---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/19/10: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:47 AM - Re: Re: air restart... () 2. 03:45 AM - Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (icrashrc) 3. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (John Hauck) 4. 06:30 AM - Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (lucien) 5. 06:36 AM - Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (lucien) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (jerb) 7. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (jerb) 8. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (jerb) 9. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (b young) 10. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (robert bean) 11. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (John Hauck) 12. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (John Hauck) 13. 08:59 AM - Alternitive Kolb Engines (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 14. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (b young) 15. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (John Hauck) 16. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (russ kinne) 17. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (John Hauck) 18. 01:48 PM - Center control stick mod (Mike Welch) 19. 03:05 PM - Re: Center control stick mod (b young) 20. 03:50 PM - Re: Center control stick mod (Mike Welch) 21. 08:52 PM - Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines (ces308) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:00 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: air restart... You might consider a pull handle for each hand. On my Mitchell B-10, I ran the starter rope through a forward mounted pulley. Then, put a handle on the end and one before the pulley. When you pulled with both hands, it was very powerful and made air starts easy. Vic ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:05 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim From: "icrashrc" That actuator has 2" of travel and normally moves at 1/2" per second at full load. It's rated for 150 lbs of force while moving, 300 lbs. holding. It can be slowed down to about 10 seconds for full travel if needed. I have a off the shelf 3 position driver that will be set for the same 3 positions you could get with the stock handle. I may build or buy a infinite adjustable driver in the future but i wanted to start with the 3 known flap positions. John Hauck wrote: > You mean like this? > > http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/electric_flap_drive.htm > > > Scott > > > > Scott/Gang: > > How fast is the actuator through full travel? > > The MKIII doesn't like to climb with full or half flaps. Climbs much better > clean. > > I like the almost instantaneous capability of going from full flaps in > landing configuration to climbing out clean in a go around situation. > > Infinite adjustment of flap angle might be fun to play with in the air. > > Global warming is ruining my flying. My airplane needs to be washed when > the ice in the bucket and the hose thaws. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama -------- Scott www.ill-EagleAviation.com do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287141#287141 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:09 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim That actuator has 2" of travel -------- Scott Scott/Gang: Is there a provision for the actuator to return to the zero degree position (flaps clean) should the system malfunction? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim From: "lucien" John Hauck wrote: > > Scott/Gang: > > Is there a provision for the actuator to return to the zero degree position > (flaps clean) should the system malfunction? > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama FWIW, if it's like mine and it looks like it is, it's stuck where it is if the actuator fails or otherwise goes offline. For that reason, I don't dump full flaps until I have the landing spot made or otherwise don't go into a configuration that I can't recover from if it's likely I'd have to (training from the C150 days). Wish I had manual flaps too. Tho if I go Kolb again my model won't have em.... LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287168#287168 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:21 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim From: "lucien" icrashrc wrote: > That actuator has 2" of travel and normally moves at 1/2" per second at full load. It's rated for 150 lbs of force while moving, 300 lbs. holding. It can be slowed down to about 10 seconds for full travel if needed. I have a off the shelf 3 position driver that will be set for the same 3 positions you could get with the stock handle. I may build or buy a infinite adjustable driver in the future but i wanted to start with the 3 known flap positions. > BTW, that is just darn cool. My compliments to your engineering, looks very well done.... Do not archive LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287169#287169 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:12 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? Hey guys, we know about Rotax's - I want small - light would be nice 4-stroke engine. The HKS is too pricey, even the small Rotax's are becoming over priced. What I'm looking for is experience reports from any folks running the Valley Engineering Big Twin. (The Big Twin is a customized Genac engine with a reduction drive added, not a half VW. I've flown behind a Global version of the half VW, don't care to repeat that experience again. I know there are couple Kolb running this engine but not much feedback as to their experience especially if compared to Rotax on that same type of plane. I don't expect the Big Twin to have the performance of a 503, or 477 for that matter but with the redrive it should out perform a half VW solution. I know the Stark's are running one on a Kolb, but I'm looking for some other honest evaluation from those actually running the engine. My application isn't for a Kolb, it is for a ThunderGull. So if you running one or know of or have