---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/09/10: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - buck-tooth idiots (Jack B. Hart) 2. 05:48 AM - Re: buck-tooth idiots (lucien) 3. 06:02 AM - Re: Flight report (lucien) 4. 06:03 AM - Re: buck-tooth idiots (Robert Laird) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: buck-tooth idiots (John Hauck) 6. 06:15 AM - Re: buck-tooth idiots (Dave Carr) 7. 06:33 AM - Re: buck-tooth idiots (lucien) 8. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: Flight report (John Hauck) 9. 07:18 AM - Re: buck-tooth idiots (russ kinne) 10. 07:40 AM - Re: Flight report (lucien) 11. 07:57 AM - Learning to fly a Kolb (Mike Welch) 12. 08:25 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Herb) 13. 08:30 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (robert bean) 14. 08:52 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 15. 09:43 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Mike Welch) 16. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: buck-tooth idiots (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 17. 10:20 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Dana Hague) 18. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: buck-tooth idiots (Dana Hague) 19. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: buck-tooth idiots (Herb) 20. 11:20 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Jason Omelchuck) 21. 12:05 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Ralph B) 22. 12:17 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (lucien) 23. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Steve Simmons) 24. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Flight report (zeprep251@aol.com) 25. 02:44 PM - Re: Monument valley flyin -2010 (miyer2u) 26. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Monument valley flyin -2010 (John Hauck) 27. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (John Hauck) 28. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (John Hauck) 29. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: Flight report (John Hauck) 30. 04:54 PM - country folk & gettin shot at !! (john taylor) 31. 05:25 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (ces308) 32. 05:28 PM - Re: country folk & gettin shot at !! (Dana Hague) 33. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (John Hauck) 34. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Dana Hague) 35. 07:54 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Mike Welch) 36. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (Steve Simmons) 37. 08:26 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (ces308) 38. 08:32 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (ces308) 39. 10:30 PM - Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:24 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Kolb-List: buck-tooth idiots Lucien, I grew up on a farm in north central Iowa. If anything flew over and harassed the livestock we would take a shot at the varmit with a 22 rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun. If someone flew over low enough to see the shape of our teeth, there would be a strong desire to put a hole or two in the wing. Stupidity should be rewarded with the knowledge that there are certain behaviors that are not acceptable in rural areas. The question here is, who is the idot? It is good to know that Texas rural folk were successful in your re-education. Yes, you hit a nerve, and yes, now I feel better. do not archive Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN At 11:18 AM 2/8/10 -0800, you wrote: > >One of the reasons I'm an altitude man and don't like low-and-slow..... I worried the most about getting shot at back when I flew my powered parachute. We flew out in the boonies of TX most of the time and there was no shortage of buck-tooth idiots around out there who'd not think twice about shooting at anything that flew over them. > >Even here I try to fly quietly and as high up as I can reasonably go without wasting too much gas, etc....... > >LS > >-------- >LS >Titan II SS > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots From: "lucien" jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > Lucien, > > I grew up on a farm in north central Iowa. If anything flew over and > harassed the livestock we would take a shot at the varmit with a 22 > rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun. If someone flew over low enough to see the > shape of our teeth, there would be a strong desire to put a hole or two > in the wing. Stupidity should be rewarded with the knowledge that there > are certain behaviors that are not acceptable in rural areas. > > The question here is, who is the idot? It is good to know that Texas rural > folk were successful in your re-education. > > Yes, you hit a nerve, and yes, now I feel better. > > do not archive > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > If you were shooting at aircraft who were flying at legal altitudes, I'm with John H and you should still be in jail for your "varmint" hunting. If they were flying low enough to run your cows and etc., you should have done the _right_ thing and get the authorities on the phone. Handling stuff like that is what they're there for. Who's the idiot? Good question. You know the saying - guns don't kill people, people kill people. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285599#285599 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flight report From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > > > How do you accomplish that? > > John Williamson and I have low leveled from Sherman, TX, to Monument Valley, > UT, continued low level from there to the Rock House, 7 miles south of Burns > Junction, OR. If we were shot at during that flight, we never knew it. > > Last time either John W or I were shot at, that we know of, is Vietnam 1970 > for me, and I can't remember when John W came home the last time, 1972, > kinda rings a bell. Of course, we were both in a wonderful position to > defend ourselves in VN. > > Be careful how you talk about country folks. There are a bunch of us on the > Kolb List and we all fly Kolbs. ;-) > > john hauck > mkIII > hauck's holler > Titus, Alabama It's hard with my 912 and the big ol 70" prop, but I try to get as high as possible before getting near neighborhoods and then back off the power as