Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Flap actuator (icrashrc)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (Thom Riddle)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 (lucien)
4. 06:36 AM - Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
6. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
7. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 (John Hauck)
8. 06:50 AM - Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (lucien)
9. 06:59 AM - Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (lucien)
10. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim (John Hauck)
11. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (John Hauck)
12. 07:41 AM - Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (lucien)
13. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (John Hauck)
14. 08:06 AM - Matco brake fluid specs (Watkinsdw)
15. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (Brett Janaway)
16. 08:16 AM - Fuel tanks (Brett Janaway)
17. 08:21 AM - Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (lucien)
18. 08:28 AM - Re: Matco brake fluid specs (John Hauck)
19. 08:47 AM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (Larry Cottrell)
20. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (John Hauck)
21. 08:57 AM - Re: Matco brake fluid specs (Watkinsdw)
22. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (b young)
23. 09:02 AM - Re: Matco brake fluid specs (b young)
24. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 (b young)
25. 09:06 AM - Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (lucien)
26. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (John Hauck)
27. 09:33 AM - Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (Thom Riddle)
28. 09:47 AM - Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (Thom Riddle)
29. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (b young)
30. 09:53 AM - Re: Matco brake fluid specs (John Hauck)
31. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Matco brake fluid specs (John Hauck)
32. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 (John Hauck)
33. 11:00 AM - Monument Valley 2010 (John Hauck)
34. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (Herb)
35. 01:54 PM - Re: Matco brake fluid specs (Watkinsdw)
36. 03:39 PM - Re: Monument Valley 2010 (Jimmy Young)
37. 04:10 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2010 (Larry Cottrell)
38. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Monument Valley 2010 (Larry Cottrell)
39. 04:55 PM - Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (Dana Hague)
40. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (Dana Hague)
41. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? (Dana Hague)
42. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (John Hauck)
43. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor (Dana Hague)
44. 06:28 PM - Re: Monument Valley 2010 (TheWanderingWench)
45. 07:14 PM - Re: Monument Valley 2010 (Kirkds)
Message 1
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I started a new topic to help avoid thread drift elsewhere.
http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/electric_flap_drive.htm
Here's answers to a few questions that have been asked on the list and BC.
If the actuator quit responding the flaps would be stuck where they stopped. If
this were to happen away from home it would be easy enough to move the flaps
manually to the raised position but you would have to land to do so. Todays actuators
are very robust with a MTBF cycle life so high John H. probably couldn't
even wear one out.
I got the actuator itself from
http://www.firgelliauto.com
We chose the speed and power of the actuator after researching what other planes
were using. Probably the closest example was a retrofit system for a Challenger.
It used a 80lb force actuator. Ours is 150lb. Calculated needed force is
62.5 lb for the M3X @ 85 mph.
The positioning system Im using at the moment is from
http://www.speedwaymotors.com
It would be possible to used a single momentary on-off-on switch to control the
actuator and have infinite positions of the flaps.
The position sensor is a in house design and will light one of three LEDs when
the actuator position called for is reached. This is still only in schematic form
right now. I guess I better get busy
Glad you liked the mounting bracket. It could have been made out of aluminum in
15 minutes but working with Carbon is such fun.
Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287447#287447
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? |
The early FS w/ 377 I once owned, had plenty of climb performance.
One way to guestimate the actual horsepower being delivered from a 4-stroke engine
is by knowing the actual fuel consumption rate of the engine under power.
Most 4-stroke engines burn in the range of .42 - .48 pounds of gasoline per hour
per horsepower (BSFC). Only the most efficient, usually with computer controlled
fuel injection get to the low end of this range. There might be some examples
that get better than this but I've never seen one.
So using these numbers and the actual fuel consumption one can easily come close
to the actual HP being produced by the engine. Jimmy once told me that he got
on average he got about 2 gph fuel burn rate in the Big Twin when running at
around 3400 rpm. Using the thirstiest BSFC of .48 we get only 25 HP being produced
at a 2 gph burn rate. At .42 BSFC, it comes to ~28.5 HP. Looks to me like
Valley-Engineering and/or Generac have over claimed the engine's HP by a lot.
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought.
- Simon Cameron
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287448#287448
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 |
[quote="bob.kravis(at)gmail.com"]Seeking instructions for storage (more than a
month). I saw the Rotax manual's brief description, drain fuel system, squirt
oil into carb and through plug holes. Can you share any experience? I read an
old post from a guy who shot the fogging oil tube into his crankcase, LOL. Bob
> [b]
My theory (backed up by most mechanics I've talked to also) is that you only want
to put in the engine fluids that normally go into it and nothing else.
