---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/15/10: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:37 AM - Re: Rotax 503 Running Rough (lucien) 2. 05:51 AM - Re: old Kolb promo videos (lucien) 3. 06:26 AM - Re: old Kolb promo videos (Thom Riddle) 4. 06:56 AM - Re: old Kolb promo videos (lucien) 5. 08:08 AM - Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (lucien) 6. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (robert bean) 7. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Bob Kravis) 8. 08:36 AM - Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (lucien) 9. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Herb) 10. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Bob Kravis) 11. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (John Hauck) 12. 09:28 AM - Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Richard Pike) 13. 09:59 AM - Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Thom Riddle) 14. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Bob Kravis) 15. 11:02 AM - Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (lucien) 16. 11:53 AM - air restart... (Herb) 17. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Dana Hague) 18. 02:56 PM - Keeping the Firefly part 103 legal (Lanny Fetterman) 19. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (John Hauck) 20. 05:54 PM - In flight Adjustable Trim (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 21. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 22. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (John Hauck) 23. 08:53 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Dana Hague) 24. 09:11 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (John Hauck) 25. 09:51 PM - Re: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase (Bob Kravis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax 503 Running Rough From: "lucien" gliderx5 wrote: > Update on the 503. I took everything apart again, tweaked the timing, put in 2 new resistor plugs, and it runs like new. I'm not sure what the issue was, but I suspect it may have been a condenser. I now have good timing, new points, condensers, and plugs. I did reseat the wires on the coils, which could have been an issue also. Now, I just need some nice flying weather. I did a quick flight today just to check out the engine, but it was windy and bumpy. > > Malcolm Morrison > --- Well, as you've discovered by now, ;), the older points 503's are a little bit like our old cars used to be regarding the points. Pretty much the same maintenance/trouble-shooting steps hold there that used to hold on our old Fords etc.... A couple things to keep in mind on the points motors. With new points, be aware that the cam lobe on the points will wear a little quickly when they're new (this is of course reduced if you lube the cam when you install the new points). So expect the dwell to reduce and the timing to retard a little bit at first. Once they wear in, tho, they'll stay put. I didn't have to adjust the timing on my points 503 at all after the points wore in. Another possible trouble spot is overtightening the fan belt. There's a caution against this in the manual for the points motors. this can actually pull the crank out of position slightly which can goof up the timing. Otherwise, the points 503's are remarkably reliable, unlike our old cars' points which we were kind of always fiddling with. Once worn in and set, the motor should run a long time with no maintenance to the points.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286524#286524 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: old Kolb promo videos From: "lucien" Boy now these are some vids you can't ever get tired of watching.... Thanks for posting these links. Watching the slingshot fly I don't see why there's not a whole bunch of these. Which is my next question - how many SS's did there end up being built? Seems like it should be a pretty popular model? How's the handling on the ground? LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286526#286526 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:35 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: old Kolb promo videos From: "Thom Riddle" Lucien, My SS is serial #021 and it was built in 2000 but I don't know how many more have been built since then. I know there is one under construction in Wellsboro, PA. With the very long main gear legs, the weight on the tail is pretty heavy. I think mine is about 105 lb. in flight level mode, empty. In three point it is closer to 120 lb. empty and a bit more with fuel. The relatively heavy tail means it behaves more like GA tail draggers on the ground than most Kolbs. On grass it is still easy to handle but a little more challenging on pavement. By way of comparison, it is less squirrelly than the PA-11 (90 hp Cub) that I got my initial tail wheel training in, but a bit more likely to swap ends than the RAN S6 tail dragger that I used to fly. It is not hard to handle but you should have some REAL taildragger experience before going from a short leg Kolb to an SS on pavement. In the air, it has wonderfully light controls and quick aileron response compared to the big wing Kolbs. It does not float at all with the short (22') 110 sqft wings so when you cut power to idle it comes down right now which makes for great pinpoint touchdown. Also on the plus side, compared to big wing Kolbs, is that it has more energy for flare and less drag to kill that energy during flare. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought. - Simon Cameron Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286531#286531 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:19 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: old Kolb promo videos From: "lucien" Thom Riddle wrote: > Lucien, > > My SS is serial #021 and it was built in 2000 but I don't know how many more have been built since then. I know there is one under construction in Wellsboro, PA. > > With the very long main gear legs, the weight on the tail is pretty heavy. I think mine is about 105 lb. in flight level mode, empty. In three point it is closer to 120 lb. empty and a bit more with fuel. The relatively heavy tail means it behaves more like GA tail draggers on the ground than most Kolbs. On grass it is still easy to handle but a little more challenging on pavement. > > By way of comparison, it is less squirrelly than the PA-11 (90 hp Cub) that I got my initial tail wheel training in, but a bit more likely to swap ends than the RAN S6 tail dragger that I used to fly. It is not hard to handle but you should have some REAL taildragger experience before going from a short leg Kolb to an SS on pavement. > > In the air, it has wonderfully light controls and quick aileron response compared to the big wing Kolbs. It does not float at all with the short (22') 110 sqft wings so when you cut power to idle it comes down right now which makes for great pinpoint touchdown. Also on the plus side, compared to big wing Kolbs, is that it has more energy for flare and less drag to kill that energy during flare. Ok, thanks Thom. And here I was thinking I did have "real" TW time in my FS II ;). But seriously, understood on the handling, I've heard on here on the list that the SS is more like a traditional TW plane. If my Kolb plans come together in a few years I'll likely be doing the more docile FS II or FF, but was just curious about the SS. Once I get the pickup paid off here in a few months I'll be a little closer to being able to make a decision.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286535#286535 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: "lucien" herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > Bob > > Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt > 103 wt? Herb > > I like the extra leg brace...good luck... > > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103? -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: robert bean You might be able to mount a dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) and make weight. :) BB do not archive On 15, Feb 2010, at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote: > > > herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: >> Bob >> >> Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt >> 103 wt? Herb >> >> I like the extra leg brace...good luck... >> >> > > > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. > > But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103? > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: Bob Kravis Hal, the owner says it's current weight is 280#. With the Part 103 allowance for a chute it needs to be 278#. So without the battery and starter it should make legal weight. bk On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote: > > > herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > > Bob > > > > Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt > > 103 wt? Herb > > > > I like the extra leg brace...good luck... > > > > > > > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on > it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. > > But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty > weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103? > > -------- > LS > Titan II SS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:40 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: "lucien" slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: > You might be able to mount a dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) and make weight. > :) > BB > do not archive > > Getting rid of the electric start would be the #1 thing I'd do. that's a lot of dead weight that you don't really need. You could put on the Rotax pull start and a Key West regulator (if you really wanted to do away with the battery altogether) and lose a good 20lbs right off the bat. With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of trouble..... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286545#286545 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:39 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase Hey!!! You are stealing my idea!!! :-) Herb At 10:14 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote: > >You might be able to mount a dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) >and make weight. >:) >BB >do not archive > >On 15, Feb 2010, at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote: > > > > > > > herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > >> Bob > >> > >> Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt > >> 103 wt? Herb > >> > >> I like the extra leg brace...good luck... > >> > >> > > > > > > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric > start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. > > > > But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the > typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103? > > > > -------- > > LS > > Titan II SS > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >02/15/10 07:35:00 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: Bob Kravis >From what I've seen at http://www.compactradialengines.com/mz201.html this engine has an additional 5 hp and saves 13 lbs. with a gearbox and elec. start. Saves 29 lbs. with a belt drive. What I have not been able to find is any owner comments about this engine. Has anybody heard any reports or have an opinion (whoops, now I did it! Should start a new thread if you respond.) bk On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Herb wrote: > > Hey!!! You are stealing my idea!!! :-) Herb > > > At 10:14 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote: > >> >> You might be able to mount a dummy ballistic chute (featherweight) and >> make weight. >> :) >> BB >> do not archive >> >> On 15, Feb 2010, at 11:07 AM, lucien wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt >> >> 103 wt? Herb >> >> >> >> I like the extra leg brace...good luck... >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start >> on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254. >> > >> > But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical >> empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103? >> > >> > -------- >> > LS >> > Titan II SS >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 02/15/10 07:35:00 >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:43 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of trouble..... > > LS Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's seat. It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine. I always started my Firestar from outside the aircraft. Everyone else I know did the same thing. With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the most difficult position to pull start. If you think about it, it is push start, not pull start from the seated position. I'm sure you already were aware of this. I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a warm engine. I could not start it cold. I was in fair shape back then. Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight. However, one would have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 legal. john hauck mkIII Woodville, Florida ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:52 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: "Richard Pike" John Hauck wrote: > > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull > through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of > trouble..... > > > > > LS > > > > > > > Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's > seat. > > It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine. I always started my > Firestar from outside the aircraft. Everyone else I know did the same > thing. > > With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the > most difficult position to pull start. If you think about it, it is push > start, not pull start from the seated position. I'm sure you already were > aware of this. > > I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a > warm engine. I could not start it cold. I was in fair shape back then. > > Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight. However, one would > have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 > legal. > > john hauck > mkIII > Woodville, Florida Amen. My Hummer had the recoil starter cable routed down the main tube, around a big pulley by the feet, and then the handle out in front, so that you could pull it towards you. Maxair Drifters likewise. I did my J-6 the same way, the pull starter was located with the handle at the base of the panel, and if the 532 was not being obstinate, you could start it from the pilot's seat without regretting it the next day. Rigging something like that in a Firefly (or any Kolb) will require some creative mods around the front end of the cage... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldpoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286550#286550 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: "Thom Riddle" I could not start my early FS w/ 447 from the seat when cold but could easily do so when warm. I'm not strong and have bad shoulders. It probably depends somewhat upon how the starter rope is routed and how easy your particular engine is to turn over. Mine had a very light weight 2-blade PowerFin prop so the strength required to overcome the inertia was minimized. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought. - Simon Cameron Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286553#286553 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: Bob Kravis The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane. He said, "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor Mr. Andrew Johnson EAA CH. 492. There has always been some discussion about the whipping action of KOLB gear when landing and he thought that the addition of that part would help with that. I can say that having put the same thing on my FIRESTAR II and having a whole bunch of landings on it I am pretty impressed with his idea. He is a retired BOEING engineer that worked on numerous BOEING airframe designs. I did bend 1 rt side gear leg on my FIRESTAR II by hitting an unseen hole in a field but even then the support leg prevented the gear leg from folding back and I was able to taxi back to the apron. The legs are mounted by MIG welding 4130 steel tabs to the outside of the frame at a location that will transfer any loads to the most tubes and on the axel support bracket. They are readily removable if deemed unneeded. I spoke about this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them. In retrospect, having the same parts installed on my FIRESTAR II, I wish that they would include something like this on their kits. It does do the job for me very nicely and adds very little weight. The only un-removable parts are the 4 small tabs welded to the frame and axel support brackets. Those part might go a couple of ounces but I feel the gain is worth the weight." On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:05 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull > through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of > trouble..... > >> >> LS >> > > > Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's > seat. > > It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine. I always started my > Firestar from outside the aircraft. Everyone else I know did the same > thing. > > With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the > most difficult position to pull start. If you think about it, it is push > start, not pull start from the seated position. I'm sure you already were > aware of this. > > I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting > a warm engine. I could not start it cold. I was in fair shape back then. > > Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight. However, one would > have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 > legal. > > john hauck > mkIII > Woodville, Florida > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's > seat. > > I do, tho, have a lot of time pull-starting 447's overhead with with the starter rope (on a different plane) - as Thom said, contributing factors on how easy/hard it is are the prop used and how the handle is routed. It's a lot harder regardless of engine with a heavier prop, the 3 blade IVO can put you to task getting the works up to the required 300 rpm especially in the seat pulling overhead. Also, if the rope is too far back or things are in the way when you're pulling that won't help either. My starter rope on my FS II for example was routed a little too far back to have any hope of starting from the seat. Well, it was a 503 also which is pretty stiff even with the clutch.