Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:13 AM - 912 (Ted Cowan)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (Thom Riddle)
3. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings (Richard Girard)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: Cracked tail post fix (zeprep251@aol.com)
5. 06:00 AM - Re: Cracked tail post fix (Robert Laird)
6. 06:09 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (russ kinne)
7. 06:36 AM - Re: 912 (lucien)
8. 06:42 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (Richard Girard)
9. 06:55 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (John Hauck)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (John Hauck)
11. 07:45 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (Richard Girard)
12. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings (b young)
13. 07:46 AM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (Richard Girard)
14. 08:26 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Jason Omelchuck)
15. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
16. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard Girard)
17. 09:36 AM - Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (albertakolbmk3)
18. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (John Hauck)
19. 10:41 AM - Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (John Hauck)
20. 10:49 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (lucien)
21. 11:08 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Thom Riddle)
22. 11:13 AM - Re: Cracked tail post fix (Jimmy Young)
23. 11:15 AM - Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (albertakolbmk3)
24. 11:17 AM - Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (albertakolbmk3)
25. 11:18 AM - Re: 912 (Thom Riddle)
26. 11:19 AM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (lucien)
27. 11:19 AM - Re: 912 (Thom Riddle)
28. 11:27 AM - Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (Thom Riddle)
29. 11:38 AM - Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (albertakolbmk3)
30. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (John Hauck)
31. 12:19 PM - Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (albertakolbmk3)
32. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (John Hauck)
33. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (John Hauck)
34. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard Girard)
35. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Cracked tail post fix (frank.goodnight)
36. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (Richard Girard)
37. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) (Richard Girard)
38. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Robert Laird)
39. 12:49 PM - Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem (Richard Pike)
40. 01:12 PM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (lucien)
41. 01:23 PM - Re: Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem (Richard Girard)
42. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (John Hauck)
43. 01:30 PM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (lucien)
44. 01:34 PM - Re: Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem (Richard Pike)
45. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
46. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: 912 (zeprep251@aol.com)
47. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: 912 (John Hauck)
48. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (John Hauck)
49. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (John Hauck)
50. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
51. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (John Hauck)
52. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: 912 (zeprep251@aol.com)
53. 02:59 PM - Re: Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem (Herb)
54. 03:33 PM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (PATRICK LADD)
55. 03:55 PM - Re: 912 (zeprep251@aol.com)
56. 05:08 PM - Re: 912 (robert bean)
57. 06:29 PM - Re: Loctite 5910 Black (Roger Lee)
58. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Loctite 5910 Black (John Hauck)
59. 11:03 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
60. 11:04 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Been lurking and want to say a couple of things. I had a 582 on my
slingshot and it was a real performer, to me anyway. It was LOUD. It had a
fuel consumption of around five and a half to six gals an hour + if I was
loaded and heading to Florida. I found some $$ and got hooked up with a 912
UL from Kolb. Got the works. I gotta tell you all, with this set-up, I
dont think you could beat it. I think it is the most perfect combination
you could have. I use 3 gals per hour at about 85 mph cruise. I can load
it to the hilt and still get close to the same. It has climb ability second
to none. I love my little slingshot. Only one problem, rum rum. Cant get
rid of it. So far I have done every modification known to man. Still
there. One thing left is the gear box. Not on the replacement part list
but I have the belief it has tight gears in it or is elliptical or
something. You can pull the prop around with the plugs out and still feel
it is tight in spots. Now the problem. How will I ever get the people to
warrantee the fix after almost 300 hours on it. The problem was original
but time has gone on. I am so embarrassed with this sound. I cannot get it
out even with the new helmet electronics. At this point I am willing to pay
for the gear inspection and replacement. Should not have to. Going to call
Ronny today and see what I can do. I dont want to pull the box myself.
Would rather fly to him or to Lockwood and stay until it is fixed. Anybody
have any other ideas? Not the mounts, exhaust pipes, carbs, (maybe timing),
engine not really rolling, just sounds like it is, compression equal on all
four, plugs replaced (twice). Even ready to put the new muffler on the
pipes except dont like the idea of hanging another five or eight pounds on
the backside of my CG. Someone want to come and fix this for me? I will
pay you. Anyway, I still have the most perfect flying machine. One thing
for sure, you can always tell it is me coming. Ted Cowan, Alabama,
Slingshot 912UL
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
What's wrong with Loctite 574 (orange)? I've used that on every 912 gearbox I've
inspected, per instructions current at the time. Never had a leak or any other
problem with it.
Maybe mighty Rotax is colluding with Loctite to find more ways to make Rotax maintenance
more expensive for owners and profitable for them.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing
armies.
- Thomas Jefferson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284320#284320
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings |
Bob, Of course it will depend upon how much realism you want to get out of
the simulation, but if you want to get the full effect of the Kolb Quit
you'll want to modify the Cub airfoil for the ridiculously tiny leading edge
radius of the Kolb.
I found the NACA 66 in Mike Rice's "Handbook of Airfoil Selections for Light
Aircraft", page 39.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ellery, thanks for the lead. Jack's site had some useful info like the
> wing and h-stab incidence angles.
>
> Rick, I wasn't able to find that airfoil in the PlaneMaker programs
> options. I ended up using a "Cub Wing" airfoil.
>
> I tried working from some drawings in the March '98 issue of Sport Piolet &
> Ultralights magazine. They were not accurate enough. Still looking for
> technical info and 3 view drawings.
>
> bk
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked tail post fix |
Jimmy,
I went through the same sequence of repairs as you.First noticed the crack
ed tube in the lower stabilizer,went with a heavier tube,then cracked the
short horizontal steel tube going from the tail post to the lower part of
the ring.removed the tail assy., welded it with a gusset.If you grab the
tail spring and move it left and right you can see the twisting load on
the ring/tail post assy. The straps from the lower stab.tube to the ring
are are always in tension and eliminate that moment.I can't remember any
other structural failure on the Kolbs,but John's fix ends this problem.
