Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:54 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Richard Pike)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: dihedral & or twist (Dana Hague)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Thom Riddle)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (b young)
5. 01:18 PM - Another experiment (Richard Girard)
6. 03:38 PM - Re: Something a might different (Richard Pike)
7. 03:45 PM - Re: Something a might different (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: dihedral & or twist |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Richard,
>
> Change of subject triggered by your great photo of the FSII in profile.
>
> Did you happen to document any changes in airspeed or power requirements with
and without the wheel pants?
>
> Most Kolbs fly without them but I'm considering downsizing my Slingshot 800x6
tires to 600x6 and installing wheel pants. I plan to do that and document the
effects of reducing tire size and then adding the wheel pants. Since it is stored
for the winter, I won't know the results until next spring. For what it is
worth, with the big tires my top level speed is 95 mph TAS and I normally cruise
at 80 mph at about 72% power when going somewhere and about 65-70 mph and
50-55% power, otherwise. I'm hoping to get another 3 mph at cruise with smaller
tires and hopefully another 3 mph with wheel pants.
When I slipped a piece of streamline strut fairing plastic over each landing gear
leg of the MKIII, that made a difference, it noticeably changed the trim. Once
I had eliminated a source of drag down low, the airplane wanted to nose up.
Did not do any before and after, with/without tests, but the difference was
very obvious.
Several years ago, changed the original cable brakes to real hydraulic brakes,
and had to lose the wheel pants, couldn't figure out a way to make a decent bracket.
Did not notice or document any before/after cruise or top end speeds, but
didn't notice anything. Using 15X600X6 tires. Removing the wheel pants did
not seem to change the trim at all, for what it's worth.
My point is, if it makes a difference in drag that far away from the airplanes
center of drag, you ought to notice it in nose up/nose down trim.
I have made a bunch of little streamline mods to the MKIII, and am not sure how
much they add up, but it makes sense that it ought to help.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275046#275046
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: dihedral & or twist |
At 08:53 AM 11/27/2009, Richard Pike wrote:
>When I slipped a piece of streamline strut fairing plastic over each
>landing gear leg of the MKIII, that made a difference,..
>Several years ago, changed the original cable brakes to real hydraulic
>brakes, and had to lose the wheel pants, couldn't figure out a way to make
>a decent bracket. Did not notice or document any before/after cruise or
>top end speeds, but didn't notice anything...
Wheel pants are funny; you think they'd make a difference because they're
steamlined, but they're also larger than the bare tire and the opening
where the tire sticks through lets air swirl and eddy around. They look
nice, but many people have reported an increase in drag.
I had them on my T-Craft. Put them on in the Spring and took them off each
winter so they wouldn't cake up with snow and mud. Never noticed any
difference.
-Dana
--
Mr. Cole's Axiom:
The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is
growing.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: dihedral & or twist |
Richard's point about pitching moment change due to change in drag vertically distant
from the center of drag is a good one. I'll keep that in mind. My expectations
for some speed improvement are based on experience with a Titan Tornado
and Rans S6, both of which are faster than the Slingshot with comparable power.
It could all be for naught on the Slingshot but I won't know until I try,
which will be in the spring. Winter is beginning its dreary advance near the Great
Lakes.
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
If you live to be one hundred, you've got it made. Very few people die past that
age.
- George Burns
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275054#275054
Message 4
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Subject: | dihedral & or twist |
Jerb
I suppose I could have been more clear.
In the instructions, when making the inboard attachments the wing was to be
straight and level after putting the cage at the specified attitude, the
outboard end of the wing was to be supported by a brace under the end rib.
The front and rear attach points were to be adjusted in and out, up and
down, so that the wing was perpendicular with the cage and boom tube. After
setting the inboard attach points the only other adjustment was to adjust
the length of the lift strut. The factory setting was to put a 1 1/2 inch
block under the end rib and on top of the brace used to position the wing,
this would set the dihedral of each wing panel. When I re did the set up I
left the inboard attach points the same and lengthen the lift struts by
installing new lift strut end attach fittings drilled in a different
location. I used 3 inch block on top of the support under the end rib
instead of the 1 1/2 called for in the instructions. So in effect I doubled
the amount of dihedral as called for in the plans. I did not change the
incidence (angle of attack) or twist ( washout or wash in ) of the wing.
References to the end rib should have been the end rib at the wing tip, not
the ribs at the center of the wing.
Hope this clarifies the adjustment.
Boyd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Boyd,
I may have missed something but based upon the information you posted
below, it sounds like you may have either added twist to the wing or
changed the incidence. I may be misinterpreting what you posted. I
would think to add dihedral would you need to lengthen or shorten the
struts, lifting or lowering the wings postilion referenced to the
root attachment or raise or lower both wing root to the fuselage
attachment points.
jerb
At 02:38 PM 11/25/2009, you wrote:
>
>Frank
>
>When I first built I built the wing straight, per plans. During assembly
I
>set the wings straight while attaching at the inboard end. Then from
>straight, installed a 1 1/2 inch spacer under the outboard rib on each
wing,
>again per plans. When test flying I would put the plane into a 30 deg
>bank, and let go of the stick. The plane would continue to roll into a
>steeper bank. (negative roll stability)
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Another experiment |
I have this nice little Winter airspeed indicator that I was thinking of
putting on eBay so day before yesterday when my buddy Dave was down working
on his latest project, we decided to take it out and make sure it worked. I
made a pitot to stick out the car window and off we went. Seems to be pretty
accurate at all the road legal speeds at least. It's unusually warm today,
flying seemed to be just the thing to do, and I got to thinking about
something to do with that little ASI before I got rid of it. I've always
wondered how much air is coming up the boom tube. Now I know.
Rick Girard
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Something a might different |
Apparently a normal video phenomena - but still major cool to look at, thanks!
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
http://thedigitalstory.com/2009/03/turbo_prop_photo_phe.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/obenson/2845823742/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/2300288187/
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275107#275107
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Something a might different |
Here's a guy who figured out why it looks like that: it's a small download video
-
http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garyfixler.com%2Fprop%2Fprop.mpg&x=251873050.6
Probably need to copy and paste this to make it work -
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275108#275108
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