So, for storage, the best oil to use is just your regular old 2-stroke oil. I always
had good results just using that. You'll need to use enough to really coat
the innards which usually means a little more than just a teaspoon through
the spark plug holes.
Course, when you take it out of storage you'll have a fair bit of oil to drain
which can be a bit of a mess ;). Then of course you'll want to seal up all the
openings as well....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287451#287451
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 |
I dont know much about long time storing I usually fly as much as I can
year round
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 12:44 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Recommendations for Storing a 447
Seeking instructions for storage (more than a month). I saw the Rotax man
ual's brief description, drain fuel system, squirt oil into carb and throu
gh plug holes. Can you share any experience? I read an old post from a
guy who shot the fogging oil tube into his crankcase, LOL.
Bob
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| Subject: | Re: In flight Adjustable Trim |
I purchased one of them a while ago and built it into my panel I wasn't ha
ppy with it , it is two slow moving & not enough travel you could never la
nd with it if you ever had an elevator cable break unless you had a two mi
le runway and 800 mile aproach , so I built a new panel and am working on
another set up
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: joepilot503 <joepilot503@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 2:23 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
I installed in flight trim wheel from Rans, works great. here is a photo.
rian.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287444#287444
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0016_108.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: In flight Adjustable Trim |
anyone need a trim wheel setup like Brian's that fits a Rans I have one
to get rid of it works good but not to my satisfaction
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: joepilot503 <joepilot503@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 2:23 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: In flight Adjustable Trim
I installed in flight trim wheel from Rans, works great. here is a photo.
rian.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287444#287444
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0016_108.jpg
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 |
My theory (backed up by most mechanics I've talked to also) is that you
only want to put in the engine fluids that normally go into it and nothing
else.
LS
Gents and Ladies:
Recommend following instructions in the operators manual for engine storage:
http://www.rotaxflyingclub.com/technical_information/rotaxdocuments.htm
All manuals for all Rotax engines, still in service, can be accessed on
line.
The most critical components of the two stroke engines are crank bearings,
in my opinion. A spot of rust on one ball is enough to start a catastrophic
crankshaft failure. Next would be piston rings, and anything made of steel
or iron.
Carb float bowls are also important areas to prepare for storage.
When I don't fly frequently, I fill my tank with 100LL. Has long storage
life. Cost about the same as a jug of Stabil.
The operators manual gives you a complete check list on what and how to do
it.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: In flight Adjustable Trim |
elleryweld(at)aol.com wrote:
> I purchased one of them a while ago and built it into my panel I wasn't happy
with it , it is two slow moving & not enough travel you could never land with
it if you ever had an elevator cable break unless you had a two mile runway and
800 mile aproach , so I built a new panel and am working on another set up
>
> Ellery Batchelder Jr.
>
>
>
> --
Speaking of that, what are the elevator stick forces like in the Mark III? I remember
on my FS II the controls were so light I'd just hold the stick to keep
a desired trim. Even on an xcountry I hardly even noticed it lol.
But seriously yeah I did occasionally want a trim system anyway as my FS II wanted
to fly around 70mph hands-off which was a little hotter than I liked for the
engine....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287460#287460
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
[quote="bob.kravis(at)gmail.com"]The new FF has a GRT 2002 EIS with altitude sensor. Hal said it is sweet. I looked at Grand Rapids website and saw that they offer a fuel pressure sensor. As I have read in the postings, many of the engine outs are due to fuel starvation. There is a testimonial on their website (see Flying Impressions (http://www.grtavionics.com/blog.aspx)) about an RV owner who turned back when he got a low fuel pressure warning after takeoff. That got me thinking about adding one. What does the group think about that idea? Bob
> [b]
Most of those cautions are probably just warnings against running out of gas....
;)
Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the Rotax
2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a pulse line.
This is so treacherous because the mistake is so easy and non-intuitive to
make. I.e. mounting the fuel pump a long ways from the engine looks pretty but
leads to this problem. The line has to be a foot or less in length to properly
drive the pump and preferably as short as possible.
No idea on the fuel pressure sensor as I've never used one. But the EIS you'll
love (I had one on my 503-equipped FS II)....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287461#287461
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| Subject: | Re: In flight Adjustable Trim |
Speaking of that, what are the elevator stick forces like in the Mark III?
