---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/17/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:37 AM - Re: Kolb engines (Dana Hague) 2. 05:12 AM - Re: Flight Simulators (Richard Girard) 3. 05:25 AM - Re: Kolb engines (kolbdriver@mlsharp.com) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: Frapper ( gone ) (Thom Riddle) 5. 06:22 AM - Re: Kolb enginesKolb enginesRe: Rotax 912 Question (Thom Riddle) 6. 06:45 AM - Re: Kolb engines (robert bean) 7. 08:22 AM - Antenna Ground Plane (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN) 8. 08:22 AM - Re: Kolb engines (Mike Welch) 9. 08:22 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Question (b young) 10. 11:40 AM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (John Hauck) 11. 03:07 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (The Kuffels) 12. 04:54 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Richard Pike) 13. 04:56 PM - Re: Antenna Ground Plane (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:01 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines At 11:22 PM 12/16/2009, Mike Welch wrote: > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or > "turbocharged". I've heard the expression, I just don't know what it > means. But, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no internal > compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! A car with a turbo would be turbocharged, raising the manifold pressure above 1 atmosphere. Turbo normalizing is for aircraft; there is zero boost at sea level but the turbo keeps the manifold pressure at sea level normal even at high altitudes. -Dana -- As I learn the innermost secrets of the people around me, they reward me in many ways to keep me quiet. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flight Simulators From: Richard Girard X Planes would probably be your best choice. There are programs that would let you model the Kolb and fly it. Rick Girard do not archive On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Duane Ransdell wrote: > Hi Group, > > With the onset of winter and/or lack of heat in the cockpit I'm looking for > a decent flight sim program that I can simulate something close to a Kolb > MKII or MKIII. Anyone have one they can recommend? > > Duane > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:37 AM PST US From: kolbdriver@mlsharp.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Mike, - There was an article in either Kitplanes, Sport Pilot, or the other EAA rag about a thrust measuring device.- I'll see if I can dig it up and scan i t for ya... - Mike, (the other one in Missouri with a Geo eng on a Kolb!) - --- On Wed, 12/16/09, Mike Welch wrote: From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Hi Herb, group, - - I hope it turns out to be a good and reliable engine, too,-or it'll h it the crap pile rickety tick.- Old military expresion.- -(But, I dou bt that it'll come to that!) - - Yes, there appears to be a lot of them that get installed on trikes, fo r some unknown reason.- ?? - - More answers.- 2.25 to 1,-if I remember correctly.- Ivo three bla de, 69".- I can change pitch from flat to steep in 10 seconds, or less., which means I can surely adjust pitch for max 5500 T.O.-rpm. - I think a 3 to 1 redrive would not work well in our situation.- A 3 t o 1 would allow for a HUGE prop (76"??).- Way too big for the pusher appl ication, I think.- It'd work great on a tractor style taildragger, tho. - - Like I said, I should be able to get back to work on the plane in Janua ry.- One of the first things I will do is get the engine running.- I'll definitely let those that-care a full report. - - BTW, I'm curious if anyone has ever put together a good working thrust device.....for measuring their airplane's static thrust.-- Anyone??? An yone?? - Mike Welch MkIII CX-- - From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have been very successful on trikes... - more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My experience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs t o be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equ ivalent to the 582..- He had a 2 to 1- redrive ratio . Raven product... ..I thought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter en gine...and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas?-- I t is 2 to 1 also...Herb- At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: Herb, - - Stock engine.- Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. - - I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharg ed".-- I've heard the expression, I just don't know what it means.- B ut, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no internal compressio n ratio changes....I didn't need to! - Here's why; - A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and ad just timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi.-- You get v arying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak. -- This is a stock ECU parameter.- You can also boost your engine wit h a turbo to 5 psi.- No problem. - But, I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say, around 8!- I hav e made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. - According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars, stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem.-- C ompression would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost.- These guys are like Suzuki race geeks, they eat, sleep, and breathe this hotrod crap. - I'm going by what many of them have said.- They're not shade tree mec hanics, some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports from their customers I've read about their work, they know their "stuff"! - Mike From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and s td computer?- - Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged?-- What did y ou drop the compression ratio down to to allow- the boost if turbochargin g......? Herb - I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished, ru nning and fully operational many years ago.- The engine was bone stock, e xcept for the redrive conversion, and some lightening mods.- Just turn th e key and fire it up!! - - Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger.- I did quite a bi t of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some stuff.- I made my own turbo header, exhaust outlet, intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation. - The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chev y Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up and have rewelde d to fit my needs! - - I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high performance b unch, and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop.- This guy c omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi m.- I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agre ssive "performance" cam profile.- He also redrilled the cam gear, another highly recommended improvement. - - So, here's what I have now!!- A stock internally, except for the mild race cam and gear, engine.- Plus, my own turbocharger installation, whic h is now fully complete.- I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel t hat's finished, and ready for installation).- The redrive and prop were u ntouched for any recent mods, so they remain operational.- I'd need a few days to hook up the wiring harness, install the panel, double check everyt hing, and fire it up. - - I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according to a fe w guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be putting out around 95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque.- As I always say "we'l l see!!"- - I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. - - I know.- A little wordy, but you asked.- I'm gabby, what can I say? - Mike Welch MkIIICX - From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike - Which engine and are you running it stock?- Herb ( with 5 geo engines ...three and four cyl...)- At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: John H, - - Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole.- But, if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to get a "certai n" amount of cool down. - How far is "too" far, and how much cool down?- I'm not sure.- But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer tain their design worked as they planned. - - As an example of what I'm getting at;- normally, when you start your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up.- This is a fairly constant practice, and h as been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. - But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that thermo stat 28" away from it's original mounting location.- Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat??- Might be to o long.- Sure would be a pisser if it were. - - As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow for " extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we definitely want t o make sure it works. - Mike W - lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Hotmail: Trusted email with Micros7141664/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:16 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Frapper ( gone ) From: "Thom Riddle" I finally figured out how to create a google map with pins. I made one with all the Slingshots in the FAA registration database. I also finally figured out how to get a link directly to that map. It follows for anyone who is interested. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114767234655221336249.000477e31ae47f709303d&z=5 or is as a tinyurl http://tinyurl.com/y9dw6rq -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x31 There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. - Mary Wilson Little Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277878#277878 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:15 AM PST US From: Thom Riddle Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb enginesKolb enginesRe: Rotax 912 Question ....I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharged ". I've heard the expression=2C I just don't know what it means. * * * * *Turbocharged is a generic term that means the intake pressure is boosted by a turbine driven by exhaust gases. However, in typical usage, it means that the boost is somewhat above ambient pressure. By contrast, a TurboNormalized engine is one in which the boost is limited to maintaining sea level equivalent pressure as the aircraft climbs into less dense air, up to the limits of that turbo's capability.* * * *Thom in Buffalo* ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:34 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Herb, Mike is close; 2.26:1(Raven) Normally aspirated (no huffer) with a single barrel carb mine starts putting out decent power at 5300 rpm. The torque curve is quite broad with a peak at 3800 and HP top at 5500. Mike's reground camshaft should improve that for aircraft use. I feel Mike should limit boost to short duration climb and altitude normalization. Just a little should add a good kick in the pants. I don't think they had knock sensors on the Metros or Sprints. It would be nice to have one a dyno to do some tweaking. BB On 16, Dec 2009, at 11:41 PM, Herb wrote: > Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have been very successful on trikes... > > more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My experience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs to be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equivalent to the 582.. He had a 2 to 1 redrive ratio . Raven product.....I thought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter engine...and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas? It is 2 to 1 also...Herb > > > > > At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >> Herb, >> >> Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. >> >> I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharged". I've heard the expression, I just don't know what it means. But, since my engine is bone stock, this means I made no internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! >> >> Here's why; >> A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and adjust timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi. You get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can also boost your engine with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem. >> But, I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say, around 8! I have made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. >> According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars, stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem. Compression would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost. These guys are like Suzuki race geeks, they eat, sleep, and breathe this hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have said. They're not shade tree mechanics, some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports from their customers I've read about their work, they know their "stuff"! >> >> Mike >> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:57:52 -0600 >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> From: herbgh@nctc.com >> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines >> >> I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and std computer? >> >> Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did you drop the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if turbocharging......? Herb >> >> >> >> >> I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished, running and fully operational many years ago. The engine was bone stock, except for the redrive conversion, and some lightening mods. Just turn the key and fire it up!! >> >> Two years ago, I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a bit of research, talked to quite a few guys, and bought some stuff. I made my own turbo header, exhaust outlet, >> intercooler ducting, and in general, my OWN custom installation. >> The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chevy Sprint Turbo car), he he he, which I proceeded to cut up and have rewelded to fit my needs! >> >> I joined the "Teamswift" chat group, the Suzuki cars high performance bunch, and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop. This guy comes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by him. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agressive "performance" cam profile. He also redrilled the cam gear, another highly recommended improvement. >> >> So, here's what I have now!! A stock internally, except for the mild race cam and gear, engine. Plus, my own turbocharger installation, which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel that's finished, and ready for installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent mods, so they remain operational. I'd need a few days to hook up the wiring harness, install the panel, double check everything, and fire it up. >> >> I don't claim anything until I see it for myself, but according to a few guys I've chatted with, my GEO engine "should" now be putting out around 95 to 100 HP, and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always say "we'll see!!" >> I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. >> >> I know. A little wordy, but you asked. I'm gabby, what can I say? >> >> Mike Welch >> MkIIICX >> >> >> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:19:36 -0600 >> To: kolb-list@matronics.com >> From: herbgh@nctc.com >> Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question >> >> Mike >> >> Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...three and four cyl...) >> >> >> At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009, you wrote: >> John H, >> >> Yes, you are correct about the little bleed hole. But, if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block, you're going to get a "certain" amount of cool down. >> How far is "too" far, and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But, since this is "experimental", I think a guy (or gal) would want to make certain their design worked as they planned. >> >> As an example of what I'm getting at; normally, when you start your car/truck/tractor, the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets to the thermostat, opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice, and has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. >> But let's say, for the sake of argument, you have to locate that thermostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?"); No, the question is; how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might be too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. >> >> As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger, to allow for "extra" warm coolant flow, if we engineer a new system, we definitely want to make sure it works. >> >> Mike W >> >> >> >> >> >> >> lectric.com >> >> /">www.buildersbooks.com >> >> ebuilthelp.com >> >> ww.matronics.com/contribution >> >> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> ronics.com >> >> >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. >> >> >> >> >> lectric.com >> /">www.buildersbooks.com >> ebuilthelp.com >> ww.matronics.com/contribution >> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> ronics.com >> >> >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:51 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Antenna Ground Plane From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" (Note - subject line changed to reflect the new direction of this thread.) "Richard Pike" wrote: <<... you want a ground plane that radiates out from the antenna and ties into the airframe, assuming the airframe is steel. >> Hi, Richard - I copied your idea for a radio antenna ground plane while I was bulding my Kolb ten years ago, using an aluminum sheet on the belly (below the fuel tanks), spanned between the two bottom longerons and covered over with fabric. My ground plane is grounded using a single wire attaching it to the common airframe ground, which ties into the gear leg and engine case. But my antenna ground plane does not touch the metal cage directly - there is fabric in between. I have never considered my radio reception as "outstanding." Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped) were touching the metal cage? Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul Sandia Park, NM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:51 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Bob=2C Herb=2C Thom and group=2C Oh=2C THAT turbo-normalized! Ok=2C I read up on it. No=2C my engine is not turbo-normalized. Just the regular type turbo. I chose a Garrett GT15 44. This turbo is made especially for engines in the 1000cc to 1300cc rang e. It's kinda small=2C about the sized of a large coffee mug=2C maybe a li ttle bigger=2C but not much. Evidently lots of guys put these on motorcyc les. Yes=2C as Bob recommends=2C boost will likely be limited to T/O full powe r runs mostly. Regarding knock sensors=2C that's why I'm limiting boost to just 8 psi (by way of adjustable wastegate spring setting). I also have t he cam gear (redrill) modification. This will help with that. I did quite a bit of research before putting this thing together. I had lots of questions I wanted answered before I began to make my own turbo ins tallation. Questions like=3B how can I regulate the extra needed fuel when on boost? How will I monitor all the engine's internal functions=2C espec ially EGT and boost level and air/fuel ratio=2C and a host of other issues. I had to feel I could handle all these questions before I could embark on my own turbo. I feel I have comfortably answered all my questions=2C and have accomodated them sufficiently. Will it all work?? Can't say just yet. Will it be worth the effort and cost? I'm not sure. I know one thing=2C though. IF it works as planned=2C it ought to be a nic e package!! If it doesn't work as planned=2C well=2C we won't go there jus t yet..... I do want to point out one thing. I will be limiting boost to no more th an 8 psi. That is slightly more than 1/2 of 1 atmosphere (which is 14.7 ps i at sea level) 8 psi boost should increase performance about 50% above th e base engine's power. 8 psi boost is NOT a lot of boost. This would be c onsidered mild in automobile terms. All this boost stuff will be worked ou t on the ground....long before any flight testing is discussed!!! Youtube has dozens of those turbo geeks types that have installed monster turbos on GEO engines=2C putting out in excess of 150 HP( for an engine th at has a stock HP of 62!). I think I read a few guys have taken this engi ne to more than 200 HP. Not very wise for an airplane=2C though=2C but sur e makes for a screamer on the street. Pleasant day to all=2C Mike Welch From: slyck@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines Herb=2C Mike is close=3B 2.26:1(Raven) Normally aspirated (no huffer) w ith a single barrel carb mine starts putting out decent power at 5300 rpm. The torque curve is quite broad with a peak at 3800 and HP top at 5500. Mi ke's reground camshaft should improve that for aircraft use. I feel Mike should limit boost to short duration climb and altitude normali zation. Just a little should add a good kick in the pants. I don't think they had knock sensors on the Metros or Sprints. It would be nice to have one a dyno to do some tweaking. BB On 16=2C Dec 2009=2C at 11:41 PM=2C Herb wrote: Surely hope that it works out to be a good and reliable engine... they have been very successful on trikes... more questions...what redrive ratio? and prop length and # blades... My e xperience with my buds Loehle 5151 tells me that the 3 cyl engine needs to be able to turn 5500 rpms to give good take off and climb performance equiv alent to the 582.. He had a 2 to 1 redrive ratio . Raven product.....I th ought it needed to be closer to 3 to 1... he went to the 1.3 liter engine.. .and bought a redrive from a fellow in the mid west...Kansas? It is 2 to 1 also...Herb At 10:22 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote: Herb=2C Stock engine. Stock ECU computer and stock throttle body injection. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "turbo normalized" or "turbocharged ". I've heard the expression=2C I just don't know what it means. But=2C since my engine is bone stock=2C this means I made no internal compression ratio changes....I didn't need to! Here's why=3B A stock ECU (electronic control unit) can handle air/fuel ratios and adju st timing for varying atmospheric conditions UP to 5 psi. You get varying atmospheric pressures by driving from Death Valley to Pike's Peak. This is a stock ECU parameter. You can also boost your engine with a turbo to 5 psi. No problem. But=2C I want just a tad more than 5 psi boost....say=2C around 8! I hav e made external mods to allow for increased fuel enrichment. According to the guys that build race motors for the Suzuki cars=2C stock compression of about 9.0 to 1 can handle 8 psi boost...no problem. Compr ession would need to be altered for around 14+ psi boost. These guys are l ike Suzuki race geeks=2C they eat=2C sleep=2C and breathe this hotrod crap. I'm going by what many of them have said. They're not shade tree mechani cs=2C some of these guys do this for a living....and from all the reports f rom their customers I've read about their work=2C they know their "stuff"! Mike From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb engines I was