Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: MV date decided yet? (russ kinne)
2. 06:51 AM - Re: (russ kinne)
3. 09:07 AM - 582 fuel system (mark rinehart)
4. 10:05 AM - Re: 582 fuel system (John Hauck)
5. 10:11 AM - Re: 582 fuel system (Tom Longo)
6. 10:20 AM - Re: 582 fuel system (Dana Hague)
7. 11:09 AM - Re: 582 fuel system (Mike Welch)
8. 12:07 PM - Re: Flying the lazy river on Youtube (Steve Simmons)
9. 12:13 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
10. 12:40 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (lucien)
11. 01:34 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (Mike Welch)
12. 01:47 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (Richard Girard)
13. 02:00 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (John Hauck)
14. 02:42 PM - Fuel pumps in series (Lanny Fetterman)
15. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: 582 fuel system (John Hauck)
16. 03:56 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (lucien)
17. 04:02 PM - Tech. problems with Matronics Kolb list (Carl Tosh)
18. 04:14 PM - Re: Tech. problems with Matronics Kolb list (Matt Dralle)
19. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: 582 fuel system (John Hauck)
20. 08:12 PM - Re: Flying the lazy river on Youtube (cristalclear13)
21. 08:43 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
22. 09:01 PM - Re: 582 fuel system (Mike Welch)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: MV date decided yet? |
John
Happy 2010, and I hope your 'warming trend' has arrived. Nothing
colder than a warm state that gets a sudden cold snap.
I've near-fruz in Pensacola more than once. I feel sorry for the
many people, and kids, who don't have warm clothes or any insulaion
in their houses.
But you have thoughts of MV10 to keep you warm!
Fair winds,
Russ
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Dear Wandering
I'm sure this is legit. That's just What Bears Do! And obviously the
repairs worked. That damage to the rt. horiz. stab. would worry me
the most. Alaska is a great place, and often the FAA up there acts
sensibly.
Have fun, fly safe,
Russ K
do not archive
On Jan 11, 2010, at 12:57 AM, TheWanderingWench wrote:
> This is an amazing tale - and unless someone went to an awful lot
> of trouble to doctor the pics, probably true.
>
> www.thehulltruth.com/dockside-chat/260677-duct-tape-story.html
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Arty
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost pump. I'm
planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he mikuni engine
pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the facet fails
it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw fuel from the tank.
But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and allow the boost pump fuel
to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar systems I'd appreciate your
advice.
Mark Rinehart
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost
pump. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the
he mikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If
the facet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw
fuel from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and
allow the boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar
systems I'd appreciate your advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
Mike R/Gang:
You'll get all kinds of responses to this one.
I started using two mikuni fuel pumps on my first Kolb, an Ultrastar. The
Cuyuna ULII02 had two crank case pressure ports, one for each cylinder. I
ran the Mikunis, one off each port, in series.
Used a back up Facet Electronic boost pump in my 447 powered Firestar
plumbed in series with excellent results. The Mikuni pulled fuel through
the Facet when the Facet was shut down, normally at all times except during
take off, landing, and low level flight.
For the last 3,000 hours (minus 12) I have used a Facet and Mikuni or engine
driven pump plumbed in series on my MKIII with no problems encountered.
Usually, if a Mikuni pulse pump fails, it will be one of two little ears on
the diaphragm that serve as the intake and outlet valves. I know of no
Mikuni diaphragm that has failed to allow fuel to be pumped through it and
outside the pump.
I like the fuel pump plumbed in series. Works for me.
You'll have to choose which way you want to go.
john h
mkIII
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Yes it will, the Mikuni will flow through if it fails to pump also and let
the boost pump keep you flying.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of mark rinehart
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost pump.
I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he
mikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the
facet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw
fuel from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and
allow the boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar
systems I'd appreciate your advice.
Mark Rinehart
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
07:35:00
--
We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
The Professional version does not have this message
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
At 12:05 PM 1/13/2010, mark rinehart wrote:
>
>I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost
>pump. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the
>he mikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If
>the facet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to
>draw fuel from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru
>and allow the boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with
>similar systems I'd appreciate your advice.
