Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:37 AM - Re: Kolb engines (Dana Hague)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Flight Simulators (Richard Girard)
3. 05:25 AM - Re: Kolb engines (kolbdriver@mlsharp.com)
4. 05:47 AM - Re: Frapper ( gone ) (Thom Riddle)
5. 06:22 AM - Re: Kolb enginesKolb enginesRe: Rotax 912 Question (Thom Riddle)
6. 06:45 AM - Re: Kolb engines (robert bean)
7. 08:22 AM - Antenna Ground Plane (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN)
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Kolb engines (Mike Welch)
9. 08:22 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (b young)
10. 11:40 AM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (John Hauck)
11. 03:07 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (The Kuffels)
12. 04:54 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Richard Pike)
13. 04:56 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Richard Girard)
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At 11:22 PM 12/16/2009, Mike Welch wrote:
> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or
> "turbocharged". I've heard the expression, I just don't know what it
> means. But, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no internal
> compression ratio changes....I didn't need to!
A car with a turbo would be turbocharged, raising the manifold pressure
above 1 atmosphere. Turbo normalizing is for aircraft; there is zero boost
at sea level but the turbo keeps the manifold pressure at sea level normal
even at high altitudes.
-Dana
--
As I learn the innermost secrets of the people around me, they reward me
in many ways to keep me quiet.
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Subject: | Re: Flight Simulators |
X Planes would probably be your best choice. There are programs that would
let you model the Kolb and fly it.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Duane Ransdell <radiobluebook@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Group,
>
> With the onset of winter and/or lack of heat in the cockpit I'm looking for
> a decent flight sim program that I can simulate something close to a Kolb
> MKII or MKIII. Anyone have one they can recommend?
>
> Duane
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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Mike,
-
There was an article in either Kitplanes, Sport Pilot, or the other EAA rag
about a thrust measuring device.- I'll see if I can dig it up and scan i
t for ya...
-
Mike, (the other one in Missouri with a Geo eng on a Kolb!)
-
--- On Wed, 12/16/09, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines
Hi Herb, group,
-
- I hope it turns out to be a good and reliable engine, too,-or it'll h
it the crap pile rickety tick.- Old military expresion.- -(But, I dou
bt that it'll come to that!)
-
- Yes, there appears to be a lot of them that get installed on trikes, fo
r some unknown reason.- ??
-
- More answers.- 2.25 to 1,-if I remember correctly.- Ivo three bla
de, 69".- I can change pitch from flat to steep in 10 seconds, or less.,
which means I can surely adjust pitch for max 5500 T.O.-rpm.
- I think a 3 to 1 redrive would not work well in our situation.- A 3 t
o 1 would allow for a HUGE prop (76"??).- Way too big for the pusher appl
ication, I think.- It'd work great on a tractor style taildragger, tho.
-
- Like I said, I should be able to get back to work on the plane in Janua
ry.- One of the first things I will do is get the engine running.- I'll
definitely let those that-care a full report.
-
- BTW, I'm curious if anyone has ever put together a good working thrust
device.....for measuring their airplane's static thrust.-- Anyone??? An
yone??
-
Mike Welch
MkIII CX--
-
From: herbgh@nctc.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines
Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have
been very successful on trikes...
- more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My
experience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs t
o be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equ
ivalent to the 582..- He had a 2 to 1- redrive ratio . Raven product...
..I thought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter en
gine...and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas?-- I
t is 2 to 1 also...Herb-
At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote:
Herb,
-
- Stock engine.- Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection.
-
- I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharg
ed".-- I've heard the expression, I just don't know what it means.- B
ut, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no internal compressio
n ratio changes....I didn't need to!
-
Here's why;
- A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and ad
just timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi.-- You get v
arying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak.
-- This is a stock ECU parameter.- You can also boost your engine wit
h a turbo to 5 psi.- No problem.
- But, I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say, around 8!- I hav
e made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment.
- According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars, stock
compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem.-- C
ompression would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost.- These guys
are like Suzuki race geeks, they eat, sleep, and breathe this hotrod crap.