I encourage you to reconsider.
G.Aman FS2,MK3C
-----Original Message-----
From: Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2010 7:29 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Cracked tail post fix
List,
My tail post cracked, same place as other Kolbs have as has been previousl
y
noted on the list. The junction at the vertical tail post and horizontal
tube
that welds to the bottom of the tail ring is where it let go. We sleeved
the
inside with a 4130 tube and welded it up. I also replaced the very weak di
agonal
"lawn-chair" grade aluminum tubing that forms the bottom of the lower vert
ical
stabilizer with a piece of 3/4 X .049 AL tubing, as the original piece was
cracked in two as well. That original piece is some really thin stuff, bu
t
maybe all that's required of it is to hold the fabric. I just couldn't go
back
with something that thin.
I thought about the fabric work left to do for a bit, then decided I'd try
aluminum instead. Worked out pretty good, easier than the fabric work woul
d have
been, plus I can take it off via screws for future inspection. I've includ
ed a
photo of what I did.
I will take a look at adding the struts as some have done, but to me that
mod
looks like the angle is so steep you're not gaining much strength. I think
a
full-swivel tailwheel is the better option to relieve the lateral forces
placed
on this part of the plane.
Looking forward to warmer, drier weather something fierce! I've done very
little
flying since November.
Jimmy Young
Houston TX
FS II, 405 ttl hrs, 295 my hrs, 70 hrs on HKS
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284250#284250
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0575_139.jpg
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked tail post fix |
Ah, so, the EAA sheet metal workshop paid off, eh? :-) Looks good!
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I thought about the fabric work left to do for a bit, then decided I'd try
> aluminum instead. Worked out pretty good, easier than the fabric work would
> have been, plus I can take it off via screws for future inspection. I've
> included a photo of what I did.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
John
I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in
CONUS?
do not archive
On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Hi Gang:
>
> Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time
> we pulled it. This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended
> gearbox flange sealant.
>
> I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of
> 5910. It is popular in Europe, but not in the US. I
>
> Can anyone help me out? I would like to reseal my gearbox before I
> get serious about flying this year.
>
> Thanks,
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
Message 7
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tc1917(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> Been lurking and want to say a couple of things. I had a 582 on my
> slingshot and it was a real performer, to me anyway. It was LOUD. It had a
> fuel consumption of around five and a half to six gals an hour + if I was
> loaded and heading to Florida. I found some $$ and got hooked up with a 912
> UL from Kolb. Got the works. I gotta tell you all, with this set-up, I
> dont think you could beat it. I think it is the most perfect combination
> you could have. I use 3 gals per hour at about 85 mph cruise. I can load
> it to the hilt and still get close to the same. It has climb ability second
> to none. I love my little slingshot. Only one problem, rum rum. Cant get
> rid of it. So far I have done every modification known to man. Still
> there. One thing left is the gear box. Not on the replacement part list
> but I have the belief it has tight gears in it or is elliptical or
> something. You can pull the prop around with the plugs out and still feel
> it is tight in spots. Now the problem. How will I ever get the people to
> warrantee the fix after almost 300 hours on it. The problem was original
> but time has gone on. I am so embarrassed with this sound. I cannot get it
> out even with the new helmet electronics. At this point I am willing to pay
> for the gear inspection and replacement. Should not have to. Going to call
> Ronny today and see what I can do. I dont want to pull the box myself.
> Would rather fly to him or to Lockwood and stay until it is fixed. Anybody
> have any other ideas? Not the mounts, exhaust pipes, carbs, (maybe timing),
> engine not really rolling, just sounds like it is, compression equal on all
> four, plugs replaced (twice). Even ready to put the new muffler on the
> pipes except dont like the idea of hanging another five or eight pounds on
> the backside of my CG. Someone want to come and fix this for me? I will
> pay you. Anyway, I still have the most perfect flying machine. One thing
> for sure, you can always tell it is me coming. Ted Cowan, Alabama,
> Slingshot 912UL
Seems like we had a thread on this a while back which was actually my fault (was
chasing a harmonic problem on my plane).
The tightness you feel when you pull the prop through with no plugs in it is the
normal drag of the pistons in the engine itself. Also the oil pump adds drag
once the oil pressure builds up. You'll feel all this is regular pulses in drag
as you rotate it.
If it really is tight in some regular spot in the prop rotation, you got a major
problem, probably would have already put you down in a field somewhere. Sounds
unlikely unless you delivered a heavy prop strike or something along those
lines.
As for the rum-rum, it's not a problem unless it's bad enough to buzz things in
the plane. If panels, windscreens, RAIM mounts for GPS's, etc., get blurry around
their edges and you have a really hard buzz in the seat from it, yeah it's
something you'll want to address ASAP. But if things are staying in focus and
not moving and all you have is the noise, probably not a problem.
On my plane, the problem was only fixed by going to a different type of prop with
a different resonance on the blades. Completely cured the vibration. There's
an audible harmonic but things sit still in the plane with no blurs or wobbles.
Problem solved.
IIRC, the 80 horse has a 2.27:1 ratio unless you order it with the 2.43. Every
one of these I've heard with a 3 blade prop has an almost perfect 4th harmonic.
That could be what you're hearing.
Once you get into that engine things get bank-robbery expensive, so I wouldn't
do that unless you really have a problem with the motor and have completely exhausted
everything else....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284341#284341
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
You can get Loctite 5910 from McMaster Carr, Part Number:
1832A11<http://www.mcmaster.com/itm/find.ASP?tab=find&context=psrchDtlLink&fasttrack=False&searchstring=1832A11>
$53.62 each. Yikes!
Rick Girard
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:07 AM, russ kinne <russkinne@mac.com> wrote:
>
> John
> I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in CONUS?
> do not archive
>
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Gang:
>>
>> Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we
>> pulled it. This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange
>> sealant.
>>
>> I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.
