---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/27/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Richard Pike) 2. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: dihedral & or twist (Dana Hague) 3. 06:44 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (Thom Riddle) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: dihedral & or twist (b young) 5. 01:18 PM - Another experiment (Richard Girard) 6. 03:38 PM - Re: Something a might different (Richard Pike) 7. 03:45 PM - Re: Something a might different (Richard Pike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: dihedral & or twist From: "Richard Pike" Thom Riddle wrote: > Richard, > > Change of subject triggered by your great photo of the FSII in profile. > > Did you happen to document any changes in airspeed or power requirements with and without the wheel pants? > > Most Kolbs fly without them but I'm considering downsizing my Slingshot 800x6 tires to 600x6 and installing wheel pants. I plan to do that and document the effects of reducing tire size and then adding the wheel pants. Since it is stored for the winter, I won't know the results until next spring. For what it is worth, with the big tires my top level speed is 95 mph TAS and I normally cruise at 80 mph at about 72% power when going somewhere and about 65-70 mph and 50-55% power, otherwise. I'm hoping to get another 3 mph at cruise with smaller tires and hopefully another 3 mph with wheel pants. When I slipped a piece of streamline strut fairing plastic over each landing gear leg of the MKIII, that made a difference, it noticeably changed the trim. Once I had eliminated a source of drag down low, the airplane wanted to nose up. Did not do any before and after, with/without tests, but the difference was very obvious. Several years ago, changed the original cable brakes to real hydraulic brakes, and had to lose the wheel pants, couldn't figure out a way to make a decent bracket. Did not notice or document any before/after cruise or top end speeds, but didn't notice anything. Using 15X600X6 tires. Removing the wheel pants did not seem to change the trim at all, for what it's worth. My point is, if it makes a difference in drag that far away from the airplanes center of drag, you ought to notice it in nose up/nose down trim. I have made a bunch of little streamline mods to the MKIII, and am not sure how much they add up, but it makes sense that it ought to help. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275046#275046 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:51 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: dihedral & or twist At 08:53 AM 11/27/2009, Richard Pike wrote: >When I slipped a piece of streamline strut fairing plastic over each >landing gear leg of the MKIII, that made a difference,.. >Several years ago, changed the original cable brakes to real hydraulic >brakes, and had to lose the wheel pants, couldn't figure out a way to make >a decent bracket. Did not notice or document any before/after cruise or >top end speeds, but didn't notice anything... Wheel pants are funny; you think they'd make a difference because they're steamlined, but they're also larger than the bare tire and the opening where the tire sticks through lets air swirl and eddy around. They look nice, but many people have reported an increase in drag. I had them on my T-Craft. Put them on in the Spring and took them off each winter so they wouldn't cake up with snow and mud. Never noticed any difference. -Dana -- Mr. Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: dihedral & or twist From: "Thom Riddle" Richard's point about pitching moment change due to change in drag vertically distant from the center of drag is a good one. I'll keep that in mind. My expectations for some speed improvement are based on experience with a Titan Tornado and Rans S6, both of which are faster than the Slingshot with comparable power. It could all be for naught on the Slingshot but I won't know until I try, which will be in the spring. Winter is beginning its dreary advance near the Great Lakes. do not archive -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x31 If you live to be one hundred, you've got it made. Very few people die past that age. - George Burns Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275054#275054 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:22 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: dihedral & or twist Jerb I suppose I could have been more clear. In the instructions, when making the inboard attachments the wing was to be straight and level after putting the cage at the specified attitude, the outboard end of the wing was to be supported by a brace under the end rib. The front and rear attach points were to be adjusted in and out, up and down, so that the wing was perpendicular with the cage and boom tube. After setting the inboard attach points the only other adjustment was to adjust the length of the lift strut. The factory setting was to put a 1 1/2 inch block under the end rib and on top of the brace used to position the wing, this would set the dihedral of each wing panel. When I re did the set up I left the inboard attach points the same and lengthen the lift struts by installing new lift strut end attach fittings drilled in a different location. I used 3 inch block on top of the support under the end rib instead of the 1 1/2 called for in the instructions. So in effect I doubled the amount of dihedral as called for in the plans. I did not change the incidence (angle of attack) or twist ( washout or wash in ) of the wing. References to the end rib should have been the end rib at the wing tip, not the ribs at the center of the wing. Hope this clarifies the adjustment. Boyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boyd, I may have missed something but based upon the information you posted below, it sounds like you may have either added twist to the wing or changed the incidence. I may be misinterpreting what you posted. I would think to add dihedral would you need to lengthen or shorten the struts, lifting or lowering the wings postilion referenced to the root attachment or raise or lower both wing root to the fuselage attachment points. jerb At 02:38 PM 11/25/2009, you wrote: > >Frank > >When I first built I built the wing straight, per plans. During assembly I >set the wings straight while attaching at the inboard end. Then from >straight, installed a 1 1/2 inch spacer under the outboard rib on each wing, >again per plans. When test flying I would put the plane into a 30 deg >bank, and let go of the stick. The plane would continue to roll into a >steeper bank. (negative roll stability) > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:26 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Another experiment From: Richard Girard I have this nice little Winter airspeed indicator that I was thinking of putting on eBay so day before yesterday when my buddy Dave was down working on his latest project, we decided to take it out and make sure it worked. I made a pitot to stick out the car window and off we went. Seems to be pretty accurate at all the road legal speeds at least. It's unusually warm today, flying seemed to be just the thing to do, and I got to thinking about something to do with that little ASI before I got rid of it. I've always wondered how much air is coming up the boom tube. Now I know. Rick Girard ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Something a might different From: "Richard Pike" Apparently a normal video phenomena - but still major cool to look at, thanks! Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) http://thedigitalstory.com/2009/03/turbo_prop_photo_phe.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/obenson/2845823742/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiouslee/2300288187/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275107#275107 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:01 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Something a might different From: "Richard Pike" Here's a guy who figured out why it looks like that: it's a small download video - http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garyfixler.com%2Fprop%2Fprop.mpg&x=251873050.6 Probably need to copy and paste this to make it work - Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275108#275108 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.