---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/25/09: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:25 AM - Sunday Nov 15th trip (Jimmy Young) 2. 06:49 AM - Re: Sunday Nov 15th trip (cristalclear13) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: tanks (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN) 4. 07:50 AM - dihedral & or twist (frank.goodnight) 5. 08:58 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Vincent Nicely) 6. 09:01 AM - Jump start! (Watkinsdw) 7. 10:53 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (frank.goodnight) 8. 02:13 PM - Re: Another Douglas Fly-in (Jack B. Hart) 9. 02:40 PM - Re: dihedral & or twist (b young) 10. 06:52 PM - Re: Jump start! (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 11. 07:36 PM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Richard Pike) 12. 08:23 PM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Richard Pike) 13. 10:01 PM - Thanksgiving flight (Richard Pike) 14. 10:26 PM - Something a might different (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Sunday Nov 15th trip From: "Jimmy Young" Hi group, I took this picture at an airstrip called Massimiliano, located just SW of the Houston metro area. Ed & Becky live at the airstrip and I have known them for a couple of years. Becky brought out a platter of homemade banana nut bread with some kind of yogart-butter spread, and a pot of coffee that would float a horseshoe. I ate enough to completely embarrass myself. I have no doubt met some of the best people around in the world of aviation. If the weather holds, I'm looking forward to the Nauga fly-in next week and meet some more. -------- Jimmy Young Houston, TX FS II, HKS 700 N7043P Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274732#274732 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0518_129.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sunday Nov 15th trip From: "cristalclear13" Jimmy Young wrote: > Hi group, > > I took this picture at an airstrip called Massimiliano, located just SW of the Houston metro area. Ed & Becky live at the airstrip and I have known them for a couple of years. > Becky brought out a platter of homemade banana nut bread with some kind of yogart-butter spread, and a pot of coffee that would float a horseshoe. I ate enough to completely embarrass myself. > > I have no doubt met some of the best people around in the world of aviation. > If the weather holds, I'm looking forward to the Nauga fly-in next week and meet some more. Wish I could be there. Happy Thanksgiving! -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274751#274751 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:52 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: tanks From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" B.Bean wrote: << I have OLD tanks and have been researching a source for new ones. So far I have come up with info that says fluorinated poly tanks are more suitable for fuel use ... but may be worth it in durability. I saw first hand some dandy thick wall jobbers today but they were rectangular (sob) and would not fit. Opinions? BB >> Hi, Bob - I would buy those TODAY, if they came in a six-gallon size. I, too, wanted to replace the original Kolb-supplied high density polyethylene (HDPE) tanks. But not because they were old - I simply wanted larger tanks. Travis announced a few years ago that they began supplying 6-gallon tanks, so I bought a pair from TNK. I am not impressed with how thin-walled those new tanks are! They look like they would burst on a hard landing, if full of fuel. I wish I could have seen & touched those new tanks first hand before I bought 'em - I likely would have opted not to purchase. I'm glad I kept my old thick-walled 5-gallon tanks - I may end up putting those back in one day. Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, in Sandia Park, NM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:24 AM PST US From: "frank.goodnight" Subject: Kolb-List: dihedral & or twist Has anyone tried putting dihedral and or twist in a firestar wing? If so what were the results? I'm thinking about adding some dihedral to mine,but if someone has already tried it and its not worth the time , effort ,and money-------------.enough said. Frank Goodnight Firestar2 55161 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:32 AM PST US From: Vincent Nicely Subject: Re: Kolb-List: dihedral & or twist Frank, Richard Pike and I have both put dihedral into Firestar II airplanes and have discussed this in the archives. Please search the KOLB list with the search term dihedral. The descriptions listed below were posted in Aug 1998. Please feel free to ask any additional questions you like. I have about 500 hours on my Firestar II with most flown with significant dihedral as described in the notes. I like it with significant dihedral. #6349 - Primary description of results #6350 - Comment on cross wind capability #6392 - Comment on pitch control with spring trim for flying hands-off #27789 - #45421 - additional recent comments by Richard Pike Vince Nicely frank.goodnight wrote: > > > > Has anyone tried putting dihedral and or twist in a firestar wing? If > so what were the results? > I'm thinking about adding some dihedral to mine,but if someone has > already tried it and > its not worth the time , effort ,and money-------------.enough said. > Frank Goodnight > Firestar2 > 55161 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Jump start! From: "Watkinsdw" This is an issue that is relevant for those who land at GA airports, and may be only an interesting story for those of us who primarily fly off "unimproved" airstrips (my favorite, but not very available around here.) Jeff and I flew up the coast from KPMP to KFPR (Ft. Pierce, FL) for breakfast last Sunday. The ramp is usually filled with light singles and some twins, and no shortage of Homebuilts (lots of RV's). There are no tiedowns on the ramp, and we usually bring little tiny chocks. We forgot them this trip, but they wouldn't have done any good... After breakfast, we topped off with 7 gallons of fuel, bringing our total load to 18 gallons (108 lbs). We were inside the cockpit, running our pre-start checklist, when a thunderous noise approached from our right quarter. Did I mention that the U.S. Navy has space