directly observed one in operation, I would like to hear what your experience is with the engine. Thanks, jerb At 07:06 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote: > > >elleryweld(at)aol.com wrote: > > I put over 900 Hours on a 447 Rotax single ignition in my old > firestar without a problem nice little engine in my book easy on > fuel plenty of power for a heavy firestar I thought,and I could out > climb any thing at any airport and I could stay with a bunch of > friends GA planes and go bye a few of them with it. > > the 503 another good engine plenty of power some people > really think they need it because it has dual ignition compared to > the 447 I have flown with the 503 a lot less hours but plenty of > friends have them that I fly with and I can only say they have had > ignition problems more than I have on much newer engines > > just my experience > > > > >The only engine-out I've ever had flying a 2-stroke was with the 447 >and it was an ignition "problem". I put quotes around that because >the fault wasn't with the engine, it was a wiring problem of mine >that I introduced when I installed it on the plane. > >But you do indeed have one and only one ignition system on the engine. > >I did and do feel a little more comfortable with the 503 as a >result, but I'll still happily fly a 447 too just keeping the lack >of redundancy in the ignition in mind. > >The 447 is the longest-lasting engine in the 2-stroke line followed >closely by the 503. The only other drag about the 447 is it tends to >run hotter especially at higher power settings. It's basically a >suped-up 377 with a much better provision 8 crankcase and bottom >end, so the cooling isn't quite as good as on the 503. > >I think Steve Beatty has something approaching 1400 hours on a 447 >and it's still going. In the field, there's lots of guys with over >500 hours and getting near 1000 with the 447. > >IMO, the 447 and 503 are aviation's best kept secrets in the 40 and >50hp range. Lots of folks are out paying 10 grand for 4-strokes >because they're afraid of the 2-strokes for some reason. But us guys >who've spent a lot of time in front of/underneath the air-cooled >rotaxen enjoy the higher bang/buck ratio they offer ;). > >LS > >-------- >LS >Titan II SS > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286934#286934 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:24 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? At 11:03 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote: >Herb, > > I think the biggest application of the Generac is as a > generator. But, that aside, you're probably correct regarding > their use in aircraft. > > You know what would be nice???? A spreadsheet that list ALL > engines in a certain power range....say 40-55 HP. Rotaxes, > Generacs, half VW, Victor, Cuyuna, Victor, etc., etc. etc. All of 'em!! > Then, try to list their atributes, like TBO, cost per hour, > maintenence interval, GPH, rebuild costs, number of hours of proven use, etc. > > This would be a big list, but it would make for interesting > reading. You could also cover different engines in the 60-80 HP > range, and finally, the 80-100 HP range. > >Mike Welch > >Reply to above: Interesting but the problem as I see it is I don't feel there is enough quantifiable information on a population of each type of engine out side of the Rotax's to produce a creditable rating. In effect, you're just reproducing Kit Planes engine directory. jerb ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:35 AM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? Excellent feedback and appears excellent folks there at Valley Engineering. Always liked those folks. Think of this as early days of the Rotax - adapting the snow mobile engine to aircraft use. Teething..... Jimmy, do you think you may have been over propping the engine not allowing it to generate the RPM it needed to produce the HP - best to prop to be in the highest torque area. jerryb At 11:51 AM 2/18/2010, you wrote: > >List, > >I did a few in-detail posts of my experience with the Valley-Generac >Twin V, they should all be in the archives. > >To clarify a few comments made today, > >1) Valley Engineering does not cut down the flywheel in any way on >their version. > >2) They (Valley Eng.) do suggest to mount the engine direct to the >airframe. My opinion is, not a good idea. Even though it's a fairly >smooth engine, it's not smooth enough to do that, at least it wasn't for me. > >3) I tried 4 different props. A 3-blade 72" IVO, 2 blade Culver 76" >39 degree pitch, a 2-blade 76" Culver 41 degree, and a 2-blade 78" >Culver, either 41 or 39 degree, can't remember. There were subtle >differences between each, nothing substantial. I got a little better >cruise speed with the 76" 39 degree over all the others, but cruise >speed was not the problem I was trying to overcome, it was lack of >adequate climb rate, and none of them solved that. > >4) Yes, today I am broke, own an HKS, and am very happy with it. > >I also had a bit of a rum-rum harmonic issue going on as well with >the Twin V, and Larry Smith at Valley told me they had that problem >solved with a different redrive ratio. Also, the last time I spoke >with Larry they were trying out a different cam grind to get more >power out of the Twin V, and at that time they had given up on the turbo ideas. > >They are very good folks at Valley Eng., even took my engine back at >a fair discount. They worked hard with me to try and make the engine >perform to my satisfaction. Bottom line was, the Twin-V was not >enough power for my application. > >-------- >Jimmy Young >Missouri City, TX >Kolb FS II/HKS 700 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287004#287004 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:22 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim John Instead of mounting the actuator fixed on the root tube, mount it on a slide, reverse the direction of the flap handle movement. So if the actuator gets stuck, you can pull the flap handle to go to a clean config. Or kiss Boyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott/Gang: Is there a provision for the actuator to return to the zero degree position (flaps clean) should the system malfunction? