Kolb-List Digest Archive

Thu 02/25/10


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:11 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Thom Riddle)
     2. 07:22 AM - Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question (b young)
     3. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (John Hauck)
     4. 08:56 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Thom Riddle)
     5. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Jack B. Hart)
     6. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (John Hauck)
     7. 09:48 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Thom Riddle)
     8. 10:02 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Thom Riddle)
     9. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Mike Welch)
    10. 12:55 PM - Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN)
    11. 01:47 PM - Modified wing tip shape (Richard Pike)
    12. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (zeprep251@aol.com)
    13. 03:50 PM - Re: Modified wing tip shape (Dana Hague)
    14. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (John Hauck)
    15. 03:54 PM - Re: Modified wing tip shape (william sullivan)
    16. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Tom Longo)
    17. 07:20 PM - Re: Modified wing tip shape (Richard Pike)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:11:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Here is another source of soundproofing products. http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing I've not tried any of these. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288125#288125


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:22:26 AM PST US
    From: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
    Subject: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
    I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did with his). Before I cover the cage, I was wondering if I should install a shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc. For those of you who store stuff in this area, what do you do? I know wt&bal can be an issue, so I don't plan on putting anything too heavy back there. Mark Rinehart Indy MarkIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. No shelf, that is extra weight, and I put sleeping bags and the like in the back. On a solo cross country I put one bag on the floor in the passenger side. And the rest on top of my fuel tank. The bag on the floor counterbalances anything put in the back, and my fuel tank is at cg when solo, so bags in that area make no change. When x country with 2, everything in the back, under seats, where ever I can stuff it. With 2 on board, I am further forward on the cg than I would like. Boyd Young MkIII


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:36:53 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    Here is another source of soundproofing products. http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing I've not tried any of these. -------- Thom Riddle Thanks, Thom R: I like this one, RoadBlockR: http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being bombarded with. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:56:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    I think I'll be ordering some of this RoadBlocker too. I didn't see that particular style until you pointed it out, John. I'll probably put some overhead permanently and a removable piece between the back seat and aft fuselage area. Might even add some to the fabric in the aft fuselage area. At 1/2 lb per sqft, the wt penalty is minimal. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288163#288163


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:19:45 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    At 10:35 AM 2/25/10 -0600, you wrote: > >I like this one, RoadBlockR: > >http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > John, Still seems expensive and heavy. Standard house extruded foam insulation weighs only about 0.1 pound per square foot per inch thickness. Might be worth a try. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:48:26 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    Still seems expensive and heavy. Standard house extruded foam insulation weighs only about 0.1 pound per square foot per inch thickness. Might be worth a try. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack H/Gang: I went down to the big city of Wetumpka, AL, last night to check out what they had at Lowes. Problem with this stuff is the fire hazard and the noxious fumes created by fire, which would be deadly in some crashes. Based on my flying style and geographic hazards where I fly, I don't mind spending more for a product, even though there is a weight penalty involved, if it won't kill me if I crash and burn. Primarily, I want to kill some of the noise, and do it safely. There is another problem with spilled fuel when refueling. My fuel filler is on the top left rear half of the center section. I haven't checked but spilled fuel would probably melt the foam insulation. Thanks for your input. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:48:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    I'm not a sound engineer but seem to recall reading that unlike thermal insulation, the density of the acoustic barrier material is an important factor in reducing dbl levels. If this is the case, then the lightest material may not do the job. I've been researching this since this subject came up but have not found any definitive information on it. Since Will Uribe works in this area, maybe if he is monitoring this thread he might be able to add something useful for our mutual benefit. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288180#288180


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:02:28 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    I found the following site to be helpful in explaining this subject, including the sound barrier ratings. This site also sells the RoadBlockeR and other acoustic materials. http://www.soundproofcow.com/how-we-test-sound-blocking-products.html -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288183#288183


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:35:08 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    John H.=2C Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? I bought one of thos e Headsets=2C Inc. kits that you install yourself. I bought it from them a t the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow. I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 . Results=3B for me=2C mixed. My hearing is bad. Damn near gone=2C I thi nk. Severe tinnitus=2C too. When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones=2C I'd say the background noise reduction is better=2C but definitely not gone. I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method=2C if you have experience with one. Thanks=2C Mike Welch > From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam > Date: Thu=2C 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600 > > > > Here is another source of soundproofing products. > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofin g > > I've not tried any of these. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > > > > > Thanks=2C Thom R: > > I like this one=2C RoadBlockR: > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > > It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will > easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. > > Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need a nd > order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being > bombarded with. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus=2C Alabama > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:55:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Mk3 Baggage Area Question
    From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
    Mark Rinehart asked: << I modified my Mk3 fuselage cage to add an 12"x12" access door on the horizontal deck behind the seats (very similar to what Steve Green did with his)... I was wondering if I should install a shelf in this area for storing baggage/camping equip/etc ... what do you do? >> Hi, Mark - I did the same thing for my Mark-III. You apparently came to the same conclusion at I, noting that the space behind the fuel tanks is a useful storage volume - why cover it over? With lightness in mind, I did not use a "shelf" per se, but rather, a sling made from fishing net. Because of the center fore-aft tube in that location, my fishing net cargo sling is actually two compartments - a left and a right side, with the net attached along all 4 sides. The single piece of net rides over the center tube, and each sling compartment is about 14 inches deep. For the top, I fabricated a vinyl cover that velcros down at the edges. It is firmly attached down the center, so it cannot come loose and go into the prop. See picture - hope this helps . Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul Sandia Park, NM