>> It is popular in Europe, but not in the US. I
>>
>> Can anyone help me out? I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get
>> serious about flying this year.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> john hauck
>> mkIII
>> Titus, Alabama
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
>
> I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in
> CONUS?
It would still cost me more than I want to pay, and a lot would go to waste
because of the large size of the container.
I will reseal with either Yamabond or Hondabond, I have both in the shop, or
maybe a new product I recently obtained.
This new product is called, "Permatex The Right Stuff" Item #85224. It is
an elasometric rubber gasket maker. I don't know how well it would work as
a flange sealant. The only way to find out would be to take the time to
pull the gear box and try it. I can go to their web site and pull up more
detailed info on its applications.
I've got a feeling that the motorcycle sealant will do the job, based on
success with it over the years. Sealing motorcycle engine cases is very
similar to sealing the Rotax gear box flanges to the engine cases. MEK cuts
it, if I remember correctly. So, next time around after using, MEK will
make the job of clean up and prep a lot easier.
Gear box pressure is the same as crank case pressure, 3 to 5 psi, if I
remember correctly. That's not much.
Removal and replacement is not difficult. I remove the prop and all the
bolts in the gear box. I do not have a Rotax gear box puller, but a block
of soft 2X4 and a large ball peen hammer break the seal between the gear box
and engine case fairly easy. I have forgotten the bolt torque, there are
two different size bolts, but a quick call to Ronnie Smith will provide
those, or I can break down and look it up in the manuals.
That job will have to wait until the weather gets a little warmer though. A
good time to do it is in conjunction with an oil change. I just changed the
oil an hour ago. How's that for putting off the repair?
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
That with or without shipping? ;-)
For one R&R reseal......I'd probably use 25 cents worth.
Undecided about the Permatex "Right Stuff" until I do some research.
Confident the Yamabond or Hondabond will do the trick.
john hauck
mkIII
titus, alabama
You can get Loctite 5910 from McMaster Carr, Part Number: 1832A11
$53.62 each. Yikes!
Rick Girard
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
They've never offered me free shipping in the 20+ years I've been buying
from them, so I'm guessing that's without. As for the right stuff, without
going to the specs and just going by the applications listed it seems to
have the same uses as Ultra Black. For high temps good old Ultra Copper is
hard to beat.
Rick
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:07 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> That with or without shipping? ;-)
>
> For one R&R reseal......I'd probably use 25 cents worth.
>
> Undecided about the Permatex "Right Stuff" until I do some research.
>
> Confident the Yamabond or Hondabond will do the trick.
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> titus, alabama
>
>
> You can get Loctite 5910 from McMaster Carr, Part Number: 1832A11<http://www.mcmaster.com/itm/find.ASP?tab=find&context=psrchDtlLink&fasttrack=False&searchstring=1832A11>
> $53.62 each. Yikes!
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly for X-Plane, 3 view drawings |
>> Rick, I wasn't able to find that airfoil in the PlaneMaker programs
options. I ended up using a "Cub Wing" airfoil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Although the cub wing is considered a flat bottom airfoil=85 the
bottom
surface has a slight curve up ( an inch to 1 =BD inch) at the leading
edge for
about the first 10 inches plus or minus. My guess is that it would need
very slightly less incidence and lift, and would fly 5 miles/hour
faster.
It should have a bit less climb rate, but have a longer glide ratio.
Remember it is only a guess, that is one step above a wag (wild as
guess)
Boyd Young
Kolb mkIII
Utah
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
John, Yeah, pricey stuff for a one time application. I used Hylomar sealant
for my Harley. Loctite is made by a German company (Henkel) but their U.K.
division publishes PDF's of their products
http://www.henkel.fi/fis/content_data/96621_Silicone_Leaflet_1.0_1.0.pdf
<http://www.henkel.fi/fis/content_data/96621_Silicone_Leaflet_1.0_1.0.pdf>as
well as MSDS data. With the MSDS you could probably make a reasonable
deduction about what Honda or Yamaha sealant product would coincide. Notice
in the PDF above that Henkel shows that 5910 is available in smaller tubes
than the giant industrial size. The 80 mil is the size of the tubes sold in
auto parts stores in the $5 to $6 range. Permetex Blue is used for the same
applications and it's only $5.49 a tube at O'Reilly's.
As for torque apecs, the last section of the 912 IPC has the torque specs
for every screw uses in Rotax engines.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:55 AM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in CONUS?
>>
>
>
> It would still cost me more than I want to pay, and a lot would go to waste
> because of the large size of the container.
>
> I will reseal with either Yamabond or Hondabond, I have both in the shop,
> or maybe a new product I recently obtained.
>
> This new product is called, "Permatex The Right Stuff" Item #85224. It is
> an elasometric rubber gasket maker. I don't know how well it would work as
> a flange sealant. The only way to find out would be to take the time to
> pull the gear box and try it. I can go to their web site and pull up more
> detailed info on its applications.
>
> I've got a feeling that the motorcycle sealant will do the job, based on
> success with it over the years. Sealing motorcycle engine cases is very
> similar to sealing the Rotax gear box flanges to the engine cases. MEK cuts
> it, if I remember correctly. So, next time around after using, MEK will
> make the job of clean up and prep a lot easier.
>
> Gear box pressure is the same as crank case pressure, 3 to 5 psi, if I
> remember correctly. That's not much.
>
> Removal and replacement is not difficult. I remove the prop and all the
> bolts in the gear box. I do not have a Rotax gear box puller, but a block
> of soft 2X4 and a large ball peen hammer break the seal between the gear box
> and engine case fairly easy. I have forgotten the bolt torque, there are
> two different size bolts, but a quick call to Ronnie Smith will provide
> those, or I can break down and look it up in the manuals.
>
> That job will have to wait until the weather gets a little warmer though.
> A good time to do it is in conjunction with an oil change. I just changed
> the oil an hour ago. How's that for putting off the repair?