If the Mikuni pump's check valves fail, the boost pump will pump fuel
through the pump and keep the engine running. OTOH, if the Mikuni's
diaphragm fails, the boost pump will pump fuel back up the pulse line and
fill the crankcase.
-Dana
--
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a
rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Mark and Kolb guys=2C
I'm curious. I don't have much experience with diaphram pumps and all=2C
but it seems odd to want to design a series fuel pumping system. I mean
=2C I know a series system would work great and all....but how would you kn
ow you lost one of the pumps=2C if the other pump can do all the work?
Let's say=2C for example=2C the last flight you had=2C your primary pump
blew out=2C and the backup kept you flying=2C how would you know??? You'd
be toolin' along thinking you had both pumpers up to snuff=2C but you would
n't.
Unless you verified each and every flight that BOTH pumps were operating
fine=2C you could be relying a false sense of security. Wouldn't you?
If it were me=2C and maybe that's just my way of thinking=2C I think I wo
uld like a parallel fuel system. Here why I think this=3B if my primary s
ystem failed=2C it would kick on the backup system (and a big bright red pa
nel light). The light would alert me that the primary pump needs attention
=2C and when I landed=2C I could take care of the problem=2C but in the mea
ntime=2C my backup is doing it's job.
For a parallel design=2C a primary system could easily have a low-pressur
e switch ($30 McMaster Carr) that if activated (due to a zero or very low f
uel pressure)=2C it would turn on the backup pump.
This method is close to how my turbo "high fuel delivery" fuel system is
designed and operated.
I realize a series fuel system=2C with two fuel pumps=2C CAN work. I kno
w that. But=2C how would you know that every flight both are working prope
rly?
Just some thoughts on the matter.......
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost pum
p. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he m
ikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the fa
cet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw fuel
from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and allow t
he boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar systems I
'd appreciate your advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Flying the lazy river on Youtube |
Hi Dave your photos make me miss the fly I noticed you have put a few more
items in the cockpit.
I have got a Mark III that I have rebuilt and have a few more things to do
to it before I test fly it I should be flying within the next month. I have
a VN 1400 engine on it hope it works out well. I will let you know
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Kulp
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flying the lazy river on Youtube
Hi Steve,
The FlagFly is a total blast. The airstrip where I have it was sold the
first of the year. Butch, the previous owner, said it would remain an
airstrip, but I haven't heard from the new owner yet. I'll attach a couple
of pics flying down and over my house and back to the strip, where my dog is
waiting in the pickup. Sent them to Don G., who built it, and he emailed
back that looking out under those stars and stripes made him "giddy." I
understand why; he did one heck of a fine job building it. The paint job
alone is a labor of love!
Dave
.
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte
r 10-01-03&Archive=Kolb#TOP_MESSAGE> INDEX
Back to Main INDEX
.
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapte
r 10-01-03&Archive=Kolb#MESSAGE2> NEXT
Skip to NEXT Message
.
<mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com?subject=Re:%20Kolb-List:%20Flying%20the%20la
zy%20river%20on%20YoutubeFlying%20the%20lazy%20river%20on%20Youtube> LIST
Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
.
<mailto:%22Steve%20Simmons%22%20%3Cstevesimmons@charter.net%3Eowner-kolb-lis
t-server@matronics.com?subject=Re:%20Kolb-List:%20Flying%20the%20lazy%20rive
r%20on%20YoutubeFlying%20the%20lazy%20river%20on%20Youtube> SENDER
Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
Time:
01:28:56 PM PST US
From:
"Steve Simmons" <stevesimmons@charter.net>
Subject:
Flying the lazy river on Youtube
Hi David How is the Flagfly doing?
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Kulp
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:05 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Flying the lazy river on Youtube
Possums,
Was it you who posted a Youtube video flying down a picturesque river
with
some classy background music?? I saw it in the era when the video
where you
were chasing ducks was posted.