- I'm going by what many of them have said.- They're not shade tree mec
hanics, some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports
from their customers I've read about their work, they know their "stuff"!
-
Mike
From: herbgh@nctc.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines
I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and s
td computer?-
- Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged?-- What did y
ou drop the compression ratio down to to allow- the boost if turbochargin
g......? Herb
- I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished, ru
nning and fully operational many years ago.- The engine was bone stock, e
xcept for the redrive conversion, and some lightening mods.- Just turn th
e key and fire it up!!
-
- Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger.- I did quite a bi
t of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some stuff.- I made
my own turbo header, exhaust outlet,
intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation.
- The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chev
y Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up and have rewelde
d to fit my needs!
-
- I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high performance b
unch, and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop.- This guy c
omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi
m.- I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agre
ssive "performance" cam profile.- He also redrilled the cam gear, another
highly recommended improvement.
-
- So, here's what I have now!!- A stock internally, except for the mild
race cam and gear, engine.- Plus, my own turbocharger installation, whic
h is now fully complete.- I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel t
hat's finished, and ready for installation).- The redrive and prop were u
ntouched for any recent mods, so they remain operational.- I'd need a few
days to hook up the wiring harness, install the panel, double check everyt
hing, and fire it up.
-
- I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according to a fe
w guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be putting out around
95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque.- As I always say "we'l
l see!!"-
- I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January.
-
- I know.- A little wordy, but you asked.- I'm gabby, what can I say?
-
Mike Welch
MkIIICX
-
From: herbgh@nctc.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question
Mike
- Which engine and are you running it stock?- Herb ( with 5 geo engines
...three and four cyl...)-
At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote:
John H,
-
- Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole.- But, if you stick
the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to get a "certai
n" amount of cool down.
- How far is "too" far, and how much cool down?- I'm not sure.- But,
since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer
tain their design worked as they planned.
-
- As an example of what I'm getting at;- normally, when you start your
car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets to
the thermostat, opening it up.- This is a fairly constant practice, and h
as been all worked out by the vehicle's maker.
- But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that thermo
stat 28" away from it's original mounting location.- Then the question is
(not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how long will that small
bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat??- Might be to
o long.- Sure would be a pisser if it were.
-
- As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow for "
extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we definitely want t
o make sure it works.
-
Mike W
-
lectric.com
/">www.buildersbooks.com
ebuilthelp.com
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ronics.com
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Subject: | Re: Frapper ( gone ) |
I finally figured out how to create a google map with pins. I made one with all
the Slingshots in the FAA registration database. I also finally figured out how
to get a link directly to that map. It follows for anyone who is interested.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114767234655221336249.000477e31ae47f709303d&z=5
or is as a tinyurl
http://tinyurl.com/y9dw6rq
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and
not doing it.
- Mary Wilson Little
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277878#277878
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Subject: | Re: Kolb enginesKolb enginesRe: Rotax 912 Question |
....I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or
"turbocharged ". I've heard the expression=2C I just don't know what it
means.
*
*
*
*
*Turbocharged is a generic term that means the intake pressure is boosted by
a turbine driven by exhaust gases. However, in typical usage, it means that
the boost is somewhat above ambient pressure. By contrast, a TurboNormalized
engine is one in which the boost is limited to maintaining sea level
equivalent pressure as the aircraft climbs into less dense air, up to the
limits of that turbo's capability.*
*
*
*Thom in Buffalo*
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Subject: | Re: Kolb engines |
Herb, Mike is close; 2.26:1(Raven) Normally aspirated (no huffer)
with a single barrel carb mine starts putting out decent power at 5300
rpm.
The torque curve is quite broad with a peak at 3800 and HP top at 5500.
Mike's reground camshaft should improve that for aircraft use.
I feel Mike should limit boost to short duration climb and altitude
normalization. Just a little should add a good kick in the pants.
I don't think they had knock sensors on the Metros or Sprints.
It would be nice to have one a dyno to do some tweaking.
BB
On 16, Dec 2009, at 11:41 PM, Herb wrote:
> Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they
have been very successful on trikes...
>
> more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades...
My experience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine
needs to be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb
performance equivalent to the 582.. He had a 2 to 1 redrive ratio .