>
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
I have an RK 400 clutch in my MKIII and it works well. At minimum approach speeds,
I do not believe I loose very much glide at all.
My .02 worth
Jason
[quote="rickofudall"]Lucien, Before you get a Rice King clutch see if you can get
a flight in an airplane that has one in the gearbox. Pull power and see what
happens to the glide. I pulled mine out as soon as I got the parts to replace
it. Great if you're pushing a rice boat, horrible in an aircraft.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284374#284374
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
Jason
It seems like you posted photos or your engine a while back but could you
post them again. What Yamaha engine (motor cycle?) are you using? Are you
using a Rotax reduction drive? Did you make the redrive adapter? What was
involved? Your fuel burn seems high for your speeds? Is it a high HP engine?
What prop and reduction ratio are you running? What RPM do you turn at your
stated 70 MPH cruse? Water cooled?
Sorry for all the questions. Again I like alternative engines and this one
sounds promising.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 11:24 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
>
> I have an RK 400 clutch in my MKIII and it works well. At minimum
> approach speeds, I do not believe I loose very much glide at all.
>
> My .02 worth
> Jason
>
>
> [quote="rickofudall"]Lucien, Before you get a Rice King clutch see if you
> can get a flight in an airplane that has one in the gearbox. Pull power
> and see what happens to the glide. I pulled mine out as soon as I got the
> parts to replace it. Great if you're pushing a rice boat, horrible in an
> aircraft.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284374#284374
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
As best as I was able to measure the Rice King cut the glide of my Mk III to
a bit less than 2.5 to 1. This is with a Warp Drive 3 blade with untapered
blades. Even with the engine stopped and all other things the same, the
glide is a bit over 6 to 1. The only advantage I ever saw was the engine
didn't engage the clutch until 2500 RPM and it was real smooth then. Stock
at 2500 RPM there's no differrence. At lower RPM no comparison can be made
for obvious reasons.
The only real difference that matters to me is that I made the field when my
engine quit last August. I wouldn't have if I'd still had the Rice King.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Jason Omelchuck <jason@trek-tech.com>wrote:
>
> I have an RK 400 clutch in my MKIII and it works well. At minimum approach
> speeds, I do not believe I loose very much glide at all.
>
> My .02 worth
> Jason
>
>
> [quote="rickofudall"]Lucien, Before you get a Rice King clutch see if you
> can get a flight in an airplane that has one in the gearbox. Pull power and
> see what happens to the glide. I pulled mine out as soon as I got the parts
> to replace it. Great if you're pushing a rice boat, horrible in an aircraft.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284374#284374
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
Hi guys,
Found a 912S but had a prop strike when the owner flipped it. Would you consider
it? What to look for? Avoid it like the plague?
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284387#284387
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
Gang:
Rotax, back in my two stroke days, instructed us to keep the engine rpm
at or above 2000 rpm as soon as we cranked. This got us out of gear box
chatter and idled smoothly. Did not matter which engine it was or gear
box. I have watched people crank two strokes, let them idle at low rpm,
and beat themselves silly until the pilot increased rpm.
If someone is having a serious problem with gearbox chatter in a C
gearbox, they might want to insure the rubber hardy disk is serviceable
and the correct density. When I got my new 582 in 1991, it was shipped
with a hard disk that was too soft. Try as I would, during its initial
startup I could not get the engine above idle. I was fit to be tied.
Got Eric Tucker on the phone. He knew what it was and send me the
correct hardy disk overnight. That fixed the problem.
Might be a matter of pilot technique to be aware of and understand what
the gearbox and engine are trying to tell you, especially when it is
trying to turn a large diameter, heavy prop.
I'll trade additional glide for a little momentary engine idle roughness
any day.
You all correct me if I am wrong, the only advantage of this piece of
equipment is smooth out idle by preventing gear box chatter (back
lash)(torsional vibration).
Too bad the clutch does not have a prop brake so the pilot could control
the amount of drag the windmilling prop produces. Would make a super
air brake. Prop makes a heck of an air brake when it is autorotating.
Remember, this is what makes a gyrocopter fly.
I would not fly with one.
john hauck
mkIII
titus, alabama
The only advantage I ever saw was the engine didn't engage the clutch
until 2500 RPM and it was real smooth then. Stock at 2500 RPM there's no
differrence.
Rick Girard
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
> Found a 912S but had a prop strike when the owner flipped it. Would you
consider it? What to look for? Avoid it like the plague?
>
> --------
> Tony B.
First thing I would check is installation of a slip clutch. Early 912ULS
engines did not have a slip clutch. It later became an option, along with a
high torque starter. New 912ULS engines come equipped with the high torque
starter and slip clutch.
It it has a slip clutch I'd be interested.
Any idea what rpm was when he hit?
john hauck
mkIII
titus, alabama
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
rickofudall wrote:
> As best as I was able to measure the Rice King cut the glide of my Mk III to
a bit less than 2.5 to 1. This is with a Warp Drive 3 blade with untapered blades.
Even with the engine stopped and all other things the same, the glide is
a bit over 6 to 1. The only advantage I ever saw was the engine didn't engage
the clutch until 2500 RPM and it was real smooth then. Stock at 2500 RPM there's
no differrence. At lower RPM no comparison can be made for obvious reasons.
The only real difference that matters to me is that I made the field when my
engine quit last August. I wouldn't have if I'd still had the Rice King.
>
> Rick Girard
>
I vaguely remember years ago my CFI telling me that, if you actually did the math
on it, a windmilling prop comes out having approximately the same drag as a
metal disk of the same diameter.....
My FSII didn't have a 2.5:1 glide ratio but it was definitely steeper than another
FS II that lived at a nearby airport that didn't use a clutch. Turned out
to be very useful in my FSII, a poor-man's speed brake/flaps for when I was too
high or otherwise needed to come down Right Now. Just pull back to idle and
it was like a max-effort slip ;)
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284406#284406
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
....You all correct me if I am wrong, the only advantage of this piece of equipment
is smooth out idle by preventing gear box chatter (back lash)(torsional vibration).....