Reason I ask is I have a friend, Jim, who is a pilot for Continental
(and
won this year's Iron Butt Motorcycle Rally - 12,700 miles in 11
days!!) and
I'm trying to whet his appetite for a Kolb. That was one of the best
videos
of low and slow I've seen, and of course a Kolb is one of the best
flyin'
machines to do it in.
Hope you see this because I can't contact you off line. I just got a
new
computer and my primary success in transferring my email address book
from
my external hard drive to my new computer has been to frustrate
myself. Woe
is me! Genuine unadulterated concentrated woe.
Happy New Year to you and everyone on the list!
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
Do Not Archive
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
Mike
Your system sounds great and should work well but I like to keep things
simple.
My fuel system requires a electric fuel pump. I have two electric pumps
in series, one is driven by the ignition circuit. The secondary pump by
separate switched circuit. My starting routine is prime the fuel system
using the back up pump. I watch the fuel flow through a short piece of
transparent fuel line till the float bowls are full. I then turn off the
secondary system and start the engine. I can see fuel flow and hear the
faucet pump running when I turn on the back up pump. I know the back up
pump test works because the faucet pump died a few years back and its
need for replacement was very noticeable. I can hear the primary pump
running when the ignition is turned on. I also know if the primary pump
fails the engine will quit fairly quick and while still on the ground. I
had to disconnect the primary pump power wires to test this. Before
takeoff or landing I turn on the back up pump.
It works for me.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mark and Kolb guys,
I'm curious. I don't have much experience with diaphram pumps and
all, but it seems odd to want to design a series fuel pumping system. I
mean, I know a series system would work great and all....but how would
you know you lost one of the pumps, if the other pump can do all the
work?
Let's say, for example, the last flight you had, your primary pump
blew out, and the backup kept you flying, how would you know??? You'd
be toolin' along thinking you had both pumpers up to snuff, but you
wouldn't.
Unless you verified each and every flight that BOTH pumps were
operating fine, you could be relying a false sense of security.
Wouldn't you?
If it were me, and maybe that's just my way of thinking, I think I
would like a parallel fuel system. Here why I think this; if my
primary system failed, it would kick on the backup system (and a big
bright red panel light). The light would alert me that the primary pump
needs attention, and when I landed, I could take care of the problem,
but in the meantime, my backup is doing it's job.
For a parallel design, a primary system could easily have a
low-pressure switch ($30 McMaster Carr) that if activated (due to a zero
or very low fuel pressure), it would turn on the backup pump.
This method is close to how my turbo "high fuel delivery" fuel
system is designed and operated.
I realize a series fuel system, with two fuel pumps, CAN work. I
know that. But, how would you know that every flight both are working
properly?
Just some thoughts on the matter.......
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet
boost pump. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank
and the he mikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it
simple. If the facet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will
be able to draw fuel from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will
it flow thru and allow the boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of
you with similar systems I'd appreciate your advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Hotmail: Free, trusted and r01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
capt_riney(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost pump.
I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he mikuni
engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the facet fails
it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw fuel from the tank.
But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and allow the boost pump
fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar systems I'd appreciate your
advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
There's generally little advantage to adding the electric pump and a couple of
disadvantages. The mikuni pneumatic pumps are exceedingly reliable and, in a Kolb
installation, provide plenty of vacuum to draw the fuel up from the tank to
the engine.
The primary disadvantages are, in my view, enough to decide against adding the
boost pump:
- the electric pumps add a small amount of drag when off from the check valve.
- additional complexity is added in the form of the electrics, the switch, the
additional procedures to follow for its use.
- more troubleshooting needed when there is a fuel draw problem, as you've already
pretty much correctly alluded to here ;).
As I said, the pneumatic pumps are exceptionally reliable and when simply used
by themselves yeild the simplest and easy to use/maintain system. I've used them
for years and many hundreds of hours and have never had one fail.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281325#281325
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Rick N.=2C
The design of your system sounds like I was asking about. Your ability t
o verify each pump=2C prior to each flight=2C is the kind of assure I was w
ondering about. It appears as though you have everything covered.