wondering if you were using the stock throttle body fuel system and s td computer? Now I need to ask ..Turbo normalized or turbo charged? What did you dro p the compression ratio down to to allow the boost if turbocharging......? Herb I have had the normally aspirated GEO engine and prop 100% finished=2C ru nning and fully operational many years ago. The engine was bone stock=2C e xcept for the redrive conversion=2C and some lightening mods. Just turn th e key and fire it up!! Two years ago=2C I decided to install a turbocharger. I did quite a bit of research=2C talked to quite a few guys=2C and bought some stuff. I made my own turbo header=2C exhaust outlet=2C intercooler ducting=2C and in general=2C my OWN custom installation. The only "stock GEO" turbo part I used was the intercooler (from a Chevy Sprint Turbo car)=2C he he he=2C which I proceeded to cut up and have rewel ded to fit my needs! I joined the "Teamswift" chat group=2C the Suzuki cars high performance b unch=2C and found out one of the moderators has a machine shop. This guy c omes HIGHLY recommended by everyone who has had their engine reworked by hi m. I had him regrind my stock "economy" camshaft to a somewhat more agress ive "performance" cam profile. He also redrilled the cam gear=2C another h ighly recommended improvement. So=2C here's what I have now!! A stock internally=2C except for the mild race cam and gear=2C engine. Plus=2C my own turbocharger installation=2C which is now fully complete. I have an extensive set of gauges (in a panel that's finished=2C and ready for installation). The redrive and prop were untouched for any recent mods=2C so they remain operational. I'd need a f ew days to hook up the wiring harness=2C install the panel=2C double check everything=2C and fire it up. I don't claim anything until I see it for myself=2C but according to a fe w guys I've chatted with=2C my GEO engine "should" now be putting out aroun d 95 to 100 HP=2C and maybe around 120 ftlb of torque. As I always say "we 'll see!!" I should be able to get back to work on it sometime in January. I know. A little wordy=2C but you asked. I'm gabby=2C what can I say? Mike Welch MkIIICX From: herbgh@nctc.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 912 Question Mike Which engine and are you running it stock? Herb ( with 5 geo engines...t hree and four cyl...) At 05:49 PM 12/16/2009=2C you wrote: John H=2C Yes=2C you are correct about the little bleed hole. But=2C if you stick the inline thermostat too far from the block=2C you're going to get a "cert ain" amount of cool down. How far is "too" far=2C and how much cool down? I'm not sure. But=2C si nce this is "experimental"=2C I think a guy (or gal) would want to make cer tain their design worked as they planned. As an example of what I'm getting at=3B normally=2C when you start your car/truck/tractor=2C the engine warms and then eventually the warmth gets t o the thermostat=2C opening it up. This is a fairly constant practice=2C a nd has been all worked out by the vehicle's maker. But let's say=2C for the sake of argument=2C you have to locate that ther mostat 28" away from it's original mounting location. Then the question is (not "do you feel lucky?")=3B No=2C the question is=3B how long will that small bleed hole take to get very warm coolant to the thermostat?? Might b e too long. Sure would be a pisser if it were. As someone suggested about making the bleed hole larger=2C to allow for " extra" warm coolant flow=2C if we engineer a new system=2C we definitely wa nt to make sure it works. Mike W lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. lectric.com /">www.buildersbooks.com ebuilthelp.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ronics.com Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:51 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Rotax 912 Question Boyd, Does that mean you dont need a shut off to the main radiator when you want heat? Would you get more heat or restrict normal coolant flow too much? Vic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. That is correct, I do not have a shut off in line with the main radiator. The radiator and the heater core are plumed in parallel they both get the same differential pressure all the time. In winter when I want heat I have to tape up the main radiator in order to keep the temps higher, when I started this project I looked for an in line thermostat at snowmobile shops, motorcycle shops, auto parts store, LEAF, I had no luck finding one. That is when Leading Edge Air Foil told me that there was no specific need to have a minimum water temp. Thus no thermostat from rotax. The BMW thermostat, 18.95. may be a perfect answer. I would have a higher flow through the heater core this would keep enough flow to reduce pressure build up from the pump, bring the heat quickly to the thermostat, and the thermostat would replace the need for tape. Just thinking out loud.. If you created a bypass from the extra opening in the BMW thermostat back to the outlet side of the radiator, I am thinking you would want something to restrict the flow so when the thermostat opened the flow would be through the radiator and not the bypass. Maybe a spring loaded check valve. Or in my case the heater core. Questions: Would the thermostat create too much restriction in an otherwise open circuit? do we know that the sizes are on the three openings in the bmw thermostat? Boyd Young MKIII ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:57 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Antenna Ground Plane Dennis/Gang: Poor reception is usually caused by excessive RMI and EMI interference. I don't think the ground increases reception performance of the radio, only the transmit side. john h - 5 months until MV and counting. mkIII I have never considered my radio reception as "outstanding." Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped) were touching the metal cage? Dennis Kirby ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:10 PM PST US From: "The Kuffels" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Antenna Ground Plane Dennis, << I have never considered my radio reception as "outstanding." Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped) were touching the metal cage? >> Short answer, probably yes. There are basically two types of ground planes: Untuned = Infinity (or as close to it as one can manage) and Tuned = 1/4 wavelength in *radius*. For aircraft com frequencies this would be a radius of about 22 inches or a diameter of 44 inches. Thus converting your badly tuned 1/8 wavelength ground plane into an "untuned" type by grounding it to the airframe should improve your performance. The bonding between the ground plane sheet and the airframe should be a much as possible, not just a single point or two. In addition, John Hauck's statement << I don't think the ground increases reception performance of the radio, only the transmit side. >> is contrary to accepted electronics theory. The rule is an antenna works exactly the same for transmit or receive except for the effects of heating and high voltage associated with very high power transmissions. For aircraft applications these effects are undetectable. Tom Kuffel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Antenna Ground Plane From: "Richard Pike" [quote="Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland."](Note subject line changed to reflect the new direction of this thread.) "Richard Pike" wrote: Hi, Richard I copied your idea for a radio antenna ground plane while I was bulding my Kolb ten years ago, using an aluminum sheet on the belly (below the fuel tanks), spanned between the two bottom longerons and covered over with fabric. My ground plane is grounded using a single wire attaching it to the common airframe ground, which ties into the gear leg and engine case. But my antenna ground plane does not touch the metal cage directly there is fabric in between. I have never considered my radio reception as outstanding. Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is not in direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped) were touching the metal cage? Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul Sandia Park, NM > [b] Hi Dennis, I got my info from this page - http://www.biplaneforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1882 Don't know if the guy knows what he is talking about or not, but since he is in the business of selling antennas, I decided he probably knows more than I do - anyway, this is what he said on the page: "The steel tube structure can be used as a ground plane but to work properly the antenna ground must be tied electrically into the tubing. Remember, a ground plane at these frequencies should be about 48 inches in diameter at least to work properly. Larger is better. An antenna mounted to a smaller plate and the plate then attached to the tubing will be OK but the plate must be electrically attached to the tubing and I do not mean with a ground wire. Ideally the ground currents should go into the ground plane in a radial manner in several places but do the best you can. If the antenna ground is not done properly the VSWR of the antenna can be very high." So the skinny little tube had the paint ground off it from moving it around the garage, I stretched the two strip of aluminum across it to for a six sided spoke arrangement, and riveted the crossing strips to the longerons. So it ought to be tied in all around, and if it doesn't work right I can always try and persuade Ed that he doesn't really need a transponder in a FSII anyway... not to mention that we don't know yet if the transponder still works after the crash. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278012#278012 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Antenna Ground Plane From: Richard Girard Dennis, Tom, Actually, probably not. RF grounding and electrical grounding are common in name only. Another of the great hangar myths teaches that tying every piece of metal in the airplane together electrically helps radi o performance. It doesn't matter, what does is metal in the transmission path .. What you might want to investigate is antenna location and orientation, and making sure you don't have a ground loop in the antenna feed line (groundin g the coax at both ends). Rick On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM, The Kuffels wrote: > Dennis, > > << I have never considered my radio reception as =93outstanding.=94 > Acceptable, but not great. Could this be because the ground plane is not in > direct contact with the frame? Do you think my antenna would be more > effective if the ground plane (approx 24 inches diameter hexagon shaped) > were touching the metal cage? >> > > Short answer, probably yes. There are basically two types of ground > planes: Untuned = Infinity (or as close to it as one can manage) and Tu ned > 1/4 wavelength in *radius*. For aircraft com frequencies this would be a > radius of about 22 inches or a diameter of 44 inches. Thus converting yo ur > badly tuned 1/8 wavelength ground plane into an "untuned" type by groundi ng > it to the airframe should improve your performance. The bonding between the > ground plane sheet and the airframe should be a much as possible, not jus t a > single point or two. > > In addition, John Hauck's statement > > << I don't think the ground increases reception performance of the radio, > only the transmit side. >> > > is contrary to accepted electronics theory. The rule is an antenna works > exactly the same for transmit or receive except for the effects of heatin g > and high voltage associated with very high power transmissions. For > aircraft applications these effects are undetectable. > > Tom Kuffel > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.