---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/16/09: 45 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (Jack B. Hart) 2. 05:05 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Rick Lewis) 3. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 5. 06:54 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Roger Lee) 6. 07:23 AM - Re: Tire Balance (Roger Lee) 7. 07:44 AM - Frapper ( gone ) (planecrazzzy) 8. 07:53 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (b young) 9. 08:00 AM - plastic license (robert bean) 10. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 11. 08:12 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Vic) 12. 09:59 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 13. 11:39 AM - Re: Frapper ( gone ) (JetPilot) 14. 11:46 AM - Re: Frapper ( gone ) (JetPilot) 15. 12:02 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (b young) 16. 12:02 PM - Re: New 912 TBO (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN) 17. 12:02 PM - Re: plastic license (b young) 18. 12:02 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (b young) 19. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (robert bean) 20. 12:24 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Roger Lee) 21. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (Mike Welch) 22. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 23. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 24. 02:23 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Vic) 25. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: New 912 TBO (John Hauck) 26. 03:11 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 27. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (Mike Welch) 28. 04:48 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 29. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 30. 04:59 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (Roger Lee) 31. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (Herb) 32. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (Dana Hague) 33. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 34. 06:24 PM - FSII rebuild progress (Richard Pike) 35. 06:42 PM - Re: FSII rebuild progress (Herb) 36. 06:44 PM - Kolb engines (Mike Welch) 37. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Question (John Hauck) 38. 07:03 PM - Re: Kolb engines (Herb) 39. 07:08 PM - Re: FSII rebuild progress (Richard Pike) 40. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: FSII rebuild progress (Herb) 41. 08:23 PM - Re: Kolb engines (Mike Welch) 42. 08:43 PM - Re: Kolb engines (Herb) 43. 09:11 PM - Flight Simulators (Duane Ransdell) 44. 09:13 PM - Re: Kolb engines (Mike Welch) 45. 09:40 PM - Re: Kolb engines (Herb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:12 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question At 08:13 PM 12/15/09 -0600, you wrote: > >Roger L/Gang: > >I placed my thermostat, on my original 912, before they were tagged as UL >and ULS, between radiator outlet and waterpump inlet. Had a serious >problem blowing water out of the header tank cap because the water pump is >overpressurizing the system when the thermostat is closed. How much? I >don't know. John, One way around this problem is to drill or to enlarge the hole in the valve plate. This lets enough water pass through the valve to prevent percolation with in the system while the engine is warming up and the valve opens enough to prevent the problem. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question From: "Rick Lewis" Joe Please send me a good link so I can check out the thermostats your talking about. The link you sent me on this list only to take me to an e-mail page. Thanks Rick Lewis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277712#277712 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:34 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > Please send me a good link so I can check out the thermostats your talking about. The link you sent me on this list only to take me to an e-mail page. > > Thanks Rick Lewis Rick L/Gang: Try this url: http://ramengines.com/ Go to the bottom of the menu on the left of the page. Click on "for sale items". The BMW thermostat is on the upper left of that page. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:43 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > One way around this problem is to drill or to enlarge the hole in the valve > plate. This lets enough water pass through the valve to prevent > percolation > with in the system while the engine is warming up and the valve opens > enough > to prevent the problem. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack H/Gang: We experimented with enlarging the weep/bleed hole in the thermostat baffle. Results were poor. Still got overpressure from the thermostat being in the least effective location, on the wrong side of the water pump. If you go too large on the weep hole, you loose most of the thermostat's effectiveness. Only way to get it to work on the 912 was install a thermostat on each of the outlet hoses between the water pump and the header tank. A roll of gaffer's tape solved the problem, although not as professional as a thermostat, it took care of bringing up the CHT and engine oil temps. Hope it warms up enough to fly this afternoon. First day without rain in a week. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question From: "Roger Lee" Here is a link to see one on a 912. You mount it on the left side before the radiator. No pressure problems. You can also use a Perma Cool oil thermostat for the oil. http://www.flightdesignusa.com/dbimages/big_thermo.jpg Here are two pictures out of a manual. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277724#277724 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_thermostat_199.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/coolant_thermostat_178.pdf ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Tire Balance From: "Roger Lee" If you get the newer LSA tires they now come with a mark on them to line up the tube stem. If they aren't lined up it will shake the whole airframe terribly. Many wheels have marks that also need to be in align with the stem and tire mark. Matco wheels have marks for alignment and Matco wheel halves can not be interchanged because it is a balanced set. If you need a static balance a motorcycle wheel balancer (inexpensive) from Marc Parnes works very well. This balancer also works for the static balance on props. www.marcparnes.com -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277727#277727 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:10 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Frapper ( gone ) From: "planecrazzzy" Hey Guys, I guess the Frapper Map will disolve after the first of the year. I had a map for the Tailwind guys ( Wittman Aircraft )... So we've been switching over to a Google Map... Pretty simple... If someone starts one ... I'd post a "pin" on it... Actually, There are more "pins" to make more categories out of... .. .. Gotta Fly... .. .. Here's what our new one looks like... When you click on the pin you can see bigger pictures than before... http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=116419287136270815533.00047ab503169125e082c -------- .. .. .. .. New Kolb Forum - No JP http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kolbaircraft/ .. Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277729#277729 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:02 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question I need to know if the Rotax 912 has a thermostat in the water system. I'm thinking I will need one in my water cooled VW installation. I have found on line someone who sells an inline thermostat housing. It's a little pricey so I may build what I need myself. Rick Lewis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When checking with the experts at LEAF I was told that the 912 has no minimum water temp. thus no thermostat. I added a heater in my kolb for comfort in the winter, and to keep the coolent temps up in the winter I use some aluminum backed tape and reduce the cooling area. I considered an inline thermostat between my takeoff for my heater and the inlet to the main radiator, but remembered the kiss principle. That would be just one more thing to go wrong. With the thermostat closed I would still maintain flow through the heater core which is not valved. The only min temp in the 912 is the oil temps. Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:00 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Kolb-List: plastic license The deadline for replacement is 31mar you can print a copy of the PDF and mail it with $2.00 http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/certificate_replacement/ BB ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:08 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > Here is a link to see one on a 912. You mount it on the left side before > the radiator. No pressure problems. You can also use a Perma Cool oil > thermostat for the oil. > > http://www.flightdesignusa.com/dbimages/big_thermo.jpg > > > Here are two pictures out of a manual. > > -------- > Roger Lee Roger L/Gang: Looks like this thermostat will require a new coolant radiator tank to accept the bypass circuit? How much does Rotax want for the header tank with additional outlet? Price of the BMW thermostat is reasonable, 18.95. Had a couple Fiat Spyders that used the same thermostat bypass system. The PDF files out of the manual for coolant and oil thermostats did not come through. Pages won't open. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:39 AM PST US From: "Vic" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question Boyd, Can you tell us more about your heater? -3 wind chill in Maine. Vic 912ul ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:15 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question Boyd/Gang: The 912 runs a lot better if the temps are kept up, at least 180F CHT. Back in 1994, on the way to Alaska, I started having engine problems. Plugs were telling me I was over-rich. CHT would barely get the needle off 120F. In actuality, the 912 was running very lean in midrange, plus the cold CHT was not vaporizing the fuel well enough to get a good burn. Gave me lots of problems until I learned how to fix it, increase CHT and drop the fuel needles a notch. I also bypassed the oil cooler by changing two oil line connections. Did that on the gravel parking pad at Teslin Lake Airport, Yukon Territory. Left it bypassed until I eventually got back into warmer weather in the lower 48 some time later. john h mkIII The only min temp in the 912 is the oil temps. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:30 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Frapper ( gone ) From: "JetPilot" Planecrazzy, You should not be managing any type of list or map. You are intent on stirring up shit, mentioning my name several times long after a long period of no problems. It is very clear that you get off on stirring up problems where there are none, and then having all your friends jumping in support you. You two are just desperate for attention and will obviously do anything to be accepted as part of the little " Clique " here. Given your reference to me in your signature, and you continual posting of garbage like this, it is very obvious who the troublemakers here are. planecrazzzy wrote: > > > It's "NORMAL" at the matronics site... > > What happened to the idiot "JP".... ??? > > Not that I want to talk with him. > > I wonder if Matt finally "banned" him.... > > Probably not... He'd just come back... > > can't disguise that attitude... > > Maybe he FINALLY took the hint that he just wasn't wanted.... > . > . > Just found it curious... > Gotta Fly... " > > > -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277761#277761 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Frapper ( gone ) From: "JetPilot" And to answer your question Mike, the reason I don't frequent here as much as I used to is because most of the very talented and good people have left this list and gone elsewhere. Anyone with any intellect and honesty sees how a couple people here post offensive things and try to stir up shit, and how the rest of the little gain then jump in and blame me for all the problems here. People do see hypocrisy and double standards practiced and supported on the Kolb list, and leave. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277762#277762 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:07 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question John, you are exactly right. Rotax does not publish a minimum cylinder head temps,, but it does work much better when it gets properly warmed up. My heater works better when it gets warmed up as well. Instead of bypassing the oil cooler, I just run tape over it, between 20 and 40 deg outside temps, I put tape over the front,,, and below 20 I have to tape front and back. The main radiator gets tape over =BD to 2/3 depending on the outside temps. Boyd Young MKIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boyd/Gang: The 912 runs a lot better if the temps are kept up, at least 180F CHT. Back in 1994, on the way to Alaska, I started having engine problems. Plugs were telling me I was over-rich. CHT would barely get the needle off 120F. In actuality, the 912 was running very lean in midrange, plus the cold CHT was not vaporizing the fuel well enough to get a good burn. Gave me lots of problems until I learned how to fix it, increase CHT and drop the fuel needles a notch. I also bypassed the oil cooler by changing two oil line connections. Did that on the gravel parking pad at Teslin Lake Airport, Yukon Territory. Left it bypassed until I eventually got back into warmer weather in the lower 48 some time later. john h mkIII The only min temp in the 912 is the oil temps. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:08 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New 912 TBO From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" Hauck wrote: << Rotax has announced new TBO, by serial number, for 912 series engines: >> John / All - In reading the referenced Rotax Service Bulletin, I notice that the 912UL is clearly absent from the TBO extension discussion. They mention the 912A and 912F (certificated engines) and the 912S are given TBO extensions, assuming that all the specified Service Bulletins have been accomplished. You think this means that the 912UL is still stuck at 1200 hours TBO? Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul, in Sandia Park, NM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:19 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: plastic license The deadline for replacement is 31mar you can print a copy of the PDF and mail it with $2.00 http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/certificate_re placement/ BB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The $2.00 is not necessary if your pilot certificate has your social security number on it. Boyd Young Mkiii ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:26 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question Boyd, Can you tell us more about your heater? -3 wind chill in Maine. Vic 912ul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I have any photos. but I will try and get some next time I go out. In my radiator hoses just before the main radiator I cut in 2 tees 1" X 5/8". Connected to the tees I routed some heater hose into the back area behind the fuel tank connected to a small heater core. I built a copper wire frame around the heater core, on one side I built it to fit a computer cooling fan, on the other side I built an adapter to fit a 2" duct. I covered the frame work with poly fiber. The duct runs to the front of the nose cone. My attempt was to warm my feet and have the air pull all the way back through the cabin back to the heater. There is not enough heat to drive you out but it will take the edge off. On my first trip I took off with the outside temps around 20 deg F and the temps were around 10 when I landed. I thought it was not working till I opened the doors and the outside air rushed in. it would probably work better if all the exterior surfaces had some type of insulation. I run the fan summer and winter. In the summer it helps with the cooling of the engine, and I open up the area behind the doors to help with ventilation, and in winter I have to tape up the main radiator to keep the heat up. The tees and heater core I picked up at Napa auto parts. I had to go through their heater core catalog to find one that looked like it would work. ( both inlet and outlet had to point the same direction, it had to fit in the available space, and be light weight) I soldered the copper frame work to the header tanks. but you could get an aluminum core and build some aluminum housing, you would have to come up with some type of resilient mounting system to keep from rubbing a hole through. I cant remember if the tees were in stock or they had to be ordered. The heater core only took a few days to order. A higher capacity fan would also help in the winter. Boyd Young MKIII Utah ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question From: robert bean I have an inline thermostat on my suzuki. It has to be pushed into a chunk of (large) radiator hose. Carquest CTH31179 This was the recommended way to go from the conversion redrive supplier. I had a problem initially as the volume capacity was too small. Carquest evidently had two suppliers for this part and the one I got first wasn't up to the task. I went back and bought another which turned out to have a larger opening which worked ok. BB On 16, Dec 2009, at 10:27 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > > >> Here is a link to see one on a 912. You mount it on the left side before the radiator. No pressure problems. You can also use a Perma Cool oil thermostat for the oil. >> >> http://www.flightdesignusa.com/dbimages/big_thermo.jpg >> >> >> Here are two pictures out of a manual. >> >> -------- >> Roger Lee > > > Roger L/Gang: > > Looks like this thermostat will require a new coolant radiator tank to accept the bypass circuit? How much does Rotax want for the header tank with additional outlet? > > Price of the BMW thermostat is reasonable, 18.95. > > Had a couple Fiat Spyders that used the same thermostat bypass system. > > The PDF files out of the manual for coolant and oil thermostats did not come through. Pages won't open. > > john h > mkIII > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:20 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question From: "Roger Lee" Hi John H, I don't believe you need any different coolant tank. It is only a difference in plumbing. If there is anyone around you with a Flight Design CTLS you could stop by and take a look at theirs. