Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:45 AM - Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... (lucien)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... (Thom Riddle)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: AD insurance (Thom Riddle)
4. 07:15 AM - Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... (lucien)
5. 09:50 AM - Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (Dana Hague)
6. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (russ kinne)
7. 10:30 AM - Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (Jack B. Hart)
8. 10:47 AM - Re: map orientation (Mike Welch)
9. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: map orientation (Robert Laird)
10. 11:08 AM - map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (lucien)
11. 11:22 AM - Re: map orientation (Thom Riddle)
12. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (robert bean)
13. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: map orientation (Robert Laird)
14. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (russ kinne)
15. 02:16 PM - map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (Thom Riddle)
16. 06:24 PM - Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance (robert bean)
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> Lucien/Gang:
>
> That's ok. Most of us have been using aux pumps in all kinds of aircraft
> for many years without experiencing pilot overload. ;-)
>
> We have beat this subject to death, over the years, on the Kolb List. Don't
> think it hurts anything though, because we have new folks come on board all
> the time, and they probably have not been subjected to this information.
>
> I've been using aux pumps since my Ultrastar days. I used two Mikuni pumps.
> The Cuyuna had two crankcase ports for that reason.
>
> The Pierberg fuel pump (used on Opel, Taunus, etc., automobiles for years)
> has always had a larger intake nipple than the outlet nipple. Won't hurt
> anything to use 5/16" fuel line on the intake side, however, I have always
> used 1/4" with success. My 912ULS is happy with the fuel provided by the
> engine driven pump, alone, sucking through a 1/4" line, at altitudes over
> 14,500 feet above sea level, for an hour and longer. That is good enough
> for me. This is backed up by nearly 3,000 912 hours operating with the same
> system. I am convinced it works well.
>
> I'd change my intake fuel line to 5/16", but it would require three new
> nipples and a lot of difficult work to access and replace. I don't bend
> like I used to.
>
> There are a lot of food Kolb builders and flyers on this List with many
> years and many hours of experience. We have learned a lot, over the years,
> about our little airplanes and engines.
>
> john h
> mkIII - Under tornado (not Titan) watch at hauck's holler, alabama.
I'm slowly making my way through the 912 manuals, mostly we concentrate on the
maintenance and operator's manualss but there's a surprising amount of good info
in the installation manual that has to do with basic operation.
Just going through that manual alone, I've found several things I've had to review
how it's done on my plane already, i.e. how the carburettor vent lines were
handled and now the 5/16" ID line on the vacuum side. I've also had no trouble
with just 1/4" and changing it is a low priority item right now.
But it was an interesting find for me, anyway.
As for an electric pump, I do want to add a gascolator at some point. Again I havn't
had any trouble but now that I run E10 almost exclusively I'd probably feel
a little safer with a gascolator in the line eventually. At that point, I'll
probably add a backup electric pump along with.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... |
Lucien,
I'm glad you are not forgetting the installation manual because, as you said, there
is much in there that is not (but should be) in the other manuals. If I
were Rotax I'd combine them all into a single manual thereby eliminating the redundancy
and making sure anyone who has the manual has it all.
Jabiru is similar in this regard. They have a "do not operate for extended time"
rpm range in the installation manual that does not appear in the operators'
manual, where it should also be unless it only applies to engine break-in period,
which is not made clear in either manual. On the plus side, Jabiru includes
their equivalent to a line maintenance manual in their operators' manual.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: AD insurance |
We Kolbers seem to have a bad habit of changing threads without changing subject
lines.
Regarding flying chart orientation, I spent most my working life doing machine
design, the first 20 years or so on a drawing board and the last part doing 3-D
modeling on computers. I've hired a few "draftsmen trainees" over the years
and found that the innate ability to re-orient shapes in your mind is NOT universal.
This ability is a flat out requirement for being a draftsman or mechanical
designer. Without it you can't really visualize what the various 2-d orthographic
drawing views mean in 3-D space.
I finally uncovered a study done that came up with a meaningful statistic. Only
about 1 in 7 people have the innate ability to re-orient shapes in their mind
correctly. Those who have this innate ability have no trouble with following
the chart with North UP. Those without this ability find it easier to have the
chart oriented according to your track across the ground. This does not mean
those without this ability are not good pilots (has nothing to do with pilot
skills) but it does have something to say about what works or does not work for
an individual regarding chart orientation.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Lucien,
>
> I'm glad you are not forgetting the installation manual because, as you said,
there is much in there that is not (but should be) in the other manuals. If
I were Rotax I'd combine them all into a single manual thereby eliminating the
redundancy and making sure anyone who has the manual has it all.