I've never had a clutched prop but can think of another advantage of one. At idle
speed the prop is not turning so it can't hurt you or others nearby or stray
dogs who should not be allowed loose on an airport, or somnambulists who are
inclined to walk into killer props. Not saying this advantage is worth the $cost
or disadvantages. That judgement is up to the owner, of course.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
We refuse to believe this country, so powerful to defend its citizens abroad, is
unable to protect its citizens at home.
- Ida B. Wells
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284409#284409
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked tail post fix |
> The fix really strengthen my tail
> post.
> Rethink using the strut braces. I haven't had a problem with my tailpost
> since we made that mod.
> I can't remember any other structural failure on the Kolbs,but John's fix ends
this problem.
I have seen the light! I'm installing tailpost bracing asap. Thanks for the comments.
I'll post a photo of the completed work.
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284410#284410
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
I can find out. He's asking $10,500 that includes everything firewall forward except
engine mount. Has 670 hrs. on it.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284411#284411
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
The plane was a 2007 so I'm guessing the engine is pretty recent also.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284412#284412
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Ted,
As a fellow Slingshot driver, I appreciate the fine qualities of our airplanes
and wish I could add something to help with your non-Caribbean Rum Rum, but can't.
I was wondering if you have posted photos of your slingshot somewhere on
the internet, or if not, could you post some on this list. I'd like to see yours
and would guess none of the other Kolbers would object to seeing it either.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
We refuse to believe this country, so powerful to defend its citizens abroad, is
unable to protect its citizens at home.
- Ida B. Wells
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284413#284413
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> ....You all correct me if I am wrong, the only advantage of this piece of equipment
is smooth out idle by preventing gear box chatter (back lash)(torsional
vibration).....
>
> I've never had a clutched prop but can think of another advantage of one. At
idle speed the prop is not turning so it can't hurt you or others nearby or stray
dogs who should not be allowed loose on an airport, or somnambulists who are
inclined to walk into killer props. Not saying this advantage is worth the
$cost or disadvantages. That judgement is up to the owner, of course.
The advantages of the clutch include:
- vastly easier starting. With the prop disengaged from the crank, you're pretty
much just pulling on a snomobile engine. No more need for that expensive, heavy
electric start. Pulling the rope is no longer like weight training for the
Mr. America contest.
- completely eliminates the descent with partial throttle opening difficulty with
the 2-strokes. Pull back to idle and you can dive to your heart's content without
endangering the engine.
- windmilling prop adds drag, loads of it. A big help for planes like the FS II
that don't have flaps and where slips aren't terribly effective. An extra tool
available for use for managing your approach.
- idling is much easier on the crankshaft without the prop hooked up to it. You
can set the idle to 1700 rpm (bottom out the slides in the carburettors) which
it'll do nicely with hammering of the box or crank.
- stopped prop on flightline is a real novelty.
Those are the main advantages. Again, a huge step up in terms of problems solved,
more than makes up for the small problems it introduces....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284414#284414
Message 27
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Ted,
As a fellow Slingshot driver, I appreciate the fine qualities of our airplanes
and wish I could add something to help with your non-Caribbean Rum Rum, but can't.
I was wondering if you have posted photos of your slingshot somewhere on
the internet, or if not, could you post some on this list. I'd like to see yours
and would guess none of the other Kolbers would object to seeing it either.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
We refuse to believe this country, so powerful to defend its citizens abroad, is
unable to protect its citizens at home.
- Ida B. Wells
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284415#284415
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
Another useful bit of information would be what kind of prop was installed when
it struck the ground and was the airplane moving forward at substantial speed
at impact or just rotational motion at time of impact. A wood prop absorbs a
lot of energy at impact, as do the lighter weight props like Power Fin. I would
also recommend a prop flange run out check first and if that is OK then a gearbox
removal and internal inspection before committing to purchase.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
We refuse to believe this country, so powerful to defend its citizens abroad, is
unable to protect its citizens at home.
- Ida B. Wells
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284419#284419
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
It had a wood prop. Just emailed him some other questions that john had mentioned
also...waiting to hear back.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284420#284420
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
A wood prop absorbs a lot of energy at impact, as do the lighter weight
props like Power Fin. I would also recommend a prop flange run out check
first and if that is OK then a gearbox removal and internal inspection
before committing to purchase.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
I didn't do a good job, as usual of explaining myself.
If it has a slip clutch, which it probably does since it is a 2007, the slip
clutch should absorb any rotational impact of the prop shaft, unlike a
direct drive engine with the prop on the crank shaft.
I'm going to try and take a second to proof read what I write, in the
future, so folks will understand what I am trying to say.
I'd also start out at 6,500.00 and go from there.
john hauck
mkIII
titus, alabama
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
He says he was coming in to land and was throttled back.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284429#284429
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
> He says he was coming in to land and was throttled back.
>
> --------
> Tony B.
Sounds like a good engine. If I needed it, I'd jump on it.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
> The advantages of the clutch include:
>
> - vastly easier starting. With the prop disengaged from the crank, you're
> pretty much just pulling on a snomobile engine. No more need for that
> expensive, heavy electric start. Pulling the rope is no longer like weight
> training for the Mr. America contest.
> - completely eliminates the descent with partial throttle opening
> difficulty with the 2-strokes. Pull back to idle and you can dive to your
> heart's content without endangering the engine.
> - windmilling prop adds drag, loads of it. A big help for planes like the
> FS II that don't have flaps and where slips aren't terribly effective. An
> extra tool available for use for managing your approach.
> - idling is much easier on the crankshaft without the prop hooked up to
> it. You can set the idle to 1700 rpm (bottom out the slides in the
> carburettors) which it'll do nicely with hammering of the box or crank.
> - stopped prop on flightline is a real novelty.