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277771#277771 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:03 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Bob=2C Rick Lewis & others=2C I also have the inline coolant thermostat=2C for my GEO's coolant system. I chose to use a complete system from a big engined road bike (Honda Inte rstate=2C IIRC=2C but I'm not exactly certain which brand). I got the wate rneck/thermostat housing (which is an inline arrangement)=2C the coolant re covery tank=2C the radiator=2C and the thermostatically controlled electric fan. One of the reasons I specifically chose this particular system is that th e waterneck housing ALSO has the radiator cap=2C for easy fluid filling and monitoring. Now=2C for you folks that have Rotax 912 engines=2C you're likely going t o stay with the factory parts=2C which is perfectly fine. But=2C for those of us with "alternate" water cooled engines=2C you just about can't beat t he selection of high quality motorcycle choices. Of course=2C you're going to want to do a lot of research first=2C and ma ke sure you size the coolant system correctly. In other words=2C make sure you get the equipment sized for your special needs. I got a package deal from a totaled highway cruiser (1400cc or so) (on eB ay). Radiator size was what the redrive maker recommended. All the parts looked like they were less than a year old....price..about $45-$50 for ever ything=2C if I'm not mistaken. It made for a very professional installatio n=2C if I do say so myself!! I haven't installed the electric cooling fan yet. I'll monitor the temps first=2C then make a decision about the fan. It would be an easy mounting job=2C since it came on that radiator=2C and then just wire it in. One more quick note=3B an inline thermostat HAS to be properly located t o do any good. You can't just put it anywhere. It needs to be as close to the block as possible. The temperature sensitive side has to feel the hea ted block coolant in order to open. If the thermostat sits away from the b lock=2C there will not be enough heat passing over the spring to open the u nit! What you'll have is a hot engine with the thermostat acting like a plu g in the system=2C and NEVER opening up. Mike Welch MkIII CX > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > From: slyck@frontiernet.net > Date: Wed=2C 16 Dec 2009 14:08:19 -0500 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > > I have an inline thermostat on my suzuki. It has to be pushed into a chun k of (large) radiator hose. > Carquest CTH31179 > This was the recommended way to go from the conversion redrive supplier. > I had a problem initially as the volume capacity was too small. > Carquest evidently had two suppliers for this part and the one I got firs t wasn't up to the task. > I went back and bought another which turned out to have a larger opening which worked ok. > BB > > On 16=2C Dec 2009=2C at 10:27 AM=2C John Hauck wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Here is a link to see one on a 912. You mount it on the left side befo re the radiator. No pressure problems. You can also use a Perma Cool oil th ermostat for the oil. > >> > >> http://www.flightdesignusa.com/dbimages/big_thermo.jpg > >> > >> > >> Here are two pictures out of a manual. > >> > >> -------- > >> Roger Lee > > > > > > Roger L/Gang: > > > > Looks like this thermostat will require a new coolant radiator tank to accept the bypass circuit? How much does Rotax want for the header tank wit h additional outlet? > > > > Price of the BMW thermostat is reasonable=2C 18.95. > > > > Had a couple Fiat Spyders that used the same thermostat bypass system. > > > > The PDF files out of the manual for coolant and oil thermostats did not come through. Pages won't open. > > > > john h > > mkIII > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:04 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > I don't believe you need any different coolant tank. It is only a > difference in plumbing. If there is anyone around you with a Flight Design > CTLS you could stop by and take a look at theirs. > > -------- > Roger Lee No Flight Designs in my neck of the woods. Do you have a good url for the pdf files that show the coolant and thermostat installations? I'm guessing, but they probably come off the 1" hose between the header tank and the radiator inlet with a T to the side barb on the thermostat, which is installed in the radiator outlet hose. That would let the water pump circulate water, bypassing the radiator, and not creating additional pressure because of a restriction caused by a "normal" two opening thermostat housing. That was my problem, water pump overpowering the header tank cap because the thermostat restricting flow. I think my Cummins Diesel uses the same system to recirculate and bypass the radiator during warm-up. If I keep thinking, I may have to splurge for the BMW thermostat, 18.95. However, would a 180F thermostat give me a minimum of 190F oil temp? That was the problem with the engine oil thermostat. Worked great up to its rated temperature, which was less than the 190F required to burn off condensation in the 912. That is why I use the same system most of us use by adjusting temps with gaffer's tape on the radiator. Only have to set the adjustment twice a year. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:58 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike W/Gang: Correct me if I am wrong. I believe that is why there is a bleed hole in the thermostat, to allow water to continuously circulate so the thermostat can read the temp and react. john h - Got a good flight in this afternoon. I feel better now. Wind was agressive and hard to predict what it would be doing for more than a few seconds at a time, especially on short, short final. This old pilot is definitely rusty. The 912ULS is screaming with the new Titan Exhaust System. I am happy! mkIII - 2,983.1 hours 912ULS - 414.6 hours One more quick note; an inline thermostat HAS to be properly located to do any good. You can't just put it anywhere. It needs to be as close to the block as possible. The temperature sensitive side has to feel the heated block coolant in order to open. If the thermostat sits away from the block, there will not be enough heat passing over the spring to open the unit! What you'll have is a hot engine with the thermostat acting like a plug in the system, and NEVER opening up. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:05 PM PST US From: "Vic" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question Boyd, Does that mean you dont need a shut off to the main radiator when you want heat? Would you get more heat or restrict normal coolant flow too much? Vic ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:21 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: New 912 TBO Dennis K/Gang: Depends on what your Serial Number is. Could be 1,000; 1,500; or 2,000 hours. TBO is spelled out in this reference for the uncertified versions: http://www.rotax-owner.com/SI_TB_Info/ServiceB/SB-912-057-UL.pdf My feelings are, TBO's do not affect me and my engine because we are uncertified, experimental/homebuilt. I am going to run my engine until I get ready to tear it down. The TBO is primarily for Certified Engines. They must comply with it. TBO doesn't mean the engine is going to last until the time designated. It is a figure Rotax has gleaned from the hours us users are putting on our engines. We are the operational testers for Rotax. My own personal feelings about TBO's. john h mkIII You think this means that the 912UL is still stuck at 1200 hours TBO? Dennis Kirby ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Vic I am just installing a 12500 BTU heater in My Mk3 stop in and check it out Ellery -----Original Message----- From: Vic Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 11:06 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question Boyd, Can you tell us more about your heater? -3 wind chill in Maine. Vic 912ul ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:46 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question John H=2C Yes=2C you are correct about the little bleed hole. But=2C if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block=2C you're going to get a "cert ain" amount of cool down. How far is "too" far=2C and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But=2C si nce this is "experimental"=2C I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer tain their design worked as they planned. As an example of what I'm getting at=3B normally=2C when you start your car/truck/tractor=2C the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets t o the thermostat=2C opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice=2C a nd has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. But let's say=2C for the sake of argument=2C you have to locate that ther mostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?")=3B No=2C the question is=3B how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might b e too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger=2C to allow for " extra" warm coolant flow=2C if we engineer a new system=2C we definitely wa nt to make sure it works. Mike W From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike W/Gang: Correct me if I am wrong. I believe that is why there is a bleed hole in t he thermostat=2C to allow water to continuously circulate so the thermostat can read the temp and react. john h - Got a good flight in this afternoon. I feel better now. Wind was agressive and hard to predict what it would be doing for more than a few s econds at a time=2C especially on short=2C short final. This old pilot is definitely rusty. The 912ULS is screaming with the new Titan Exhaust Syste m. I am happy! mkIII - 2=2C983.1 hours 912ULS - 414.6 hours One more quick note=3B an inline thermostat HAS to be properly located to do any good. You can't just put it anywhere. It needs to be as close t o the block as possible. The temperature sensitive side has to feel the he ated block coolant in order to open. If the thermostat sits away from the block=2C there will not be enough heat passing over the spring to open the unit! What you'll have is a hot engine with the thermostat acting like a pl ug in the system=2C and NEVER opening up. Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:50 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike I have a oil thermostat on my VW engine that looks like it has a automotive water thermostat in it. The unit has four ports. When the oil is cold the oil is allowed to loop back to the engine without going to the cooler but some does go through the cooler. When the oil gets to app. 180-185 degrees the thermostat closes the internal loop back port. The design is fairly fail safe but doesn't work as well as I would like in keeping my oil temps as high as I would like. The unit is fairly cheep and might work for you as a water thermostat if you had one for each head. Seems like it has 3/8 or 1/2 inch hose barbs included with the kit. I don't remember the name or cost but the units are sold by VW after market suppliers. Some day I'm going to take the unit apart and go to a automotive store with just the thermostat to find a higher temp thermostat for it. I wrote the manufacture asking for a higher temp thermostat. No luck. The oil temps rise quickly but only go to 180 degrees on a cool day. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question John H, Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to get a "certain" amount of cool down. How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) would want to make certain their design worked as they planned. As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we definitely want to make sure it works. Mike W ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com To: kolb-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:20:44 -0600 Mike W/Gang: Correct me if I am wrong. I believe that is why there is a bleed hole in the thermostat, to allow water to continuously circulate so the thermostat can read the temp and react. john h - Got a good flight in this afternoon. I feel better now. Wind was agressive and hard to predict what it would be doing for more than a few seconds at a time, especially on short, short final. This old pilot is definitely rusty. The 912ULS is screaming with the new Titan Exhaust System. I am happy! mkIII - 2,983.1 hours 912ULS - 414.6 hours One more quick note; an inline thermostat HAS to be properly located to do any good. You can't just put it anywhere. It needs to be as close to the block as possible. The temperature sensitive side has to feel the heated block coolant in order to open. If the thermostat sits away from the block, there will not be enough heat passing over the spring to open the unit! What you'll have is a hot engine with the thermostat acting like a plug in the system, and NEVER opening up. Mike Welch lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Hotmail: Trusted email with powerf/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:07 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike W/Gang: Jack H suggested making the bleed hole larger, when I was trying to explain the problems I encountered adapting an inline thermostat on my first 912. The reason for that was to attempt to overcome the overpressure being caused by the restriction in the return line, the header tank with cap, and the water pump. I drilled larger holes to allow some water pump pressure relief, but that reduced the thermostats effectiveness. Was going around in circles. The orginal 350 Chevy thermostat got the temps up fast, but the original 1/8" bleed hole wasn't enough to keep the water pump from blowing water out the cap. If I could have put the thermostat between the water pump and the header tank, it would have worked perfectly. If the water pump had one outlet instead of four, I'd still be using the thermostat. Today I could get a little over 180F engine oil temp, and about 175F CHT, climbing wide open throttle to 3,000 feet msl. OAT was 50F. Crusing 5,200 rpm showed 180F engine oil temp. Engine is running a lot cooler with the Titan Exhaust System. This will work out good next Spring and Summer when the OAT is at the top of the scale. I understand what you are getting at. The thermostat will react sooner the closer it is to the heat source. When we experiment we hope it works. Usually, we have to do a lot of trial and error exercises until we get it the way we want it, or the way it should be. ;-) john h mklIII As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we definitely want to make sure it works. Mike W ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question From: "Roger Lee" John, Here are a couple of pictures. Two of the coolant thermostat and one with an oil thermostat. These only go to 180F and won't take an engine to 200F. 180F is about the highest on the market. The tape is less expensive and you can tape until you get your desired temp. These are not cheap either. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277803#277803 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oil_thermostat_124.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/coolant_thermostat_1_157.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/coolant_thermostat_629.jpg ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:43 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...three and four cyl...) At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >John H, > > Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you > stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to > get a "certain" amount of cool down. > How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not > sure. But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) > would want to make certain their design worked as they planned. > > As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start > your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the > warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly > constant practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. > But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that > thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the > question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how > long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to > the thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. > > As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow > for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we > definitely want to make sure it works. > >Mike W > > >---------- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:34 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question At 06:49 PM 12/16/2009, Mike Welch wrote: >...if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going >to get a "certain" amount of cool down. > ...say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that thermostat > 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not > "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how long will that small > bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? This has nothing to do with Kolbs or even Rotaxes unless somebody wants to try something really different, but a few years back I owned a couple of Fiat Spiders. Rather than the conventional thermostat in the cylinder head they had a rather strange 3 way thermostat mounted in a junction of three hoses. With the engine cold, the coolant circulated through the thermostat and directly back to the engine. As it warmed up, the flow gradually got diverted through the radiator and returned to the engine via a fourth hose... there was a tee on the cylinder head where the thermostat would normally be; one hose went to the thermostat and the other to the radiator. I presume this was to allow the entire engine to warm up more evenly than it would if there was no circulation, or circulation through only a tiny bleed hole. The only drawback was that the thermostat was a rather expensive $30 deal instead of a cheap $1.99 plus a gasket. I do know that they changed it at one point to a more conventional thermostat in the cylinder head, but it must not have worked as well because after a year or two they changed it back to the 3 way version... I had the 3 way on my 1971, a standard thermostat on a 1974 parts car, and the 3 way again on a 1977. The engine was strange in other ways as well... Italians just don't approach machinery in the same way as do Americans or Japanese or even Germans! -Dana do not archive -- A day without sunshine is like, night. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:34 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Rick N/Gang: That's what my 912 was doing today. Once in the air the temp rose right up to 180 and stopped. I may try bi-passing the oil cooler by swapping lines and see how she performs in this weather. Never done it with the 912ULS, only the 912UL. The ULS runs a lot hotter than the UL. If this engine doesn't run too high, that would solve my cold weather flying time without installing a thermostat or taping the radiator. john h mkIII Some day I'm going to take the unit apart and go to a automotive store with just the thermostat to find a higher temp thermostat for it. I wrote the manufacture asking for a higher temp thermostat. No luck. The oil temps rise quickly but only go to 180 degrees on a cool day. Rick Neilsen ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: FSII rebuild progress From: "Richard Pike" Didn't do much this last week, various other aspects of life really are more important than airplanes sometimes, but got some work done yesterday and today. These are a bit out of sequence timewise, the first one I just took a couple minutes ago, the bottom of the fuselage is now covered and shrunk. The next picture is looking at the entrance into the boom tube with the fuselage upside down, I put a piece of 1/8" Lexan across the lower edge to keep the cables from chafing on the rivits. Drilled a hole in each end and safety wired it in place. Since it is not the original boom, there are lots of extra holes available... Got the ground plane in for the transponder antenna, one layer of fabric under the seat and feet, and some fabric across the back side of the cage. Transponder tray is in, since it is an experimental aircraft, it is legal to take the head off the transponder and remote the unit away from the part where you select the codes, etc. So it is now where the gas tanks would originally go, keeps it out of the way. The battery will go just ahead and to the right of it, under the package shelf. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277817#277817 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150609_large_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150604_large_513.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150603_large_583.