Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - Re: Electrical Switch Location (Thom Riddle)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Electrical Switch Location (Mike Welch)
3. 07:46 AM - Monument Valley 2010 (John Hauck)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: Electrical Switch Location (John Hauck)
5. 08:54 AM - A little humor for the New Year (Richard Girard)
6. 08:54 AM - Still More MV2008 (John Hauck)
7. 08:55 AM - More MV 2008 (John Hauck)
8. 08:55 AM - And Still More MV2008 (John Hauck)
9. 08:55 AM - MV 2008 (John Hauck)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2010 (frank.goodnight)
11. 09:08 AM - Re: Electrical Switch Location (Mike Welch)
12. 10:53 AM - kolb in the distance (robert bean)
13. 11:47 AM - Re: Monument Valley 2010 (John Hauck)
14. 11:48 AM - Re: kolb in the distance (John Hauck)
15. 04:52 PM - Great way to start the year (Richard Girard)
16. 11:02 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
17. 11:08 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Electrical Switch Location |
My two mag switches, aux fuel pump switch and starter switch are located at the
front of the seat just below and outside my legs. The two separate mag switches
I reach blind with my left hand. The aux fuel pump switch and momentary contact
starter toggle switch are operated blind with my right hand. Everything else
in on the tiny SS panel which I don't need access to in flight except the
landing lights which I can reach with harness on. The EIS controls and elevator
trim as well as PTT are on the stick.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
I have reached an age when, if someone tells me to wear socks, I don't have to.
- Albert Einstein
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279581#279581
Message 2
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Subject: | Electrical Switch Location |
Mark=2C
There are lots of places where you could locate some switches=2C such as
overhead=2C below your knees=2C and on some center console=2C but how about
the following?..........
How about considering another very easy accessible place for those switch
es=2C etc? Why not mount them on a custom made pod on the door?
Back when I had a MkIII Classic front end (before my Xtra conversion)=2C
I had mounted the engine throttle on the flip-up door. It worked perfect
=2C felt comfortable=2C and swung out of the way when you get in and out.
Ok=2C but those doors are now gone!
Now that my (new) doors are the Xtra style doors=2C I remade the "door-mo
unted throttle" to work with my new style doors. Still works great=2C and
everything swings out of the way=2C to get in and out.
Now=2C regarding your question: Why not make an instrument/switch pod th
at mounts to your door? You could make it out of fiberglass (real easy pro
ject)=2C or aluminum (not my preference). This pod could incorporate an ar
mrest=2C door handle=2C and flow into an instrument pod.
The above door pod suggestion is something I've been kicking around for a
while. I just got back home a couple of days ago from Minneapolis=2C visit
ing with my oldest son. I used our brand new Garmin Nuvi=2C and I made a s
pecial note of where the GPS is most useful and comfortable to use.
For me=3B
A) I need it low=2C so I can see it properly with reading glasses.
B) I need it close=2C about 20" max. Anything further than that=2C and I
can't push the touch-screen with ANY accuracy.
Therefore=2C with these parameters in mind=2C I've decided to build (out of
fiberglass) a custom GPS pod/armrest=2C that will place the GPS where it w
ill be the most useful=2C on the door. The GPS's final location would be a
bout centered in front of me=2C about 15" in front of my stomach area. (abo
ut where you'd hold a magazine to read) The pod would hold one of those GP
S panel docks=2C the kind that the Garmin 296 just pops into. (the brand es
capes me=2C at the moment).
Just a suggestion=2C
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
Message 3
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Subject: | Monument Valley 2010 |
Morning Gang:
Time to start thinking about the 8th Annual Kolb Unplanned/Unorganized
Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah, 2010. How's that? The title is as long as
the flyin.
Mother's Day 2010 is 9 May. Memorial Day is the last Monday, 31 May.
Normally we plan on having our flyin the weekend between Mother's Day and
Memorial Day. However, this year there are two weekends in between.
If you plan on attending, let me know which weekend you prefer:
a. 14-16 May
b. 21-23 May
Based on that info, we'll make a decision on which date to go with.
A lot of us shoot to arrive on Thursday before the official start date on
Friday, depending on the flying weather.
If you haven't attended one of our flyins, you should. You are missing out
on what we feel is the best flyin anywhere for Kolb aircraft and Kolb
people. Monument Valley is a perfect place for this kind of get together.