>
> Those are the main advantages. Again, a huge step up in terms of problems
> solved, more than makes up for the small problems it introduces....
>
> LS
I wouldn't make an engine out forced landing with a drag chute that I could
not release.
Scrubbing landing speed has never been a problem in a Kolb. Increasing
glide always has been.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
Yep, lots of advantages, right up to the point you don't make that big open
landing field and roll your plane in a ball. :-{
Rick Girard
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 PM, lucien <lstavenhagen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thom Riddle wrote:
> > ....You all correct me if I am wrong, the only advantage of this piece of
> equipment is smooth out idle by preventing gear box chatter (back
> lash)(torsional vibration).....
> >
> > I've never had a clutched prop but can think of another advantage of one.
> At idle speed the prop is not turning so it can't hurt you or others nearby
> or stray dogs who should not be allowed loose on an airport, or
> somnambulists who are inclined to walk into killer props. Not saying this
> advantage is worth the $cost or disadvantages. That judgement is up to the
> owner, of course.
>
>
> The advantages of the clutch include:
>
> - vastly easier starting. With the prop disengaged from the crank, you're
> pretty much just pulling on a snomobile engine. No more need for that
> expensive, heavy electric start. Pulling the rope is no longer like weight
> training for the Mr. America contest.
> - completely eliminates the descent with partial throttle opening
> difficulty with the 2-strokes. Pull back to idle and you can dive to your
> heart's content without endangering the engine.
> - windmilling prop adds drag, loads of it. A big help for planes like the
> FS II that don't have flaps and where slips aren't terribly effective. An
> extra tool available for use for managing your approach.
> - idling is much easier on the crankshaft without the prop hooked up to it.
> You can set the idle to 1700 rpm (bottom out the slides in the carburettors)
> which it'll do nicely with hammering of the box or crank.
> - stopped prop on flightline is a real novelty.
>
> Those are the main advantages. Again, a huge step up in terms of problems
> solved, more than makes up for the small problems it introduces....
>
> LS
>
> --------
> LS
> Titan II SS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284414#284414
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Cracked tail post fix |
Hi Jim,
Fwiw [ for what it's worth] I think you made a good decision,
Frank Goodnight
Firestar 2
On Feb 1, 2010, at 1:10 PM, Jimmy Young wrote:
>
>
>> The fix really strengthen my tail
>> post.
>
>
>> Rethink using the strut braces. I haven't had a problem with my
>> tailpost
>> since we made that mod.
>
>
>> I can't remember any other structural failure on the Kolbs,but
>> John's fix ends this problem.
>
>
> I have seen the light! I'm installing tailpost bracing asap. Thanks
> for the comments. I'll post a photo of the completed work.
>
> --------
> Jimmy Young
> Missouri City, TX
> Kolb FS II/HKS 700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284410#284410
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
Tony, All Rotax aircraft engines have pressed together cranks. Have the
owner pull the gearbox and get the runout at the crank nose checked with a
VERY sensitive ( .0001" at least, .00005" is better ). Check at the end of
the taper and as close to the seal as you can get. Even then, start the
bidding at the cost of installing a new crank assembly below the owner's
asking price.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> A wood prop absorbs a lot of energy at impact, as do the lighter weight
> props like Power Fin. I would also recommend a prop flange run out check
> first and if that is OK then a gearbox removal and internal inspection
> before committing to purchase.
>
>>
>> --------
>> Thom Riddle
>>
>
>
> I didn't do a good job, as usual of explaining myself.
>
> If it has a slip clutch, which it probably does since it is a 2007, the
> slip clutch should absorb any rotational impact of the prop shaft, unlike a
> direct drive engine with the prop on the crank shaft.
>
> I'm going to try and take a second to proof read what I write, in the
> future, so folks will understand what I am trying to say.
>
> I'd also start out at 6,500.00 and go from there.
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> titus, alabama
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912S with Prop Strike (stay away???) |
What's the last thing a pilot who has landed with the landing gear up does?
He puts the gear switch in the down position. Unless you can find witnesses
to verify assume he did everything possible wrong and bid accordingly.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:29 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> > He says he was coming in to land and was throttled back.
>
>>
>> --------
>> Tony B.
>>
>
>
> Sounds like a good engine. If I needed it, I'd jump on it.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
They are also desirable for float-/sea-planes.... when maneuvering a
docking, the pilot will have more control over when there is and isn't
thrust coming from the prop.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ....You all correct me if I am wrong, the only advantage of this piece of
> equipment is smooth out idle by preventing gear box chatter (back
> lash)(torsional vibration).....
>
> I've never had a clutched prop but can think of another advantage of one.
> At idle speed the prop is not turning so it can't hurt you or others nearby
> or stray dogs who should not be allowed loose on an airport, or
> somnambulists who are inclined to walk into killer props. Not saying this
> advantage is worth the $cost or disadvantages. That judgement is up to the
> owner, of course.
>
> --------
> Thom Riddle
> Buffalo, NY
> Kolb Slingshot SS-021
> Jabiru 2200A #1574
> Tennessee Prop 64x31
>
>
> We refuse to believe this country, so powerful to defend its citizens
> abroad, is unable to protect its citizens at home.
> - Ida B. Wells
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284409#284409
>
>
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| Subject: | Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem |
If any of youse guys have a friend with a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, could you have them
email me? Or get me a phone number so I can call them? Trying to do a weight
and balance on a friends Hawk, and we need to know what the recommended numbers
are.
Thanks
Richard Pike
richard@bcchapel.org
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284435#284435
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
John Hauck wrote:
> >
> I wouldn't make an engine out forced landing with a drag chute that I could
> not release.
>
> Scrubbing landing speed has never been a problem in a Kolb. Increasing
> glide always has been.
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
True, but my point being that you can practice exactly the engine-off glide you
do get without actually having to shut the engine down.