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286560#286560 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:09 AM PST US From: Herb Subject: Kolb-List: air restart... If one has altitude when the engine goes quiet, then the prop could assist the pull start by putting the plane in a bit of a dive... Low and slow...better fly the plane..:-) Herb At 01:01 PM 2/15/2010, you wrote: > > >John Hauck wrote: > > > > Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's > > seat. > > > > > > >I do, tho, have a lot of time pull-starting 447's overhead with with >the starter rope (on a different plane) - as Thom said, contributing >factors on how easy/hard it is are the prop used and how the handle is routed. > >It's a lot harder regardless of engine with a heavier prop, the 3 >blade IVO can put you to task getting the works up to the required >300 rpm especially in the seat pulling overhead. Also, if the rope >is too far back or things are in the way when you're pulling that >won't help either. > >My starter rope on my FS II for example was routed a little too far >back to have any hope of starting from the seat. Well, it was a 503 >also which is pretty stiff even with the clutch.... > >LS > >-------- >LS >Titan II SS > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286560#286560 > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >02/15/10 07:35:00 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:04 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase At 12:34 PM 2/15/2010, Bob Kravis wrote: >The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the >plane. He said, >"The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor...I >spoke about >this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think >it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have >plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them... Without seeing the details of the installation I can't pass judgement, but sometimes strengthening the gear legs isn't such a great idea. Often the gear is the mechanical "fuse" in the system... the gear leg bends in a hard landing, whereas a stronger gear leg transfers the force (and the damage) to the much more expensive to repair fuselage. -Dana -- Place a half full glass of water before a pessimist, optimist and an engineer: The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The optimist says the glass if half full. The engineer says the glass is too large. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:22 PM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: Keeping the Firefly part 103 legal When I was trying to decide if I should build a FSII or a Firefly, I asked Dennis Soulder how difficult it was to keep the Firefly part 103 legal. His answer was "keep it stock and don`t put too much paint on it if you want to stay below 254 lbs." When I heard it was that easy to make the Firefly into a fat ultralight, I figured if I was going to be illegal, I may as well build a FSII. I flew the FSII as a fat ultralight until I got my Sport Pilot license. Lanny N598LF ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:02 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase Do you have a url for the gear leg mod on your FF? I have been on the road and missed that one. john hauck mkIII hauck's holler, alabama ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kravis To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane. He said, "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor Mr. Andrew Johnson EAA CH. 492. There has always been some discussion about the whipping action of KOLB gear when landing and he thought that the addition of that part would help with that. I can say that having put the same thing on my FIRESTAR II and having a whole bunch of landings on it I am pretty impressed with his idea. He is a retired BOEING engineer that worked on numerous BOEING airframe designs. I did bend 1 rt side gear leg on my FIRESTAR II by hitting an unseen hole in a field but even then the support leg prevented the gear leg from folding back and I was able to taxi back to the apron. The legs are mounted by MIG welding 4130 steel tabs to the outside of the frame at a location that will transfer any loads to the most tubes and on the axel support bracket. They are readily removable if deemed unneeded. I spoke about this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them. In retrospect, having the same parts installed on my FIRESTAR II, I wish that they would include something like this on their kits. It does do the job for me very nicely and adds very little weight. The only un-removable parts are the 4 small tabs welded to the frame and axel support brackets. Those part might go a couple of ounces but I feel the gain is worth the weight." On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:05 PM, John Hauck wrote: > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of trouble..... LS Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's seat. It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine. I always started my Firestar from outside the aircraft. Everyone else I know did the same thing. With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the most difficult position to pull start. If you think about it, it is push start, not pull start from the seated position. I'm sure you already were aware of this. I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a warm engine. I could not start it cold. I was in fair shape back then. Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight. However, one would have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 legal. john hauck mkIII Woodville, Florida ========== arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:02 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: In flight Adjustable Trim From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Has anyone on the list ever thought of designing something to adjust the horizontal stabilizers like on a cub to trim a Kolb it just makes more se nse to me because it would be a positive trim and not make more drag , the spring system just doesn't work as great as it should for me the air temp s change so much the springs are not consistent enough for me. I rebuilt the elevators on my old firestar a few years ago and built a inf light trim tab into one of the elevators with great results, but that wou ld make more drag than a stabilizer trim system what are your opinions ? The reason I ask, I am working on a electric project to do just this on a Kolb Mk3 it might be a waste of my time but I have to try it anyway than ks for your time and input. Ellery Batchelder Jr. Kolb Mk3C N213, 582 Rotax Garmin AERA -----Original Message----- From: Dana Hague Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 4:52 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase At 12:34 PM 2/15/2010, Bob Kravis wrote: The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane. He said, "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor...I spoke about this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them... "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor...I spoke about this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them... Without seeing the details of the installation I can't pass judgement, but sometimes strengthening the gear legs isn't such a great idea. Often the gear is the mechanical "fuse" in the system... the gear leg bends in a ha rd landing, whereas a stronger gear leg transfers the force (and the damag e) to the much more expensive to repair fuselage. -Dana -- Place a half full glass of water before a pessimist, optimist and an engi neer: The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The optimist says the glass if half full. The engineer says the glass is too large. ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: Ellery Batchelder Jr john This is the link to the firefly with Gear mod http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=407976&ZOOM=b9e91f59 1b3a8e07d790803c287cbe4d Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 8:41 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase Do you have a url for the gear leg mod on your FF? I have been on the road and missed that one. john hauck mkIII hauck's holler, alabama ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kravis Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane. He said, "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor Mr. Andrew Johnson EAA CH. 492. There has always been some discussion about the whipping action of KOLB gear when landing and he thought that the addition of that part would help with that. I can say that having put the same thing on my FIRESTAR II and having a whole bunch of landings on it I am pretty impressed with his idea. He is a retired BOEING engineer that worked on numerous BOEING airframe designs. I did bend 1 rt side gear leg on my FIRESTAR II by hitting an unseen hole in a field but even then the support leg prevented the gear leg from folding back and I was able to taxi back to the apron. The legs are mounted by MIG welding 4130 steel tabs to the outside of the frame at a location that will transfer any loads to the most tubes and on the axel support bracket. They are readily removable if deemed unneeded. I spoke about this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them. In retrospect, having the same parts installed on my FIRESTAR II, I wish that they would include something like this on their kits. It does do the job for me very nicely and adds very little weight. The only un-removable parts are the 4 small tabs welded to the frame and axel support brackets. Those part might go a couple of ounces but I feel the gain is worth the weight." On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:05 PM, John Hauck wrote: > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull thr ough that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of trou ble..... LS Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's seat. It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine. I always started my Firestar from outside the aircraft. Everyone else I know did the same th ing. With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the most difficult position to pull start. If you think about it, it is push start, not pull start from the seated position. I'm sure you already wer e aware of this. I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting a warm engine. I could not start it cold. I was in fair shape back then .. Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight. However, one would have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 10 3 legal. john hauck mkIII Woodville, Florida arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Kolb-List ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:24 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase I do, tho, have a lot of time pull-starting 447's overhead with with the starter rope (on a different plane) - as Thom said, contributing factors on how easy/hard it is are the prop used and how the handle is routed. LS Titan II SS Lucien/Gang: I don't doubt that one bit. However, we are talking about Kolb Aircraft on the Kolb List. My US could not be started unless you were standing beside it. The US would do beautiful hammerhead stalls, but the engine would quit before I could get the nose pointed back down hill. I'd have to shoot a dead stick landing, get out, restart, get back in to take off and try it again. It was a quirk of the Cuyuna. Did not idle with the nose stuck up in a vertical position. When I got my FS flying, it would do beautiful hamerhead stalls, rotate 180 degrees and never