I remember on my FS II the controls were so light I'd just hold the stick to
keep a desired trim. Even on an xcountry I hardly even noticed it lol.
But seriously yeah I did occasionally want a trim system anyway as my FS II
wanted to fly around 70mph hands-off which was a little hotter than I liked
for the engine....
LS
Folks:
Stick forces in a MKIII depend on a lot of variables:
-Airspeed.
-Load.
-One or two up.
When the MKIII is trimmed correctly, the fore and aft control stick forces
are light, as with all the other Kolb models. To increase sensitivity,
reliability, and make elevator control input more precise, I installed 1/8"
up elevator control cable when I built my mkIII in 1991. At the time, I did
not realize how much the 3/32" stretched when flying, especially with a
passenger. Many years later, while flying the initial tests on the newest
Kolb MKIIIx, I discovered up elevator control cable stretch once again. We
changed up to an 1/8" elevator cable and the problem with excessive up
elevator control stick travel went away. There is a lot of load on the up
elevator cable with pilot only, which goes up quite a bit more when we add a
passenger.
Untrimmed stick forces qickly become quite evident during cross country
flight. One's hand and arm will tell you, plus difficulty maintaining a
constant heading and/or altitude. Local flying, one normally will not pick
up on slight untrimmed stick forces.
If one is flying "a little hotter than I liked for the engine..." I'd reduce
power.
Any kind of cross country with untrimmed stick pressure would be very
difficult, uncomfortable, and unenjoyable.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the
Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a
pulse line. This is so treacherous because the mistake is so easy and
non-intuitive to make. I.e. mounting the fuel pump a long ways from the
engine looks pretty but leads to this problem. The line has to be a foot or
less in length to properly drive the pump and preferably as short as
possible.
LS
Folks:
We don't have a problem with excessive length of Mikuni fuel pump pulse
lines on Kolb aircraft unless the builder makes drastic changes in
recommended fuel pump location during engine installation. Normally, there
is no reason to change locations. Most Kolb builders try to build as
cheaply as possibly. Short fuel and pulse lines appeals to those of us that
have built Kolbs.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> We don't have a problem with excessive length of Mikuni fuel pump pulse
> lines on Kolb aircraft unless the builder makes drastic changes in
> recommended fuel pump location during engine installation. Normally, there
> is no reason to change locations. Most Kolb builders try to build as
> cheaply as possibly. Short fuel and pulse lines appeals to those of us that
> have built Kolbs.
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Regardless, if the OP needs to know what that length limitation is on the pulse
line, i.e. how to recognize an installation where this mistake _has_ been made,
it's about a foot maximum.
You can verify this with any Rotax dealer or mechanic, or anyone who's familiar
with 2-stroke installations using the pneumatic pump.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287472#287472
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
Regardless, if the OP needs to know what that length limitation is on the
pulse line, i.e. how to recognize an installation where this mistake _has_
been made, it's about a foot maximum.
You can verify this with any Rotax dealer or mechanic, or anyone who's
familiar with 2-stroke installations using the pneumatic pump.
LS
Lucien/Folks:
I don't need to verify the specs. I read the book and have been building
and flying Kolbs for 26 years.
Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot.
I like to rely on the operators manual for that particular engine and the
other publications that are readily available on line from Rotax for free.
In the beginning, we had only the operators manual that came with the
engine. Information from Rotax was nil. Most of what we learned we learned
from failures and by mistakes. I met Gerry Olenik in 1986. He was a
tremendous source of info for me and two stroke Rotax engines back then and
now. Homer, in 1987, would not sell me a 447 with my FS kit because he felt
the engine was too much for the FS. The 447 was the engine that powered the
Twinstar two place. I got my engine from Homer, called Gerry and horse
traded for a new 447. Times change. Three years later Homer agreed to buy
me a 503 to power my FS for a true circumnavigation of the Continental US.
The year, 1990, that I had planned the flight was the year I pulled the
wings off my FS powered with the 447. Glad I never had a chance to fly the
original FS with a 503. Although Homer changed his mind about max power on
the FS for me, I think he got that one wrong. However, his decision to give
me the 503 was an individual decision for me and not intended for the
remaining original FS fleet.
Flown in the normal category, a 503 powered original FS would have lasted as
long as a 377 powered FS. I would never have flown it like a little old
lady. With that extra power, I would have enjoyed every one of those Rotax
ponies.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Matco brake fluid specs |
Hi, Folks,
I have a quick question. For the first time, we're going to need to bleed our brakes.
