---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/11/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III (lucien) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: Firefly again (lucien) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: Re: Firefly again (Jack B. Hart) 4. 07:42 AM - Re: Firefly again (lucien) 5. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Firefly again (russ kinne) 6. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Firefly again (Mike Welch) 7. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: Firefly again (kolbdriver@mlsharp.com) 8. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Firefly again (russ kinne) 9. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Firefly again (Mike Welch) 10. 01:57 PM - Re: Learning to fly a Kolb (lucien) 11. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Firefly again (Dana Hague) 12. 05:09 PM - Re: Firefly again (lucien) 13. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Firefly again (Dana Hague) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:40 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III From: "lucien" capedavis(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Jack /Gang, I have been biting my tongue about what I thought and what happened to me but your mention of sailplanes perked me up I think that the best training for almost any aircraft is to take some instruction in a Glider .I was earning my Private Glider permit while i was building my firestar KXP and the switzer 233 is a great teacher really relating to flying the airplane not just looking at guages and trying to fly by some numbers that although they work in a Cessna 172 dont necessarily work in all aircraft and definitely dont work in a KOLB , Learn to fly with No engine and a dead stick landing every time will teach you so much about flying trhat when you get in aKolb and learn that pushing the throttle forward doesnt make the nose go up the rest is simple" just fly the aircraft"performance of the aircraft becomes apparent as you fly and In the 2 stroke world as frequently happens at least sometimes happens an engine out is not a panic situation you just "fly the aircraft" . The art of flying is so necessary when flying with no engine that in my opinion should be required before anyone get a permit to fly anything with an engine and > I should say that flying the Kolb Firestar was a very logical Very Very much like flying the 233 lighter but the same response to input from me the air , the wind the stall speed, as all aircraft I have flown. > Chris Davis > KXP 503 492 hrs > Glider Pilot > Disabled from crash building Firefly > I'll second the value of glider training, tho how applicable it would be to flying a Kolb I wouldn't say is worth enough for everybody to run out and go get their sailplane rating. I worked on a sailplane rating up till solo (stopped at that point for time/money and partially interest reasons) and it was good stick/rudder training for sure. OTOH, the sailplane I trained in (Grob 109) had a much better glide ratio than any of the powered planes I've ever flown. So the sink rate I learned in the sailplane certainly didn't correspond to the sink rate of, say, my FSII. So you'd have to practice that all over again in your powered plane. The handling is also significantly different. It does teach you a lot about energy managment as well as how to be sensitive to the stall characteristics of your plane, general seat-of-the-pants flying and so on (I missed the freedom and versatility of having an engine, tho. And the tow I never grew to like). So all that will help. But there's no substitute for time-in-type, IME.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285932#285932 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again From: "lucien" My second question on the FF and again sorry if this is an FAQ: Is the plane strong enough to handle the 503? At my altitude the 503 pretty much becomes a 447 so if I were to go with an FF I might consider putting a 503 on it. Also the 447 is likely going to be discontinued before the 503 if the rumors I've heard from some dealers are true so the 503 is a little more future-proof. Thanks, LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285936#285936 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:54 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again Lucien, I can't imagine that the FireFly would ever run out of climb with a 447. With a 503, you would have to be careful to keep the speeds down or you will have to counter balance the ailerons. The 503 will weigh a little more, so will also have to give up some useful load. And, you will not be able to take advantage of 103-7. Just finished making more snow blower shear pins. Have to go back out and blow some more so the wife can get back home. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN At 06:24 AM 2/11/10 -0800, you wrote: > >My second question on the FF and again sorry if this is an FAQ: Is the plane strong enough to handle the 503? At my altitude the 503 pretty much becomes a 447 so if I were to go with an FF I might consider putting a 503 on it. >Also the 447 is likely going to be discontinued before the 503 if the rumors I've heard from some dealers are true so the 503 is a little more future-proof. > >Thanks, >LS ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again From: "lucien" jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: > Lucien, > > I can't imagine that the FireFly would ever run out of climb with a 447. > With a 503, you would have to be careful to keep the speeds down or you will > have to counter balance the ailerons. The 503 will weigh a little more, so > will also have to give up some useful load. And, you will not be able to > take advantage of 103-7. > > Just finished making more snow blower shear pins. Have to go back out and > blow some more so the wife can get back home. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > Hi Jack, Ok, thanks for the info. Sounds like the 447 is the better way to go on a FF in any case. Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kolb and build it too, so it's the way I want. Travis sent me some price lists and looks like the FF is significantly less expensive. Hopefully once I get some more debts paid down I can start getting more serious about it. Not sure if I'd go part 103 or not. I'd want to do the full Stitts process on the covering as at my altitude the sun cooks everything in sight with UV radiation all year round. So I'd want the full UV protection. I think that alone will put it outside of 103 from what I understand. So I'd probably just go EAB. Snow has let up here, but only a few more weeks left in the good part of the flying season. Think it's going to start warming up finally. