---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/22/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:09 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:50 AM - Re: 503 Problem (planecrazzzy) 2. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: 503 Problem (Dana Hague) 3. 07:49 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 service manual (Richard Girard) 4. 09:57 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Strap (John Hauck) 5. 10:23 AM - Re: Nauga Field Fly-Around - Two week notice (John Hauck) 6. 11:10 AM - Re: 503 Problem (cristalclear13) 7. 12:02 PM - Re: Santa Train (Richard Pike) 8. 12:13 PM - Re: 503 Problem (Richard Pike) 9. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 service manual (Chas Knightsbridge) 10. 03:56 PM - Re: 503 Problem (rayw) 11. 06:00 PM - Re: 503 Problem (rayw) 12. 06:10 PM - Exhaust Pipes (Rick Lewis) 13. 06:49 PM - Re: Exhaust Pipes (Dana Hague) 14. 06:49 PM - Re: 503 Problem (cristalclear13) 15. 06:53 PM - Re: Exhaust Pipes (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 16. 11:21 PM - Re: 503 Problem (R. Hankins) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:17 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! Dear Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:18 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "planecrazzzy" Since your already "in" the Carb... Be sure to check the the "Main" Jets are tight... I had them come loose once... .. .. Gotta Fly... Mike & "Jaz" in MN .. .. .. -------- .. .. .. .. New Kolb Forum - No JP http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/ .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274282#274282 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/hpim1170_126.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:51 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem rayw wrote: > > Dana, You mentioned a pressure test and I did not. Please elaborate. A pressure test checks the crankcase and shaft seals. You remove the intake manifold and exhaust, put a 1/8" rubber sheet seal over the openings, then reinstall the exhaust and intake manifold. You attach a fitting with a valve and pressure gauge to the pulse fitting and apply pressure with a hand pump, close the valve, and verify that the pressure holds for a certain period of time. You do this for both sides of the engine... I don't know about the 503, but the Cuyuna has a pulse fitting on both cylinders (one is normally plugged)... to run the test on the plugged side you remove the plug and put the fitting in the other side temporarily). For the Cuyuna the test is 3psi for 3 minutes and if that holds, then 10psi for 3 minutes... with a caution not to exceed 12psi or you damage the engine. I can attach the page from the Cuyuna manual that describes the test and how to make the tester if you'd like. Usually a leak causes a lean condition, not rich, and spraying the starting fluid on the seals will indicate it as well... but I'm not clear on what symptoms are when the center seal (between the two cylinders) is bad. I do know that the center seal on my engine was bad and gave the previous owner fits until a snowmobile shop discovered the problem (the Cuyuna is basically a snowmobile engine)... all I recall him saying was that "it didn't run right". -Dana -- But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:44 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 service manual From: Richard Girard I went to the Rotax Austrian site. No overhaul manual is available, same for a Heavy Maintenance Manual. The only HMM available at Rotax classes (at least at Lockwood) is the HMM for the 462, 532, 582 series water cooled engines. This too is unavailable from Rotax Gmbh. Here's the only thing that comes close (attached). I recommend you go the the Rotax owners site and get the Illustrated Parts Catalog too. It's too big to send as an attachment. It has torque tables for all the screws and bolts used and schematic drawings with a parts list for each section of the engine. BEWARE the tap tight screw. You can tell this baby by the three lobe shape of the threads. It's a self tapper and has a MUCH lower torque requirement than a regular screw. This is where the IPC is indispensable, IMHO, because it will identify exactly where it is used in the parts list that accompanies the breakdown drawing. If you are keeping this engine long term you might want to consider swapping out the points for a CDI. Last make sure the plug gap is .018", not looks right, Rotax ignitions have a notoriously weak spark. Get an inline spark checker ($2 from Harbor Freight, more money to the Chicoms but we're in so deep, now....) It's almost impossible to see a Rotax spark at the plug and while a points ignition will survive if you don't have a good ground, a CDI won't. (big buck, many flowers to wife, etc, etc.) Good luck, Rick On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 4:55 AM, Dave G wrote: > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Dave G" > > Here is a link for the support documents for your engine. > http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm > > Under support. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rayw" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:20 PM > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 > > > --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "rayw" >> >> Hello, >> >> I cannot seem to find a Rotax 503 repair manual for purchase. Does any one >> know of a source. It would be nice to know things like bolt torque specs and >> pattern, plug gap, acceptable cylinder compression etc. >> >> I did a compression check and got 115 front and back. The plug gap should >> be ok because the plugs are brand new. The prop is bolted on and is >> providing a suitable load. All fuel lines are brand new including the >> impulse line for the fuel pump. The impulse line is 6 inches long and was >> ordered from LEAF specifically for this purpose. The entire fuel system is >> brand new. This airplane did not even have a fuel tank when I bought it. >> It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the engine has 160 >> hours. Both slides are reacting the same when responding to the throttle. >> >> Thanks every one!! >> >> Ray >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274171#274171 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:48 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Tank Strap My question is how to strap to the tray. Those of you with similar tanks, do you use straps and if so, are they metal or nylon. I've seen nylon straps used before on an aluminum tank installation but am concerned that they might not be strong enough. > > Mark Rinehart Mark R/Gang: Aircraft parts supply houses have 1" stainless steel strap, T-bolts, etc., to fabricate normally approved aircraft fuel tank tie downs. That is what I have securing my 25 gal aluminum fuel tank. Two straps have proven satisfactory in my mkIII. john h mkIII Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:32 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Nauga Field Fly-Around - Two week notice > TWO WEEK NOTICE! > > The 3rd Annual Nauga Field Fly-Around will be held December 4th, 5th, and > 6th. > > John Bickham John B/Gang: Reckon I better start heading for Alabama if I am going to get the bird, bug, and barn dirt off Miss P'fer and fly back to Star Hill, LA, for the big shindig. Folks, I wouldn't miss this flyin if I had to walk there. I have attended both flyins so far and have always had a blast. The local community supports John B's flyin and will be there to share the food and fun. I enjoy visiting with them as much as I do my flying friends that also attend. You will not find folks any more sincere in wanting to make their visitors comfortable and taken care of than John B's neighbors. I look forward to seeing everyone. We have a lot of stories to share since our last get together at Monument Valley. BTW: It is only 6 months until time for the MV 2010 Flyin. ;-) john h mkIII Yuma, AZ - Day 84 of my trip west! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "cristalclear13" rayw wrote: > > After running up to 1500 RPM.... > EGT's could barely get in the green if I ran up to 2000 RPM... > The plug gap should be ok because the plugs are brand new. > > Ray Ray, The recommended gap on the spark plugs is .015 to .019 of an inch. When I buy the NGK BR8ES I always have to adjust the gap because the gap is too big when it's new out of the box. I set my idle screw so I don't idle any lower than 2000rpm. Anything lower causes vibration that could cause damage to the gearbox or motor. If you've been running it around 1500rpm and had lots of vibration something could have worked loose as Mike suggested. Also you won't see your EGT and CHT rise very much, if at all when you are just idling the engine around 2000rpm. You might want to check that both carbs have the new style retaining cup, o-ring and clip as described here: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/needleclipupdate.htm Check your choke seal. If your engine was like mine, sitting up with ethanol gas before I bought it, the seal could have deteriorated. Lots of things to check. May you have good luck. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274316#274316 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Santa Train From: "Richard Pike" cristalclear13 wrote: > Very cool! Such pretty countryside! Wait til spring - the hills get covered with white dogwoods! Richard Pike MKIII N420P (42oldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274318#274318 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "Richard Pike" If you have an Ivo, take a little pitch out of the prop and see if it revs up. If it does, then check the points and timing. If the points are worn, or the timing is retarded, the engine will not rev up under normal load, but will rev up under a lesser load. I would say just check the points and timing first, but on a Kolb, they are hard to get to. On the other hand, if you don't have an Ivo, adjusting the prop is not a 2 minute operation, so maybe you ought to just go ahead and check the points & timing anyway... Something that is counter intuitive is that if you have a single carb 503 and the prop is pitched correctly, and then you go to the dual carb setup, you may have to take some pitch out of the prop, because sometimes the engine will just moan and blow fuel air mixture out the carbs when you try and rev it up. When I had a 503 with a 66" two bladed Warp, that was my experience. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274321#274321 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:59 PM PST US From: Chas Knightsbridge Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 service manual G'day=2C HomebuiltHELP offers a CD covering the maintenance of the 447=2C 503 and 58 2 engines An authorised Rotax service technicians takes you through various aspects. "Some of the areas and functions of the engine that are demonstrated in det ail include: One of the most detailed carburettor overhauls you have ever seen - with cl ear explanations at each step! What comes in a carb rebuild kit... where do all the pieces go? Identification and removal of all carb jets and float adjustment Overwhelming evidence of what moisture does inside your engine How moisture gets into your engine! The proper way to clean and re-oil those air filters Where carbon accumulates inside the engine=2C and what components have to b e removed to clean it off! Some examples of the impact of using unofficial Rotax parts in an aircraft engine How the fan belt is adjusted and removed How the cross shaft is removed Operation of the specialty tools for component removal and the consequences of not using them Common problems to avoid when re-installing heads How the throttle cable attaches to the carburetor Things to look for when inspecting a used engine How to replace the cord on the recoil starter" http://www.homebuilthelp.com/New_Rotaxengine.htm Trust you might find it useful. Chas Melbourne AU Subject: Kolb-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 service manual From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com I went to the Rotax Austrian site. No overhaul manual is available=2C same for a Heavy Maintenance Manual. The only HMM available at Rotax classes (at least at Lockwood) is the HMM for the 462=2C 532=2C 582 series water coole d engines. This too is unavailable from Rotax Gmbh. Here's the only thing that comes close (attached). I recommend you go the t he Rotax owners site and get the Illustrated Parts Catalog too. It's too bi g to send as an attachment. It has torque tables for all the screws and bol ts used and schematic drawings with a parts list for each section of the en gine. BEWARE the tap tight screw. You can tell this baby by the three lobe shape of the threads. It's a self tapper and has a MUCH lower torque requirement than a regular screw. This is where the IPC is indispensable=2C IMHO=2C bec ause it will identify exactly where it is used in the parts list that accom panies the breakdown drawing. If you are keeping this engine long term you might want to consider swappin g out the points for a CDI. Last make sure the plug gap is .018"=2C not looks right=2C Rotax ignitions have a notoriously weak spark. Get an inline spark checker ($2 from Harbor Freight=2C more money to the Chicoms but we're in so deep=2C now....) It's almost impossible to see a Rotax spark at the plug and while a points ignit ion will survive if you don't have a good ground=2C a CDI won't. (big buck =2C many flowers to wife=2C etc=2C etc.) Good luck=2C Rick On Sun=2C Nov 22=2C 2009 at 4:55 AM=2C Dave G wrote : --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Dave G" Here is a link for the support documents for your engine. http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm Under support. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rayw" Sent: Saturday=2C November 21=2C 2009 11:20 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "rayw" Hello=2C I cannot seem to find a Rotax 503 repair manual for purchase. Does any one know of a source. It would be nice to know things like bolt torque specs an d pattern=2C plug gap=2C acceptable cylinder compression etc. I did a compression check and got 115 front and back. The plug gap should b e ok because the plugs are brand new. The prop is bolted on and is providin g a suitable load. All fuel lines are brand new including the impulse line for the fuel pump. The impulse line is 6 inches long and was ordered from L EAF specifically for this purpose. The entire fuel system is brand new. Thi s airplane did not even have a fuel tank when I bought it. It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the engine has 160 h ours. Both slides are reacting the same when responding to the throttle. Thanks every one!! Ray Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274171#274171 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le=2C List Admin. -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Li st http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:21 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "rayw" Hello, As soon as I wrote that the plugs were new and should be ok I knew I was gonna' catch it. Rightly so.........My High school shop teacher would have smacked me for that comment. I just went out and checked them. They are far in excess of .015/.019. I did not close them up yet or run the engine but I am going to feel super silly if this is the trouble. Oh yeah.....With the plugs out I did another compression test. I got 112 in back and 120 in front. Seems low..Is it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274343#274343 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:17 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "rayw" Is there any one on the list from UK, Ireland or Iceland? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274357#274357 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:15 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Exhaust Pipes From: "Rick Lewis" I am installing my exhaust pipes and they will have two slip joints in them that I would like to be able to remove easily when I need to in the future. As you know the steel exhaust pipes can rust and seize together in a short while. I thought of trying never-seize, but don't really think it can withstand the extreme heat of the exhaust pipes. Does anyone have any idea's as to what I can use? Rick Lewis (water cooled VW powered) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274359#274359 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:03 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Pipes At 09:09 PM 11/22/2009, Rick Lewis wrote: >I am installing my exhaust pipes and they will have two slip joints in >them that I would like to be able to remove easily when I need to in the >future. As you know the steel exhaust pipes can rust and seize together >in a short while. I thought of trying never-seize, but don't really think >it can withstand the extreme heat of the exhaust pipes. Does anyone have >any idea's as to what I can use? The metal based antiseize compounds are made for high temperatures. I've used nickel based antiseize (rated to 2600=B0F) with good results on my exhaust joints. A ball and socket joints with springs (a la Rotax) might be a better choice, though. -Dana -- If the government doesn't trust us with our guns, why should we trust them with theirs? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "cristalclear13" rayw wrote: > Hello, > > As soon as I wrote that the plugs were new and should be ok I knew I was gonna' catch it. Rightly so.........My High school shop teacher would have smacked me for that comment. > > I just went out and checked them. They are far in excess of .015/.019. I did not close them up yet or run the engine but I am going to feel super silly if this is the trouble. Oh yeah.....With the plugs out I did another compression test. I got 112 in back and 120 in front. Seems low..Is it? Ray, Hope the spark plug gap is the solution. I copied those values from another website but the Maintenance Manual for the 503 states .016-.020. I set mine at .018 and it runs good at that. -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274364#274364 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:03 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Exhaust Pipes Rick I have a four into one exhaust system on my plane that was made for a VW dune buggy engine that I modified to fit my aircraft. It has two stock slip joints between the J pipes and the rest of the system secured by stock VW clamps. I figured why reinvent what works on the cars. I have had it in place for three years before I removed it and had it ceramic coated. The joints came apart with little effort. After ceramic coating the pipes the pipes need to be secured more carefully or they will move around and leak but don't appear to want to seize. The ceramic system has in place for 4-5years. Seems like we had another VW powered Kolb ready to fly a while back but haven't had any reports yet. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lewis" Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:09 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Exhaust Pipes > > I am installing my exhaust pipes and they will have two slip joints in > them that I would like to be able to remove easily when I need to in the > future. As you know the steel exhaust pipes can rust and seize together > in a short while. I thought of trying never-seize, but don't really think > it can withstand the extreme heat of the exhaust pipes. Does anyone have > any idea's as to what I can use? > > Rick Lewis > > (water cooled VW powered) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274359#274359 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:40 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 503 Problem From: "R. Hankins" " I got 112 in back and 120 in front. Seems low..Is it?" Neither number is cause for concern, but I have never seen that much difference between the two cylinders on my engine. -------- Roger in Oregon 1992 KXP 503 - N1782C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274385#274385 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.