What kind of fluid does a Matco system require?
Thanks,
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287477#287477
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
Hi
I'm new to this list but I see it is fairly active.
I'm a Kolb Twinstar III Classic owner. UK registered, but based in
Slovenia most of the time. (G-MYIK)
I'm looking to source two replacement fuel tanks. I currently have the
20 litre tanks fitted, but want to increase the size to 25 litre tanks
(sorry to quote European standards, but if I quoted gallons we'd get all
confused between US and Imperial gallons). Does anyone know a stockist?
Preferably in Europe, but in the States otherwise and I can get them
shipped over. Dimensions are 250mm x 250mm for width and depth.
I've tried the UK importer but several emails and a couple of
conversations have resulted in no help. They don't seem to be very good
with backup. The manufacturer has also not replied to past emails. Doh.
Shame really because the aircraft it great. It's just support that seems
to be lacking whenever I need it!
Regards
Brett
www.xTc-Paragliding.com
Message 16
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Oooops. Sorry for not putting the correct title in the last email.....
Regards
Brett
www.xTc-Paragliding.com
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Lucien/Folks:
>
> I don't need to verify the specs. I read the book and have been building
> and flying Kolbs for 26 years.
>
> Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot.
>
>
Actually, it sounds like you probably do need to verify this specification. I'm
talking about _maximum_ pulse line lengths, not minimum. The shorter the better
on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_ length is a critical safety
issue. Not everyone who's built a Kolb followed the directions and being able
recognize an improper installation is crucial for safety.
Putting it another way, it doesn't matter, ultimately, if the manufacturer directed
this or that particular installation of the fuel pump. The critical issue
is whether the builder _actually did_ follow those directions and obeyed the
pulse line length limitations or not.
An owner-op needs to know what that limitation is in order to be prepared for that
contingency.
To verify, I'd suggest Ronnie Smith and/or Mark Smith (at Tri-State Kite sales)
as the two best sources in the field for this information (and I can personally
vouch for the length limit myself).
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287484#287484
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| Subject: | Re: Matco brake fluid specs |
I have a quick question. For the first time, we're going to need to bleed
our brakes. What kind of fluid does a Matco system require?
Thanks,
Dave
Dave/Gang:
I have gotten perfect service from Walmart ATF on several sets of MATCO
brakes and the original master cylinders installed 1991.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
> Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot.
>
>
Actually, it sounds like you probably do need to verify this
specification. I'm talking about _maximum_ pulse line lengths, not
minimum. The shorter the better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying
the _max_ length is a critical safety issue. Not everyone who's built a
Kolb followed the directions and being able recognize an improper
installation is crucial for safety.
Putting it another way, it doesn't matter, ultimately, if the
manufacturer directed this or that particular installation of the fuel
pump. The critical issue is whether the builder _actually did_ follow
those directions and obeyed the pulse line length limitations or not.
An owner-op needs to know what that limitation is in order to be
prepared for that contingency.
To verify, I'd suggest Ronnie Smith and/or Mark Smith (at Tri-State Kite
sales) as the two best sources in the field for this information (and I
can personally vouch for the length limit myself).
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
WTF are you talking about? I have read the above at least twice and
don't understand the argument, or the reason for one. To the best of my
recollection every instruction I have ever seen say to keep the pulse
line under one foot. I have never heard anyone recommend putting your
pulse pump any where but as close to the engine as possible. "The
shorter the better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_
length is a critical safety issue. " ????????????????? I like to have
the last word as much as anyone, but it means much more if it is
actually correct.
Still cranky!
Larry
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Lucien/Folks:
>
> I don't need to verify the specs. I read the book and have been building
> and flying Kolbs for 26 years.
>
> Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot.
Actually, it sounds like you probably do need to verify this specification.
I'm talking about _maximum_ pulse line lengths, not minimum. The shorter the
better on the pulse line indeed, but obeying the _max_ length is a critical
safety issue. Not everyone who's built a Kolb followed the directions and
being able recognize an improper installation is crucial for safety.
To verify, I'd suggest Ronnie Smith and/or Mark Smith (at Tri-State Kite
sales) as the two best sources in the field for this information (and I can
personally vouch for the length limit myself).
LS
Lucien/Gang:
I thought I explained that in this sentence:
> Most of us builders get by with much less pulse tubing than one foot.
To me, that means we use less than the maximum recommended of 12" or 1'.
Must have missed something somewhere.
