Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sat 01/30/10


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:46 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (lucien)
     2. 06:18 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (robert bean)
     3. 06:40 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
     4. 07:04 AM - Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings (Bob Kravis)
     5. 07:39 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (lucien)
     6. 08:10 AM - Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
     7. 09:39 AM - Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings (Richard Girard)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:46:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    John Hauck wrote: > Rick/Gang: > > You guys that are working on alternative engines need to get them operational and get some hours on them. Make some significant flights. Fly them to Oshkosh, Lakeland, and other flyins. Show folks you have something to compete with the performance and reliability of the 912 series engines, by getting out there and doing it. By getting out there and putting hours and miles on them, you encourage others to do the same. > > john hauck > mkIII > titus, alabama > Agreed. The problem Rotax has always presented to their competitors is that they work at the job of cranking props on airplanes. Somehow they've solved this particular problem on their engines. In the 2-stroke market, the Rotax were (and still are) the only models that could truly do continuous high power without burning up or spooling up parts. You pretty much just bolt them on and go fly, and they run for a pretty well known legnth of time before needing something major done to them. The early (non-provision) models were basically sno-mo conversions with pretty much the only difference being the exhaust. Those did break cranks and had occasional cooling problems. But those problems were solved with the provision 4 and then 8 crankcases and new crankshafts, along with the introduction of the gearboxes. The C box is probably the best 2-stroke gearbox design on the market. Now you literally just hoist it out of the box, bolt it to the plane, hook it up, break it in and go fly. None of the competitors that I know of can really boast that at the current time. As for the 912, it's pretty much the same thing. We know how to run them, install them, jet them and prop them. In light aircraft 4-strokes, the only competitor I know of that's approaching that is Jabiru. But they're still working the bugs out, still some kind of scary problems going on there from what I've been able to gather about them. And they don't have a PSRU, which you'd really need to use them on a plane like the Kolb due to their still relatively high-rpm operation. So.... I hate to say this, but you really do get an awful lot for your 20 grand when you buy a 912 and same with any of the Rotax 2-strokes. Most of the grunt work as far as installation, running, etc., has already been done for you. There's a lot more to it than just the engine itself. It's all the other knowledge and debugging that's already gone into them. Unfortunately, Rotax is still at the top of the heap as far as all these extras go. So in my view that's kind of what the competitors are up against and why so many of them have failed. And the aviation market is not something fun to try to sell anything into what with all the litigation and such garbage you have to deal with.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284026#284026


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:18:32 AM PST US
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
    John and all, I'll bet Rick N. WOULD take a free 912. -even without the hugs and kisses. And so would I. But part of the alternative engine story is a willingness to experiment with an experimental airplane to take advantage of the very liberal regulations that we enjoy in the USA. Somehow buying a kit and inserting tab A into slot B according to the instructions and bolting on a ready to run engine doesn't quite fill the bill. Different strokes for.... I've been primarily a local hop flyer and doubt I'll ever change. Just the thrill of getting off the ground and enjoying the earth from a vantage point most never get satisfies me. Grinding off the miles isn't my thing. Don't like long trips in cars either. -Did that transcontinental stuff a couple times as a youth, -no more. Even the ride at 30,000' and 530 MPH in a Boeing takes too long to get to Florida. I'd need at least mach 3. The last part of not putting more time and $$$ into an airplane is two-fold. I'll be 70 next birthday and won't be getting involved in another long project. Don't want to be a one trick pony, there are other things to do. I can push the Kolb out any time I want, go for a bike (pedals) ride, hiking, stuff that doesn't require sitting and burning gasoline and is good for you. -while I still can. BB do not archive On 30, Jan 2010, at 1:20 AM, John Hauck wrote: > Rick/Gang: > > I understand completely, and was being somewhat facetious in some of my comments about you and 912 engines. > > If I had access to a 4 stroke alternative engine that would provide as good performance, service, and reliability as the 912 series engines, for a lot less money, I'd be the first in line to get one. > > You guys that are working on alternative engines need to get them operational and get some hours on them. Make some significant flights. Fly them to Oshkosh, Lakeland, and other flyins. Show folks you have something to compete with the performance and reliability of the 912 series engines, by getting out there and doing it. By getting out there and putting hours and miles on them, you encourage others to do the same. > > john hauck > mkIII > titus, alabama > > Yes I was impressed with your airplane it flew better than I imagined at Monument Valley, thanks again for the ride. But Mike Welch summed it up well. Some people just can't afford the price of a 912 Rotax. My goal is to lower the cost of safe flying so more people can. > > Rick Neilsen > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:40:59 AM PST US
    From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" <NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
    John Yes, maybe I wasn't clear, if someone hint hint .....wants to GIVE me a free 912 I could figure a way to get it mounted on my improved engine mount. Or... I could sell it and build another plane. My wife says no more planes without going back to work. Do not archive Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bean To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Alternitive Kolb Engines John and all, I'll bet Rick N. WOULD take a free 912. -even without the hugs and kisses. And so would I. But part of the alternative engine story is a willingness to experiment with an experimental airplane to take advantage of the very liberal regulations that we enjoy in the USA. Somehow buying a kit and inserting tab A into slot B according to the instructions and bolting on a ready to run engine doesn't quite fill the bill. Different strokes for.... I've been primarily a local hop flyer and doubt I'll ever change. Just the thrill of getting off the ground and enjoying the earth from a vantage point most never get satisfies me. Grinding off the miles isn't my thing. Don't like long trips in cars either. -Did that transcontinental stuff a couple times as a youth, -no more. Even the ride at 30,000' and 530 MPH in a Boeing takes too long to get to Florida. I'd need at least mach 3. The last part of not putting more time and $$$ into an airplane is two-fold. I'll be 70 next birthday and won't be getting involved in another long project. Don't want to be a one trick pony, there are other things to do. I can push the Kolb out any time I want, go for a bike (pedals) ride, hiking, stuff that doesn't require sitting and burning gasoline and is good for you. -while I still can. BB do not archive On 30, Jan 2010, at 1:20 AM, John Hauck wrote: Rick/Gang: I understand completely, and was being somewhat facetious in some of my comments about you and 912 engines. If I had access to a 4 stroke alternative engine that would provide as good performance, service, and reliability as the 912 series engines, for a lot less money, I'd be the first in line to get one. You guys that are working on alternative engines need to get them operational and get some hours on them. Make some significant flights. Fly them to Oshkosh, Lakeland, and other flyins. Show folks you have something to compete with the performance and reliability of the 912 series engines, by getting out there and doing it. By getting out there and putting hours and miles on them, you encourage others to do the same. john hauck mkIII titus, alabama Yes I was impressed with your airplane it flew better than I imagined at Monument Valley, thanks again for the ride. But Mike Welch summed it up well. Some people just can't afford the price of a 912 Rotax. My goal is to lower the cost of safe flying so more people can. Rick Neilsen href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:04:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings
    From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com>
    I am going to attempt to create a Firefly for the simulator. To let me fly next to the woodstove as it is -4 degrees here in Greenville, Maine this morning. To start the project I need front, top and side views with dimensions. If anybody has these and could scan them and email them to me I would greatly appreciate the help. Also it would be more accurate if I could pick an airfoil that approximates the actual one used. Any suggestions? Bob