But=2C Rick=2C is your fuel delivery a true "series" design?
Mike Welch
From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mike
Your system sounds great and should work well but I like to keep things sim
ple.
My fuel system requires a electric fuel pump. I have two electric pumps in
series=2C one is driven by the ignition circuit. The secondary pump by sepa
rate switched circuit. My starting routine is prime the fuel system using t
he back up pump. I watch the fuel flow through a short piece of transparent
fuel line till the float bowls are full. I then turn off the secondary sys
tem and start the engine. I can see fuel flow and hear the faucet pump runn
ing when I turn on the back up pump. I know the back up pump test works bec
ause the faucet pump died a few years back and its need for replacement was
very noticeable. I can hear the primary pump running when the ignition is
turned on. I also know if the primary pump fails the engine will quit fair
ly quick and while still on the ground. I had to disconnect the primary pum
p power wires to test this. Before takeoff or landing I turn on the back up
pump.
It works for me.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Wednesday=2C January 13=2C 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mark and Kolb guys=2C
I'm curious. I don't have much experience with diaphram pumps and all=2C
but it seems odd to want to design a series fuel pumping system. I mean
=2C I know a series system would work great and all....but how would you kn
ow you lost one of the pumps=2C if the other pump can do all the work?
Let's say=2C for example=2C the last flight you had=2C your primary pump
blew out=2C and the backup kept you flying=2C how would you know??? You'd
be toolin' along thinking you had both pumpers up to snuff=2C but you would
n't.
Unless you verified each and every flight that BOTH pumps were operating
fine=2C you could be relying a false sense of security. Wouldn't you?
If it were me=2C and maybe that's just my way of thinking=2C I think I wo
uld like a parallel fuel system. Here why I think this=3B if my primary s
ystem failed=2C it would kick on the backup system (and a big bright red pa
nel light). The light would alert me that the primary pump needs attention
=2C and when I landed=2C I could take care of the problem=2C but in the mea
ntime=2C my backup is doing it's job.
For a parallel design=2C a primary system could easily have a low-pressur
e switch ($30 McMaster Carr) that if activated (due to a zero or very low f
uel pressure)=2C it would turn on the backup pump.
This method is close to how my turbo "high fuel delivery" fuel system is
designed and operated.
I realize a series fuel system=2C with two fuel pumps=2C CAN work. I kno
w that. But=2C how would you know that every flight both are working prope
rly?
Just some thoughts on the matter.......
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost pum
p. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he m
ikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the fa
cet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw fuel
from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and allow t
he boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar systems I
'd appreciate your advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and r01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
Mike, Richard, et al, I run a Facet in parallel in both my aircraft. I know
it's running when I turn it on before start up by its thumping. I turn it
off to taxi and if the engine dies I know I have a problem with the
pneumatic pump. Once I do a runup and check the mags, I turn the Facet back
on for take off. When I reach my cruising altitude I turn it off until I'm
back in the pattern. I turn it on again for landing. If I'm just staying in
the pattern I leave it on. Never had a problem with either aircraft.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rick N.,
>
> The design of your system sounds like I was asking about. Your ability
> to verify each pump, prior to each flight, is the kind of assure I was
> wondering about. It appears as though you have everything covered.
>
> But, Rick, is your fuel delivery a true "series" design?
>
> Mike Welch
>
> ------------------------------
> From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:12:13 -0500
>
> Mike
>
> Your system sounds great and should work well but I like to keep things
> simple.