>
> Jabiru is similar in this regard. They have a "do not operate for extended time"
rpm range in the installation manual that does not appear in the operators'
manual, where it should also be unless it only applies to engine break-in period,
which is not made clear in either manual. On the plus side, Jabiru includes
their equivalent to a line maintenance manual in their operators' manual.
Agreed. I do kind of wonder about some of the things. For instance, the MOI limits
on the prop are listed in the installation manual in 18.1 and surprisingly,
to me when I first read it anyway, the MOI limit on the 912 is the same as the
2-stroke C box! Makes you scratch your head a little.
There's also a caution "Never fit propellor directly on crankshaft", which looks
like an, er, cut-n-paste error from the 2-stroke manuals. There's no way I know
of to fit a prop onto the 912 crankshaft (at least not without a lot of disassembly
of the motor and effort in general ;)).
So I am a little skeptical about some of the things I'm reading. But there's stuff
like this in the 2-stroke manuals too, like the off-by-almost-100F CHT ranges
and limits......
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283342#283342
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
At 09:54 AM 1/25/2010, Thom Riddle wrote:
>Regarding flying chart orientation, I spent most my working life doing
>machine design, the first 20 years or so on a drawing board and the last
>part doing 3-D modeling on computers. I've hired a few "draftsmen
>trainees" over the years and found that the innate ability to re-orient
>shapes in your mind is NOT universal. This ability is a flat out
>requirement for being a draftsman or mechanical designer. Without it you
>can't really visualize what the various 2-d orthographic drawing views
>mean in 3-D space.
>
>I finally uncovered a study done that came up with a meaningful statistic.
>Only about 1 in 7 people have the innate ability to re-orient shapes in
>their mind correctly. Those who have this innate ability have no trouble
>with following the chart with North UP...
Interesting. I never saw a study, but it makes sense. I too have been a
machine designer for years; I also taught 3D CAD. I found that some people
(including myself) could easily look at the screen showing an isometric
view while visualizing what's happening on a construction plane oriented
to, say, the left side. Others had great difficulty and had to set the
screen to a left view. I never understood why they had so much trouble,
but maybe it's that "1 in 7" thing.
Similar in R/C flying. In some ways R/C is more difficult than real
planes, as you have to visualize what the plane is doing even when it's
flying towards you (airplane left is your right). Again, I have no
trouble, but some guys would turn away from the plane and look at it over
their shoulder when it was approaching them on a landing approach. Perhaps
R/C flying helped me learn to visualize a design (I KNOW building R/C's
helped me as a machine designer!)
But I still orient the map to my direction of flight, out of sheer habit
since I learned that way.
-Dana
do not archive
--
To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
Don't know if I'm the 1 in 7, but in moving many many boats over the
years, I always use North-up. Drives some owners nuts, esp. newbies.
Even in a winding river I find it more accurate, readable and
'friendly'. In fact, especially there.
But in the air I often find myself turning the chart so what I see
in front of me is what's on the chart, right-side up.
But that's me. Whatever works.
I do agree that R/C flying is lots more challenging than piloting a
'big' plane. I'll never forget the precision night flying of R/C's at
TNK.
Russ K
do not archive
On Jan 25, 2010, at 12:47 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> At 09:54 AM 1/25/2010, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
>> Regarding flying chart orientation, I spent most my working life
>> doing machine design, the first 20 years or so on a drawing board
>> and the last part doing 3-D modeling on computers. I've hired a
>> few "draftsmen trainees" over the years and found that the innate
>> ability to re-orient shapes in your mind is NOT universal. This
>> ability is a flat out requirement for being a draftsman or
>> mechanical designer. Without it you can't really visualize what
>> the various 2-d orthographic drawing views mean in 3-D space.
>>
>> I finally uncovered a study done that came up with a meaningful
>> statistic. Only about 1 in 7 people have the innate ability to re-
>> orient shapes in their mind correctly. Those who have this innate
>> ability have no trouble with following the chart with North UP...
>
> Interesting. I never saw a study, but it makes sense. I too have
> been a machine designer for years; I also taught 3D CAD. I found
> that some people (including myself) could easily look at the screen
> showing an isometric view while visualizing what's happening on a
> construction plane oriented to, say, the left side. Others had
> great difficulty and had to set the screen to a left view. I never
> understood why they had so much trouble, but maybe it's that "1 in
> 7" thing.
>
> Similar in R/C flying. In some ways R/C is more difficult than
> real planes, as you have to visualize what the plane is doing even
> when it's flying towards you (airplane left is your right). Again,
> I have no trouble, but some guys would turn away from the plane and
> look at it over their shoulder when it was approaching them on a
> landing approach. Perhaps R/C flying helped me learn to visualize
> a design (I KNOW building R/C's helped me as a machine designer!)