on the North side of the airport? The noise was a Sikorsky SH-60 "Seahawk" (we think,) helicopter, "hover-taxiing" at about 20 ft. agl over taxiway "Charlie" along the North edge of the ramp. Our Kolb shudderred and wagged quite a bit, and when the helocopter passed beyond us, we breathed a sigh of relief, saying "Maybe we should have jumped out and held her down by the wing struts!" Just then, the second Sikorsky (oops, flight of two,) passed by a little closer, and we really started dancing. We bounced off the ground repeatedly, and weathervaned 90 degrees into the prop wash before we finally stopped moving. Needless to say, we re-did our pre-flight very carefully, and were fortunate to find no damage. Had we still been in the restaurant when the Sikorsky's went by, we'd probably have had to go up to the roof of the building and retrieve what was left of our Kolb. Fortunately, we were aboard, and the extra 42 lbs of fuel also helped provide ballast. This is a heads up to those of us who may encounter prop wash from other aircraft. By the way, a 172 was also bounced out of it's chocks nearby. I confronted the Navy pilot, and his initial response was, "That's what the Tower instructed us to do." After I reminded him that he's responsible for his prop wash, and not obligated to accept an unsafe clearance, he apologized. I'm just glad I didn't have to end up trying to sue the Navy to get our Kolb rebuilt! Here's a link to the helicopter we're pretty sure we encountered: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SH-60_Seahawk Let's be careful out there! Dave and Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274769#274769 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:51 AM PST US From: "frank.goodnight" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: dihedral & or twist Thank you Vincent, for pointing me in the right direction tho find the answer to my questions. I think I need some instruction in useing the archives . The numbers you gave were especially helpful. Frank Goodnight firestar2 On Nov 25, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Vincent Nicely wrote: > > > > Frank, > > Richard Pike and I have both put dihedral into Firestar II airplanes > and have discussed this in the archives. Please search the KOLB > list with the search term dihedral. The descriptions listed below > were posted in Aug 1998. Please feel free to ask any additional > questions you like. I have about 500 hours on my Firestar II with > most flown with significant dihedral as described in the notes. I > like it with significant dihedral. > > #6349 - Primary description of results > #6350 - Comment on cross wind capability > #6392 - Comment on pitch control with spring trim for flying hands-off > > #27789 - > > #45421 - additional recent comments by Richard Pike > > Vince Nicely > > > frank.goodnight wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Has anyone tried putting dihedral and or twist in a firestar wing? >> If so what were the results? >> I'm thinking about adding some dihedral to mine,but if someone has >> already tried it and >> its not worth the time , effort ,and money-------------.enough said. >> Frank Goodnight >> Firestar2 >> 55161 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:41 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Another Douglas Fly-in At 08:12 PM 11/21/09 -0800, you wrote: > >Flew my Dad to the Douglas Fly-in today. He really enjoyed it. Here's a slideshow of what we saw there: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLFLjjTHGSo > >-------- Cristal, I am a little envious of your extended flying season. When I lived in south eastern Missouri, I was able to fly all year around. But since moving back to east central Indiana, I have not been able to do so. Too much snow and hangar doors that freeze shut. But it is nice to know that as the snow piles up here that someone is still able to fly. And as the days go by, the next flying season for east central Indiana approaches. I hope everyone has a delightful Thanksgiving. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:33 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: dihedral & or twist Frank When I first built I built the wing straight, per plans. During assembly I set the wings straight while attaching at the inboard end. Then from straight, installed a 1 1/2 inch spacer under the outboard rib on each wing, again per plans. When test flying I would put the plane into a 30 deg bank, and let go of the stick. The plane would continue to roll into a steeper bank. (negative roll stability) A couple years later I took the time to mount the lift struts again, this time I put in 3 inch spacers under the end ribs. Now with a 30 deg bank the plane will stay at the same bank angle when I let go of the stick. (neutral roll stability) At this point I am only guessing but if I were to have put in 4 to 4 1/2 spacers under each end rib when setting the lift struts, I would suppose that when letting go of the stick in a 30 deg bank that the plane would roll back to level. ( positive roll stability) And would have been able to make directional turns and banks using only the rudder. Boyd Young Kolb mkIII Ps, happy thanks giving to all on the list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Has anyone tried putting dihedral and or twist in a firestar wing? If so what were the results? I'm thinking about adding some dihedral to mine,but if someone has already tried it and its not worth the time , effort ,and money-------------.enough said. Frank Goodnight Firestar2 55161 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:27 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Jump start! Dave & Jeff I have had a similar encounter with a Blackhawk at a local airport. I was taxiing to the grass runway when a pair of Blackhawks did a simulated fixed wing take off down the runway. I didn't actually get bounced around like you did but it was touch and go as they went buy. I did my take off on a perpendicular runway and got bounced around by the churned up air they left behind but I knew it was going to happen. I took my flight training at a strip where guard helicopters were based and they were very aware of there impact on fixed wing aircraft. More than once they would land and flatten the pitch for me on the rotors to avoid problems. It was a great thing to give them some input. I'm in Venice FL for the winter with my MKIIIC. Wow just as the winter was closing in, in Michigan, I moved to summer flying weather in Florida. Planning to join a bunch of Kolb flyers at a Arcadia FL flyin, Dec 5th. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Watkinsdw" Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Jump start! > > This is an issue that is relevant for those who land at GA airports, and > may be only an interesting story for those of us who primarily fly off > "unimproved" airstrips (my favorite, but not very available around here.) > Jeff and I flew up the coast from KPMP to KFPR (Ft. Pierce, FL) for > breakfast last Sunday. The ramp is usually filled with light singles and > some twins, and no shortage of Homebuilts (lots of RV's). There are no > tiedowns on the ramp, and we usually bring little tiny chocks. > We forgot them this trip, but they wouldn't have done any good... > > After breakfast, we topped off with 7 gallons of fuel, bringing our total > load to 18 gallons (108 lbs). We were inside the cockpit, running our > pre-start checklist, when a thunderous noise approached from our right > quarter. Did I mention that the U.S. Navy has space on the North side of > the airport? The noise was a Sikorsky SH-60 "Seahawk" (we think,) > helicopter, "hover-taxiing" at about 20 ft. agl over taxiway "Charlie" > along the North edge of the ramp. Our Kolb shudderred and wagged quite a > bit, and when the helocopter passed beyond us, we breathed a sigh of > relief, saying "Maybe we should have jumped out and held her down by the > wing struts!" > Just then, the second Sikorsky (oops, flight of two,) passed by a little > closer, and we really started dancing. We bounced off the ground > repeatedly, and weathervaned 90 degrees into the prop wash before we > finally stopped moving. > > Needless to say, we re-did our pre-flight very carefully, and were > fortunate to find no damage. Had we still been in the restaurant when the > Sikorsky's went by, we'd probably have had to go up to the roof of the > building and retrieve what was left of our Kolb. Fortunately, we were > aboard, and the extra 42 lbs of fuel also helped provide ballast. > > This is a heads up to those of us who may encounter prop wash from other > aircraft. By the way, a 172 was also bounced out of it's chocks nearby. > > I confronted the Navy pilot, and his initial response was, "That's what > the Tower instructed us to do." After I reminded him that he's responsible > for his prop wash, and not obligated to accept an unsafe clearance, he > apologized. > > I'm just glad I didn't have to end up trying to sue the Navy to get our > Kolb rebuilt! > > Here's a link to the helicopter we're pretty sure we encountered: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SH-60_Seahawk > > Let's be careful out there! > Dave and Jeff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274769#274769 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:49 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: dihedral & or twist From: "Richard Pike" frank.goodnight(at)att.ne wrote: > Has anyone tried putting dihedral and or twist in a firestar wing? If > so what were the results? > I'm thinking about adding some dihedral to mine,but if someone has > already tried it and > its not worth the time , effort ,and money-------------.enough said. > Frank Goodnight > Firestar2 > 55161 Vince has already mentioned this, here's what it looks like - (the farmer who leases the field the airstrip sits in was baling hay that day) N582EF will fly hands off, you can herd it around quite well with rudder only. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) (rebuilding N582EF, cage is almost done) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274837#274837 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1040943_large_169.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: dihedral & or twist From: "Richard Pike" Here's another view of the FSII that shows the dihedral - Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274841#274841 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1020312_large_314.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:29 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Thanksgiving flight From: "Richard Pike" Since some of you guys up Nawth are bewailing the cold and not getting to fly, these ought to either cheer you up, or rub salt in the wound, as the case may be. My buddy Matt & I went flying yesterday afternoon, we flew over the town where Matt lives, the first picture is beautiful downtown Blountville. The second picture is looking toward Bristol and the mountains. The third picture is looking toward Kingsport and the mountains to the south. The fourth picture is west of Kingsport, we dropped down to just a few feet above the Holston River and were flogging up the river at flank speed. Matt was really getting stoked, and after getting some pictures of the river, held the camera out the side of the airplane and went to switch from still picture mode to movie mode. Unfortunately, he hit the wrong button and ejected his new high-tech batteries into the river. So that was the end of the pictures... But we had fun laughing about it on the way back home. Did you know a MKIII will shake and jiggle in flight if both occupants have the giggles? It's great. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274845#274845 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/blountville2_164.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/bristol_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/kingsport_187.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/river_458.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:47 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Something a might different From: Richard Girard Made a mount for the action cam on the vertical stabilizer and shot looking over engine. I was expecting prop standing still, retrograde motion, etc., but not this. When viewed as video there are three loose prop blades flying off, except when I catch the harmonic and the blades appear to be stationary. Camera was shooting at 30 frames per second. Rick Girard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.