soon as I can. Sort of an, er, noise abatement procedure for what it's worth. Don't worry, I'm a 30-year TX back country dude myself so I know whereof I speak. As for getting shot at, like I said when I flew PPC's with my good friends in TX was when we had the most trouble with people on the ground. Even when you're legal (as we always tried to be) PPC's move so slow that the noise just hangs there in the air. It also can take a while to get to altitude so you have a Rotax scream in one general place above your house for a long time. We had to be very careful not to run folks' cows and otherwise disturb people on the ground - altering our route a bunch if necessary to stay away from noise-sensitive areas and folks. Even with all that, we often still had messages on our cell phones at the end of the flight back at the field. We were even not well liked at local airports, even tho we had comms on board and obeyed traffic pattern rules. It still looked like we were "cuttin' up" even tho we were otherwise following the rules. That was probably my main turnoff of PPC flying, it really took a lot of the fun out of it. I eventually sold my PPC partly for that reason. Plus I'm basically a 3-axis guy anyway. And it's nice to not have the whole community pi$$ed off at me after a flight. Sure is more fun that way ;). LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285601#285601 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: buck-tooth idiots From: Robert Laird After some low-and-slow flying, a local fella returned to the field one day (some years back) during bow-hunting season, and, yep, he had an arrow stuck on the underside of the fuselage of his Hawk. Talk about an eye opener! On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > > Lucien, > > I grew up on a farm in north central Iowa. If anything flew over and > harassed the livestock we would take a shot at the varmit with a 22 > rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun. If someone flew over low enough to see the > shape of our teeth, there would be a strong desire to put a hole or two > in the wing. Stupidity should be rewarded with the knowledge that there > are certain behaviors that are not acceptable in rural areas. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:57 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots >> Yes, you hit a nerve, and yes, now I feel better. >> >> Jack B. Hart FF004 I'm with John H > > LS Jack H/Gang: I'm glad Lucien agrees with me. Here is what I said: "Be careful how you talk about country folks. There are a bunch of us on the Kolb List and we all fly Kolbs." john hauck mkIII M3-011 1992 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots From: "Dave Carr" Jack. I grew up in North Central Iowa, Charles City to be exact, Class of 1955. I shot quite a few Hawks also (not Haucks) that were harrasing farm animals. I always flew my rental Champ above 1500 feet to insure I wasnt a target for we buck toothed idiots . I guess it depends on whose Ox is being gored. -------- Dave Carr EAA Century Club CAF Life Member NRA Benafactor AMA member Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285608#285608 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > > > Jack H/Gang: > > I'm glad Lucien agrees with me. > > Here is what I said: > > "Be careful how you talk about country folks. There are a bunch of us on > the > Kolb List and we all fly Kolbs." > > john hauck > mkIII > M3-011 > 1992 BTW, I didn't mean to kick over a hornet's nest on this. Like I said, I'm and old TX country boy for many years, even tho I'm now a proud New Mexican. Dual citizenship is how I think of it. My only point to Jack was, just because you live out in the country doesn't give you a license to be stupid. 98% of us country folk don't do stupid $$$$ like shoot at aircraft but those of us who do should get their just deserts. If I offended anyone, my apologies as it wasn't my intent to cast dispersions on my country brethren. But as Forrest Gump has reminded us: "stupid is as stupid does". And shooting at aircraft with your 12 guage is just plain stupid no matter where you live! Do not archive LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285612#285612 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:19 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flight report > As for getting shot at, like I said when I flew PPC's > LS > Titan II SS I think I can speak for most of us Kolb List members in this respect. We are here to share our experience building and flying Kolbs. john hauck mkIII M3-011 1992 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:10 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: buck-tooth idiots FWIW and IMHO -- there are times when low flying is necessary; photography, game surveys, searches for lost children, etc. And it's great fun, which is probably why most pilots do it. But it can and does disturb animals, some more than others. Which is why the 1000' minimum altitude over wildlife refuges. Even at 1000', a Cessna will sometimes panic flocks of geese, most likely because its planform resembles a flying hawk. There are idiots everywhere who will shoot at anything that moves; they're certainly not just restricted to rural areas. And bad behavior is really not acceptable anywhere. I've done a lot of low flying, and yes, I've been shot at, mostly by duckhunters I didn't know were there. But birdshot won't reach me, and then I just turn & go elsewhere. No big deal. Not hit yet, seriously at least, and the hunters got their message across; stay out of this area. But I do try to "fly friendly" & not harass people or animals on the ground. I feel better that way. Russ K do not archive On Feb 9, 2010, at 8:30 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > > > Lucien, > > I grew up on a farm in north central Iowa. If anything flew over and > harassed the livestock we would take a shot at the varmit with a 22 > rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun. If someone flew over low enough to > see the > shape of our teeth, there would be a strong desire to put a hole or > two > in the wing. Stupidity should be rewarded with the knowledge that > there > are certain behaviors that are not acceptable in rural areas. > > The question here is, who is the idot? It is good to know that > Texas rural > folk were successful in your re-education. > > Yes, you