>
> My fuel system requires a electric fuel pump. I have two electric pumps in
> series, one is driven by the ignition circuit. The secondary pump by
> separate switched circuit. My starting routine is prime the fuel system
> using the back up pump. I watch the fuel flow through a short piece of
> transparent fuel line till the float bowls are full. I then turn off the
> secondary system and start the engine. I can see fuel flow and hear the
> faucet pump running when I turn on the back up pump. I know the back up
> pump test works because the faucet pump died a few years back and its need
> for replacement was very noticeable. I can hear the primary pump running
> when the ignition is turned on. I also know if the primary pump fails the
> engine will quit fairly quick and while still on the ground. I had to
> disconnect the primary pump power wires to test this. Before takeoff or
> landing I turn on the back up pump.
>
> It works for me.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:04 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
>
> Mark and Kolb guys,
>
> I'm curious. I don't have much experience with diaphram pumps and all,
> but it seems odd to want to design a *series* fuel pumping system. I
> mean, I know a series system would work great and all....but how would you
> know you lost one of the pumps, if the other pump can do all the work?
> Let's say, for example, the last flight you had, your primary pump blew
> out, and the backup kept you flying, how would you know??? You'd be toolin'
> along thinking you had both pumpers up to snuff, but you wouldn't.
>
> Unless you verified each and every flight that BOTH pumps were operating
> fine, you could be relying a false sense of security. Wouldn't you?
>
> If it were me, and maybe that's just my way of thinking, I think I would
> like a parallel fuel system. Here why I think this; if my primary system
> failed, it would kick on the backup system (and a big bright red panel
> light). The light would alert me that the primary pump needs attention, and
> when I landed, I could take care of the problem, but in the meantime, my
> backup is doing it's job.
>
> For a parallel design, a primary system could easily have a low-pressure
> switch ($30 McMaster Carr) that if activated (due to a zero or very low fuel
> pressure), it would turn on the backup pump.
> This method is close to how my turbo "high fuel delivery" fuel system is
> designed and operated.
>
> I realize a *series fuel system*, with two fuel pumps, CAN work. I know
> that. But, how would you know that every flight both are working properly?
>
> Just some thoughts on the matter.......
>
> Mike Welch
> MkIII CX
>
> > I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost
> pump. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he
> mikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the
> facet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw
> fuel from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and
> allow the boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar
> systems I'd appreciate your advice.
> >
> > Mark Rinehart
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and r01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerf/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
Mike W/Gang:
We used standby fuel pumps in series with the main pumps on UH-1 and
AH-1 helicopters, when I was flying them a few years ago, like 35 years
ago.
We checked both during engine start and run up. We left the standby
pump off and started the engine on the main fuel pump. Noting the fuel
pressure on the main, we then turned on the standby. Usually, we would
get a couple pound increase in pressure to let us know the standby was
operational. The fact that the engine started and was running on the
main fuel told us it was operational.
My MKIII is plumbed the same way as the Hueys and Cobras, minus the fuel
pressure gauge. Before engine start I turn on the Facet boost pump to
prime the carbs. I can listen to it and tell when the bowls are full.
Turn it off and crank the engine with the engine driven pump. If the
engine runs on the engine driven pump while I am getting ready to taxi
and takeoff, I am happy with it. To be more exact, I should have a fuel
pressure gauge, but I don't like running a fuel line to the instrument
panel.
john h
mkIII
I realize a series fuel system, with two fuel pumps, CAN work. I
know that. But, how would you know that every flight both are working
properly?
Just some thoughts on the matter.......
Mike Welch
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fuel pumps in series |
Hi All, This is how I know both pumps are working on my FSII. I flip on the
facet while the engine is NOT running. I can hear the pump running and
watch fuel fill the fuel lines running to the carbs, thus verifying that
pump. Then I shut the facet off and start the engine for my warm up this
verifies the diaphragm pump is working. Before I take the active runway I
flip the facet back on for take off and climb out. When I reach my cruising
altitude I flip the facet off again. When I`m ready to land I flip the
facet back on until I shut down the engine at my trailer. In the past I
would let the facet run during the entire flight but my flight instructor
didn`t like that. He felt that if either pump failed in flight, I wouldn`t
be aware of it. I know there are two schools of thought about turning the
facet on and leaving it on and turning it off after climb out. All I can
say is I trust my instructors opinion and do what he advises. Anyway this
procedure works for me. Lanny N398LF
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
> There's generally little advantage to adding the electric pump and a
couple of disadvantages. The mikuni pneumatic pumps are exceedingly reliable
and, in a Kolb installation, provide plenty of vacuum to draw the fuel up
from the tank to the engine.