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:39:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
    From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com>
    slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > John and all, I'll bet Rick N. WOULD take a free 912. -even without the hugs and kisses. And so would I.But part of the alternative engine story is a willingness to experiment with an experimental airplane to > take advantage of the very liberal regulations that we enjoy in the USA. Somehow buying a kit and > inserting tab A into slot B according to the instructions and bolting on a ready to run engine doesn't quite fill the bill. > > > Different strokes for.... I've been primarily a local hop flyer and doubt I'll ever change. Just the thrill of getting off the ground > and enjoying the earth from a vantage point most never get satisfies me. Grinding off the miles isn't my thing. Don't like > long trips in cars either. -Did that transcontinental stuff a couple times as a youth, -no more. > Even the ride at 30,000' and 530 MPH in a Boeing takes too long to get to Florida. I'd need at least mach 3. > > > The last part of not putting more time and $$$ into an airplane is two-fold. I'll be 70 next birthday and won't be getting > involved in another long project. Don't want to be a one trick pony, there are other things to do. I can push the Kolb > out any time I want, go for a bike (pedals) ride, hiking, stuff that doesn't require sitting and burning gasoline and is good for you. > -while I still can. > BB > do not archive > I probably should say I wasn't trying to detract from you true experimenters out there, without whom we wouldn't be where we are today. Shortly before I left TX I got to spend some time with a local who was putting a mazda 20B rotary in a lancair. That was a simply amazing piece of work and engineering (it did eventually fly and to my knowledge is still flying). Also, I can barely even put tab A into slot B, so I can only imagine what life would be like with both an experimental plane _and_ engine for those first few hours...... OTOH, I remember when I replaced the engine on my FS II shortly after I bought it. The entire replacement job was done in a day and the plane was flying normally at the end of the next.... I've been doing more cross-country flying lately, at least until the WX stopped me, to get back into it and relearning how to navigate, manage weather etc. I do tend to like the fact that the engine is a fully tested quantity in those situations and the plane too (since I didn't build it). My remaining big goal in this life to build my own and fly that - for that, tho, the truly experimental part will be my workmanship on the plane and likely not the engine. So I'll have to go with something tried/true there. But guys like Rick et. al. who do experiment with the engine too have my undying and individed respect for sure, abilities and gumption that I can only aspire to..... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284038#284038


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:10:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings
    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
    Bob Kravis I think if you look in Jack B.Harts web site you will find the info you ar e looking for here is a link to his site http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly.html Ellery Batchelder Jr. in Maine Mk3C N213 582 Blue head Garmin AERA -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 30, 2010 10:00 am Subject: Kolb-List: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings I am going to attempt to create a Firefly for the simulator. To let me fl y next to the woodstove as it is -4 degrees here in Greenville, Maine this morning. To start the project I need front, top and side views with dimensions. If anybody has these and could scan them and email them to me I would greatl y appreciate the help. Also it would be more accurate if I could pick an airfoil that approximate s the actual one used. Any suggestions? Bob ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== ===========


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:39:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Bob, I can't help you with the airplane, but the closest I've ever found for any of the Kolb airfoils is the NACA 66 from the mid 1920's. Rick Girard On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com> wrote: > I am going to attempt to create a Firefly for the simulator. To let me fly > next to the woodstove as it is -4 degrees here in Greenville, Maine this > morning. > To start the project I need front, top and side views with dimensions. If > anybody has these and could scan them and email them to me I would greatly > appreciate the help. > Also it would be more accurate if I could pick an airfoil that approximates > the actual one used. Any suggestions? > Bob > > * > > * > >




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