hit a nerve, and yes, now I feel better. > > do not archive > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > At 11:18 AM 2/8/10 -0800, you wrote: >> >> One of the reasons I'm an altitude man and don't like low-and- >> slow..... I > worried the most about getting shot at back when I flew my powered > parachute. We flew out in the boonies of TX most of the time and > there was > no shortage of buck-tooth idiots around out there who'd not think > twice > about shooting at anything that flew over them. >> >> Even here I try to fly quietly and as high up as I can reasonably go > without wasting too much gas, etc....... >> >> LS >> >> -------- >> LS >> Titan II SS >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flight report From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > I think I can speak for most of us Kolb List members in this respect. > > We are here to share our experience building and flying Kolbs. > > john hauck > mkIII M3-011 > 1992 You're right, I did it again.... sorry about that..... To make this Kolb related, my FSII never got shot at either tho I flew it as relentlessly legal as I could at all times and stayed away from folks' houses and cows etc. When I flew it here I had to make doubly sure I was staying away from things on the ground due to the reduced climb rate of about 300fpm. Usually had to circle a bit outside the pattern to get up there but eventually I made it. Sure miss that plane. Travis has told me they still build the FS II kits on request; if I win the lottery and do another one I'm going to do the "naked cage" as well....... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285628#285628 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:07 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies)=2C Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match=2C but I am c urious about something else. One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is because it was reported to be "easy to fly"=2C among a few other attributes I wanted. I would consider my flying experience as "light to moderate". I've flown a Piper Cherokee=2C a few Cessnas (150's & 172's)=2C my own Cessna 172's ( about 500 hours combined=2C in my own 172's). Along with my factory-ir on flying=2C I've got around 20 or so hours dual with an instructor in a Qu icksilver trainer. So=2C my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours=2C give or tak e. Now=2C compared to many of you=2C that's just chump change. Some of you' ze guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. My question is=3B how difficult was it for you to learn to fly your Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your Kolb was "easy" ? (self taught or instructor taught) I will be taking be formal training=2C I guarantee that!! I'm not riskin g destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I crashed an ultralig ht once=2C assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was "good enough". Wrong!! ) I won't do THAT again!! My question is=3B Is it easy to learn to fly your Kolb? Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:06 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Mike I took a few hours of dual in a 150...jumped in the MkIII that I had back in the late 90's and never looked back.. The MKIII was easier for me to fly than my Firefly...Herb At 09:56 AM 2/9/2010, you wrote: >Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies), > > Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match, but > I am curious about something else. > One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is > because it was reported to be "easy to fly", among a few other > attributes I wanted. > > I would consider my flying experience as "light to > moderate". I've flown a Piper Cherokee, a few Cessnas (150's & > 172's), my own Cessna 172's (about 500 hours combined, in my own > 172's). Along with my factory-iron flying, I've got around 20 > or so hours dual with an instructor in a Quicksilver trainer. > So, my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours, give or take. > > Now, compared to many of you, that's just chump change. Some of > you'ze guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. > > My question is; how difficult was it for you to learn to fly your > Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your > Kolb was "easy"? (self taught or instructor taught) > > I will be taking be formal training, I guarantee that!! I'm not > risking destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I > crashed an ultralight once, assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was > "good enough". Wrong!!) I won't do THAT again!! > > My question is; Is it easy to learn to fly your Kolb? > >Mike Welch >MkIII > > >---------- >Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:54 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Really easy bird but you should aim your nose at the point you want to land, not out yonder somewhere like a cessna. Any taildragger symptoms will be exaggerated if you jack it up on longer legs or put too much toe-in. (guilty on both counts) BB On 9, Feb 2010, at 10:56 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies), > > Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match, but I am curious about something else. > One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is because it was reported to be "easy to fly", among a few other attributes I wanted. > > I would consider my flying experience as "light to moderate". I've flown a Piper Cherokee, a few Cessnas (150's & 172's), my own Cessna 172's (about 500 hours combined, in my own 172's). Along with my factory-iron flying, I've got around 20 or so hours dual with an instructor in a Quicksilver trainer. > So, my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours, give or take. > > Now, compared to many of you, that's just chump change. Some of you'ze guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. > > My question is; how difficult was it for you to learn to fly your Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your Kolb was "easy"? (self taught or instructor taught) > > I will be taking be formal training, I guarantee that!! I'm not risking destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I crashed an ultralight once, assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was "good enough". Wrong!!) I