I repeat. I do not doubt your word about the maximum length of the Mikuni
fuel pump pulse line of 12".
Nor do I need to verify with Ronnie Smith, who is a close friend, or Mark
Smith who I do not know.
I am no disputing the length of the pulse line.
Sorry about that.
Decided to take a look at the Rotax Two Stroke Installation Manual before I
fired this response back to the Kolb List.
Sure enough, on page 15-1, it states the maxium length of the pulse line is
20". I made a mistake. Pays to look in the book, even though I have always
cut my pulse lines much shorter than 20".
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Matco brake fluid specs |
Thanks, John.
Would we have to flush out the brake fluid that's in the system, or are they compatible?
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? |
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp
--------
Thom Riddle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at
best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Lets say 53.57 for the average.
Add 7000 ft of altitude with a loss of 4.25 % per thousand. For a loss of
29.75 %. leaving at altitude 37.63 hp at cruse. Don't sound right. Or
is the 4.25 % per thousand wrong? I have had my mkIII912 to 13,000 and
using the same numbers the loss is 55.25% leaving only 29.6 hp are these
numbers essentially correct or am I missing something?
Boyd Young MkIII
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| Subject: | Matco brake fluid specs |
Hi, Folks,
I have a quick question. For the first time, we're going to need to bleed
our brakes. What kind of fluid does a Matco system require?
Thanks,
Dave
Matco's paperwork says " this assembly requires mil-h-5606 red aircraft
fluid"
Boyd Young Mkiii
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 |
[quote="bob.kravis(at)gmail.com"]Seeking instructions for storage (more than
a month). I saw the Rotax manual's brief description, drain fuel system,
squirt oil into carb and through plug holes. Can you share any
experience? I read an old post from a guy who shot the fogging oil tube
into his crankcase, LOL. Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
How much more than a month? 40 days, I dont know if I would do
anything, 6 to 12 months more than a month. Fogging oil would be good.
If you can keep the tube out of the crankcase. I would use fuel stabilizer
and run things dry while injecting the fogging oil. The fogging oil will
coat all the innards to keep the rust at bay Better than the 2 stroke oil.
Boyd Young MkIII
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
John Hauck wrote:
>
> Decided to take a look at the Rotax Two Stroke Installation Manual before I
> fired this response back to the Kolb List.
>
> Sure enough, on page 15-1, it states the maxium length of the pulse line is
> 20". I made a mistake. Pays to look in the book, even though I have always
> cut my pulse lines much shorter than 20".
>
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
There you go, so much for "I don't need to verify the spec" right? That's what
it says in my inst. manual as well.....
Shorter than that isn't a mistake and actually stlll improves the actuation of
the pump.
FWIW, back in TX I knew a fellow who had a 447 in a Starlight. the recommended
location of the fuel pump was on the firewall behind the engine, resulting in
a pulse line length of more than 2'. I don't think he ever had a safe flight in
the plane the whole time he flew it and had engine bogging virtually every time
he went up.
The Kolb recommended installation for the FS II I had was well within this specification.
I never had trouble with mine as a result.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? |
So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at
best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp.
Boyd Young MkIII
Boyd Y/Gang:
For my 80 hp 912, 4 gph equaled 5800 rpm or about 75% power which is 60 hp.
Don't hold me to those figures. I did it in my 70 year old head.
I can see 95 hp with my 912S. It burns 5 gph at 5800 rpm which is 75% power
or 71 hp.
That is interesting. I am cruising with 11 more hp at 5800 rpm burning a
gallon more an hour and seeing only a few mph increase in cruise speed.
However, it is worth the extra fuel burn to have the extra power when I need
and want it.
john hauck
mkIII
titus, alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? |
Boyd,
912 UL engines are rated at 79 hp continuous at WOT and 5,500 RPM. A normal cruise
power setting of 75% x 79 hp = 59.25 HP. 59.25 hp x .42 = 24.88 lbs/hr. /
6 lbs/gal = 4.15 gph. At .42 BSFC 4 gph is about 72-73% power or about 57 HP.
At higher density altitudes it takes more RPM to get the same HP output compared
to lower density altitudes. If a 912UL engine is propped for WOT at 5,500 RPM
at around 8,000' density altitude, then WOT at that altitude will be producing
approximately 75% power, which is the maximum power available in a normally
aspirated engine at that density altitude.