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150600_large_208.jpg ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:47 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FSII rebuild progress Richard any reason why the whole airframe cannot be the ground plane for the radio? Herb At 08:23 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: > >Didn't do much this last week, various other aspects of life really >are more important than airplanes sometimes, but got some work done >yesterday and today. > >These are a bit out of sequence timewise, the first one I just took >a couple minutes ago, the bottom of the fuselage is now covered and shrunk. > >The next picture is looking at the entrance into the boom tube with >the fuselage upside down, I put a piece of 1/8" Lexan across the >lower edge to keep the cables from chafing on the rivits. Drilled a >hole in each end and safety wired it in place. Since it is not the >original boom, there are lots of extra holes available... > >Got the ground plane in for the transponder antenna, one layer of >fabric under the seat and feet, and some fabric across the back side >of the cage. > >Transponder tray is in, since it is an experimental aircraft, it is >legal to take the head off the transponder and remote the unit away >from the part where you select the codes, etc. So it is now where >the gas tanks would originally go, keeps it out of the way. The >battery will go just ahead and to the right of it, under the package shelf. > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277817#277817 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150609_large_160.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150604_large_513.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150603_large_583.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1150600_large_208.jpg > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >12/16/09 19:52:00 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:36 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Rick Neilson=2C I believe you suggested a cure for me=2C when I think you meant to direct it to Rick Lewis. He is the one with the water-cooled VW engine. Herb=2C (I changed the subject line to reflect the present answer) I have the three cylinder=2C 1000cc GEO Metro engine=2C with Raven Redriv e's reduction unit=2C Ivo in-flight electric operated prop. I am sorry to say that I have been building on my Kolb MkIII for way too many years. A whole lot of lousy reasons have kept me from finishing it... .until recently. The whole plane is VERY close! The paint is finished=2C except for stripes. The engine is finished except for reinstallation of th e wiring harness and gauges. 90% done=2C only 90% to go! I have been building my new home (1200 ft from the local airport). My wi fe and I moved in the day before Thanksgiving. I'm not 100% done=2C but I only have a few "minor" things to wrap up...about two weeks worth of "proje cts"(closet shelves and such). I put my plane on hold until the house is f inished. I can't do both. Too old=2C I guess. Or just plain too tired to burn the candle at both ends. Anyway=2C the deal was....build the house=2C and then you can take time o ff to finish the Kolb. Not much longer to go! I should be back to work on my plane in January. I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished=2C ru nning and fully operational many years ago. The engine was bone stock=2C e xcept for the redrive conversion=2C and some lightening mods. Just turn th e key and fire it up!! Two years ago=2C I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a bit of research=2C talked to quite a few guys=2C and bought some stuff. I made my own turbo header=2C exhaust outlet=2C intercooler ducting=2C and in general=2C my OWN custom installation. The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chevy Sprint Turbo car)=2C he he he=2C which I proceeded to cut up and have rewel ded to fit my needs! I joined the "Teamswift" chat group=2C the Suzuki cars high performance b unch=2C and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop. This guy c omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi m. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agress ive "performance" cam profile. He also redrilled the cam gear=2C another h ighly recommended improvement. So=2C here's what I have now!! A stock internally=2C except for the mild race cam and gear=2C engine. Plus=2C my own turbocharger installation=2C which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel that's finished=2C and ready for installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent mods=2C so they remain operational. I'd need a f ew days to hook up the wiring harness=2C install the panel=2C double check everything=2C and fire it up. I don't claim anything until I see it for myself=2C but according to a fe w guys I've chatted with=2C my GEO engine "should" now be putting out aroun d 95 to 100 HP=2C and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always say "we 'll see!!" I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. I know. A little wordy=2C but you asked. I'm gabby=2C what can I say? Mike Welch MkIIICX From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...t hree and four cyl...) At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote: John H=2C Yes=2C you are correct about the little bleed hole. But=2C if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block=2C you're going to get a "cert ain" amount of cool down. How far is "too" far=2C and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But=2C si nce this is "experimental"=2C I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer tain their design worked as they planned. As an example of what I'm getting at=3B normally=2C when you start your car/truck/tractor=2C the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets t o the thermostat=2C opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice=2C a nd has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. But let's say=2C for the sake of argument=2C you have to locate that ther mostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?")=3B No=2C the question is=3B how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might b e too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger=2C to allow for " extra" warm coolant flow=2C if we engineer a new system=2C we definitely wa nt to make sure it works. Mike W _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:06 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > Here are a couple of pictures. Two of the coolant thermostat and one with > an oil thermostat. These only go to 180F and won't take an engine to 200F. > 180F is about the highest on the market. The tape is less expensive and > you can tape until you get your desired temp. These are not cheap either. > > -------- > Roger Lee Thanks, Roger: I got the photos that time. Still didn't show where they are bringing the bypass water from. I'm going to stick with what I have. Looks like this 912ULS is going to run about 20F cooler with the Titan Exhaust System. May be able to get away with bypassing the oil cooler like I used to do on my 912UL. If not, I'll go to the tape. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:03 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and std computer? Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did you drop the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if turbocharging......? Herb > I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% > finished, running and fully operational many years ago. The engine > was bone stock, except for the redrive conversion, and some > lightening mods. Just turn the key and fire it up!! > > Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite > a bit of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some > stuff. I made my own turbo header, exhaust outlet, >intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation. > The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from > a Chevy Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up > and have rewelded to fit my needs! > > I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high > performance bunch, and found out one of the moderators has a > machine shop. This guy comes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who > has had their engine reworked by him. I had him regrind my stock > "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agressive "performance" cam > profile. He also redrilled the cam gear, another highly > recommended improvement. > > So, here's what I have now!! A stock internally, except for the > mild race cam and gear, engine. Plus, my own turbocharger > installation, which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set > of gauges (in a panel that's finished, and ready for > installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent > mods, so they remain operational. I'd need a few days to hook up > the wiring harness, install the panel, double check everything, and fire it up. > > I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according > to a few guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be > putting out around 95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of > torque. As I always say "we'll see!!" > I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. > > I know. A little wordy, but you asked. I'm gabby, what can I say? > >Mike Welch >MkIIICX > > >---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:19:36 -0600 >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >From: herbgh@nctc.com >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > >Mike > > Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo > engines...three and four cyl...) > > >At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >John H, > > Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you > stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to > get a "certain" amount of cool down. > How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not > sure. But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) > would