won't do THAT again!! > > My question is; Is it easy to learn to fly your Kolb? > > Mike Welch > MkIII > > > > > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:37 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Mike You will find that your MKIII IS easy to fly (assuming you built it right). There are a few differences that can bite you. First the high trust line will get you if you try a "crow hop". Chopping the power right after takeoff will result in severe pitch up trim just when you don't want it. Then if you then add power to recover from your unintended no power climb you will get the reverse. If you just take off normally you will easily adjust to prower/trim changes. The second most common issue is landing too high. You Cessna experience will count against you. Also Kolb flaps are very useful but powerful and will aggravate your Cessna training even more. Fly the plane with some power to what will feel like inches off the ground then cut the power. Use power on approach to make your MKIII fly like a Cessna landing and you will have no problems. SLOWLY learn to land with less power. Then after getting very comfortable you can try flaps. Landing with full flaps and no power is a highly skilled maneuver that I still can't get right. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies), Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match, but I am curious about something else. One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is because it was reported to be "easy to fly", among a few other attributes I wanted. I would consider my flying experience as "light to moderate". I've flown a Piper Cherokee, a few Cessnas (150's & 172's), my own Cessna 172's (about 500 hours combined, in my own 172's). Along with my factory-iron flying, I've got around 20 or so hours dual with an instructor in a Quicksilver trainer. So, my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours, give or take. Now, compared to many of you, that's just chump change. Some of you'ze guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. My question is; how difficult was it for you to learn to fly your Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your Kolb was "easy"? (self taught or instructor taught) I will be taking be formal training, I guarantee that!! I'm not risking destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I crashed an ultralight once, assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was "good enough". Wrong!!) I won't do THAT again!! My question is; Is it easy to learn to fly your Kolb? Mike Welch MkIII ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:19 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Rick=2C Thanks for the pointers. I'm very familiar with the high thrust line ten dencies. The Quick 2-seater I flew had the Rotax 582 top-mount. Pretty mu ch the same reaction. My private pilot flight instructor=2C decades ago=2C told me "Slow power changes"!!! "We aren't trying to scare the civilians"=2C he'd say. I make gradual throttle changes. During my U/L training=2C I got to where I liked to chop the power (remem ber..slowly)=2C drop the nose=2C and grease it in. I got to the point wher e my instructor and I carried on a casual conversation=2C all the while=2C while I flew in for a landing=2C but didn't touch down=2C instead=2C I flew 3 feet off the runway for it's entire length=2C and we talked about fishin g the whole time. When I got to the end=2C I'd throttle up=2C climb out=2C and do it again. Got so relaxed at landings=2C they were like 2nd nature. When I was a heckava lot younger (35 years ago) I used to hang glide. Fl aring too high isn't going to be a problem. That part seems pretty easy. Thanks for the input. BTW=2C For those that kept track=3B I put my MkIII construction on hold l ast spring=2C due to the construction of my house (1200' from the local air port). I've virtually finished building my house=2C break time is over=2C and I feel the urge to get back to work on the plane. My plan is get it do ne by early summer. The plane is fully painted=2C except for stripes. The engine is practica lly ready to fire up. Just some minor hook-ups to complete=2C and install my "already built" instrument panel. Mike Welch From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Mike You will find that your MKIII IS easy to fly (assuming you built it right). There are a few differences that can bite you. First the high trust line w ill get you if you try a "crow hop". Chopping the power right after takeoff will result in severe pitch up trim just when you don't want it. Then if y ou then add power to recover from your unintended no power climb you will g et the reverse. If you just take off normally you will easily adjust to pro wer/trim changes. The second most common issue is landing too high. You Cessna experience wil l count against you. Also Kolb flaps are very useful but powerful and will aggravate your Cessna training even more. Fly the plane with some power to what will feel like inches off the ground then cut the power. Use power on approach to make your MKIII fly like a Cessna landing and you will have no problems. SLOWLY learn to land with less power. Then after getting very com fortable you can try flaps. Landing with full flaps and no power is a highl y skilled maneuver that I still can't get right. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Tuesday=2C February 09=2C 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies)=2C Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match=2C but I am c urious about something else. One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is because it was reported to be "easy to fly"=2C among a few other attributes I wanted. I would consider my flying experience as "light to moderate". I've flown a Piper Cherokee=2C a few Cessnas (150's & 172's)=2C my own Cessna 172's ( about 500 hours combined=2C in my own 172's). Along with my factory-ir on flying=2C I've got around 20 or so hours dual with an instructor in a Qu icksilver trainer. So=2C my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours=2C give or tak e. Now=2C compared to many of you=2C that's just chump change. Some of you' ze guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. My question is=3B how difficult was it for you to learn to fly your Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your Kolb was "easy" ? (self taught or instructor taught) I will be taking be formal training=2C I guarantee that!! I'm not riskin g destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I crashed an ultralig ht once=2C assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was "good enough". Wrong!! ) I won't do THAT again!! My question is=3B Is it easy to learn to fly your Kolb? Mike Welch MkIII Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. Get it now. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:23 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots A few years ago a powered para glider decided to circle the golf course while we were golfing. After a few near misses from golf clubs (yes he was that low) he decided to move on. you have to wonder if all PPG pilots are..... Even in a Kolb we need to consider that some people might not like us bothering them. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucien" Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:48 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots > > > jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: >> Lucien, >> >> I grew up on a farm in north central Iowa. If anything flew over and >> harassed the livestock we would take a shot at the varmit with a 22 >> rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun. If someone flew over low enough to see the >> shape of our teeth, there would be a strong desire to put a hole or two >> in the wing. Stupidity should be rewarded with the knowledge that there >> are certain behaviors that are not acceptable in rural areas. >> >> The question here is, who is the idot? It is good to know that Texas >> rural >> folk were successful in your re-education. >> >> Yes, you hit a nerve, and yes, now I feel better. >> >> do not archive >> >> Jack B. Hart FF004 >> Winchester, IN >> > > > If you were shooting at aircraft who were flying at legal altitudes, I'm > with John H and you should still be in jail for your "varmint" hunting. > > If they were flying low enough to run your cows and etc., you should have > done the _right_ thing and get the authorities on the phone. Handling > stuff like that is what they're there for. > > Who's the idiot? Good question. You know the saying - guns don't kill > people, people kill people. > > LS > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285599#285599 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:38 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Mike the combination of your Cessna and Quicksilver experience means you'll have no trouble with your Kolb. If anything, get an hour or two in a Cub to get the hang of flying a taildragger. My experience was similar (except my plane was a T-Craft, so the taildragger issue didn't exist), and I just got in my UltraStar and flew it, no problem. You'll need to get a tailwheel endorsement anyway if you don't already have one or have tailwheel solo time before some cutoff date. -Dana At 10:56 AM 2/9/2010, Mike Welch wrote: >Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies), > > Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match, but I am > curious about something else. > One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is because > it was reported to be "easy to fly", among a few other attributes I wanted. > > I would consider my flying experience as "light to moderate". I've > flown a Piper Cherokee, a few Cessnas (150's & 172's), my own Cessna > 172's (about 500 hours combined, in my own 172's). Along with my > factory-iron flying, I've got around 20 or so hours dual with an > instructor in a Quicksilver trainer. > So, my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours, give or take. > > Now, compared to many of you, that's just chump change. Some of you'ze > guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. > > My question is; how difficult was it for you to learn to fly your > Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your Kolb was > "easy"? (self taught or instructor taught) > > I will be taking be formal training, I guarantee that!! I'm not > risking destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I crashed an > ultralight once, assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was "good > enough". Wrong!!) I won't do THAT again!! > > My question is; Is it easy to learn to fly your Kolb? > >Mike Welch >MkIII > > >---------- >Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now. > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced... Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice. -- Cherokee saying ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:42 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots At 12:42 PM 2/9/2010, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote: > > >A few years ago a powered para glider decided to circle the golf course >while we were golfing. After a few near misses from golf clubs (yes he was >that low) he decided to move on. you have to wonder if all PPG pilots are..... Speaking as a PPG pilot as well as a Kolb pilot, I can say that yes, many PPGers are..... but most are responsible. There are idiots in every realm of flight. -Dana -- When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced... Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice. -- Cherokee saying ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:53 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: buck-tooth idiots The danger with spooking/running cows is that some may be near delivery...could result in death to cow and calf...or a vet bill if some is around to catch the problem... Herb do not archive... At 11:42 AM 2/9/2010, you wrote: > > >A few years ago a powered para glider decided to circle the golf >course while we were golfing. After a few near misses from golf >clubs (yes he was that low) he decided to move on. you have to >wonder if all PPG pilots are..... > >Even in a Kolb we need to consider that some people might not like >us bothering them. > >Rick Neilsen ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "Jason Omelchuck" My $.02 worth Get some time in a cub and learn how to wheel land it. Jason MKIII Portland, OR [quote="mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co"]Gentlemen (and a couple of ladies) C Not that I want to get in the middle of your shootin' match C but I am curious about something else. One of the biggest reasons I chose to build a Kolb Mark III is because it was reported to be "easy to fly" C among a few other attributes I wanted. I would consider my flying experience as "light to moderate". I've flown a Piper Cherokee C a few Cessnas (150's & 172's) C my own Cessna 172's (about 500 hours combined C in my own 172's). Along with my factory-iron flying C I've got around 20 or so hours dualwith an instructorin a Quicksilver trainer. So C my total flying experience comes in around 600 hours C give or take. Now C compared to many of you C that's just chump change. Some of you'ze guys have thousands of hours in all kinds of aircraft. Some have less. My question is; how difficultwas it for you to learn to fly your Kolb? Would you really say your learning experience to fly your Kolb was "easy"?