If you flyin, there is a 4000 foot paved airstrip, auto fuel across the road
from the airstrip, beautiful RV Park with a designated area for tent
camping, where most of us camp. If drive, there is a nice lodge and also
individual cabins and duplexes. There is also a nice restaurant and a
grocery store for food and supplies. The convenience store also has fast
food available and less expensive than the restaurant. If we luck out,
maybe Uncle Craig and Tim will bring their rolling kitchen and cook
breakfast for us. ;-)
Take care,
john h
mkIII
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Electrical Switch Location |
Mike W/Gang:
Wish I had the motivation to make all those changes.
I kept all the switches along the bottom right of the instrument panel
in front of me. Circuit breakers on the left side along the bottom of
the instrument panel. I wear my shoulder harness loose enough to be
able to reach the switches. If I need to pull or push a circuit
breaker, takes a second to loosen the shoulder harness a little more to
reach them. Normally, never have to recycle a breaker. I did fabricate
a sheet metal panel which I shock mounted an inch or so nearer the
seats.
My Garmin GPS is worn on my left thigh with a 2" velcro leg strap
because I did not have room on the panel to mount it. Glad I didn't
have room on the panel because I like it better on my leg. I wear
bifocals and can easily see the gps and operate it. A slight
disadvantage of wearing on my thigh is having to look down farther than
if it was panel mounted. As my vision slowly deteriorates, I doubt I
could see it well enough to use if it was mounted on the panel.
Being comfortable in the cockpit and keeping it simple is of primary
importance to me.
Weather is lousy in Alabama, cold and wet. When the sun comes out it
will be cold, low 40s.
Happy and healthy new year, folks!
Yippee! 4.5 months until time to fly to MV.
john h
mkIII
There are lots of places where you could locate some switches, such
as overhead, below your knees, and on some center console, but how about
the following?..........
A) I need it low, so I can see it properly with reading glasses.
B) I need it close, about 20" max. Anything further than that, and
I can't push the touch-screen with ANY accuracy.
Just a suggestion,
Mike Welch
Message 5
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Subject: | A little humor for the New Year |
I don't particularly like crash videos, but this one had a good outcome for
the pilot, or so I've been led to believe, forgive me if I'm wrong.
I can't help but wonder if BRS will put this one up on their site as a
"save". Probably so since they counted Brad Koji and he did have a bad
outcome.
http://liveleak.com/view?i=391_1259184903
Cut and paste if the link doesn't open.
Rick Girard
Message 6
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Subject: | Still More MV2008 |
Message 7
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Message 8
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Subject: | And Still More MV2008 |
This is the end.
john h
mkIII
Message 9
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Hi Gang:
Here are some photos from MV2008.
john h
mkIII
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
Hi folks,
Happy to see that someone else is thinking about MV. Last year it was
the highlight of my flight exp. Wouldn't miss it for anything.
This year I pan to fly.[ last year I trailered ] If anyone is planing
to fly along the interstate 10 route in a slow a/c ,I"m in a---55-60--
mph firestar & would love to hook up.
Will leave from Brownsville, TX. If someone knows of a better route
than Interstate 10, I sure would like to hear about it. This will be
my first really
long x country with overnight stops along the way and I'm not too sure
about the best route. It looks like there will be some long legs and
I will
have to carry an extra 5 gal gas can and stop somewhere to pour it in
my main tanks. I would like to avoid that if I can. If I can't ---at
least it is doable.
John, either date is fine with me . Count me in.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar 2
Brownsville ,TX
On Jan 1, 2010, at 9:42 AM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Morning Gang:
>
> Time to start thinking about the 8th Annual Kolb Unplanned/
> Unorganized Flyin, Monument Valley, Utah, 2010. How's that? The
> title is as long as the flyin.
>
> Mother's Day 2010 is 9 May. Memorial Day is the last Monday, 31 May.
>
> Normally we plan on having our flyin the weekend between Mother's
> Day and Memorial Day. However, this year there are two weekends in
> between.
>
> If you plan on attending, let me know which weekend you prefer:
>
> a. 14-16 May
>
> b. 21-23 May
>
> Based on that info, we'll make a decision on which date to go with.
>
> A lot of us shoot to arrive on Thursday before the official start
> date on Friday, depending on the flying weather.
