---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/23/10: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:59 AM - Re: Sun & Fun (Watkinsdw) 2. 03:02 AM - Re: Sun & Fun (Watkinsdw) 3. 04:10 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Dana Hague) 4. 04:10 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Dana Hague) 5. 05:29 AM - Re: Firefly full enclosure (Richard Pike) 6. 05:42 AM - Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (frank.goodnight) 7. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Firefly full enclosure (Bob Kravis) 8. 05:43 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Richard Pike) 9. 05:51 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Eugene Zimmerman) 10. 05:53 AM - Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (John Hauck) 11. 06:10 AM - Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (Mike Welch) 12. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (John Hauck) 13. 06:31 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Mike Welch) 14. 06:44 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Mike Welch) 15. 07:11 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (John Hauck) 16. 07:22 AM - Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (Jack Carillon) 17. 07:32 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (b young) 18. 12:27 PM - Re: Gulp. I'm forsaking my Drifter. (ropermike) 19. 02:43 PM - Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (Eugene Zimmerman) 20. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (Herb) 21. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (robert bean) 22. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness (Eugene Zimmerman) 23. 07:45 PM - Re: Sun & Fun (Kip) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:26 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun & Fun From: "Watkinsdw" We will probably drive up Thursday nite and stay in Tampa w/ friends, arrive Friday AM. Hope you don't get bored early! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287770#287770 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:09 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun & Fun From: "Watkinsdw" Oops, sorry about that. Pushed the wrong button. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287771#287771 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:18 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam At 10:44 PM 2/22/2010, John Hauck wrote: > >Hi Folks: > >Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise >insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for >it, but now I do. John, E-A-R is one manufacturer. McMaster-Carr sells many of their products. -Dana -- America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:18 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam At 10:44 PM 2/22/2010, John Hauck wrote: > >Hi Folks: > >Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise >insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for >it, but now I do. John, E-A-R is one manufacturer. McMaster-Carr sells many of their products. -Dana -- America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:43 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly full enclosure From: "Richard Pike" There is a picture of the FSII one piece windshield and rear latch mechanism here: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Latch.html Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287780#287780 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:28 AM PST US From: "frank.goodnight" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness Hi Jason, If will call Travis at Kolb He can tell you everything you need to know , He helped me when I had to get the CM tubes heat treated for my firestar gear legs. Great folks at TNK can't say enough good things about them. Frank Goodnight Firestar 2 HKS Brownsville , TX On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > Jason & kolb gang > > I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. > The last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to > in New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their > oven. I've checked with five different metal treating outfits and > they all gave me the same answer. They must all be using the same > heat treating equipment. > > Gene Z > > > On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives >> me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. >> >> My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater >> at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the >> successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will >> not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much >> different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes. >> >> I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties >> for different rockwell c hardnesses. >> >> Regards >> Jason >> MKIII >> Portland Oregon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly full enclosure From: Bob Kravis Richard, Thanks for the link. I had never seen your site. There's a lot of information there and I look forward to reading every bit of it. Bob On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Richard Pike wrote: > > There is a picture of the FSII one piece windshield and rear latch > mechanism here: > http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/Latch.html > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287780#287780 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:38 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam From: "Richard Pike" John, I found that regular automotive headliner material helps a lot, there is a local fabric and sewing shop that has a half dozen different colors in stock. It has foam on the back, and that generic headliner fabric on the facing side, put it on with spray upholstery contact adhesive. Don't know if it is as effective as dedicated sound dampening foam, but it is readily available, looks real good, light weight and fairly easy to work with. One layer would stop the aluminum from vibrating, I suppose you could use two layers to get that Lexus-quiet ride... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287783#287783 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:20 AM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam John, Try http://www.mcmaster.com/#sound-absorbers/=5xxn8t Gene On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:44 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > Hi Folks: > > Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise > insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a > requirement for > it, but now I do. > > After rebuilding the mkIII center section with sheet metal and not > lexan, I > am now flying in a true snare drum. Blamed it on my radio, my > hearing, and > anyone else that was standing around, when I realized I had created > a drum. > The 10.5 hour flight day returning from Homer Kolb's funeral almost > killed > me. Not only was I deaf as a door knob, but the noise had beat the > crap out > of me and I was worn out well before I saw Gantt IAP and home. > > Need to get some and get the noise killed before I start serious > flying in > April. > > Thanks, > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:28 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. Gene Z Gene/Gang: Check out a local truck spring company. Find out where they get their springs done. Might be able to get a lead on a heat treater for over 36". john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:53 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness > Jason & kolb gang > > I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. > > Gene Z Gene=2C Did you give those folks a call at Industrial Heat Treat in Salt Lake Cit y? They did mine=2C and the 36-37" length didn't seem to be a problem. Mike Welch I'll measure my gear legs the best I can=2C since they are installed=2C but I can't see why they can do mine=2C and not yours. I'll get back to you.. ...... _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:59 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam Thanks to everyone that responded to my request for Noise Insulating Foam. I have to get some relief. Not only is the noise overpowering me, but is interferring with my radio transmissions. I've got some foam rubber to seal the front of the tailboom. I think that is a noise source also, plus a draft. john hauck mkIII Tutus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:38 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam > Hi Folks: > > Recently=2C someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise > insulating self-adhesive foam.> > john hauck > mkIII > Titus=2C Alabama Hey John=2C everyone=2C A couple of years ago I bought some insultation from America's greatest a uto parts vender......J.C. Whitney. (the greatest part was a joke=2C guys) I still haven't installed it. I bought for the firewall on the GlaStar I was building. IIRC=2C it's got adhesive on one side=2C and something reall y shiny on the other=2C like aluminum foil. The insulation stuff looks lik e a horse blanket (I think...I haven't looked it over for a couple of year s) I'm headed out to my shop in a few minutes=2C I'll find it and get a be tter look. The stuff I have is that shiny insulation they spread all over the interi or of a car=2C prior to carpet and door panel reinstallation. Mike Welch spring looks like it's around the corner here in central Missouri MkIII BTW=2C I've been meaning to ask about Gantt IAP. I can't seem to find it. Is that your personal airport facility? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:58 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam John=2C I just ran out and checked on my JCW insultion. The shiny part and the h orse blanket part is correct=2C but there isn't any adhesive on one side. Evidently=2C if someone wants this stuff to stay in place=2C they have to g et some of that 3M spray adhesive. If you didn't mind a silvery look=2C this stuff may be what you want. It feels like a good product=2C and I'm certain it would absolutely deaden a lot of the noise. Let me know=2C and I'll mail you a chunk of it to inspect. (it's about 1 /4" thick) Gene=2C I also measured (the best I could) my gear leg's length. It's awful hard to tell where the top end is=2C since it's inside the mounting tube=2C but it is really close to 36-38". Mike Welch _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:37 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam Mike W/Gang: I have found a good source of skinned polyurethane, adhesive on one side. Probably go with that. Gantt IAP is my 750 foot airstrip located on the Gantt Farm, 3 miles by road from my house. It is located in a cow pasture and I have been flying out of it for 26 years. I have two hangers. For the first time in 26 years, I have no cows or cow manure mining my airstrip. That won't last long though. New cattleman is heading this way with his cows this Spring. The strip is not registered. I saw no need to get involved with the bureaucracy and red tape of the Federal Government. I made my first solo fixed wing flight out of this strip when it was 650 feet long, in 1984, with no fixed wing training, other than what I could learn from a stack of stick and rudder books I got at the US Air Force Air University Library, Maxwell AFB, Alabama. Being an Army helicopter pilot helped tremendously, but did not cover all the bases. Took two take offs and landings to get it right. I screwed up my first landing in an airplane. All other phases of fixed wing flight, I had no problem with. My biggest fear as a rotary wing pilot only was stall speed. This was something I had never dealt with until the day I decided to fly my brand new Ultrastar. Do not recommend this type flight training procedure for anyone. A nice 3,000 foot airport would have been much safer. I have built three Kolbs. All made their initial flights out of Gantt IAP. Gantt is truly an international airport. Every international flight I have made was initiated here. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama The stuff I have is that shiny insulation they spread all over the interior of a car, prior to carpet and door panel reinstallation. Mike Welch spring looks like it's around the corner here in central Missouri MkIII BTW, I've been meaning to ask about Gantt IAP. I can't seem to find it. Is that your personal airport facility? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:16 AM PST US From: Jack Carillon Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > Jason & kolb gang > > I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. > The last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to in > New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their oven. > I've checked with five different metal treating outfits and they all > gave me the same answer. They must all be using the same heat treating > equipment. > > Gene Z > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > >> >> Hello all, >> >> I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me >> the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses. >> >> My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at >> RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful >> gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on >> hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on >> the rockwell c scale makes. >> >> I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for >> different rockwell c hardnesses. >> >> Regards >> Jason >> MKIII >> Portland Oregon >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Gene, Are you telling them these are landing gear legs for a aircraft. Maybe their oven gets smaller due to liability. JacK C. FSII Ohio ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:22 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Noise Insulating Foam Hi Folks: Recently, someone posted the name and a source for some thin noise insulating self-adhesive foam. At the time, I did not see a requirement for it, but now I do. john hauck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John and the group I had found some material that I was going to do some more checking on. It is called "floor muffler" it is a sound and moisture control underlayment manufactured by diversified foam products, inc. 1 800 440 6008 WWW.flooringunderlayments.com It is .07 inches thick. Where I found it was at a place that sells hardwood floors. They had a sample of this and some other underlayments mounted on some plywood, then had a sample of hardwood floor mounted on top. They had a golf ball that could be used as a striking device and when hit the noise was maybe 1/4 as loud as compared to the other underlayment in the same display. I know we are not talking apples to apples but the material is extremely light weight, and would have to be mounted with some type of spray on adhesive or contact cement. Good luck Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:08 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Gulp. I'm forsaking my Drifter. From: "ropermike" I took an hour of instruction in this wonderful machine before I bought my Mkll. I loved the open flying! The plane was in Baton Rouge, LA but I cant remember the fellas name. Ive often thought about finding another Mkll and configuring it this way. -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287870#287870 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pb120047_956.jpg ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:44 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness From: "Eugene Zimmerman" Kolb friends, Whoopee! I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes from my house. They said it would be a 2 to 3 day turnaround. They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no freight and no wait. I want to thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to help me find a heat treater. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:00 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness Wouldn't you know it.... I was shopping at my favorite place today and found a heat treat furnace...It was discarded from a trade school....Electric...and lined with fire brick.. so...there is a likely a furnace in many trade schools around the country.. This one came from one of the state of Tenn trade schools... and could be bought for about 15 cents a pound.... My favorite "trickle down" shopping place is the local salvage yard..:-) But I still get my rib reinforcing tape at a sewing shop.. :-) Herb At 04:42 PM 2/23/2010, you wrote: > >Kolb friends, > >Whoopee! >I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal >Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes >from my house. > >They said it would be a 2 to 3 day turnaround. >They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no >freight and no wait. > >I want to thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to >help me find a heat treater. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887 > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >02/23/10 07:34:00 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness From: robert bean Eugene Z landing this coming summer: boing boing boing . ahh now I got it! BB do not archive On 23, Feb 2010, at 5:42 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > > Kolb friends, > > Whoopee! > I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes from my house. > > They said it would be a 2 to 3 day turnaround. > They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no freight and no wait. > > I want to thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to help me find a heat treater. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:57 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness Bob, LOL "boing boing boing ." eh? Well, spring steel gear won't be nearly as springy as what I have now. The only reason I'm changing to steel is because FIBERGLASS is not torsionally stiff enough to maintain precise wheel alignment. This makes for some really squirrelly ground roll at times. Been using fiberglass for years but the time has come for me for something more tame and docile. Hate to add the extra weight of steel however. Gene Z On Feb 23, 2010, at 6:17 PM, robert bean wrote: > > Eugene Z landing this coming summer: boing boing boing . ahh now > I got it! > BB > do not archive > > On 23, Feb 2010, at 5:42 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > >> >> >> Kolb friends, >> >> Whoopee! >> I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal >> Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes >> from my house. >> >> They said it would be a 2 to 3 day turnaround. >> They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no >> freight and no wait. >> >> I want to thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to >> help me find a heat treater. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:27 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sun & Fun From: "Kip" Hope to see you guys there.... :D Kip -------- 2000 Firestar II R503 DCDI VLS 750 2010 Waiex Jabiru 3300 1980 Quickie 1 Electric? Needs restoration! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287923#287923 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.