(self taught or instructor taught) I will be taking be formal training C I guarantee that!! I'm not risking destroying my Kolb or myself ASSUMING anything. (I crashed an ultralight once C assuming a few hours of Cessna dual was "good enough". Wrong!!) I won't do THAT again!! My question is; Is it easy tolearn to fly your Kolb? Mike Welch MkIII Hotmail: Free C trusted and rich email service. Get it now. > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285677#285677 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "Ralph B" There is a tendency to flare by pulling the stick all the way back on landing for pilots who have flown large aircraft. Try to resist this and fly the plane to the ground. Light planes have more drag and will lose speed faster. Pulling back will stall it quicker and then damage the gear. Sometimes it helps to actually put the stick forward and dive it in to keep the speed up. This is somewhat unnerving and pilots want to resist this, but it will keep from bending things. I do this in heavy winds. No need for using flaps on the first flights. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 23 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 2 years flying it 120 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285686#285686 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:19 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "lucien" To chime in with my .02, If the Mark III flies anything like my FS II did, the quicksilver training is probably going to be of the most value. It'll fly closer to that plane by far than it will the big iron. My FSII I basically just jumped in and went flying. Probably not what I'd recommend to someone else. But as soon as I got used to the tailwheel handling and flew the tail a bunch of times up and down the runway I pretty much just blasted off and went round the patch in it. I did do a couple of crow hops down the runway first at which point I discovered that once airborne the plane flew almost exactly like my old quicksilver did. So off I went. I did wheel landings about 95% of the time and if I bounced it a bit, some forward stick would glue it onto the runway. Big bounces of course I'd go around with smooth power applications and back pressure on the stick. It does fly like a low-inertia design, not a lot of hang time in the flare and you do kind of drive it onto the runway. The Mark III may fly a little different, tho. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285687#285687 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:39 PM PST US From: "Steve Simmons" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb It is funny, when I wanted to learn to fly the Firstar, I got the basic power settings from the ex owner and since I did not have access to anyone else that I knew of to teach me with a Kolb I went out with one of my friends and did 30 to 40 T/O and landings on a old 7AC then started crow hopping, after about five or six trips up and down the runway I powered up and took off to my surprise the little bird flew and landed just like the old DC3 I use to fly freight in, perfect 3point landings and no bad habitat. By the way it was not because of the pilot it just felt natural. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph B Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:04 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb There is a tendency to flare by pulling the stick all the way back on landing for pilots who have flown large aircraft. Try to resist this and fly the plane to the ground. Light planes have more drag and will lose speed faster. Pulling back will stall it quicker and then damage the gear. Sometimes it helps to actually put the stick forward and dive it in to keep the speed up. This is somewhat unnerving and pilots want to resist this, but it will keep from bending things. I do this in heavy winds. No need for using flaps on the first flights. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 23 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 2 years flying it 120 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285686#285686 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flight report From: zeprep251@aol.com Sorry I mentioned it guys.I figured the first thing the Fed would do is find something wrong with me or my aircraft or my paperwork.Since I could not give them Lat-Long co-ordinates and the color of the shooters eyes it was useless.It's like trying to teach a pig how to whistle.It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.I try to be considerate of all on the ground,b ut I may be taking the heat for some idiot who was less caring. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 9:59 am "John Hauck" > As for getting shot at, like I said when I flew PPC's > LS > Titan II SS I think I can speak for most of us Kolb List members in this respect. We are here to share our experience building and flying Kolbs. john hauck mkIII M3-011 1992 ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:50 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument valley flyin -2010 From: "miyer2u" Hello John and team, Thanks for your inputs on the monument valley fly-in. Arty called me and she was so kind to walk me through every detail of the fly-in, right from flying from Oregon to trailering my FS. PS: Larry, I am still thinking and working through my decision process to fly with Arty from Oregon to MV. I am not a very experienced pilot so trying to understand the routes on the sectionals and thinking through the surprises!. I even heard of your long XC to Texas and the many experiences you had. If I dont fly, I will trailer my little puppy to the Flyin to meet and fly with all of you! One way or the other I am committed to be in MV! Best regards, Mahesh. FS-2, Phoenix , Oregon . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285711#285711 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:19 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument valley flyin -2010 > One way or the other I am committed to be in MV?! > > Best regards, > > Mahesh. Mahesh/Gang: That's great! I love a guy with a sense of adventure, guts, and the ability to take time off from work. ;-) Looking forward to meeting Mahesh at MV. Take care, john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:12 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb > To chime in with my .02, > > LS Wouldn't it be better to comment on MKIII flight characteristics if you were qualified in that particular aircraft? john hauck MKIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:34 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb > By the way it was not because of the pilot it just felt natural. > Steve S/Gang: Kolbs are beautiful, gentle, comfortable little airplanes to fly. As you so well put, "have a natural feel." Some new guys have difficulty with Kolbs because they don't fly the airplane. Kolbs do not fly by themselves. Stick to the basics, keep it above the stall, and it won't fall through on short final. Like any other fixed wing, won't fly below the stall. Lowering stall speed doesn't help. Keeping aircraft above stall speed does. All Kolb models do well with wheel landings and three point full stall landings. It isn't the aircrafts fault if you can't fly. So simple, so basic. If it was anything more, I couldn't do it. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:31 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flight report Quite possible there have been other reports of aircraft being fired on in your area of operations. Even though you can't pin point the location, the general area of your flying might give them additional information to work on. There may be incidents in their files, no matter old or new, that might lead them to the shooter(s). Getting shot has some pretty serious implications. I would venture to say the shooter was aiming at the center of mass of your aircraft, about where you were sitting. Good thing he was a poor marksman. Next time he may not miss the pilot. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Sorry I mentioned it guys.I figured the first thing the Fed would do is find something wrong with me or my aircraft or my paperwork.Since I could not give them Lat-Long co-ordinates and the color of the shooters eyes it was useless.It's like trying to teach a pig how to whistle.It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.I try to be considerate of all on the ground,but I may be taking the heat for some idiot who was less caring. G.Aman ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:03 PM PST US From: john taylor Subject: Kolb-List: country folk & gettin shot at !! well said, mr hauck. keep 'em straight. those yankee city folk sometimes ge t a little confused & need a lil kindly guidance. good job. john bowman, av id+ bldg, s. la.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: luc ien =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, F ebruary 9, 2010 8:02:31 AM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: Flight report=0A=0A--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" =0A=0A=0AJ ohn Hauck wrote:=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> How do you accomplish that?=0A> =0A> Jo hn Williamson and I have low leveled from Sherman, TX, to Monument Valley, =0A> UT, continued low level from there to the Rock House, 7 miles south of Burns =0A> Junction, OR.- If we were shot at during that flight, we neve r knew it.=0A> =0A> Last time either John W or I were shot at, that we know of, is Vietnam 1970 =0A> for me, and I can't remember when John W came hom e the last time, 1972, =0A> kinda rings a bell.- Of course, we were both in a wonderful position to =0A> defend ourselves in VN.=0A> =0A> Be careful how you talk about country folks.- There are a bunch of us on the =0A> K olb List and we all fly Kolbs.- ;-)=0A> =0A> john hauck=0A> mkIII=0A> hau ck's holler=0A> Titus, Alabama=0A=0A=0AIt's hard with my 912 and the big ol 70" prop, but I try to get as high as possible before getting near neighbo rhoods and then back off the power as soon as I can. Sort of an, er, noise abatement procedure for what it's worth.=0A=0ADon't worry, I'm a 30-year TX back country dude myself so I know whereof I speak.=0A=0AAs for getting sh ot at, like I said when I flew PPC's with my good friends in TX was when we had the most trouble with people on the ground. Even when you're legal (as we always tried to be) PPC's move so slow that the noise just hangs there in the air. It also can take a while to get to altitude so you have a Rotax scream in one general place above your house for a long time. =0AWe had to be very careful not to run folks' cows and otherwise disturb people on the ground - altering our route a bunch if necessary to stay away from noise-s ensitive areas and folks. =0AEven with all that, we often still had message s on our cell phones at the end of the flight back at the field.=0A=0AWe we re even not well liked at local airports, even tho we had comms on board an d obeyed traffic pattern rules. It still looked like we were "cuttin' up" e ven tho we were otherwise following the rules.=0A=0AThat was probably my ma in turnoff of PPC flying, it really took a lot of the fun out of it. I even tually sold my PPC partly for that reason.=0A=0APlus I'm basically a 3-axis guy anyway. And it's nice to not have the whole community pi$$ed off at me after a flight. Sure is more fun that way ;).