want to make certain their design worked as they planned. > > As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start > your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the > warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly > constant practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. > But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that > thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the > question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how > long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to > the thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. > > As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow > for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we > definitely want to make sure it works. > >Mike W > > >---------- > > >lectric.com >/">www.buildersbooks.com >ebuilthelp.com >ww.matronics.com/contribution >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >ronics.com > > >---------- >Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:44 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FSII rebuild progress From: "Richard Pike" herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > Richard > > any reason why the whole airframe cannot be the ground plane for > the radio? Herb > > Hi Herb, did some digging online, and as best I can tell (I used to remember, but that's gone...) you want a ground plane that radiates out from the antenna and ties into the airframe, assuming the airframe is steel. I wanted the antenna away from the gear legs, so I would have had to put something in the belly of the fuselage anyway, and those strips were available and easy to form, so it was pragmatic mostly. Best radio reception I ever had was with an antenna mounted atop the two-piece kingpost on the Hummer. Landing wires running out to the wings, the kingpost running fore and aft, it was remarkable. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277827#277827 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:21 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FSII rebuild progress Standard Am radio practice is to bury the ground wires in a radial fashion out from the base of the vertical antenna..so I can understand the landing wires(radials). contributing to the efficiency of your radio... An SWR meter might help to improve our radio effectivness... Herb At 09:08 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: > > >herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > > Richard > > > > any reason why the whole airframe cannot be the ground plane for > > the radio? Herb > > > > > > >Hi Herb, did some digging online, and as best I can tell (I used to >remember, but that's gone...) you want a ground plane that radiates >out from the antenna and ties into the airframe, assuming the >airframe is steel. I wanted the antenna away from the gear legs, so >I would have had to put something in the belly of the fuselage >anyway, and those strips were available and easy to form, so it was >pragmatic mostly. > >Best radio reception I ever had was with an antenna mounted atop the >two-piece kingpost on the Hummer. Landing wires running out to the >wings, the kingpost running fore and aft, it was remarkable. > >Richard Pike >MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277827#277827 > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >12/16/09 19:52:00 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:44 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Herb=2C Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharged ". I've heard the expression=2C I just don't know what it means. But=2C since my engine is bone stock=2C this means I made no internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! Here's why=3B A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and adju st timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi. You get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can also boost your engine with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem. But=2C I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say=2C around 8! I hav e made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars=2C stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem. Compr ession would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost. These guys are l ike Suzuki race geeks=2C they eat=2C sleep=2C and breathe this hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have said. They're not shade tree mechani cs=2C some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports f rom their customers I've read about their work=2C they know their "stuff"! Mike From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and s td computer? Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did you dro p the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if turbocharging......? Herb I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished=2C ru nning and fully operational many years ago. The engine was bone stock=2C e xcept for the redrive conversion=2C and some lightening mods. Just turn th e key and fire it up!! Two years ago=2C I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a bit of research=2C talked to quite a few guys=2C and bought some stuff. I made my own turbo header=2C exhaust outlet=2C intercooler ducting=2C and in general=2C my OWN custom installation. The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chevy Sprint Turbo car)=2C he he he=2C which I proceeded to cut up and have rewel ded to fit my needs! I joined the "Teamswift" chat group=2C the Suzuki cars high performance b unch=2C and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop. This guy c omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi m. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agress ive "performance" cam profile. He also redrilled the cam gear=2C another h ighly recommended improvement. So=2C here's what I have now!! A stock internally=2C except for the mild race cam and gear=2C engine. Plus=2C my own turbocharger installation=2C which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel that's finished=2C and ready for installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent mods=2C so they remain operational. I'd need a f ew days to hook up the wiring harness=2C install the panel=2C double check everything=2C and fire it up. I don't claim anything until I see it for myself=2C but according to a fe w guys I've chatted with=2C my GEO engine "should" now be putting out aroun d 95 to 100 HP=2C and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always say "we 'll see!!" I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. I know. A little wordy=2C but you asked. I'm gabby=2C what can I say? Mike Welch MkIIICX From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...t hree and four cyl...) At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote: John H=2C Yes=2C you are correct about the little bleed hole. But=2C if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block=2C you're going to get a "cert ain" amount of cool down. How far is "too" far=2C and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But=2C si nce this is "experimental"=2C I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer tain their design worked as they planned. As an example of what I'm getting at=3B normally=2C when you start your car/truck/tractor=2C the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets t o the thermostat=2C opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice=2C a nd has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. But let's say=2C for the sake of argument=2C you have to locate that ther mostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?")=3B No=2C the question is=3B how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might b e too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger=2C to allow for " extra" warm coolant flow=2C if we engineer a new system=2C we definitely wa nt to make sure it works. Mike W lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:23 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have been very successful on trikes... more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My experience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs to be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equivalent to the 582.. He had a 2 to 1 redrive ratio . Raven product.....I thought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter engine...and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas? It is 2 to 1 also...Herb At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >Herb, > > Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. > > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or > "turbocharged". I've heard the expression, I just don't know what > it means. But, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no > internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! > >Here's why; > A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios > and adjust timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 > psi. You get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death > Valley to Pike's Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can > also boost your engine with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem. > But, I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say, around 8! I > have made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. > According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars, > stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no > problem. Compression would need to be altered for around 14+ psi > boost. These guys are like Suzuki race geeks, they eat, sleep, and > breathe this hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have > said. They're not shade tree mechanics, some of these guys do this > for a living....and from all the reports from their customers I've > read about their work, they know their "stuff"! > >Mike > >---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:52 -0600 >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >From: herbgh@nctc.