>
> But I still orient the map to my direction of flight, out of sheer
> habit since I learned that way.
>
> -Dana
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --
> To Be Old And Wise You Must First Be Young And Stupid
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
I have always flown with the map oriented in the direction of flight. Less
translation in the thought process, and I need the help as I have left right
hand problems.
The mind can be a tricky thing. When I first started to fly to outlying
airports, I could not find them. I would approach at 3,000 feet agl and the
GPS said they were there, but I could not see them. What I discovered was
that at that altitude I was looking much too far ahead. After several
misses and making tight circles, I learned where to start looking, ten miles
out, and the problem of airport identification disappeared.
Also, I used to fly some 50+ miles from Perryville Municipal Airport to
Painton, MO for my monthly EAA chapter meetings. After a while I did not
need the GPS, but it was important to fly the shortest distance to conserve
fuel. I would just pick a spot on the horizon and fly to it. I got so I
knew just about every tree, building and farm animal on the route. But
several times, I became distracted inside the cockpit and when I
reestablished my outside view, I found I didn't recognize anything. After
glancing at the compass and turning the FireFly back to the correct course,
immediately, I recognized where I was.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation |
>Don't know if I'm the 1 in 7=2C but.........
>Russ K
>do not archive
Russ=2C
Anybody can visualize in 2D=2C and some can visualize in 3D=2C but only a
few of us can visualize in 4D!!!!
I can track with the map oriented with the ground=2C AND do it on Tuesday
at 2:45pm!
Now THAT'S settin' things straight. (LOL)
Mike Welch
Please do not archive my attempt at humor
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation |
I fly using the principles of string theory, so I, therefore, track in 11
dimensions.... unless, of course, you're talking about bosonic string
theory, and then it's in 26 dimensions. :-p
-- Robert
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>wrote:
> >Don't know if I'm the 1 in 7, but.........
> >Russ K
> >do not archive
>
> Russ,
>
> Anybody can visualize in 2D, and some can visualize in 3D, but only a few
> of us can visualize in 4D!!!!
>
> I can track with the map oriented with the ground, AND do it on Tuesday
> at 2:45pm!
>
> Now THAT'S settin' things straight. (LOL)
>
> Mike Welch
> Please do not archive my attempt at humor
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail: Free, tru08/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote:
>
> The mind can be a tricky thing. When I first started to fly to outlying
> airports, I could not find them. I would approach at 3,000 feet agl and the
> GPS said they were there, but I could not see them. What I discovered was
> that at that altitude I was looking much too far ahead. After several
> misses and making tight circles, I learned where to start looking, ten miles
> out, and the problem of airport identification disappeared.
>
> Also, I used to fly some 50+ miles from Perryville Municipal Airport to
> Painton, MO for my monthly EAA chapter meetings. After a while I did not
> need the GPS, but it was important to fly the shortest distance to conserve
> fuel. I would just pick a spot on the horizon and fly to it. I got so I
> knew just about every tree, building and farm animal on the route. But
> several times, I became distracted inside the cockpit and when I
> reestablished my outside view, I found I didn't recognize anything. After
> glancing at the compass and turning the FireFly back to the correct course,
> immediately, I recognized where I was.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
> do not archive
Interesting..... based on this kind of data I may be one of the 1 in 7.
I also found r/c to be significantly more challenging than full-scale (in fact
full-scale is a cinch compared to r/c, IME) but I never had to do any wierd visualizing.
I got used to the reversed/semi-reversed controls of the plane in the
different orientations fairly quickly (tho I had to use mental mnemonics for
this for quite a while). Even with r/c helicopters I was able to figure out
nose-in vs. tail-in vs. side-on hovering and flying fairly well.
Tho I do find the ground-orientation of the map method to be a lot easier.
I do the same thing with airports tho. I went to an airport down south a few weeks
ago, I was actually at about 5000' AGL as I approached it and was looking
for it by my estimation at least 5 miles further away than it actually was. When
I spotted it, it was a lot closer. Almost had to idle down to pattern altitude....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation |
I use the prehistoric string theory.... the one where you string a string between
your destination and current location and pull it tight, not the advanced (and
perhaps fictitious) physics strings. In our macro-world of low and slow flight
even the great circle is not of much use to us as Kolbers.
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing
armies.
- Thomas Jefferson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283402#283402
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
I imagine they would have a hard time selling auto GPSs perpetually oriented to
the north.
BB
do not archive
On 25, Jan 2010, at 1:27 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>
> I have always flown with the map oriented in the direction of flight. Less
> translation in the thought process, and I need the help as I have left right
> hand problems.