Raven product.....I thought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went
to the 1.3 liter engine...and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid
west...Kansas? It is 2 to 1 also...Herb
>
>
>
>
> At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote:
>> Herb,
>>
>> Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body
injection.
>>
>> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or
"turbocharged". I've heard the expression, I just don't know what it
means. But, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no
internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to!
>>
>> Here's why;
>> A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios
and adjust timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi. You
get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's
Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can also boost your engine
with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem.
>> But, I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say, around 8! I
have made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment.
>> According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars,
stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem.
Compression would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost. These
guys are like Suzuki race geeks, they eat, sleep, and breathe this
hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have said. They're not
shade tree mechanics, some of these guys do this for a living....and
from all the reports from their customers I've read about their work,
they know their "stuff"!
>>
>> Mike
>> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:52 -0600
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> From: herbgh@nctc.com
>> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines
>>
>> I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system
and std computer?
>>
>> Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did
you drop the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if
turbocharging......? Herb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100%
finished, running and fully operational many years ago. The engine was
bone stock, except for the redrive conversion, and some lightening mods.
Just turn the key and fire it up!!
>>
>> Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a
bit of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some stuff. I
made my own turbo header, exhaust outlet,
>> intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation.
>> The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a
Chevy Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up and have
rewelded to fit my needs!
>>
>> I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high
performance bunch, and found out one of the moderators has a machine
shop. This guy comes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their
engine reworked by him. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft
to a somewhat more agressive "performance" cam profile. He also
redrilled the cam gear, another highly recommended improvement.
>>
>> So, here's what I have now!! A stock internally, except for the
mild race cam and gear, engine. Plus, my own turbocharger installation,
which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a
panel that's finished, and ready for installation). The redrive and
prop were untouched for any recent mods, so they remain operational.
I'd need a few days to hook up the wiring harness, install the panel,
double check everything, and fire it up.
>>
>> I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according to
a few guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be putting out
around 95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always
say "we'll see!!"
>> I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January.
>>
>> I know. A little wordy, but you asked. I'm gabby, what can I say?
>>
>> Mike Welch
>> MkIIICX
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:19:36 -0600
>> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>> From: herbgh@nctc.com
>> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo
engines...three and four cyl...)
>>
>>
>> At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote:
>> John H,
>>
>> Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you
stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to get
a "certain" amount of cool down.
>> How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But,
since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) would want to make
certain their design worked as they planned.
>>
>> As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start
your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the warmth
gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly constant
practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker.
>> But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that
thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the
question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how long
will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the
thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were.
>>
>> As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow
for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we
definitely want to make sure it works.
>>
>> Mike W
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> lectric.com
>>
>> /">www.buildersbooks.com
>>
>> ebuilthelp.com
>>
>> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>
>> ronics.com
>>
>>
>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign
up now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> lectric.com
>> /">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ebuilthelp.com
>> ww.matronics.com/contribution
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> ronics.com
>>
>>
>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign
up now.
>
>
>
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Subject: | Antenna Ground Plane |
(Note - subject line changed to reflect the new direction of this
thread.)
"Richard Pike" wrote: <<... you want a ground plane that radiates out
from the antenna
and ties into the airframe, assuming the airframe is steel. >>
Hi, Richard -
I copied your idea for a radio antenna ground plane while I was bulding
my Kolb ten years ago, using an aluminum sheet on the belly (below the
fuel tanks), spanned between the two bottom longerons and covered over
with fabric. My ground plane is grounded using a single wire attaching
it to the common airframe ground, which ties into the gear leg and
engine case. But my antenna ground plane does not touch the metal cage
directly - there is fabric in between.
I have never considered my radio reception as "outstanding."
Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is
not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be
more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon
shaped) were touching the metal cage?
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul
Sandia Park, NM
Message 8
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Bob=2C Herb=2C Thom and group=2C
Oh=2C THAT turbo-normalized! Ok=2C I read up on it. No=2C my engine is
not turbo-normalized. Just the regular type turbo. I chose a Garrett GT15
44. This turbo is made especially for engines in the 1000cc to 1300cc rang
e. It's kinda small=2C about the sized of a large coffee mug=2C maybe a li
ttle bigger=2C but not much. Evidently lots of guys put these on motorcyc
les.