>
> As I said, the pneumatic pumps are exceptionally reliable and when simply
> used by themselves yeild the simplest and easy to use/maintain system.
> I've used them for years and many hundreds of hours and have never had one
> fail.
>
> LS
Lucien/Gang:
I think the major advantage of having an electric boost pump is when the
Mikuni fails, gives you another chance.
Back in my two stroke days I had a Mikuni fail. Had a cheap Facet copy I
bought from JC Whitney for backup pump, which failed a few hours after I
departed Alabama for the Flight Farm, in Monterey, NY, in 1989. The Mikuni
failed while flying low level around the Flight Farm a few days later.
Lucked out and landed in one of the many hay fields in the area. Murphy
knows when to strike. He is very patient.
Might be complex for some, but pretty simple for most to cut a fuel line,
stick a Facet in there, run a couple wires to the battery and a switch. On
my Firestar, I did not have a battery. Connected the pump through a switch
to my 12VDC buss. Got a Facet to replace the Chinamanese pump when I got
back to Alabama. Trying to save a few dollars cost me a forced landing.
Not much maintenance to a Facet pump. I have had one in my MKIII for a few
hours less than 3,000. Haven't done anything to it since installation in
1991.
These pumps were used as primary lift pumps in many small pickup trucks,
Mazda for one. They have a great track record. Almost as good as Mikuni.
My first little Kubota diesel was built in and around 1975. It uses a
Mikuni pulse pump for a lift pump. It has several thousand hours and 35
years of pumping without failure. If that pump was in my airplane, it would
probably fail next flight. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> Lucien/Gang:
>
> I think the major advantage of having an electric boost pump is when the
> Mikuni fails, gives you another chance.
>
>
Seems like we've kicked around the electric fuel pump issue in the past, but my
memory is a little foggy on it.
To the OP I'd say it's ultimately a matter of personal preference as my reasons
for not liking and thus not using an electric pump (unless it's specifically
called for by the installation) tend to be just matters of my own personal opinion.
I personally prefer the simplest possible systems in critical areas like fuel systems
because they're easier to maintain, less stuff for me to worry about in
flight, easier to catch goofs on and yeild the simplest possible checklists in
the plane. I.e.
fan stops turning:
- go to landing spot
- land
fan gets rough
- go to landing spot
- land
without having to hit extra switches, etc.
etc...
Though I will admit that some of the terrain I've flown over in a couple of my
recent trips did once or twice cause backup systems like an aux. fuel pump to
pop into my mind for a moment.
It did prompt me to go hug a road, which did quite enjoyable extend a flight I
made the other day.
If the WX is good this weekend I'm going to repeat it but this time using that
new route with the road under it ;)
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281354#281354
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Tech. problems with Matronics Kolb list |
Jack and All, I am at wits end . I have not been able to get to the Matronics list
but once in a blue moon. Something has changed this winter. I have been a
member for over a year as I am 19 Yahoo Groups. I have spent over $100. Trying
to figure out why my computer times out (
tcp) message 0r Internet Explorer can't display the page. Site unavailable or other
BS. All other connections work fine just can't get to Matronics the last
few months without all kinds of BS notices. I e-mailed Matt got no where. Called
Wild Blue Dish myIP bought software that didn't WORK. Had A Tech. come out.
Cleaned almost everything out of my computer. I use Yahoo as the web brouser.
Can this also be a case of Barracuda screwing things up? What can I do next?
The Matronics Kolb Site is my favorite place for aircraft related topics. It is
getting ridiculus to try to get here. Sorry for all my ranting but, I may not
be able to get on for a week .