This is a very large safety advantage when practicing emergency procedures. If
you really really really _do_ screw up your approach during practice, you're not
screwed and calling Travis the next day for parts etc if you can't restart
in time.
Without it, the only way to truly simulate an engine-off situation is to actually
shut er down.
It was probably that alone that made the clutch's 400+ price tag worth it with
my FS II. In my experience, being as familiar as possible with the glide ratio
of the plane engine-off edges out a moderately increased glide ratio - I could
(and did, over and over) practice completely realistic engine-off glides without
having to actually shut down. Made the practice safer, funner and I did it
more often.....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284441#284441
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| Subject: | Re: Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem |
If you can't find specific numbers for the airplane, using 18 to 35% of wing
chord as fore and aft limits is probably a safe place to start.
You can also get info from the FAA " Aircraft Weight and Balance Handbook"
FAA H8083-1A at:
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/FAA-H-8083-1A.pdf
Rick Girard
<http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/FAA-H-8083-1A.pdf>
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> wrote:
>
> If any of youse guys have a friend with a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, could you have
> them email me? Or get me a phone number so I can call them? Trying to do a
> weight and balance on a friends Hawk, and we need to know what the
> recommended numbers are.
>
> Thanks
> Richard Pike
> richard@bcchapel.org
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284435#284435
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
> True, but my point being that you can practice exactly the engine-off
glide you do get without actually having to shut the engine down.
>
> Without it, the only way to truly simulate an engine-off situation is to
actually shut er down.
>
> LS
Does the engine go to idle, in flight, when the throttle is totally retarded
when equipped with a clutch?
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Does the engine go to idle, in flight, when the throttle is totally retarded
> when equipped with a clutch?
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Yes, immediately. Unhooks the prop right away at any power setting or speed (it's
a centrifugal clutch).
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284449#284449
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| Subject: | Re: Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem |
I've got what I need, disregard this thread, thanks
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284451#284451
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
John/All
I had the drive belts fall off my redrive a few years ago in flight. A
series one redrive broke allowing the prop to free wheel, a bit like a
clutch disengaging. I had just dropped down to 800 AGL to get under
controlled airspace. I was a bit busy but I didn't really notice any extra
drag.
I had a nice bean field below me and had to use full flaps for a bit to get
to the landing point I wanted. At touch down I had retracted the flaps
completely and it felt like my normal one notch flap and partial power
landing. The only thing I can remember that was different was that with no
flaps I was able to land tail first. The tail snagged the beans like a
arresting hook. I had no damage other than a over revved the engine. I
really didn't notice any drag chute.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
>
>
> > The advantages of the clutch include:
>>
>> - vastly easier starting. With the prop disengaged from the crank, you're
>> pretty much just pulling on a snomobile engine. No more need for that
>> expensive, heavy electric start. Pulling the rope is no longer like
>> weight training for the Mr. America contest.
>> - completely eliminates the descent with partial throttle opening
>> difficulty with the 2-strokes. Pull back to idle and you can dive to your
>> heart's content without endangering the engine.
>> - windmilling prop adds drag, loads of it. A big help for planes like the
>> FS II that don't have flaps and where slips aren't terribly effective. An
>> extra tool available for use for managing your approach.
>> - idling is much easier on the crankshaft without the prop hooked up to
>> it. You can set the idle to 1700 rpm (bottom out the slides in the
>> carburettors) which it'll do nicely with hammering of the box or crank.
>> - stopped prop on flightline is a real novelty.
>>
>> Those are the main advantages. Again, a huge step up in terms of problems
>> solved, more than makes up for the small problems it introduces....
>>
>> LS
>
>
> I wouldn't make an engine out forced landing with a drag chute that I
> could not release.
>
> Scrubbing landing speed has never been a problem in a Kolb. Increasing
> glide always has been.
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
Message 46
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Ted,
Four of us went together on the purchase of a dynamic prop balancer.The fi
rst unit we experimented on was Mike Bakers 912uls Savannah.I thought it
was a smooth running unit until we balanced the IVO.What a difference .
G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A Sensenich (balanced)
-----Original Message-----
From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 1, 2010 2:16 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 912
Ted,
As a fellow Slingshot driver, I appreciate the fine qualities of our airpl
anes
and wish I could add something to help with your non-Caribbean Rum Rum, bu
t
can't. I was wondering if you have posted photos of your slingshot somewh
ere on
the internet, or if not, could you post some on this list. I'd like to see
yours
and would guess none of the other Kolbers would object to seeing it either
.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x31
We refuse to believe this country, so powerful to defend its citizens abro
ad, is
unable to protect its citizens at home.
- Ida B. Wells
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284413#284413
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 47
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Have you balanced a Warp Drive with HP hub yet?
Would be interested in your results, if you do.
Thanks,
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Four of us went together on the purchase of a dynamic prop
balancer.The first unit we experimented on was Mike Bakers 912uls
Savannah.I thought it was a smooth running unit until we balanced the
IVO.What a difference .
G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A Sensenich (balanced)
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
> I really didn't notice any drag chute.
>
> Rick Neilsen
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
> I really didn't notice any drag chute.
>
> Rick Neilsen
I guess not. You probably had your hands full and did not notice.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
John
You shot a blank.
Do not archive
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines
>
>
>
>> I really didn't notice any drag chute.
>>
>> Rick Neilsen
>
>
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines |
> You shot a blank.
>
> Rick Neilsen
But I reloaded and got off another round. ;-)
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 52
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John,
Left for Fla.soon after our purchase.I'll ask
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2010 5:31 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 912
Have you balanced a Warp Drive with HP hub yet?
Would be interested in your results, if you do.
Thanks,
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Four of us went together on the purchase of a dynamic prop balancer.The
first unit we experimented on was Mike Bakers 912uls Savannah.I thought
it was a smooth running unit until we balanced the IVO.What a differenc
e .
G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A Sensenich (balanced)
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
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| Subject: | Re: Need some Kolb help on a non-Kolb problem |
Richard..