>
> The mind can be a tricky thing. When I first started to fly to outlying
> airports, I could not find them. I would approach at 3,000 feet agl and the
> GPS said they were there, but I could not see them. What I discovered was
> that at that altitude I was looking much too far ahead. After several
> misses and making tight circles, I learned where to start looking, ten miles
> out, and the problem of airport identification disappeared.
>
> Also, I used to fly some 50+ miles from Perryville Municipal Airport to
> Painton, MO for my monthly EAA chapter meetings. After a while I did not
> need the GPS, but it was important to fly the shortest distance to conserve
> fuel. I would just pick a spot on the horizon and fly to it. I got so I
> knew just about every tree, building and farm animal on the route. But
> several times, I became distracted inside the cockpit and when I
> reestablished my outside view, I found I didn't recognize anything. After
> glancing at the compass and turning the FireFly back to the correct course,
> immediately, I recognized where I was.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation |
It's gonna look awfully funny with you trying to hold that string up to the
GPS! ;-)
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I use the prehistoric string theory.... the one where you string a string
> between your destination and current location and pull it tight, not the
> advanced (and perhaps fictitious) physics strings. In our macro-world of low
> and slow flight even the great circle is not of much use to us as Kolbers.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
BB
I suspect you're right, but my GPS is always oriented north in
plane, car or boat. I seldom get lost! -- and not Garmin's fault when
I do.
Russ
do not archive
On Jan 25, 2010, at 3:18 PM, robert bean wrote:
>
> I imagine they would have a hard time selling auto GPSs perpetually
> oriented to the north.
> BB
> do not archive
>
> On 25, Jan 2010, at 1:27 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
>
>> <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
>>
>> I have always flown with the map oriented in the direction of
>> flight. Less
>> translation in the thought process, and I need the help as I have
>> left right
>> hand problems.
>>
>> The mind can be a tricky thing. When I first started to fly to
>> outlying
>> airports, I could not find them. I would approach at 3,000 feet
>> agl and the
>> GPS said they were there, but I could not see them. What I
>> discovered was
>> that at that altitude I was looking much too far ahead. After
>> several
>> misses and making tight circles, I learned where to start looking,
>> ten miles
>> out, and the problem of airport identification disappeared.
>>
>> Also, I used to fly some 50+ miles from Perryville Municipal
>> Airport to
>> Painton, MO for my monthly EAA chapter meetings. After a while I
>> did not
>> need the GPS, but it was important to fly the shortest distance to
>> conserve
>> fuel. I would just pick a spot on the horizon and fly to it. I
>> got so I
>> knew just about every tree, building and farm animal on the
>> route. But
>> several times, I became distracted inside the cockpit and when I
>> reestablished my outside view, I found I didn't recognize
>> anything. After
>> glancing at the compass and turning the FireFly back to the
>> correct course,
>> immediately, I recognized where I was.
>>
>> Jack B. Hart FF004
>> Winchester, IN
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
My Tom-Tom allows the user to specify orientation like my Lowrance 2000C. And,
like my flying GPS, I keep my car GPS on North is up orientation. Just my preference.
Lots of folks don't come close to understanding the compass directions.
If I tell my wife to turn west, she has no idea which way that is, so I tell
her to turn toward Lake Erie for west. She just wants to know right or left,
which of course depends upon which way you are already headed. One of my daughters
gets compass directions but the other one doesn't. Directions are really
hard for a lot of people.... I am guessing about 6 out of 7 :-).
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing
armies.
- Thomas Jefferson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283428#283428
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| Subject: | Re: map orientation, was: Re: AD insurance |
That's why I don't venture far from home. :)
Being of a stone age nature my GPS is a garmin handheld etrex. The little pointy
thing tells me which way to go,
that is if I bring it along. I have to admiit to being of the lay the map to match
the terrain type of guy too.
When I'm building something I can image it in my mind but turning it upside down
would confuzzle me.
BB
do not archive
On 25, Jan 2010, at 5:15 PM, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
> My Tom-Tom allows the user to specify orientation like my Lowrance 2000C. And,
like my flying GPS, I keep my car GPS on North is up orientation. Just my preference.
Lots of folks don't come close to understanding the compass directions.
If I tell my wife to turn west, she has no idea which way that is, so I tell
her to turn toward Lake Erie for west. She just wants to know right or left,
which of course depends upon which way you are already headed. One of my daughters
gets compass directions but the other one doesn't. Directions are really
hard for a lot of people.... I am guessing about 6 out of 7 :-).
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x31
>
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than
standing armies.
> - Thomas Jefferson
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283428#283428
>
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