration handing roughly the same amount of money to banking mega-corps with no strings attached, either. I don't recall you complaining when that happened; why not? I don't recall you complaining when previous administrations, starting with Reagan, chipped away at banking regulations, culminating with the change in classification of derivatives from insurance to 'investment' about 10 years ago, allowing (actually, *causing*) the recent financial meltdown. If you liked what went on for the last decade, why are you complaining about the what's happing now, which is actually just a continuation of previous administrations' agendas? The comment about Acorn is somewhat irrelevant since the organization had its financial teeth pulled (did you miss that?). I, probably like you, don't consider the house health bill much in the way of reform, but it actually took quite a few more days than one to pass. If you're trying to imply that the public was misled, or facts were hidden, where was your voice during the past 8 years? Again, I'm not endorsing current policies, but I'm informed enough to know that what I'm seeing is nothing new. If we want health care reform, it needs to start with the health industry itself, not 'insurance'. BTW, did you know that the previous administration increased entitlement spending ('welfare'), the prime frustration of conservatives, more than any administration in history, even the dreadful Johnson 'Great Society' period? I'm just saying that you should be mad for the right reasons, instead of mad at who the propagandists tell you to be mad at. Yeah, this is the wrong place for this, but misleading info shouldn't be allowed to stand just because it was posted to an improper forum to start with. Charlie ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:20 PM PST US From: "Bob" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! No.... this does not belong on the Kolb list... No.... this will not change anyone's established opinion... No... there is no benefit for anyone...anyone... in a distructive thread on this subject.... But thank you for so eloquently stating the position that many hold..... do not archive preopinion.mindo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Darwin wins again! > > possums wrote: >> At 10:46 PM 11/13/2009, you wrote: >>> "We have met the enemy and he is us". >>> >>> Pogo >> He Is Us >> . >> The announcement that the Obama Administration will try 9/11 mastermind >> *Khalid Sheikh Mohammed* in New York City raises some important issues >> when it comes to what Congress has decided about detainees at Guantanamo >> Bay - for years & do you think they will really be tried in "New York" - >> No Way - move to a different venue,after 6 months - Moved to a new venue >> after 6 months, - moved >> again to maybe "American Somomo"? >> >> It was very instructive to see what issue President Obama emphasized >> before leaving on an eight day trip to Asia. Let's put it this way: it >> was not health care or Afghanistan or what ever .... >> >> The budget news for *_October_*, the first month of the new fiscal year, >> was simply mountains of red ink, as the deficit for just *one month* was >> $176.4 billion. that was on top of an all-time record of $1.42 >> trillion... >> >> In Washington the ACORN Administration is trying to find something to >> blame the Ft. Hood shootings on other than a radical Muslim hell-bent on >> killing infidels while shouting praises to his God. >> Since the House passed its health care reform bill in just one day, most >> Americans didn't have to become temporary experts on legislative >> procedure. . >> but this is not a political form - sorry Ted > > You know, a lot of this stuff gets perpetuated because no one challenges > it, and the people who repeat it never bother to check their sources. I'm > not much of an Obama fan, but I would like to know where all the critics > were when the same policies were carried out by the previous > administration. > > First, what *did* Obama emphasize before leaving? (I ask because that's > the kind of thing that can be highly subjective, depending on whether you > follow actual news outlets or Faux News....) > > It's helpful if you understand stuff, so you know whether you're > complaining about the right things. > > For starters, did you know that war spending has *never* been included in > any budget, until now? That's one area of spending that all previous > administrations have attempted to hide from the public. While I didn't > vote for Obama, at least I can give him credit for having the gonads to > put the costs out front. The previous bunch of cowards (I believe that > Chicken Hawks is the preferred term) tried to hide the human cost, too, by > forbidding news coverage of returning casualties, even when the families > requested it. If something really is worth fighting for, it's worth > telling those who are paying the cost about the full price. It's also > worth telling them the truth about what we are really fighting for, which > didn't happen this time, just like it didn't happen 45 years ago in SE > Asia. > > I don't like the 'stimulus' spending driving up the deficit, but I didn't > much care for the previous administration handing roughly the same amount > of money to banking mega-corps with no strings attached, either. I don't > recall you complaining when that happened; why not? I don't recall you > complaining when previous administrations, starting with Reagan, chipped > away at banking regulations, culminating with the change in classification > of derivatives from insurance to 'investment' about 10 years ago, allowing > (actually, *causing*) the recent financial meltdown. If you liked what > went on for the last decade, why are you complaining about the what's > happing now, which is actually just a continuation of previous > administrations' agendas? > > The comment about Acorn is somewhat irrelevant since the organization had > its financial teeth pulled (did you miss that?). > > I, probably like you, don't consider the house health bill much in the way > of reform, but it actually took quite a few more days than one to pass. If > you're trying to imply that the public was misled, or facts were hidden, > where was your voice during the past 8 years? Again, I'm not endorsing > current policies, but I'm informed enough to know that what I'm seeing is > nothing new. If we want health care reform, it needs to start with the > health industry itself, not 'insurance'. > > BTW, did you know that the previous administration increased entitlement > spending ('welfare'), the prime frustration of conservatives, more than > any administration in history, even the dreadful Johnson 'Great Society' > period? > > I'm just saying that you should be mad for the right reasons, instead of > mad at who the propagandists tell you to be mad at. > > Yeah, this is the wrong place for this, but misleading info shouldn't be > allowed to stand just because it was posted to an improper forum to start > with. > > Charlie > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.