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines > >I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel >system and std computer? > > Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did > you drop the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if > turbocharging......? Herb > > > I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% > finished, running and fully operational many years ago. The engine > was bone stock, except for the redrive conversion, and some > lightening mods. Just turn the key and fire it up!! > > Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite > a bit of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some > stuff. I made my own turbo header, exhaust outlet, >intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation. > The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from > a Chevy Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up > and have rewelded to fit my needs! > > I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high > performance bunch, and found out one of the moderators has a > machine shop. This guy comes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who > has had their engine reworked by him. I had him regrind my stock > "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agressive "performance" cam > profile. He also redrilled the cam gear, another highly > recommended improvement. > > So, here's what I have now!! A stock internally, except for the > mild race cam and gear, engine. Plus, my own turbocharger > installation, which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set > of gauges (in a panel that's finished, and ready for > installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent > mods, so they remain operational. I'd need a few days to hook up > the wiring harness, install the panel, double check everything, and fire it up. > > I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according > to a few guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be > putting out around 95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of > torque. As I always say "we'll see!!" > I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. > > I know. A little wordy, but you asked. I'm gabby, what can I say? > >Mike Welch >MkIIICX > > >---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:19:36 -0600 >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >From: herbgh@nctc.com >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question > >Mike > > Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo > engines...three and four cyl...) > > >At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >John H, > > Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you > stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to > get a "certain" amount of cool down. > How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not > sure. But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) > would want to make certain their design worked as they planned. > > As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start > your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the > warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly > constant practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. > But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that > thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the > question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how > long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to > the thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. > > As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow > for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we > definitely want to make sure it works. > >Mike W > >---------- > > >lectric.com > >/">www.buildersbooks.com > >ebuilthelp.com > >ww.matronics.com/contribution > >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > >ronics.com > > >---------- >Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. > > >lectric.com >/">www.buildersbooks.com >ebuilthelp.com >ww.matronics.com/contribution >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >ronics.com > > >---------- >Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:56 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Flight Simulators From: Duane Ransdell Hi Group, With the onset of winter and/or lack of heat in the cockpit I'm looking for a decent flight sim program that I can simulate something close to a Kolb MKII or MKIII. Anyone have one they can recommend? Duane ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:42 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Hi Herb=2C group=2C I hope it turns out to be a good and reliable engine=2C too=2C or it'll h it the crap pile rickety tick. Old military expresion. (But=2C I doubt t hat it'll come to that!) Yes=2C there appears to be a lot of them that get installed on trikes=2C for some unknown reason. ?? More answers. 2.25 to 1=2C if I remember correctly. Ivo three blade=2C 69". I can change pitch from flat to steep in 10 seconds=2C or less.=2C wh ich means I can surely adjust pitch for max 5500 T.O. rpm. I think a 3 to 1 redrive would not work well in our situation. A 3 to 1 would allow for a HUGE prop (76"??). Way too big for the pusher applicatio n=2C I think. It'd work great on a tractor style taildragger=2C tho. Like I said=2C I should be able to get back to work on the plane in Janua ry. One of the first things I will do is get the engine running. I'll def initely let those that care a full report. BTW=2C I'm curious if anyone has ever put together a good working thrust device.....for measuring their airplane's static thrust. Anyone??? Anyone ?? Mike Welch MkIII CX From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have been very successful on trikes... more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My e xperience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs to be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equiv alent to the 582.. He had a 2 to 1 redrive ratio . Raven product.....I th ought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter engine.. .and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas? It is 2 to 1 also...Herb At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote: Herb=2C Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharged ". I've heard the expression=2C I just don't know what it means. But=2C since my engine is bone stock=2C this means I made no internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! Here's why=3B A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and adju st timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi. You get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can also boost your engine with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem. But=2C I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say=2C around 8! I hav e made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars=2C stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem. Compr ession would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost. These guys are l ike Suzuki race geeks=2C they eat=2C sleep=2C and breathe this hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have said. They're not shade tree mechani cs=2C some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports f rom their customers I've read about their work=2C they know their "stuff"! Mike From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and s td computer? Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did you dro p the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if turbocharging......? Herb I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished=2C ru nning and fully operational many years ago. The engine was bone stock=2C e xcept for the redrive conversion=2C and some lightening mods. Just turn th e key and fire it up!! Two years ago=2C I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a bit of research=2C talked to quite a few guys=2C and bought some stuff. I made my own turbo header=2C exhaust outlet=2C intercooler ducting=2C and in general=2C my OWN custom installation. The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chevy Sprint Turbo car)=2C he he he=2C which I proceeded to cut up and have rewel ded to fit my needs! I joined the "Teamswift" chat group=2C the Suzuki cars high performance b unch=2C and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop. This guy c omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi m. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agress ive "performance" cam profile. He also redrilled the cam gear=2C another h ighly recommended improvement. So=2C here's what I have now!! A stock internally=2C except for the mild race cam and gear=2C engine. Plus=2C my own turbocharger installation=2C which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel that's finished=2C and ready for installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent mods=2C so they remain operational. I'd need a f ew days to hook up the wiring harness=2C install the panel=2C double check everything=2C and fire it up. I don't claim anything until I see it for myself=2C but according to a fe w guys I've chatted with=2C my GEO engine "should" now be putting out aroun d 95 to 100 HP=2C and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always say "we 'll see!!" I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. I know. A little wordy=2C but you asked. I'm gabby=2C what can I say? Mike Welch MkIIICX From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...t hree and four cyl...) At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote: John H=2C Yes=2C you are correct about the little bleed hole. But=2C if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block=2C you're going to get a "cert ain" amount of cool down. How far is "too" far=2C and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But=2C si nce this is "experimental"=2C I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer tain their design worked as they planned. As an example of what I'm getting at=3B normally=2C when you start your car/truck/tractor=2C the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets t o the thermostat=2C opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice=2C a nd has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. But let's say=2C for the sake of argument=2C you have to locate that ther mostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?")