I normally cruise my Slingshot at 80 mph TAS and at that airspeed in the 2,000'-
4,000' density altitudes in which I fly mostly during the summer, I burn roughly
3.8 gph. If the Jabiru has a BSFC of .42 (as advertised), then my typical
flight is at 67-68% power.
3.8 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 = 54.28 HP which is about 67-68% of 80 HP which is the
max continuous rated HP for this engine at 3,300 RPM. FWIW, my typical cruise
speed is a little over 2,700 RPM.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently
to reason incorrectly.
- Michel de Montaigne
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? |
Ooops. Forgot to mention.
Our engines are rated at max power at sea level at standard conditions. i.E. 59F
at 29.92" Hg. The loss of power as density altitude increases is a little over
3% per thousand feet of density altitude.
-25% / 8(thousand) = -3.125% per thousand feet of DA.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently
to reason incorrectly.
- Michel de Montaigne
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with one? |
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp
2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp
--------
Thom Riddle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at
best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Lets say 53.57 for the average.
Add 7000 ft of altitude with a loss of 4.25 % per thousand. For a loss of
29.75 %. leaving at altitude 37.63 hp at cruse. Don't sound right. Or
is the 4.25 % per thousand wrong? I have had my mkIII912 to 13,000 and
using the same numbers the loss is 55.25% leaving only 29.6 hp are these
numbers essentially correct or am I missing something?
Boyd Young MkIII
Sorry I didn't proof read, 29.6 is the loss form the average 53.57 hp
leaving 23.97 hp at 13000 ft. anyway it still don't sound right, maybe the
4.25 % per thousand is wrong. Or is it 4.25 for the first thousand from
sea level and the percent drops as altitude increases?
Boyd
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| Subject: | Re: Matco brake fluid specs |
Matco's paperwork says " this assembly requires mil-h-5606 red aircraft
fluid"
Boyd Young Mkiii
Boyd Y/Gang:
That spec has not been out for too long. Reckon MATCO changed because of
different seals or because of the Sport Pilot thing and certified aircraft?
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Matco brake fluid specs |
Thanks, John.
Would we have to flush out the brake fluid that's in the system, or are they
compatible?
David W/Gang:
I don't know.
I've been using the same quart of Walmart ATF since my first brakes on my FS
in 1989.
However, the system only uses a few ounces. If it was mine, I'd pump the
fluid out of the reservoirs and master cylinders through the calipers. Then
fill and bleed the opposite direction. Master cylinders should blow it
right out of there.
I don't know if that is the correct procedure or not, but it works for me.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Recommendations for Storing a 447 |
The fogging oil will
coat all the innards to keep the rust at bay Better than the 2 stroke oil.
Boyd Young MkIII
Boyd Y/Gang:
Two stroke oil is loaded with solvents.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Monument Valley 2010 |
Kolb Listers:
Who would have ever thought we would be looking forward to MV 2010, as we
made our way to the first one, MV 2003.
We have all been so fortunate to have been able to enjoy MV every year since
2003. I remember one post by a long forgotten member of the Kolb List who
referred to the MV attendees as, "the MV clique". He could never have been
so far wrong in his observation. I can assure you, those of us that made
the first one, those of us that have made every one since then, and those
that have attended only one MV flyin, there is a special bond among us.
Something special. If that is a clique, so be it.
Most of the folks that make the MV flyin, I would never have had the
opportunity to meet otherwise. All these Kolb people are special to me.
Where else can one go, spend the weekend, enjoy one of the most beautiful
places in the world, spend quality time with people you met on the Kolb
List, live, talk, and breath, Kolb airplanes.
We have no duties, responsibilities, dues or fees. Only plans are to set
the date, and that has been done:
21-23 May 2010.
Everyone is welcome to our flyin no matter what you fly, if you fly, have an
airplane or not, only have the desire, or how you arrive.
Three months from today is the day.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with |
one?
12 hp per gallon per hour.... pretty good liars formula...Pretty
accurate estimation...Herb
At 11:00 AM 2/21/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .48 bsfc = 25 hp
>2 gph x 6 lbs/gal / .42 bsfc = 28.57 hp
>
>--------
>Thom Riddle
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>So using these numbers the rotax 912ul burning 4 gph is only producing at
>best case 57.14 hp and worst case 50 hp. Lets say 53.57 for the average.
>Add 7000 ft of altitude with a loss of 4.25 % per thousand. For a loss of
>29.75 %. leaving at altitude 37.63 hp at cruse. Don't sound right. Or
>is the 4.25 % per thousand wrong? I have had my mkIII912 to 13,000 and
>using the same numbers the loss is 55.25% leaving only 29.6 hp are these
>numbers essentially correct or am I missing something?