Carl Tosh
--------
mongsterone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281355#281355
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tech. problems with Matronics Kolb list |
Hi Carl,
I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I think that I did respond to your email from
last week, but I answer a lot of list-op related email and I might be remembering
something else.
I'm not sure why you are having such issues connecting to the site. I'm off the
Matronics net right now and am connecting in and viewing the Matronics Forums
without issue or delay.
You didn't specifically describe the methods you were trying to access the Lists. Are the problems with WEB access to the forums site? Or with posting and/or receiving email via the traditional email lists? What about accessing the traditional List search engine and/or List Browse? http://www.matronics.com/search http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
--------
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281357#281357
Message 19
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
> Though I will admit that some of the terrain I've flown over in a couple
of my recent trips did once or twice cause backup systems like an aux. fuel
pump to pop into my mind for a moment.
> It did prompt me to go hug a road, which did quite enjoyable extend a
> flight I made the other day.
> If the WX is good this weekend I'm going to repeat it but this time using
> that new route with the road under it ;)
>
> LS
Lucien/Gang:
Based on altitude and terrain, I will turn on the boost pump is necessary.
The Facet is rated for continuous duty. Could leave it on all the time.
If I am scared the engine is going to stop at any moment, I'll follow a road
or other suitable forced landing area, if there is one.
Normally, flying with a 912UL or a 912ULS, I fly direct.
Aren't you flying a Titan with 912?
john h
mkIII
Message 20
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Flying the lazy river on Youtube |
undoctor wrote:
> Sent them to Don G., who built it, and he emailed back that looking out under
those stars and stripes made him "giddy." I understand why; he did one heck
of a fine job building it. The paint job alone is a labor of love!
>
> Dave
That paint job is amazing. I really like it.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281386#281386
Message 21
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: 582 fuel system |
Mike
Yes the system is true "series" design.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Rick N.,
The design of your system sounds like I was asking about. Your
ability to verify each pump, prior to each flight, is the kind of assure
I was wondering about. It appears as though you have everything
covered.
But, Rick, is your fuel delivery a true "series" design?
Mike Welch
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:12:13 -0500
Mike
Your system sounds great and should work well but I like to keep
things simple.
My fuel system requires a electric fuel pump. I have two electric
pumps in series, one is driven by the ignition circuit. The secondary
pump by separate switched circuit. My starting routine is prime the fuel
system using the back up pump. I watch the fuel flow through a short
piece of transparent fuel line till the float bowls are full. I then
turn off the secondary system and start the engine. I can see fuel flow
and hear the faucet pump running when I turn on the back up pump. I know
the back up pump test works because the faucet pump died a few years
back and its need for replacement was very noticeable. I can hear the
primary pump running when the ignition is turned on. I also know if the
primary pump fails the engine will quit fairly quick and while still on
the ground. I had to disconnect the primary pump power wires to test
this. Before takeoff or landing I turn on the back up pump.
It works for me.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mark and Kolb guys,
I'm curious. I don't have much experience with diaphram pumps and
all, but it seems odd to want to design a series fuel pumping system. I
mean, I know a series system would work great and all....but how would
you know you lost one of the pumps, if the other pump can do all the
work?
Let's say, for example, the last flight you had, your primary pump
blew out, and the backup kept you flying, how would you know??? You'd
be toolin' along thinking you had both pumpers up to snuff, but you
wouldn't.
Unless you verified each and every flight that BOTH pumps were
operating fine, you could be relying a false sense of security.
Wouldn't you?
If it were me, and maybe that's just my way of thinking, I think I
would like a parallel fuel system. Here why I think this; if my
primary system failed, it would kick on the backup system (and a big
bright red panel light). The light would alert me that the primary pump
needs attention, and when I landed, I could take care of the problem,
but in the meantime, my backup is doing it's job.
For a parallel design, a primary system could easily have a
low-pressure switch ($30 McMaster Carr) that if activated (due to a zero
or very low fuel pressure), it would turn on the backup pump.
This method is close to how my turbo "high fuel delivery" fuel
system is designed and operated.