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim From: robert bean Personally I like the feeling of feedback pressure when I pull down on the flap handle. It's also good to be able to release it smoothly at your discretion during climbout. At first there was a little groping for the handle, located above my right shoulder, but soon the location became automatic. Fortunately I don't have any joint pain in that action. It feels the same as the way I slow my old driveway snowplow (no brakes), lower the blade. BB On 19, Feb 2010, at 11:22 AM, b young wrote: > > John > > Instead of mounting the actuator fixed on the root tube, mount it on a > slide, reverse the direction of the flap handle movement. So if the > actuator gets stuck, you can pull the flap handle to go to a clean config. > > Or kiss > > Boyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Scott/Gang: > > Is there a provision for the actuator to return to the zero degree position > (flaps clean) should the system malfunction? > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:29 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim Instead of mounting the actuator fixed on the root tube, mount it on a slide, reverse the direction of the flap handle movement. So if the actuator gets stuck, you can pull the flap handle to go to a clean config. Or kiss Boyd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boyd Y/Gang: The MKIII standard flap actuation system works well for me in my airplane, primarily because I fly right seat, stick in right hand, left hand on throttle or flap handle when necessary. It is a little more difficult to pull flaps when flying left seat in a single center mounted stick MKIII because I have to twist to the right to hold the control stick, then pull the flap handle. The electric actuator would be a plus for pilots that have difficulty pulling the handle because of age and/or lack of physical ability to pull it. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:03 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim It feels the same as the way I slow my old driveway snowplow (no brakes), lower the blade. BB I had forgotten about the air brake action of the flaps on the MKIII. When I first started flying the MKIII the amount of drag induced by flap deployment was readily noticeable. Seemed like it would throw me into the harness. Now, I am not aware of that deceleration, but I know it is still there. Really helps me to lose altitude without gaining excessive airspeed when I need it. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:24 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Alternitive Kolb Engines Mike/All That would be interesting to have a engine spread sheet but many would be unsuitable for our Kolb use. Generally speaking auto engines are too heavy and powerful for Kolb use. Generator engines (Genrec and Onan) would seem to fit as options because they are designed to run under heavy load but are normally a bit heavy for the power they produce. I really like the concept of the Yamaha that Jason is working with. After all Rotax originally modified snowmobile engines for aircraft use. The biggest problem would be a supply issue for wide spread usage. Not just engines but redrives also. Rotax doesn't like people using their redrive on other engines. The R series BMW is another engine that shows promise. I concur with Jason that there is a bunch of work in converting engines to aircraft use especially if you are the first. New VW engines are available in unlimited quantities at very reasonable prices for Kolb usage. Parts for maintenance are also very inexpensive and available for the foreseeable future. The VW redrives are also available and continue to evolve. Granted a gear redrive would seem to be better and maybe a suitable one will be developed if there is enough demand. For the time being the Valley belt redrive is a good solution. One of the advantages of a VW conversion is that Great Planes will put together a fairly complete engine package and Valley will even build a complete "firewall forward" that you can test fly at their factory. To my knowledge no one makes a off the shelf exhaust systems but Larry Smith at Valley promised me they would offer them if there was demand. Also Kolb will build VW engine mounts on your new Kolb or weld on mounts for your existing Kolb. There are two more VW powered Kolb MKIIIs getting close to flying. The VW experiment is getting more refined so the effort for the next builders will be greatly reduced. I will be flying my VW powered Kolb MKIIIC to Sun-N-Fun this year and camping with it all week Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:03 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? Herb, I think the biggest application of the Generac is as a generator. But, that aside, you're probably correct regarding their use in aircraft. You know what would be nice???? A spreadsheet that list ALL engines in a certain power range....say 40-55 HP. Rotaxes, Generacs, half VW, Victor, Cuyuna, Victor, etc., etc. etc. All of 'em!! Then, try to list their atributes, like TBO, cost per hour, maintenence interval, GPH, rebuild costs, number of hours of proven use, etc. This would be a big list, but it would make for interesting reading. You could also cover different engines in the 60-80 HP range, and finally, the 80-100 HP range. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:53 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim It is a little more difficult to pull flaps when flying left seat in a single center mounted stick MKIII because I have to twist to the right to hold the control stick, then pull the flap handle. john hauck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is part of the reason I installed an inverted L on the center stick, it can be reached very easily with the left hand, for flying,(give my right arm a rest), making adjustments to throttle flaps etc. I am sure it is not as convenient as dual controls, but it was much easier and quicker to build. Boyd Young MKIII ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:33 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim I am sure it is not as convenient as dual controls, but it was much easier and quicker to build. Boyd Young Boyd Y/Gang: If Brother Jim had not designed and built my dual controls (the first for a MKIII) in 1991, I'd being flying with a single center mounted stick. I transitioned into the Factory MKIII with a center mounted single stick. I'd also be flying left seat, instead of right. john hauck titus, alabama MKIII ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:09 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim John Interesting thread about the use of Kolb flaps. Do you normally deploy flaps going into your strip? Full flaps? Russ K do not archive On Feb 19, 2010, at 11:50 AM, John Hauck wrote: > > > It feels the same as the way I slow my old driveway snowplow (no > brakes), > lower the blade. > BB > > > I had forgotten about the air brake action of the flaps on the MKIII. > > When I first started flying the MKIII the amount of drag induced by > flap > deployment was readily noticeable. Seemed like it would throw me > into the > harness. > > Now, I am not aware of that deceleration, but I know it is still > there. > Really helps me to lose altitude without gaining excessive airspeed > when I > need it. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:29 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim Do you normally deploy flaps going into your strip? Full flaps? Russ K Russ K/Gang: The only time I do not use full flaps is when the wind is mixed up and strong, especially a cross wind. I am referring to winds most folks don't normally fly Kolbs. To stay current in my airplane I occassionally shoot clean approaches. There is a considerable change in glide and also an attitude change between clean and full flaps in the MKIII. Unlike some on the Kolb List, I do not have a problem with flaps and MKIII's. The MKIII does not instantly quit flying with our without flaps, unless the pilot quits flying the aircraft. It may not float like an Aeronca Champ, but the pilot should fly the MKIII according to the MKIII's glide characteristics. Unless pilot input dictates, the MKIII performs nicely through a full flare to a three point landing. The standard MKIII will usually hit tailwheel first, but the pilot can also control the attitude of the MKIII to prevent this maneuver from becoming exagerated. With the different main gear and true three point stance of my MKIII, I still occassionally overcompensate and hit tailwheel first. My MKIII does not complain when I get overly aggressive. Sometimes it is necessary to get my MKIII on the ground now to get the brakes working. People who do not and will not use full flaps on the MKIII have never learned to fly the airplane. They have mastered only part of this fine little airplane's capabilities. Not that difficult to set the MKIII landing up, clean or full flaps, to land to a point you pick on the ground, just like shooting an approach in a helicopter. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:21 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: Center control stick mod Boyd=2C I am interested in your center control stick attachment. I've decided to stay with the stock MkIII center control stick=2C but I do see a value in having occational left hand control (like for flap controls). For me to pull the flap handle=2C I'd need some way to fly with my left h and=2C briefly. Could you post a photo or two of your handle mod=2C Boyd. Thanks=2C Mike Welch BTW=2C I'm in the process of remounting my main wings. (just got them hung in place) The tailfeathers were mounted a few days ago. This is the firs t time I've ever had the plane "look" so close to being a real airplane. I 've had the MkIII wings mounted before=2C but in skeleton form....no fabric or paint. Plus=2C the wings were drilled and mounted for an aluminum legg ed MkIII Classic. I should be able to finish drilling and installing the front mounting pin s tomorrow. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:38 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Center control stick mod Boyd, I am interested in your center control stick attachment. I've decided to stay with the stock MkIII center control stick, but I do see a value in having occasional left hand control (like for flap controls). For me to pull the flap handle, I'd need some way to fly with my left hand, briefly. Could you post a photo or two of your handle mod, Boyd. Thanks, Mike Welch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will take pictures if I remember to take the camera. But in the short term this may help, by removing 2 screws it returns back to stock, minus the 2 holes. The curve made it fit the left hand better, if you make it too long to the left it just seemed to get in the way. I covered the part with the screws with a foam type handlebar grip, and the extinction to the left with a high density grip. (came with the kit) I can fly with either hand, but if the air gets real bumpy seems like I go back to the right hand. I have taken off with the left arm, but all my landings has been with my right. Just more comfortable that way I guess. The left arm cross over is way easier when pulling the flaps. Boyd Young mkIII ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:04 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Center control stick mod Thanks=2C Boyd. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Alternitive Kolb Engines From: "ces308" Hello gang....FWIW....I have 99. 2 hrs of absolutely trouble free hrs on my A-2200 Jabiru engine...I get 1000-1100 fpm climb on my M3X...it is smooth as silk...3-4 gph fuel burn...and basically maintenance free...I change oil and filter every 25 hrs and other that the the first few required adjustments at the beginning,that has been it. No monkey business mounting it or re-drives...just put it on and prop it... Just my 2 cents worth...Hope to see some of you guys this summer ! chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru A-2200 99.2 + hrs N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287315#287315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.