>
>Boyd Young MkIII
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>02/21/10 07:34:00
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| Subject: | Re: Matco brake fluid specs |
We had a small amt that steve gave us w/ the plane. Was worried it wouldn't be
enough, but it was. Pumped it from an oil can at the bleeder and watched the bubble
run! Very satisfying.
Thanks,
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287540#287540
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
John, Kolb List;
As usual, I won't be flying there this year, just can't take off the required time
from work and have a job when I get back.
Flying to the Annual Unplanned/Unorganized MV Kolb Fly-in is something I one day
hope to mark off my list, and if the rest of those who pull it off are similar
to the five people I have met who have done it, I would be in good company.
I would have full confidence in my Firestar making the trip.
On another note, I got to fly a couple of hours Saturday, & took a quick video.
I get kinda bored watching flight videos after much more than a minute or two,
so I edited this one down to about that range.
The air was very smooth above 1500'. There was a stout ESE wind blowing, but zero
thermal activity. I'm burning straight avgas, and if you notice the EGT's are
around 1275, CHT's around 310. When I burn premium auto gas, my EGT's run 60-70
degrees higher, CHT's only slightly higher. It was great to get up, looking
forward to more spring-time flying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQNnV-zTmI
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287553#287553
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
Jimmy,
What is your altitude? What size jets are you running? I am asking
because with the stock jets at 4000 feet my EGT's never got any higher
than 1150. I put in the HAC from Jerry O and that raised my EGT's to
1200 or so even when it is shut off. I am wondering because I may not be
able to operate at sea level with this set up. A main jet change may be
necessary. Better to know now than when I get there.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmy Young
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2010
John, Kolb List;
As usual, I won't be flying there this year, just can't take off the
required time from work and have a job when I get back.
Flying to the Annual Unplanned/Unorganized MV Kolb Fly-in is something
I one day hope to mark off my list, and if the rest of those who pull it
off are similar to the five people I have met who have done it, I would
be in good company. I would have full confidence in my Firestar making
the trip.
On another note, I got to fly a couple of hours Saturday, & took a
quick video. I get kinda bored watching flight videos after much more
than a minute or two, so I edited this one down to about that range.
The air was very smooth above 1500'. There was a stout ESE wind
blowing, but zero thermal activity. I'm burning straight avgas, and if
you notice the EGT's are around 1275, CHT's around 310. When I burn
premium auto gas, my EGT's run 60-70 degrees higher, CHT's only slightly
higher. It was great to get up, looking forward to more spring-time
flying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQNnV-zTmI
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287553#287553
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02/21/10 19:34:00
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
Sorry, should have changed the thread. :-/
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Cottrell
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2010
Jimmy,
What is your altitude? What size jets are you running? I am asking
because with the stock jets at 4000 feet my EGT's never got any higher
than 1150. I put in the HAC from Jerry O and that raised my EGT's to
1200 or so even when it is shut off. I am wondering because I may not be
able to operate at sea level with this set up. A main jet change may be
necessary. Better to know now than when I get there.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmy Young
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:39 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Monument Valley 2010
John, Kolb List;
As usual, I won't be flying there this year, just can't take off the
required time from work and have a job when I get back.
Flying to the Annual Unplanned/Unorganized MV Kolb Fly-in is
something I one day hope to mark off my list, and if the rest of those
who pull it off are similar to the five people I have met who have done
it, I would be in good company. I would have full confidence in my
Firestar making the trip.
On another note, I got to fly a couple of hours Saturday, & took a
quick video. I get kinda bored watching flight videos after much more
than a minute or two, so I edited this one down to about that range.
The air was very smooth above 1500'. There was a stout ESE wind
blowing, but zero thermal activity. I'm burning straight avgas, and if
you notice the EGT's are around 1275, CHT's around 310. When I burn
premium auto gas, my EGT's run 60-70 degrees higher, CHT's only slightly
higher. It was great to get up, looking forward to more spring-time
flying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQNnV-zTmI
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287553#287553
http://www.matronicp; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
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02/21/10 19:34:00
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02/21/10 19:34:00
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
At 05:14 PM 2/20/2010, Bob Kravis wrote:
>The new FF has a GRT 2002 EIS with altitude sensor. Hal said it is
>sweet. I looked at Grand Rapids website and saw that they offer a fuel
>pressure sensor. As I have read in the postings, many of the engine outs
>are due to fuel starvation. There is a testimonial on their website (see
><http://www.grtavionics.com/blog.aspx>Flying Impressions) about an RV
>owner who turned back when he got a low fuel pressure warning after
>takeoff. That got me thinking about adding one. What does the group
>think about that idea?