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285945#285945 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:56 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again I believe there's a FF with a 912 on it -- flies beautifully. On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:24 AM, lucien wrote: > > My second question on the FF and again sorry if this is an FAQ: Is > the plane strong enough to handle the 503? At my altitude the 503 > pretty much becomes a 447 so if I were to go with an FF I might > consider putting a 503 on it. > Also the 447 is likely going to be discontinued before the 503 if > the rumors I've heard from some dealers are true so the 503 is a > little more future-proof. > > Thanks, > LS > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285936#285936 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:46 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again > Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kol b > > LS > Titan II SS Lucien=2C Although it does take away from my airplane time=2C I've told my wife I'd be willing to make the phone calls to get her a second job. She's too bus y to put much time into it=2C but she says she'd appreciate my sacrifice! The way I figure it=2C if she got a second job=2C I could stay out all da y playing with my three airplanes=2C and only come in when she had dinner d one. She says she's lucky to have me. Hey=2C I can be thoughtful once in awhi le. Mike Welch headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:24 AM PST US From: kolbdriver@mlsharp.com Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again You are SO GOOD to her!!! - Mike - do not archive --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Mike Welch wrote: - She says she's lucky to have me.- Hey, I can be thoughtful once in aw hile. - Mike Welch headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings. - ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:38 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again Mike! Where can I find a Kolb-tolerant wife like yours??? What's your secret? do not archive On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Mike Welch wrote: > > Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get > another Kolb > > > > LS > > Titan II SS > > Lucien, > > Although it does take away from my airplane time, I've told my > wife I'd be willing to make the phone calls to get her a second > job. She's too busy to put much time into it, but she says she'd > appreciate my sacrifice! > > The way I figure it, if she got a second job, I could stay out > all day playing with my three airplanes, and only come in when she > had dinner done. > > She says she's lucky to have me. Hey, I can be thoughtful once > in awhile. > > Mike Welch > headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings. > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Winrect/01/' target='_new'>Sign > up now. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:32 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again Hi Russ=2C The secret comes from not letting her know what a big mouth I am. he he I just back in from working on resetting all the new incidences to my MkI II's wings. It seems like more work the second time around. I also have t o rest the mounts for the horiz. stabilizer=2C too. Before I got real serious about drilling=2C I gave those great guys at TN K a call. They sure are a helpful bunch!! Dennis gave me the incidences I need to rig that hybrid up properly. BTW=2C the secret to having a great wife is being a great husband. :-) (41 years together) Mike Welch MkIII CX From: russkinne@mac.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again Mike! Where can I find a Kolb-tolerant wife like yours??? What's your secret? do not archive On Feb 11=2C 2010=2C at 11:00 AM=2C Mike Welch wrote: > Trying to scheme a way to keep my current plane but still get another Kol b > > LS > Titan II SS Lucien=2C Although it does take away from my airplane time=2C I've told my wife I'd be willing to make the phone calls to get her a second job. She's too bus y to put much time into it=2C but she says she'd appreciate my sacrifice! The way I figure it=2C if she got a second job=2C I could stay out all da y playing with my three airplanes=2C and only come in when she had dinner d one. She says she's lucky to have me. Hey=2C I can be thoughtful once in awhi le. Mike Welch headed back to my shop to work on mounting the wings. Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Winrect/01/' target='_new'>Sign up no w. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb From: "lucien" mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co wrote: > On my very first landing C I made the mistake of pulling the power to idle on short final C knowing that I had the runway made. > > Dennis Kirby > Mark-III C 912ul C Powerfin-72 > Sandia Park C NM > I did this a few times in my FS II also... with the predictable results. Don't know about the MarkIII, but the FS II runs out of energy and fast when you pull the power back in the flare (perhaps on mine that was aided by the windmilling prop too). In calm conditions the very short "hang time" was manageable but when it was windy or lumpy, I found it better to fly it onto the ground and wheel land it. When practicing engine-out landings, I'd do pretty much the same thing but carrying a little extra energy (like the sailplane guys do when it's windy).... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286005#286005 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:07 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again At 10:39 AM 2/11/2010, lucien wrote: >Not sure if I'd go part 103 or not. I'd want to do the full Stitts process >on the covering as at my altitude the sun cooks everything in sight with >UV radiation all year round. So I'd want the full UV protection. I think >that alone will put it outside of 103 from what I understand. So I'd >probably just go EAB. Personally, I wouldn't build a single seat plane unless for 103, unless there was some overriding reason. Even though most of my flying, even when I had a 2 seater, was solo, there are still times when you want to take somebody along. Between a Firefly and Firestar, I can't see any point in the FF except to go 103. -Dana -- Exceeding the legal fun limit on a regular basis ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:24 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again From: "lucien" Dana wrote: > > Personally, I wouldn't build a single seat plane unless for 103, unless there was some overriding reason. Even though most of my flying, even when I had a 2 seater, was solo, there are still times when you want to take somebody along. Between a Firefly and Firestar, I can't see any point in the FF except to go 103. > > -Dana > Yeah good point, and this will have to factor into it as to which one I'd go with. I'd strongly like to go 103 with a FF, but being able to actually meet 103 and insurance are two issues right off the top of my head I'd have to deal with immediately. IIRC, the FF exceeds 254lb empty if you use the full Stitts process on the covering. But I'd definitely want to go ahead and do the whole process mostly for the longevity and full UV protection. Then I might want to use different wheels or a full windscreen, etc. all would add weight. Apart from that, getting insurance on an ultralight, well, I'm almost afraid to ask my insurer what that would cost if I could even get it ;). EAB certification would solve both of those problems pretty much. That would trash resale but OTOH I wouldn't be building it to sell. The FS II of course I already have experience with, but it'd be more pricey to build. It's also a little bigger which would be an extra consideration if I ever trailer it, etc. So... anyway, this is a long ways out before I could really do it so I have plenty of time on my hands to think it over and research it. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286047#286047 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:55 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly again At 08:05 PM 2/11/2010, lucien wrote: >Apart from that, getting insurance on an ultralight, well, I'm almost >afraid to ask my insurer what that would cost if I could even get it ;). $386.25/year from USUA or ASC, whether N-numbered or not. If you're talking hull insurance, well, that might be more problematic... -Dana -- Help, I've fallen up and I can't get down ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.