=3B No=2C the question is=3B how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might b e too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger=2C to allow for " extra" warm coolant flow=2C if we engineer a new system=2C we definitely wa nt to make sure it works. Mike W lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:19 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Static thrust can be measured by using a die spring... I came across it when I was designing a die spring landing gear for my N3 Pup... Here is the message from some years ago..on the N3 Pup list... "I discovered that a 10 inch > blue > >die spring will make a static thrust tester. Just a ruller > with > >tenths of an inch scale and the die spring and some sort of mount would > be > >all that is necessary. The die spring deflects(compresses ) .1 inch for 10lbs > of > >pull--eg: 2.5 inches for 250 lbs---3.5 for 350 lbs and 4.5 for 450 > lbs. > >it would have to be mounted and used in compression mode. I would > >suggest a holder built much like the die spring landing gear . " I think the id was 3/4 inch...just google die springs and you will come up with charts and all the info .. Otherwise a commercial scale can be had...Herb At 11:09 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >Hi Herb, group, > > I hope it turns out to be a good and reliable engine, too, or > it'll hit the crap pile rickety tick. Old military > expresion. (But, I doubt that it'll come to that!) > > Yes, there appears to be a lot of them that get installed on > trikes, for some unknown reason. ?? > > More answers. 2.25 to 1, if I remember correctly. Ivo three > blade, 69". I can change pitch from flat to steep in 10 seconds, > or less., which means I can surely adjust pitch for max 5500 T.O. rpm. > I think a 3 to 1 redrive would not work well in our situation. A > 3 to 1 would allow for a HUGE prop (76"??). Way too big for the > pusher application, I think. It'd work great on a tractor style > taildragger, tho. > > Like I said, I should be able to get back to work on the plane in > January. One of the first things I will do is get the engine > running. I'll definitely let those that care a full report. > > BTW, I'm curious if anyone has ever put together a good working > thrust device.....for measuring their airplane's static > thrust. Anyone??? Anyone?? > >Mike Welch >MkIII CX > > >---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:41:27 -0600 >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >From: herbgh@nctc.com >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines > >Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... >they have been very successful on trikes... > > more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # > blades... My experience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the > 3 cyl engine needs to be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take > off and climb performance equivalent to the 582.. He had a 2 to > 1 redrive ratio . Raven product.....I thought it needed to be > closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter engine...and bought a > redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas? It is 2 to 1 also...Herb > > >At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >Herb, > > Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. > > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or > "turbocharged". I've heard the expression, I just don't know what > it means. But, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no > internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! > >Here's why; > A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios > and adjust timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 > psi. You get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death > Valley to Pike's Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can > also boost your engine with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem. > But, I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say, around 8! I > have made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. > According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars, > stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no > problem. Compression would need to be altered for around 14+ psi > boost. These guys are like Suzuki race geeks, they eat, sleep, and > breathe this hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have > said. They're not shade tree mechanics, some of these guys do this > for a living....and from all the reports from their customers I've > read about their work, they know their "stuff"! > >Mike > >---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:52 -0600 >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >From: herbgh@nctc.com >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines > >I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel >system and std computer? > > Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did > you drop the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if > turbocharging......? Herb > > > I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% > finished, running and fully operational many years ago. The engine > was bone stock, except for the redrive conversion, and some > lightening mods. Just turn the key and fire it up!! > > Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite > a bit of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some > stuff. I made my own turbo header, exhaust outlet, >intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation. > The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from > a Chevy Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up > and have rewelded to fit my needs! > > I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high > performance bunch, and found out one of the moderators has a > machine shop. This guy comes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who > has had their engine reworked by him. I had him regrind my stock > "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agressive "performance" cam > profile. He also redrilled the cam gear, another highly > recommended improvement. > > So, here's what I have now!! A stock internally, except for the > mild race cam and gear, engine. Plus, my own turbocharger > installation, which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set > of gauges (in a panel that's finished, and ready for > installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent > mods, so they remain operational. I'd need a few days to hook up > the wiring harness, install the panel, double check everything, and > fire it up. > > I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according > to a few guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be > putting out around 95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of > torque. As I always say "we'll see!!" > I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. > > I know. A little wordy, but you asked. I'm gabby, what can I say? > >Mike Welch >MkIIICX > >---------- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:19:36 -0600 >To: kolb-list@matronics.com >From: herbgh@nctc.com >Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question >Mike > Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo > engines...three and four cyl...) > >At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >John H, > > Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you > stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to > get a "certain" amount of cool down. > How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not > sure. But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) > would want to make certain their design worked as they planned. > > As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start > your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the > warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly > constant practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. > But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that > thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the > question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how > long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to > the thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. > > As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow > for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we > definitely want to make sure it works. > >Mike W > >---------- > > >lectric.com > > >/">www.buildersbooks.com > > >ebuilthelp.com > > >ww.matronics.com/contribution > > >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > >ronics.com > > >---------- >Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. > > >lectric.com > >/">www.buildersbooks.com > >ebuilthelp.com > >ww.matronics.com/contribution > >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > >ronics.com > > >---------- >Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. > > >lectric.com >/">www.buildersbooks.com >ebuilthelp.com >ww.matronics.com/contribution >ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >ronics.com > > >---------- >Hotmail: Trusted email with Micros7141664/direct/01/' >target='_new'>Sign up now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.