I understand that company is now in Mississippi or Louisiana? Herb
At 02:47 PM 2/1/2010, you wrote:
>
>If any of youse guys have a friend with a 2 seat Hawk Arrow, could
>you have them email me? Or get me a phone number so I can call them?
>Trying to do a weight and balance on a friends Hawk, and we need to
>know what the recommended numbers are.
>
>Thanks
>Richard Pike
>richard@bcchapel.org
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284435#284435
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>02/01/10 07:35:00
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
Hi Russ,
-
Not into the various grades of Loctite and a long way from home at the mome
nt.
-
I am sure that a post to the British Microlihjt Association website with an
ask for help someone would give you a steer.
-
Made it to the Bay of Islands 2 days ago after good time in Cambodia and La
os.Pretty much bushed at the moment as I have had to get the cushions for t
he sunbeds
and lay them out on the deck which surrounds the bungalow. Sea is about 20f
t5. away. Nice gentle waves. Weather warm wind 5knots. .I think I will get
a beer.
-
Pat-
-
-- On Mon, 1/2/10, russ kinne <russkinne@mac.com> wrote:
From: russ kinne <russkinne@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Loctite 5910 Black
John
I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in CONUS?
do not archive
On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
> Hi Gang:
>
> Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we pu
lled it.- This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange
sealant.
>
> I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.
- It is popular in Europe, but not in the US.- I
>
> Can anyone help me out?- I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get
serious about flying this year.
>
> Thanks,
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 55
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Ted,
If you have not already done the dynamic balance thing,consider it.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Cowan <tc1917@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, Feb 1, 2010 8:06 am
Subject: Kolb-List: 912
Been lurking and want to say a couple of things. I had a 582 on my slings
hot and it was a real performer, to me anyway. It was LOUD. It had a fue
l consumption of around five and a half to six gals an hour + if I was loa
ded and heading to Florida. I found some $$ and got hooked up with a 912
UL from Kolb. Got the works. I gotta tell you all, with this set-up, I
dont think you could beat it. I think it is the most perfect combination
you could have. I use 3 gals per hour at about 85 mph cruise. I can loa
d it to the hilt and still get close to the same. It has climb ability se
cond to none. I love my little slingshot. Only one problem, rum rum. Ca
nt get rid of it. So far I have done every modification known to man. St
ill there. One thing left is the gear box. Not on the replacement part
list but I have the belief it has tight gears in it or is elliptical or
something. You can pull the prop around with the plugs out and still fee
l it is tight in spots. Now the problem. How will I ever get the people
to warrantee the fix after almost 300 hours on it. The problem was origi
nal but time has gone on. I am so embarrassed with this sound. I cannot
get it out even with the new helmet electronics. At this point I am will
ing to pay for the gear inspection and replacement. Should not have to.
Going to call Ronny today and see what I can do. I dont want to pull th
e box myself. Would rather fly to him or to Lockwood and stay until it is
fixed. Anybody have any other ideas? Not the mounts, exhaust pipes, car
bs, (maybe timing), engine not really rolling, just sounds like it is, com
pression equal on all four, plugs replaced (twice). Even ready to put the
new muffler on the pipes except dont like the idea of hanging another fiv
e or eight pounds on the backside of my CG. Someone want to come and fix
this for me? I will pay you. Anyway, I still have the most perfect flyi
ng machine. One thing for sure, you can always tell it is me coming. Ted
Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot 912UL
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
Message 56
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<Ted,
As a fellow Slingshot driver, I appreciate the fine qualities of our
airplanes and wish I could add something to help with your non-Caribbean
Rum Rum, but can't. I was wondering if you have posted photos of your
slingshot somewhere on the internet, or if not, could you post some on
this list. I'd like to see yours and would guess none of the other
Kolbers would object to seeing it either.
--------
Thom Riddle>
I've got the "caribbean" rum rum
Some kind of Bean anyway.
do not archive
caribbean
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
Hi John H,
Permatex "The Right Stuff" is just like 5910 and you can't tell the difference.
It works very well. You can pick it up at any automotive store. It works well
for the gearbox. Loctite 574, 5910 and "The right stuff" works for pesky oozing
valve covers. First pick for oozing covers is 574. Have talked with Eric Tucker
and 574 or 5910 is ok for valve covers that have a a leak problem.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284522#284522
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| Subject: | Re: Loctite 5910 Black |
> Permatex "The Right Stuff" is just like 5910 and you can't tell the
difference. It works very well. You can pick it up at any automotive store.
It works well for the gearbox. Loctite 574, 5910 and "The right stuff" works
for pesky oozing valve covers. First pick for oozing covers is 574. Have
talked with Eric Tucker and 574 or 5910 is ok for valve covers that have a a
leak problem.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
I bought a can recently to make valve cover gaskets for my antique tractors.
Gaskets, for them, are hard to find, and when you do find them they are
expensive. Everything I have read about The Right Stuff indicates it does a
real good job, especially replacing valve cover gaskets.
The Right Stuff looks like it will be easier to clean and prep the gear box
flanges after I use it the first time on the 912ULS gear box, than either
Yamabond or Hondabond.
I'm sure Yamabond and Hondabond would do the job, but probably more work to
clean and prep.
The 5910 held for a hundred hours or so, but it is oozing again. There may
have been some oil residue on the flanges when it was reinstalled. I like
to let the engine sit with the gear box off at least overnight to let as
much oil drain out of the crankcase and the crankshaft as I can. We did a
quick turn around to replace last time.
Soon as it warms up, I'll "get'er done" and get ready to do some serious
flying. Planning on wandering around Florida in the mkIII sometimes after
the middle of February, if the weather gets right. Probably go down one
side and back up the other, after visiting Key West once again.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 59
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| Subject: | Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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*****************************
Send an email message to:
kolb-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "kolb-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Kolb-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Kolb-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kolb-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kolb-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Kolb-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kolb-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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