=0A=0ALS=0A=0A--------=0ALS =0ATitan II SS=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum -======================== ============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "ces308" Hello...Here is my 2 cents worth....As Rick said ,fly it right down to the ground...and I use flaps always...I maintain 55 mph all the way to the ground then level off and let it settle...and I mean inches from the ground...also if you are the one test flying it,go up with someone in your 172 and have then put the airplane way out of trim with them holding it level so when you take it you get the feel of it out of trim and deal with it ...that way if you get up with your Kolb,you will automatically have a feel for a problem....Just a thought.... Good luck ! chris ambrose M3X/Jab N327CS 98.0hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285746#285746 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:53 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: country folk & gettin shot at !! At 07:52 PM 2/9/2010, john taylor wrote: >well said, mr hauck. keep 'em straight. those yankee city folk sometimes >get a little confused & need a lil kindly guidance. good job. john bowman, >avid+ bldg, s. la. Hey, some of use are Yankee _country_ folk! Never been shot at, that I know of, but my part of Connecticut is mostly woods so I don't fly that low very often... -Dana do not archive -- Sometimes it is easier to beg forgiveness than get permission. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:53 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb > If the Mark III flies anything like my FS II did, the quicksilver training is probably going to be of the most value. It'll fly closer to that plane by far than it will the big iron. > > LS > Titan II SS Lucien/Gang: Sorry to be a "spring butt", but sometimes I feel it necessary to qualify some of the comments made on the Kolb List. Mike Welch probably isn't looking for comments from someone with limited Kolb experience, and no MKIII experience, to give him ideas on what to expect when flying a MKIII. Since you are not MKIII qualified, and he isn't looking for FSII flight characteristics, your comments might lend more harm than good. I find most of your comments on the Kolb List are information you pick up from other sources, and not necessarily your own personal, hands on experience. Some of it is good, and some of it is not so good. You come across as a fair weather flyer, rather than a well rounded all weather VFR pilot. To be an accomplished Kolb pilot, I believe it is necessary to experience and feel comfortable controlling the aircraft in uncomfortable weather. During my flying career it has always been very easy to get caught out in bad weather, not matter what I was flying. >From my own personal experience, a J3 Cub and Aeronca Champ have similar flight characteristics and feel, to those of the MKIII. Probably because of similar weight, airspeed, airfoil, and tube and fabric construction, not tube and sails. I have never flown any other ultralight than a Kolb or Bert Howland's H2 Honey Bee. So I am not qualified to comment on how a Quicksilver flies, although I have watched them fly and listened to many pilots that fly them. Based on those comments, they do not fly like a Kolb. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:27 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb At 08:29 PM 2/9/2010, John Hauck wrote: >I have never flown any other ultralight than a Kolb or Bert Howland's H2 >Honey Bee. So I am not qualified to comment on how a Quicksilver flies, >although I have watched them fly and listened to many pilots that fly >them. Based on those comments, they do not fly like a Kolb. John, You're correct that Quicksilver flies nothing like a Kolb. However, for a pilot used to flying Cessnas or similar, the low speed and inertia of a Quick will give a prospective Kolb pilot a taste of that kind of behavior, enough to give a Cessna driver a good chance of getting his new Kolb up and down without bending it (though some Cub or similar tailwheel time would be a good idea too). It's a lot easier to find somebody instructing in a 2 seat Quicksilver than a Kolb. Of course I've never flown a MKIII, only my US and my friend's FSII, so all I can do is extrapolate there. -Dana -- Sometimes it is easier to beg forgiveness than get permission. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:26 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Learning to fly a Kolb Gentlemen=2C Yes=2C as John pointed out=2C I was more specifically asking about the ac tual learning and flying of a Kolb MkIII. Without a doubt=2C a few Firesta r comments couldn't hurt=2C but it is my MkIII that I hope to learn to fly this summer. Thanks. Mike Welch MkIII _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:29 PM PST US From: "Steve Simmons" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb I have got a MarkIIIC but it is not flyable yet, hopefully next month I had a firefly for about a year so I have more time if the firefly than the mark III. I have about 30 minutes in a MarkIII with Steve Green so I have a lot to learn yet. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb > To chime in with my .02, > > LS Wouldn't it be better to comment on MKIII flight characteristics if you were qualified in that particular aircraft? john hauck MKIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:13 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "ces308" Mike ,,if you are ever near Houghton Lake ,Mi, I would be happy to give you some time in a M3X....it's not hard...just different... chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru 98.0+ hrs N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285775#285775 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "ces308" Mike....check out my videos on you tube...search ces308 and they will come up. chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285778#285778 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb I have about 30 minutes in a MarkIII with Steve Green so I have a lot > to learn yet. Steve S/Gang: Hated to see Steven G sell his MKIII. We made several long flights together, the last was out to Monument Valley, Utah, a few years ago. I had only flown Ultrastar and Firestar, when I crawled in the old Kolb factory MKIII up at Homer's in Feb 1991. Dennis Souder took me for an impressive ride around the patch, demonstrated an ultra steep full flap approach, not on the grass strip, but on the short piece of grass next to the hanger. After I got my heart out of my throat, Dennis hopped out and I went flying with zero MKIII stick time. Kolbs are easy to fly, but you have to have some air sense and air speed. Get below the stall and the Kolb will fall. There is no such thing as "Kolb Quit". There are some folks that can't fly though. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.