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:47:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Modified wing tip shape
    From: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
    Hey Jack B. Hart, last year on Aug 26, you posted a link to an interesting study on wing tip shapes. http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1923/naca-report-140.pdf It made sense, would be as easy to make as the regular tip, and if it didn't work, probably would'nt hurt. The other link you posted was along the same line, even more interesting, but has since been taken down. Ed liked the idea, the rebuild process is still coming along, and here is the first tip. Not as radical as what the link said was ideal, but didn't require any major mods either. Just so you'll know somebody out here is paying attention... Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) PS: No, the trailing edge is not curved, that is the wide angle lens effect. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288208#288208 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fsiiwing_large_688.jpg


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:50:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Mike, I also added the headsets inc kits to my H-10-30 DC 's.I have a lot of foa m added to the aircraft but the kits REALLY improved my DC's G.AmanMK-3C jabiru 2200A generating 2800 decibels @ cruise.Well maybe no t that much, but a lot anyway -----Original Message----- From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 3:32 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam John H., Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? I bought one of tho se Headsets, Inc. kits that you install yourself. I bought it from them at the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow. I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 . Results; for me, mixed. My hearing is bad. Damn near gone, I think. Severe tinnitus, too. When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones, I'd say the background noise reduction is better, but definitely not gone. I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method, if you have experience with one. Thanks, Mike Welch > From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600 > > > > Here is another source of soundproofing products. > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofi ng > > I've not tried any of these. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > > > > > Thanks, Thom R: > > I like this one, RoadBlockR: > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > > It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will > easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. > > Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and > order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being > bombarded with. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > >==================== > _========= > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Fr_new'>Sign up now. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:50:31 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Modified wing tip shape
    At 04:47 PM 2/25/2010, Richard Pike wrote: >Hey Jack B. Hart, last year on Aug 26, you posted a link to an interesting >study on wing tip shapes. >http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1923/naca-report-140.pdf >It made sense, would be as easy to make as the regular tip, and if it >didn't work, probably would'nt hurt. The other link you posted was along >the same line, even more interesting, but has since been taken down. > >Ed liked the idea, the rebuild process is still coming along, and here is >the first tip. Not as radical as what the link said was ideal, but didn't >require any major mods either. > >Just so you'll know somebody out here is paying attention... I'm doing the same thing, with a 20=B0 rake, for my biplane project: <http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/attachments/light-stuff-area/6002d 1267057084-tip-ribs-wingtip.jpg> -Dana do not archive -- Arrest rate for Washington DC police officers: 19 per 1000 Arrest rate for New York City police officers: 3 per 1000 Arrest rate for Florida concealed handgun permit holders: 0.9 per 1000


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:52:34 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    I fly with a DRE6000 ANR headset. It worked great before the center section rebuild, actually allowed me to be able to hear well enough to fly with my radio. Since rebuilding the center section with sheet metal, I am getting more noise than the radio, ANR, and I can handle well. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama ----- Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? Thanks, Mike Welch


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:54:58 PM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Modified wing tip shape
    Richard- Did you lengthen the trailing edge, shorten the leading edge, or b oth?- What about the flaps and ailerons? - ------------------------- ------------------ Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------ Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -------------------FS 447 ------------------------- ------------------ 39 degrees and raini ng - ------------------------- -------------------------


    Message 16


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    Time: 04:55:41 PM PST US
    From: "Tom Longo" <tclongo@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Noise Insulating Foam
    Hi Mike, I have installed one of these in my David Clark 10-20 headset and it works great. I compared it with my Bose X and have sold the Bose and use the David Clark now. It only works good on the low frequency range like you get from a direct drive motor that runs in the 2k to 3k plus range. Did not work that good in my MK III with 582 but works great in a Cessna or Piper. Hope this helps. Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Welch Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam John H., Do you have an electronic noise-cancelling headset? I bought one of those Headsets, Inc. kits that you install yourself. I bought it from them at the 2008 Oshkosh Airshow. I finally got around to soldering it in to my David Clark 13.4 . Results; for me, mixed. My hearing is bad. Damn near gone, I think. Severe tinnitus, too. When I turn on the noise-cancelling function on my headphones, I'd say the background noise reduction is better, but definitely not gone. I was just wondering how much improvement I could expect from this method, if you have experience with one. Thanks, Mike Welch > From: jhauck@elmore.rr.com > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Noise Insulating Foam > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:04 -0600 > > > > Here is another source of soundproofing products. > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/soundproofing.html?page_type=Soundproofing > > I've not tried any of these. > > -------- > Thom Riddle > > > Thanks, Thom R: > > I like this one, RoadBlockR: > > http://www.soundprooffoam.com/automotive-sound-dampening.html > > It was originally designed for aircraft and heavy trucks. My mkIII will > easily compete with these two for producing loud noise. > > Price seems within reach. All I need to do is determine how much I need and > order it. Would be nice to knock out some of the racket I am being > bombarded with. > > john hauck > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > >==================== > _========= > > _____ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Fr_new'>Sign up now.


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:20:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Modified wing tip shape
    From: "Richard Pike" <richard@bcchapel.org>
    [quote="williamtsullivan(at)att.n"]Richard- Did you lengthen the trailing edge, shorten the leading edge, or both? What about the flaps and ailerons? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 39 degrees and raining > [b] Cut 1.75" off the leading edge where it stuck out past the last rib, the trailing edge is stock, not going to modify the ailerons. FSII=no flaps. This was a donor wing that only needs a little work, bought a basket case in Florida for parts. Tomorrow will be pulling out the steel root rib, it has some rust on it, need to make sure it is not rusty where it slips inside the trailing edge. Ed's original left wing ought to be in pretty good shape, the crash got the tip and a little bit of the trailing edge, will probably pull the cover off next week and get started on it. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288247#288247




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