complain. Just sit there and idle. Now I didn't need an in air restart capability. One of my dreams was to be able to soar the FS, do an in air restart, climb back up and do it again. Second day I flew my newly built FS I climbed to 3,000 AGL, shut down the engine, glided to 1,500 feet, reached up, restarted with a big smile on my face. That worked so good I climbed up to 6,000 feet AGL, shut down and glided back to 1,500 feet. This time the engine had chilled right down from 50 to 60 mph wind blowing through it. No way I could restart, so I did my first engine out landing in my brand new FS, into a big old hay field. I did have enough sense to do my experiementing over this large hay field. I had engine outs because I failed to turn on my aux tank at two hours flight time with the same FS. On one occassion I got a restart and the other one I ended up on a dirt road in the middle of a swamp somewhere between Perry, FL, and Brandford, FL. That was more than 20 years ago. I wouldn't think of even trying an in air hand restart now. Safest way to go is the electric starter. It can save your bacon if you lose your engine at idle or any other time, especially two strokes, while on short final. It is also much safer to start the engine while seated in the aircraft than standing along side it. Lots of horror stories on aircraft accidents, both UL, Experimental, and GA, from hand starts with no one in the seat. john hauck MKIII hauck's holler, alabama ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:13 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase At 09:11 PM 2/15/2010, John Hauck wrote: >My US could not be started unless you were standing beside it. The US would >do beautiful hammerhead stalls, but the engine would quit before I could get >the nose pointed back down hill. I'd have to shoot a dead stick landing, >get out, restart, get back in to take off and try it again. It was a quirk >of the Cuyuna... How was the cord routed? Mine goes through a pulley mounted under the LH universal joint, and I can start it while sitting in the seat, in flight or on the ground. -Dana -- Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them? ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:32 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase The cord wasn't routed on the 1984 Ultrastar. It came directly out of the recoil starter. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama How was the cord routed? Mine goes through a pulley mounted under the LH universal joint, and I can start it while sitting in the seat, in flight or on the ground. -Dana ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase From: Bob Kravis john, The leg is clearly visible in the pictures on the Barnstormerslisting, you'll have to search for "firefly" and you'll find Hal Mason's blue FF. bk P.S. Wish me luck! On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Hauck wrote: > Do you have a url for the gear leg mod on your FF? > > I have been on the road and missed that one. > > john hauck > mkIII > hauck's holler, alabama > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bob Kravis > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2010 11:34 AM > *Subject:* Re: Kolb-List: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase > > The owner just emailed me with a description of the LG mod on the plane. > He said, > "The extra tube is a modification recommended by my EAA tech councilor Mr. > Andrew > Johnson EAA CH. 492. There has always been some discussion about the > whipping action of KOLB gear when landing and he thought that the > addition of that part would help with that. I can say that having put > the same thing on my FIRESTAR II and having a whole bunch of landings > on it I am pretty impressed with his idea. He is a retired BOEING > engineer that worked on numerous BOEING airframe designs. I did bend 1 > rt side gear leg on my FIRESTAR II by hitting an unseen hole in a field > but even then the support leg prevented the gear leg from folding back > and I was able to taxi back to the apron. The legs are mounted by MIG > welding 4130 steel tabs to the outside of the frame at a location that > will transfer any loads to the most tubes and on the axel support > bracket. They are readily removable if deemed unneeded. I spoke about > this to the KOLB people before doing it and of course they didn't think > it was necessary. Their approach to the issue was to always have > plenty of gear legs on hand for people that bend them. In retrospect, > having the same parts installed on my FIRESTAR II, I wish that they > would include something like this on their kits. It does do the job > for me very nicely and adds very little weight. The only un-removable > parts are the 4 small tabs welded to the frame and axel support > brackets. Those part might go a couple of ounces but I feel the gain is > worth the weight." > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:05 PM, John Hauck wrote: > >> >> >> > With the pull start located overhead, the 447 is easy enough to pull >> through that you could probably start it up in the seat without a lot of >> trouble..... >> >>> >>> LS >>> >> >> >> Obviously you have not tried starting a 447 powered Kolb from the pilot's >> seat. >> >> It is very difficult to do with a warmed up engine. I always started my >> Firestar from outside the aircraft. Everyone else I know did the same >> thing. >> >> With the pull start located over the right shoulder, it is located in the >> most difficult position to pull start. If you think about it, it is push >> start, not pull start from the seated position. I'm sure you already were >> aware of this. >> >> I was 47 years old when I built my Firestar and I had a hard time starting >> a warm engine. I could not start it cold. I was in fair shape back then. >> >> Kolb advertised the Fire Fly as a Part 103 ultralight. However, one would >> have to be extremely careful, do without brakes, and more, to be truly 103 >> legal. >> >> john hauck >> mkIII >> Woodville, Florida >> >> ========== >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.