>
> If you haven't attended one of our flyins, you should. You are
> missing out on what we feel is the best flyin anywhere for Kolb
> aircraft and Kolb people. Monument Valley is a perfect place for
> this kind of get together. If you flyin, there is a 4000 foot paved
> airstrip, auto fuel across the road from the airstrip, beautiful RV
> Park with a designated area for tent camping, where most of us
> camp. If drive, there is a nice lodge and also individual cabins
> and duplexes. There is also a nice restaurant and a grocery store
> for food and supplies. The convenience store also has fast food
> available and less expensive than the restaurant. If we luck out,
> maybe Uncle Craig and Tim will bring their rolling kitchen and cook
> breakfast for us. ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
> john h
> mkIII
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Electrical Switch Location |
John H/Everybody else=2C
Yeah=2C I admit=2C most of the changes I've done are NOT for the faint of
heart.
Plus=2C after all the delays=2C mods and postponings=2C it's time for me
to finish the plane.
I'm not going to begin any further stuff until I have the plane finished.
Things like "door pods" and other less important paraphernalia will be le
ft for later.
Mike Welch
From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Electrical Switch Location
Mike W/Gang:
Wish I had the motivation to make all those changes.
I kept all the switches along the bottom right of the instrument panel in f
ront of me. Circuit breakers on the left side along the bottom of the inst
rument panel. I wear my shoulder harness loose enough to be able to reach
the switches. If I need to pull or push a circuit breaker=2C takes a secon
d to loosen the shoulder harness a little more to reach them. Normally=2C
never have to recycle a breaker. I did fabricate a sheet metal panel which
I shock mounted an inch or so nearer the seats.
My Garmin GPS is worn on my left thigh with a 2" velcro leg strap because I
did not have room on the panel to mount it. Glad I didn't have room on th
e panel because I like it better on my leg. I wear bifocals and can easily
see the gps and operate it. A slight disadvantage of wearing on my thigh
is having to look down farther than if it was panel mounted. As my vision
slowly deteriorates=2C I doubt I could see it well enough to use if it was
mounted on the panel.
Being comfortable in the cockpit and keeping it simple is of primary import
ance to me.
Weather is lousy in Alabama=2C cold and wet. When the sun comes out it wil
l be cold=2C low 40s.
Happy and healthy new year=2C folks!
Yippee! 4.5 months until time to fly to MV.
john h
mkIII
There are lots of places where you could locate some switches=2C such as
overhead=2C below your knees=2C and on some center console=2C but how abou
t the following?..........
A) I need it low=2C so I can see it properly with reading glasses.
B) I need it close=2C about 20" max. Anything further than that=2C and I
can't push the touch-screen with ANY accuracy.
Just a suggestion=2C
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
Message 12
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Subject: | kolb in the distance |
A neighbor with a perverted sense of humor caught me on his cell phone:
(the interceptor is a bird)
no I didn't crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPA1w7FcdiE
BB, devoid of ambition today.
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
.
> This year I pan to fly.[ last year I trailered ] If anyone is planing to
> fly along the interstate 10 route in a slow a/c ,I"m in a---55-60--
> mph firestar & would love to hook up.
> Will leave from Brownsville, TX. If someone knows of a better route than
> Interstate 10, I sure would like to hear about it. This will be my first
> really
> long x country with overnight stops along the way and I'm not too sure
> about the best route.
> Frank Goodnight
Frank G/Gang:
In 1994, I landed at Brownsville on my way around the border to Alaska.
>From there I flew generally up the border to Sanderson, Alpine,
Fabens, and on to El Paso.
Wil Uribe has flown his FS from El Paso to MV several times. He will be
able to help you out on the best recommended route from there.
Congratulations on your planned attempt at a flight that look like about
1,200 sm. Should be a good one.
john h
mkIII
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: kolb in the distance |
> A neighbor with a perverted sense of humor caught me on his cell phone:
>
> (the interceptor is a bird)
> no I didn't crash.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPA1w7FcdiE
>
>
> BB, devoid of ambition today.
BB/Gang:
Good thing the bird didn't attack. He looks bigger than your little bitty
airplane.
john h - With sun shine and 48F. I'm going outside to play.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
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Subject: | Great way to start the year |
Dang, it was cold, temps never made it above freezing. The 582 did not want
to run. I had to hit the primer over and over to keep it running long enough
to warm up, but half way down the runway she took hold and ran like a charm.
I already had the radiator 1/3 blocked off and that let her get up to temps.
I didn't get much flying time, but I started the year off right, none the
less.
Rick Girard
do not archive
Message 16
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Subject: | Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
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This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
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A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kolb-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
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Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
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*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
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In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
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While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
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One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Kolb-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
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*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
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All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb
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**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
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You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
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*** File and Photo Share ***
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With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
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*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
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If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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Subject: | Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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