I realize a series fuel system, with two fuel pumps, CAN work. I
know that. But, how would you know that every flight both are working
properly?
Just some thoughts on the matter.......
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet
boost pump. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank
and the he mikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it
simple. If the facet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will
be able to draw fuel from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will
it flow thru and allow the boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of
you with similar systems I'd appreciate your advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Hotmail: Free, trusted and r01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerf/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
Message 22
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Rick=2C Rick=2C John=2C Lucien=2C etc=2C and others=2C
Like I said=2C I don't know much about the 582 delivery systems=2C but it
sounds like you guys have it figured out.
My concern was not knowing if you had a failure in a two pump system=2C b
ut as long as you can easily verify each pump is working properly=2C then i
t sounds like you're in good shape.
Mike Welch
From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mike
Yes the system is true "series" design.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Wednesday=2C January 13=2C 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Rick N.=2C
The design of your system sounds like I was asking about. Your ability t
o verify each pump=2C prior to each flight=2C is the kind of assure I was w
ondering about. It appears as though you have everything covered.
But=2C Rick=2C is your fuel delivery a true "series" design?
Mike Welch
From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mike
Your system sounds great and should work well but I like to keep things sim
ple.
My fuel system requires a electric fuel pump. I have two electric pumps in
series=2C one is driven by the ignition circuit. The secondary pump by sepa
rate switched circuit. My starting routine is prime the fuel system using t
he back up pump. I watch the fuel flow through a short piece of transparent
fuel line till the float bowls are full. I then turn off the secondary sys
tem and start the engine. I can see fuel flow and hear the faucet pump runn
ing when I turn on the back up pump. I know the back up pump test works bec
ause the faucet pump died a few years back and its need for replacement was
very noticeable. I can hear the primary pump running when the ignition is
turned on. I also know if the primary pump fails the engine will quit fair
ly quick and while still on the ground. I had to disconnect the primary pum
p power wires to test this. Before takeoff or landing I turn on the back up
pump.
It works for me.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Wednesday=2C January 13=2C 2010 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 582 fuel system
Mark and Kolb guys=2C
I'm curious. I don't have much experience with diaphram pumps and all=2C
but it seems odd to want to design a series fuel pumping system. I mean
=2C I know a series system would work great and all....but how would you kn
ow you lost one of the pumps=2C if the other pump can do all the work?
Let's say=2C for example=2C the last flight you had=2C your primary pump
blew out=2C and the backup kept you flying=2C how would you know??? You'd
be toolin' along thinking you had both pumpers up to snuff=2C but you would
n't.
Unless you verified each and every flight that BOTH pumps were operating
fine=2C you could be relying a false sense of security. Wouldn't you?
If it were me=2C and maybe that's just my way of thinking=2C I think I wo
uld like a parallel fuel system. Here why I think this=3B if my primary s
ystem failed=2C it would kick on the backup system (and a big bright red pa
nel light). The light would alert me that the primary pump needs attention
=2C and when I landed=2C I could take care of the problem=2C but in the mea
ntime=2C my backup is doing it's job.
For a parallel design=2C a primary system could easily have a low-pressur
e switch ($30 McMaster Carr) that if activated (due to a zero or very low f
uel pressure)=2C it would turn on the backup pump.
This method is close to how my turbo "high fuel delivery" fuel system is
designed and operated.
I realize a series fuel system=2C with two fuel pumps=2C CAN work. I kno
w that. But=2C how would you know that every flight both are working prope
rly?
Just some thoughts on the matter.......
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
> I've got a series or parallel question about installing a facet boost pum
p. I'm planning on intalling a facet pump between my fuel tank and the he m
ikuni engine pump. I'm doing it in series just to keep it simple. If the fa
cet fails it should still flow thru so the mikuni will be able to draw fuel
from the tank. But what if the mikuni fails? Will it flow thru and allow t
he boost pump fuel to get to the carbs? Those of you with similar systems I
'd appreciate your advice.
>
> Mark Rinehart
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and r01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerf/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|