Yes=2C as Bob recommends=2C boost will likely be limited to T/O full powe
r runs mostly. Regarding knock sensors=2C that's why I'm limiting boost to
just 8 psi (by way of adjustable wastegate spring setting). I also have t
he cam gear (redrill) modification. This will help with that.
I did quite a bit of research before putting this thing together. I had
lots of questions I wanted answered before I began to make my own turbo ins
tallation. Questions like=3B how can I regulate the extra needed fuel when
on boost? How will I monitor all the engine's internal functions=2C espec
ially EGT and boost level and air/fuel ratio=2C and a host of other issues.
I had to feel I could handle all these questions before I could embark on
my own turbo. I feel I have comfortably answered all my questions=2C and
have accomodated them sufficiently.
Will it all work?? Can't say just yet. Will it be worth the effort and
cost? I'm not sure.
I know one thing=2C though. IF it works as planned=2C it ought to be a nic
e package!! If it doesn't work as planned=2C well=2C we won't go there jus
t yet.....
I do want to point out one thing. I will be limiting boost to no more th
an 8 psi. That is slightly more than 1/2 of 1 atmosphere (which is 14.7 ps
i at sea level) 8 psi boost should increase performance about 50% above th
e base engine's power. 8 psi boost is NOT a lot of boost. This would be c
onsidered mild in automobile terms. All this boost stuff will be worked ou
t on the ground....long before any flight testing is discussed!!!
Youtube has dozens of those turbo geeks types that have installed monster
turbos on GEO engines=2C putting out in excess of 150 HP( for an engine th
at has a stock HP of 62!). I think I read a few guys have taken this engi
ne to more than 200 HP. Not very wise for an airplane=2C though=2C but sur
e makes for a screamer on the street.
Pleasant day to all=2C Mike Welch
From: slyck@frontiernet.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines
Herb=2C Mike is close=3B 2.26:1(Raven) Normally aspirated (no huffer) w
ith a single barrel carb mine starts putting out decent power at 5300 rpm.
The torque curve is quite broad with a peak at 3800 and HP top at 5500. Mi
ke's reground camshaft should improve that for aircraft use.
I feel Mike should limit boost to short duration climb and altitude normali
zation. Just a little should add a good kick in the pants.
I don't think they had knock sensors on the Metros or Sprints.
It would be nice to have one a dyno to do some tweaking.
BB
On 16=2C Dec 2009=2C at 11:41 PM=2C Herb wrote:
Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have
been very successful on trikes...
more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My e
xperience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs to
be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equiv
alent to the 582.. He had a 2 to 1 redrive ratio . Raven product.....I th
ought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter engine..
.and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas? It is 2 to
1 also...Herb
At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote:
Herb=2C
Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharged
". I've heard the expression=2C I just don't know what it means. But=2C
since my engine is bone stock=2C this means I made no internal compression
ratio changes....I didn't need to!
Here's why=3B
A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and adju
st timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi. You get varying
atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak. This
is a stock ECU parameter. You can also boost your engine with a turbo to 5
psi. No problem.
But=2C I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say=2C around 8! I hav
e made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment.
According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars=2C stock
compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem. Compr
ession would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost. These guys are l
ike Suzuki race geeks=2C they eat=2C sleep=2C and breathe this hotrod crap.
I'm going by what many of them have said. They're not shade tree mechani
cs=2C some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports f
rom their customers I've read about their work=2C they know their "stuff"!
Mike
From: herbgh@nctc.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines
I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and s
td computer?
Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did you dro
p the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if turbocharging......?
Herb
I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished=2C ru
nning and fully operational many years ago. The engine was bone stock=2C e
xcept for the redrive conversion=2C and some lightening mods. Just turn th
e key and fire it up!!
Two years ago=2C I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a bit
of research=2C talked to quite a few guys=2C and bought some stuff. I made
my own turbo header=2C exhaust outlet=2C
intercooler ducting=2C and in general=2C my OWN custom installation.