I have a simple mechanical pressure gauge on my plane. Never had a problem
with the pump, but it's nice to glance at it from time to time and see that
it's in the normal range (3-5 psi). It's also a check on the float needle;
if the pressure holds for awhile after shutting down the engine your
needle/seat are still good.
-Dana
--
Always keep clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
At 10:23 AM 2/21/2010, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on the
>Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a
>pulse line...
I always assumed the #1 cause of fuel starvation events was too much air in
the fuel tank... :)
-Dana
--
Always keep clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Valley Engineering Big-Twin - Any one flying with |
one?
At 07:59 AM 2/21/2010, Thom Riddle wrote:
>
>The early FS w/ 377 I once owned, had plenty of climb performance.
>
>One way to guestimate the actual horsepower being delivered from a
>4-stroke engine is by knowing the actual fuel consumption rate of the
>engine under power. Most 4-stroke engines burn in the range of .42 - .48
>pounds of gasoline per hour...
Another way to calculate the actual thrust horsepower (including any
propeller efficiency loss, which is significant) is to measure the power
off rate of sink, and the full power rate of climb, t the same
airspeed. Add these two rates together, divide by 60 (to convert
feet/minute into feet/second), multiply by the aircraft weight, and divide
by 550. The result is the actual THP your engine/prop combination is
producing. The actual engine shaft horsepower is probably around 50% more
than that, assuming about 66% prop efficiency.
-Dana
--
Always keep clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
Dana:
Please give credit to the individual that wrote the post.
I did not write it, and don't want to be associated with it.
Sounds like something Lucien would generate.
" Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events on
the
Rotax 2-strokes that use the pneumatic fuel pumps, tho, is too long of a
pulse line..."
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
I always assumed the #1 cause of fuel starvation events was too much
air in the fuel tank... :)
-Dana
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: 447 fuel pressure sensor |
At 08:22 PM 2/21/2010, John Hauck wrote:
>Dana:
>
>Please give credit to the individual that wrote the post.
>
>I did not write it, and don't want to be associated with it.
>
>Sounds like something Lucien would generate.
>
>" Besides that, the #1 cause bar none other of fuel starvation events..."
Sorry, my mistake. It was indeed Lucien's statement; I clicked "reply" to
the wrong message. In your message it wasn't automatically marked as
quoted text, so I misread it.
-Dana
--
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
John -I couldn't agree with you more. I've been to two of the MV fly-ins, a
nd both times they were unparalleled experiences - not just the glorious fl
ying, but the glorious people. Friendly, helpful, just great to be around.
I don't fly a Kolb, yet no one cared at all. I'm really looking forward to
being there in 3 months.-
Arty TrostSandy, OregonMaxair Drifter-
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm
=0A
=0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
=0A Helen Keller
=0A
=0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
--- On Sun, 2/21/10, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Monument Valley 2010
Kolb Listers:
Who would have ever thought we would be looking forward to MV 2010, as we
made our way to the first one, MV 2003.
We have all been so fortunate to have been able to enjoy MV every year sinc
e
2003.- I remember one post by a long forgotten member of the Kolb List wh
o
referred to the MV attendees as, "the MV clique".- He could never have be
en
so far wrong in his observation.- I can assure you, those of us that made
the first one, those of us that have made every one since then, and those
that have attended only one MV flyin, there is a special bond among us.
Something special.- If that is a clique, so be it.
Most of the folks that make the MV flyin, I would never have had the
opportunity to meet otherwise.- All these Kolb people are special to me.
Where else can one go, spend the weekend, enjoy one of the most beautiful
places in the world, spend quality time with people you met on the Kolb
List, live, talk, and breath, Kolb airplanes.
We have no duties, responsibilities, dues or fees.- Only plans are to set
the date, and that has been done:
21-23 May 2010.
Everyone is welcome to our flyin no matter what you fly, if you fly, have a
n
airplane or not, only have the desire, or how you arrive.
Three months from today is the day.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
le, List Admin.
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Monument Valley 2010 |
Wish it wasn't so far away. Beautiful area though. Was there in 99 on my motorcycle.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287582#287582
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