The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chevy
Sprint Turbo car)=2C he he he=2C which I proceeded to cut up and have rewel
ded to fit my needs!
I joined the "Teamswift" chat group=2C the Suzuki cars high performance b
unch=2C and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop. This guy c
omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi
m. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agress
ive "performance" cam profile. He also redrilled the cam gear=2C another h
ighly recommended improvement.
So=2C here's what I have now!! A stock internally=2C except for the mild
race cam and gear=2C engine. Plus=2C my own turbocharger installation=2C
which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel
that's finished=2C and ready for installation). The redrive and prop were
untouched for any recent mods=2C so they remain operational. I'd need a f
ew days to hook up the wiring harness=2C install the panel=2C double check
everything=2C and fire it up.
I don't claim anything until I see it for myself=2C but according to a fe
w guys I've chatted with=2C my GEO engine "should" now be putting out aroun
d 95 to 100 HP=2C and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always say "we
'll see!!"
I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January.
I know. A little wordy=2C but you asked. I'm gabby=2C what can I say?
Mike Welch
MkIIICX
From: herbgh@nctc.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question
Mike
Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...t
hree and four cyl...)
At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote:
John H=2C
Yes=2C you are correct about the little bleed hole. But=2C if you stick
the inline thermostat too far from the block=2C you're going to get a "cert
ain" amount of cool down.
How far is "too" far=2C and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But=2C si
nce this is "experimental"=2C I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer
tain their design worked as they planned.
As an example of what I'm getting at=3B normally=2C when you start your
car/truck/tractor=2C the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets t
o the thermostat=2C opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice=2C a
nd has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker.
But let's say=2C for the sake of argument=2C you have to locate that ther
mostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is
(not "do you feel lucky?")=3B No=2C the question is=3B how long will that
small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might b
e too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were.
As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger=2C to allow for "
extra" warm coolant flow=2C if we engineer a new system=2C we definitely wa
nt to make sure it works.
Mike W
lectric.com
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ebuilthelp.com
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ronics.com
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ronics.com
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3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
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Subject: | Rotax 912 Question |
Boyd,
Does that mean you dont need a shut off to the main radiator when you want
heat?
Would you get more heat or restrict normal coolant flow too much?
Vic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
That is correct, I do not have a shut off in line with the main radiator.
The radiator and the heater core are plumed in parallel they both get the
same differential pressure all the time. In winter when I want heat I have
to tape up the main radiator in order to keep the temps higher, when I
started this project I looked for an in line thermostat at snowmobile
shops, motorcycle shops, auto parts store, LEAF, I had no luck finding
one. That is when Leading Edge Air Foil told me that there was no specific
need to have a minimum water temp. Thus no thermostat from rotax. The
BMW thermostat, 18.95. may be a perfect answer. I would have a higher flow
through the heater core this would keep enough flow to reduce pressure
build up from the pump, bring the heat quickly to the thermostat, and the
thermostat would replace the need for tape. Just thinking out loud.. If
you created a bypass from the extra opening in the BMW thermostat back to
the outlet side of the radiator, I am thinking you would want something to
restrict the flow so when the thermostat opened the flow would be through
the radiator and not the bypass. Maybe a spring loaded check valve. Or
in my case the heater core.
Questions: Would the thermostat create too much restriction in an
otherwise open circuit?
do we know that the sizes are on the three openings
in the bmw thermostat?
Boyd Young
MKIII
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Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
Dennis/Gang:
Poor reception is usually caused by excessive RMI and EMI interference.
I don't think the ground increases reception performance of the radio,
only the transmit side.
john h - 5 months until MV and counting.
mkIII
I have never considered my radio reception as "outstanding."
Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is
not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be
more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon
shaped) were touching the metal cage?
Dennis Kirby
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Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
Dennis,
<< I have never considered my radio reception as "outstanding."
Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is
not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be
more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon
shaped) were touching the metal cage? >>
Short answer, probably yes. There are basically two types of ground
planes: Untuned = Infinity (or as close to it as one can manage) and
Tuned = 1/4 wavelength in *radius*. For aircraft com frequencies this
would be a radius of about 22 inches or a diameter of 44 inches. Thus
converting your badly tuned 1/8 wavelength ground plane into an
"untuned" type by grounding it to the airframe should improve your
performance. The bonding between the ground plane sheet and the
airframe should be a much as possible, not just a single point or two.
In addition, John Hauck's statement
<< I don't think the ground increases reception performance of the
radio, only the transmit side. >>
is contrary to accepted electronics theory. The rule is an antenna
works exactly the same for transmit or receive except for the effects of
heating and high voltage associated with very high power transmissions.
For aircraft applications these effects are undetectable.
Tom Kuffel
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Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
[quote="Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland."](Note subject line changed to reflect the new
direction of this thread.)
"Richard Pike" wrote:
Hi, Richard
I copied your idea for a radio antenna ground plane while I was bulding my Kolb
ten years ago, using an aluminum sheet on the belly (below the fuel tanks), spanned
between the two bottom longerons and covered over with fabric. My ground
plane is grounded using a single wire attaching it to the common airframe ground,
which ties into the gear leg and engine case. But my antenna ground plane
does not touch the metal cage directly there is fabric in between.
I have never considered my radio reception as outstanding. Acceptable, but not
great. Could this be because the ground plane is not in direct contact with
the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more effective if the ground plane
(approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped) were touching the metal cage?
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul
Sandia Park, NM
> [b]
Hi Dennis, I got my info from this page - http://www.biplaneforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1882
Don't know if the guy knows what he is talking about or not, but since he is in
the business of selling antennas, I decided he probably knows more than I do
- anyway, this is what he said on the page:
"The steel tube structure can be used as a ground plane but to work properly the
antenna ground must be tied electrically into the tubing. Remember, a ground
plane at these frequencies should be about 48 inches in diameter at least to
work properly. Larger is better. An antenna mounted to a smaller plate and the
plate then attached to the tubing will be OK but the plate must be electrically
attached to the tubing and I do not mean with a ground wire. Ideally the ground
currents should go into the ground plane in a radial manner in several places
but do the best you can. If the antenna ground is not done properly the
VSWR of the antenna can be very high."
So the skinny little tube had the paint ground off it from moving it around the
garage, I stretched the two strip of aluminum across it to for a six sided spoke
arrangement, and riveted the crossing strips to the longerons. So it ought
to be tied in all around, and if it doesn't work right I can always try and
persuade Ed that he doesn't really need a transponder in a FSII anyway... not
to mention that we don't know yet if the transponder still works after the crash.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278012#278012
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Subject: | Re: Antenna Ground Plane |
Dennis, Tom, Actually, probably not. RF grounding and electrical grounding
are common in name only. Another of the great hangar myths teaches that
tying every piece of metal in the airplane together electrically helps radi
o
performance. It doesn't matter, what does is metal in the transmission path
.
What you might want to investigate is antenna location and orientation, and
making sure you don't have a ground loop in the antenna feed line (groundin
g
the coax at both ends).
Rick
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM, The Kuffels <kuffel@cyberport.net> wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> << I have never considered my radio reception as =93outstanding.=94
> Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is not
in
> direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more
> effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped)
> were touching the metal cage? >>
>
> Short answer, probably yes. There are basically two types of ground
> planes: Untuned = Infinity (or as close to it as one can manage) and Tu
ned
> 1/4 wavelength in *radius*. For aircraft com frequencies this would be a
> radius of about 22 inches or a diameter of 44 inches. Thus converting yo
ur
> badly tuned 1/8 wavelength ground plane into an "untuned" type by groundi
ng
> it to the airframe should improve your performance. The bonding between
the
> ground plane sheet and the airframe should be a much as possible, not jus
t a
> single point or two.
>
> In addition, John Hauck's statement
>
> << I don't think the ground increases reception performance of the radio,
> only the transmit side. >>
>
> is contrary to accepted electronics theory. The rule is an antenna works
> exactly the same for transmit or receive except for the effects of heatin
g
> and high voltage associated with very high power transmissions. For
> aircraft applications these effects are undetectable.
>
> Tom Kuffel
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
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